At some point during the conversation, the topic of the pressure of being BLACKPINK comes up. There’s a short silence on the other end of the call. Starkly different from the effervescent laughs until then, it’s pregnant with introspection as the four members of BLACKPINK—Lisa, Jennie, Jisoo and Rosé—think about the title that’s most often associated with their name: "The Biggest Girl Group In The World."

It isn't hyperbole, either. A look at the numbers is enough to prove that. Within 24 hours of its release earlier in June, the first pre-release single from The Album, "How You Like That," broke five Guinness World Records. With 86.3 million views in that time, it became the most viewed YouTube video and the most viewed music video in the world. "How You Like That" also debuted at No. 33 on the Billboard Hot 100, tying with Lady Gaga’s "Sour Candy"—a song the group featured on—making BLACKPINK the highest-ranking female Korean act at the time.

Earlier in 2019, the quartet became the first K-pop group to hit 1 billion views on Youtube with their single "Kill This Love." They followed it up with a sizzling performance of the single at Coachella, making history again as the first K-pop girl group to do so.

Along with the weight of the epithet, thus, the title encompasses a vast journey that the quartet has covered in just a fraction of the time it takes established acts—four years to be precise. So, excuse the members of BLACKPINK for taking a couple seconds to reflect, please.

"It's very surprising to us," Jennie says at last. "Every day we try to acknowledge how grateful we are, but more than the pressure, we are ready to give them back as much as they [their fans, BLINKs] gave us. It just gives us more motivation to go further than we ever dreamed of."

If you’ve been acquainted with the BLACKPINK ethos, you will have seen this coming. For the better part of four years, the members of BLACKPINK have stood tall on the backs of the self-assured, self-aware messages in their music. Whatever the challenge, the BLACKPINK way is to always go up. Now, as they get ready to reacquaint themselves with the world with their first full-length release, The Album, the same determination abounds.

"We tried to put more colors into our music, say black and pink," says Lisa. "I wish each member has a stronger presence on the stage and explores more various genres. I hope people don’t know what to expect from us, except for something better than before. We want to be unpredictable."

Ahead of the release of The Album, GRAMMY.com sat down with BLACKPINK to discuss their career, achievements, motivations and future.

This is going to be your first full-length album after your debut, so the hype is very real. What was the mood when you heard it was happening?

Rosé: At the very start, when they said that we were going to [be releasing] our first album, we were very stoked, because we do know that our fans have been waiting for this moment for a very, very long time. We were very excited but also nervous at the same time because we do know that it is a big deal. It's the first time we were able to put all of our colors into something. We had mixed feelings, but overall it was very positive vibes, and we were very stoked to be able to finally release the full album.

The Album is coming after almost four years of your debut, which is a long time. Why do you think that this is the right moment for it?

Rosé: We had four years to kind of build our own colors as BLACKPINK. Throughout the four years, we got to explore different genres and really find out our exact, distinct colors. So, I feel like [in] this album, we were able to put our prepared music style and contribute with new music genres that we're still exploring recently. [That's why] I think now is the best time to come out, because any later would be too late and any earlier, we might have been in a rush. We definitely feel like, right now, we are fully ready to put out a full completed album.

How do you think this album represents the kind of artists you are? How does it represent your colors?

Jennie: I think we've said this before, but our new album is full of surprises. We like to believe that it's something no one has tried before. We just want to bring something new. The album is cool, you know, and we tried to put together all the colors of BLACKPINK that we've built before into one.

You started this year with some amazing collaborations. What do you look for while working with other artists? Where is that middle ground between your style and their style?

Jennie: Since there are already four of us, we're very adjusted to working with people, so somebody new is always welcome. They bring a new perspective to the group, and it's an amazing experience. It's like stepping outside of our usual boundaries and into a world that we haven’t been to. To create something new with a great artist, like Lady Gaga and Dua [Lipa] and much more to come, it's just a great chance for us as artists and groups.

How was working on The Album different to working on your previous EPs? The Album is more cohesive, it's longer; there are more songs, more opportunities. What was that like?

Rosé: Definitely, because it's not like separate projects that we were working on. In the past, when we were working on individual projects, it was mainly all about that "one" song or that "one" concept that we were coming out with. But, because this was an album, we really had to think about the flow and the meaning behind this. I feel like this time around, we do have personal songs in there, something that tells our story, something that is fun.

And since our name is BLACKPINK, we represent the diversity in our personalities as individuals and as artists. So, we feel like we really had to put that forward and address that as well as we could.

You told me how the album went from concept to final form and how you showed your colors; are there any parts of the production process that you paid special attention to?

Rosé: I feel like we stayed in the studio for a while. We didn't want to just have a bunch of tracks and songs written for us and for us just go and record. We did spend a lot of time in the studio trying to find what we really wanted to sing about, what kind of music we wanted to put out. It took us a while to get together a list of good songs so we could get into recording mode. That's the really big process: just hanging out in the studio and making sure we have fun there so we can be honest.

Let's talk a little bit about your recent achievements. You've broken records that at one point a lot of people thought were unachievable, especially for Asian artists. You performed at Coachella, you’re the most followed K-pop act on YouTube, "How You Like That" broke so many records right after its release. In context of all that, the pressure of being BLACKPINK must be so intense.

Jennie: It's very surprising to us. All the records are the results of our fans, BLINKs, and their unconditional support. Every day we try to acknowledge how grateful we are, but more than the pressure, we are ready to give them back as much as they gave us. It just gives us more motivation to go further than we ever dreamed of.

There's always a line between the persona and the person, so how do you make sure that the expectations people have of you are realistic, that what is going on in your professional life is either a reflection of who you are or a separation from it?

Jisoo: We are grateful, as artists, as individuals, that people have such big expectations of us, and we are ready to take on the burden that comes with the expectations. We chose to do this: we try to send that message in our music, to show our confidence and the boldness to take on the challenge.

I feel like you’ve gone beyond the concept of a traditional girl group now. BLACKPINK is not just a name, it’s sort of become a force of nature where everybody knows who you are. With a position like that, there's always a danger of thinking: "I'm fine here. I'm good. This is comfortable." The position limits growth. How do you guys ensure that you always keep on reinventing?

Rosé: While we are very grateful for the amount of things that we have achieved and everything that follows this, we are just four girls who always really loved music and we just enjoyed performing. So [staying] creative is not too hard, because once we do one thing, we are always looking at the next thing, always dreaming of things that we have always wanted to do. But we definitely don't settle with what we have right now. We're all very greedy when it comes to. [Laughs.]

Jennie: We have each other to look and be inspired by. We let each other know what we're doing and where to head.

Lisa: We're like the same person.

Rosé: I think all of our members try to remind each other of how we're all just human. The hype, we try not to let it get to us. We don't really go: "Oh my god, we broke these many records or da di da..." We just look at each other and like…

Jisoo: We're just happy with how far we've come.

How do you think you've grown since your trainee days?

Rosé: We definitely have become a little more professional when it comes to this job, I guess? When we were trainees, we were only training for the music. This job is actually a job.

Jennie: There is much more stuff to care about than just music, but to carry ourselves as somebody to influence or [somebody to] look up to.

Lisa: We just enjoy every little step of it, and when we're off camera, we're pretty much like, still four girls.

Rosé: Teenage girls. [Laughs.]

Tell me how you're going to relax after the album comes out. Will there be a party, or a girls' night in?

Rosé: The crazy thing is right after our album releases, we're going to be promoting it and trying to get as much content out there for our fans. Definitely there will be a celebration at some point, but I still think we will be at working mode.

Jennie: But an excited working mode, since our fans have the album in their hand.

Lisa: [From the back] We're workaholics!

Rosé: And our biggest celebration is kind of like, staying at home in bed. Sleeping all day, so that's going to happen, hopefully.

A lot of your plans for promotion might have been thrown off course with COVID. How does this synergy with fans affect your performance? What are you expecting this time around?

Jisoo: Even though the opportunity for us to meet our fans in person has decreased, we're very grateful for social media at this point. I actually feel like since we do have social media we have more of a platform to connect with our fans on a bigger scale, so we're grateful for that at this point in time. We just hope to reach out to our fans and give them more hope through our music and content.

You guys are in a position where you are some of the people spearheading the modern K-pop expansion. Since your debut, we have seen K-pop grow so much. What kind of responsibility do you think you personally have towards its global expansion?

Rosé: It's amazing that K-pop is spreading around the world as a culture in itself. There are a lot of other K-pop artists out there who are trying to put out their music right now, and we are really grateful that we get to step in and be a part of that.

Jennie: Since we get such amazing opportunities and records because of the people that are interested in watching K-pop right now, we'd like to take the responsibility. We are fully committed to the work. We want to be proud when we look back on our history when we grow old.

[Rosé laughs.]

Jennie: We want to be proud of ourselves. I don't want to let ourselves down, so we put extra time, extra effort into every single thing we put out. I think that's why it takes a bit of time for us, but we really want to perfect the quality of the stuff we put out, so we can be represented to the world as a K-pop group.

Rosé: It's amazing how things are going. It's a big responsibility but a good responsibility that we have.

SuperM Talk 'Super One' & Finding Unity In The Covid Era

Tom Cruise is physically distant from the 2023 Oscars. In fact, he's in the United Kingdom filming Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part II. But Lady Gaga proved more than a worthy ambassador, performing "Hold My Hand" from the blockbuster action sequel.

The emotionally bare performance arrived in the wake of major speculation. Initially, it was just a rumor: she wasinitially reported to be skipping the awards show due to demands on filming "Joker: Folie à Deux." During a creative team press conference on March 8, Oscars executive producer and showrunner Glenn Weiss stated that Gaga would not be performing.

But the 13-time GRAMMY winner came through with an astonishing rendition of "Hold My Hand" — one of six nominations that Top Gun: Maverick received, including Best Picture.

Keep watching this space for more music-related wins at the 2023 Oscars!

For The Record: The Liberating Joy Of Lady Gaga's Born This Way At 10

Three-time GRAMMY-winner Dua Lipa already had two golden gramophones to her name going into the 2021 GRAMMYs. But her third win — and her first for Best Pop Vocal Album — may have been the happiest of them all.

In this episode of GRAMMY Rewind, revisit the special moment when Dua Lipa took the stage to claim her trophy for her album, Future Nostalgia. The second studio album of the singer's career, Future Nostalgia earned her six nominations, including the coveted Album Of The Year as well as Record Of The Year and Song Of The Year for lead single "Don't Start Now."

As she held her new trophy, Lipa reflected on what she's learned through the process of making Future Nostalgia, making special mention of the power of happiness, and putting out happy music.

"I felt really jaded at the end of my last album, where I felt like I only had to make sad music to feel like it mattered," she explained. "And I'm just so grateful and so honored, because happiness is something that we all deserve, and it's something that we all need in our lives."

The singer also threw a spotlight on her fans, team and co-writers during her time onstage. "This means so much," she concluded, adding a shout-out to her family and friends who were watching from home. "I love you, thank you."

Press play on the video above to watch Dua Lipa's complete acceptance speech at the 63rd GRAMMY Awards, and keep checking back to GRAMMY.com every Friday for more new episodes of GRAMMY Rewind. 

Get To Know The 2022 Nominees For Best Pop Duo/Group Performance At The 2023 GRAMMYs

It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

The Rise Of Underground House: How Artists Like Fisher & Acraze Have Taken Tech House, Other Electronic Genres From Indie To EDC

Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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