Photo: Davis Factor
Sex Pistols' Steve Jones Re-Loads "Jonesy’s Jukebox" Podcast Following FX Series Success
"I didn't know what I was doing," the Sex Pistols' Steve Jones says of his radio show-turned-podcast. "But it turned into a great community thing." The guitarist discusses broadcasting, relationships and what the TV show "Pistol" got right and wrong.
If anyone could make podcasting feel authentically punk rock, it’s Steve Jones. The Sex Pistols guitarist — who just saw his life story depicted on screen by director Danny Boyle in FX/Hulu’s bio-drama series "Pistol"— is trying his hand at the platform as of late, presenting his popular radio show "Jonesy’s Jukebox" in a new format for a new audience on Spotify and whereever podcasts are available.
A treasure trove of memories and insights featuring conversations with iconic figures via his old radio show of the same name (broadcast first on L.A.’s now-defunct Indie 103.1 FM, then on KROQ 106.7 FM for a short stint, and finally, the classic rock stalwart KLOS 95.5 FM), "Jonesy’s Jukebox" features candid chats with everyone from the Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde (who is also featured on "Pistol") to Siouxsie and the Banshees and New York Dolls’ David Johansen, as well archived talks with old bandmates John Lydon and Glen Matlock and now-deceased manager Malcom McClaren. Conversations released so far are from the last decade, now previewed with new intros in which Jones provides post-"Pistol" context in his unconventionally honest, occasionally self-deprecating and always engaging style. There’s also brand new interviews with the "Pistol" cast and filmmaker Boyle, and more to come.
"Pistol" was based on Jones’ 2016 autobiography Lonely Boy, but it strives to be more than one man’s story; Boyle set out to chronicle both the band’s short but impactful existence and the era in which it emerged (mid-1970s London) when their music and anarchistic message changed everything. Formed with his high school friend, drummer Paul Cook, then adding bassist Glen Matlock, Jones' first group evolved quickly after he met Malcolm McLaren at his and designer Vivienne Westwood’s King Road boutique, SEX. The young troublemaker and petty thief soon became a muse for the pair and their anti-establishment ideas, which evolved as they were given a provocative new name (they started as the Strand and later the Swankers) and added singer Johnny Rotten. Matlock was later replaced with the infamous Sid Vicious.
Though they only released one record, 1977’s Never Mind the Bollocks: Here’s the Sex Pistols, the band became legends (living ones, as all are still alive except of course, Vicious, who died of a heroin overdose soon after being accused of killing his girlfriend Nancy Spungen).
Arguably, the Pistols' music and image remain symbolic for everything that "punk" stands for: intentionally tattered and deconstructed anti-fashion, loud, noisy, aggressive music, and an ethos rooted in anarchy and destruction of societal mores. The band who famously refused their induction into the Rock & Hall of Fame in 2006 never veered from their defiant legacy, which was celebrated on film in 1980 via McLaren’s The Great Rock n’ Roll Swindle, Julien Temple’s 2000 documentary The Filth and the Fury, and Gary Oldman's 1986 vehicle Sid & Nancy.
Rotten remains a recognizably irascible music figure, mostly due to his outspoken nature and as frontman for Public Image Ltd (PIL), which still plays shows and festivals. Other than the Pistol’s 1996 "Filthy Lucre" reunion tour, Cook and Matlock have stayed mostly under the radar, though Matlock is currently the touring bassist for Blondie. Jones has shown himself to be the most versatile of the bunch, playing in a few different bands over the years — the Professionals with Cook, an act called P with Johnny Depp and the Butthole Surfers’ Gibby Haynes, and the supergroup Neurotic Outsiders with members of Guns n' Roses and Duran Duran (their self-tilted debut was just re-released last month on Supermegabot Records). He’s also had a smattering of memorable acting roles, from "Roseanne" to "Portlandia" to "Californication."
Now that "Pistol" has re-introduced Jones and his seminal rock band to a new generation, "Jonesy’s Jukebox" serves as an inimitable complement to the series — especially for those who want to learn more about the emergence and evolution of British punk and how it influenced music of all genres both within and outside the U.K.. GRAMMY.com spoke with Jones by phone about the show, his relationship with Lydon, and the band that turned rebellion and chaos into chart-topping success.
What made you decide to bring back "Jonesy’s Jukebox" as a podcast? Did "Pistol" spark the idea or did you already want to do it anyway?
No I was going to do it anyway, just because every other Tom, Dick and Harry does one so why not? I just remembered how great [the radio show] was…. It just happened naturally and it was just a fluke, really. But it turned into something great. I did get a lot of complaints and people would be like, "that was s—, man. I want AC/DC!"
My true passion is the other way, playing music too. I like interviewing people, don't get me wrong. That can be fun. As long as you're not asking the usual quack questions. I like opening someone up a bit and talking about different stuff.
The conversation you ran with the late Tony Wilson (of the Manchester music scene and Factory Records) was great because it went over your radio career and how it led to where you are now.
I was driving around L.A. and I came across Indie on my car radio. I'm like, ‘Oh, wow, what is this punk rock station and there's no commercials?’ I didn't realize that the reason they didn't play any commercials was because it just started and they hadn't gotten any advertising. So then I ….said "please I would like to DJ," and it kind of happened.
I didn't know what I was doing. But it turned into a great community thing. You’re driving around in LA, listening to it live, and anything can happen. Anything can change. Anyone can show up. And I could play anything. I played whatever I felt like at that moment in time. It wasn't planned out. It wasn't like radio is now, when they have a format and you have to kind of talk in between it or like on Sirius and all that. They're not playing the music live. They're just talking and then putting the songs in later. To me, that's just like work. That's not fun.
That's the one thing missing a bit, listening to your old shows now in this format, we hear you back-announce the great music that you played initially, but now it’s cut. Still, "Jukebox" maintains that spontaneous energy and great talk. I was pleasantly surprised when I first noticed it on Spotify, especially right after watching "Pistol."
When "Pistol" was coming out, we put one [podcast out] a week on a Monday and ran shows that coincided– that's why we did Tony Wilson, Malcolm McLaren, Chrissie Hynde and John Lydon, because they’re all in it.
You are now recording new interviews for this podcast and you're going to continue the podcast, which is great news. Will we be getting more old archived shows? Will you mix old and new each week? What's the plan for the rollout?
I don't know what the plan is to be honest with you. If I can't find someone to interview, maybe [I'll] pick up an old one. I mean, there's tons of it. It's good, because most people wouldn't even have heard these old ones anyway. It's a different world from when Indie collapsed in 2007-2008.
I recall some great shows you did on KLOS as well, with people like Dave Grohl and Metallica. Will we hear those too?
I believe some of those are on YouTube now. That's a good question. I'm not sure yet.
It’s the early days and it's loose, but I am going to pursue it as best as I can.
The looseness of those interviews is what makes them special. Speaking of, the Chrissie Hynde show was so fun and flirty. And it was a bonus to hear you two playing music together too. Is that something that you will do — pick up your guitar and jam out with more guests?
I think that's totally possible and that is a good avenue to go down. You know, just a couple of acoustics and just jam, that could be fun.
Listening back to that one and then watching your romance with her as it played out in "Pistol" made it all the more insightful and entertaining. Any comment on how your relationship with Hynde was portrayed in the program?
Well, it was definitely, you know, pushed a little more than reality. We definitely hung out a lot back in the day, but not as much as it’s portrayed in "Pistol." But it definitely was a thing. But I wasn't interested in her music, I just wanted to get busy with her.
Well, that really comes out in the interview — that it was a physical thing mostly. I think we all know when we watch movies and shows about bands in any format that certain things are exaggerated. But it was really exciting to hear you and Chrissie reminiscing about your wild days fooling around, going to parties and all of that.
The big interview everyone will definitely want to hear is the 2004 John Lydon conversation, which in the context of now, feels like an important piece of history. That was the first time you guys had talked in a very long time, and the only later era conversation on tape.
That interview with John was a good one.
It really brings another dimension to what we all see in "Pistol," which has gotten really great reviews for the most part. Has that made you happy?
Yeah, of course. You don't want to get a flop out there. There's always going to be naysayers. It's not a documentary, which I say all the time. It's for fun and entertainment. There's a lot of truth in it. But you're going to get these sticklers who are complaining that I don't have the right guitar strap and stuff, which is ridiculous. Just watch it and look at the big picture. And if you don't want to watch it, don't watch it. It's all good.
I think Danny did a great job. He's from the same era as me. It meant a lot to him. He was a punk when it all started. I know everyone's moaning about Disney’s involvement and blah blah blah Disney, but they stepped up to the plate. I’ve got no problem.
How much say did you have? Were you on set during any of the filming? What was your input while it was being made?
I didn't want to go to England. I had a heart attack in 2019 and it took me a long time to recover. I would get panic attacks and anxiety. Everyone was begging me to go over there when they were filming it. I actually went to the airport and I was trying to put on a brave face. I went to the airport and I literally couldn't get on the plane; I just came back. I felt disappointed that I couldn't physically do it. But it was all too much for me.
I just went recently for the premiere because I'm a lot better now than I was.
I hung out with Toby [Wallace, who played him in "Pistol"] a lot — he came to L.A. And I hung out with Craig Pearce, the screenwriter, when he came out for a couple of weeks. I gave Toby some guitar lessons. But I really didn't have a lot of input.
When they started filming, you know I'd see rushes and a few stills here and there, and I was like, "wow, it looks very authentic." But with Danny Boyle doing it, I was like just let him get on with it. That’s how he does it anyway, he don't really listen to anyone. You know, he's got his vision and I'm totally cool with that. I don't need to be poking my nose in.
That's a good point. And so sorry to hear about your heart attack. Glad that you're better now.
Yeah, that was almost three years ago. It was definitely a wake up call for me. I wasn't looking after myself. The hardest thing was having panic attacks. I never had any panic attacks or anything like that prior to the heart attack. I was never a basket case at all. And I turned into a bit of a basket case, but I'm out of it now.
Though critically acclaimed, many music snobs and punk purists also took issue with the accuracy of "Pistol," as you mentioned. What are your feelings about that?
What I liked about it, is that some people have no idea who the Sex Pistols are or they have no idea even what rock and roll is, but still they enjoyed the story.
True. And obviously, it was casted with young actors, some of whom have their own followings. So a new generation got to learn about the impact of the band. Maybe they’ll even seek out the music and you'll win new fans.
I think it's important for young people now to see what that was like back then. And how free it was back then to do whatever the hell you wanted to do, and make something happen. Just to see it, you know, you don't have to change. I'm glad it was done.
Even the band’s members don't all agree with how certain things went down. In your opinion, what was the biggest thing that "Pistol" really nailed versus what was not really very accurate?
I know that it was a big issue for Glenn. Me and my manager did push Danny to say that he wasn't fired from the band, but that he left. It’s kind of wishy washy in the show. I know Glenn is upset the way he was portrayed in it.
I think John is portrayed very good in it. It shows how great he was back in the day.
And it shows how young we were and how we created a great album at such an early age and how it was a little bit of magic for a short period of time. It captures that.
Since you mentioned John, he has been talking to the press quite a bit since "Pistol" came out, mostly negatively. We don’t know if he actually watched it, though. Have you talked to him?
I see the interviews and all that and I wouldn't expect anything less from him, but to be honest I never speak to John even though we live in the same city. I haven’t spoken to him since 2008 when we did some shows in Europe.
There was an issue with using the music in "Pistol," but ultimately you guys went to court and won against John since it was majority rules in terms of permissions right?
We didn't want to go to court. We reached out to get him involved in it. He wasn't interested for whatever reasons, maybe because it wasn't about him. He just did what John does, you know. None of us was expecting him to go along with it to be honest.
Ironically, he really does come off fairly complex, as far as his emotional depth, songwriting skill, and passion for what he believed and was doing.
I don't think he saw it at all when he was bad mouthing it. He probably thought we were doing it to just destroy him because he's obviously making it all about him again. And it was trying to tell the story as close as possible and to get the human elements of the relationship with me and him. I think that was the magic.
You know Sid was one thing; the two of them together looked brilliant. No question about it. And John wanted Sid in because he always wanted his mate… he always felt like it was just me and Cookie [Paul Cook] and no one wanted to hang out with him.
Glenn and him didn't really see eye to eye….But the real chemistry, I think, was when I played guitar and John put words to it. However you want to look at that. And maybe a lot of people don't, but I think the show kind of tapped on that a bit. That there was something special between us.
It was and ultimately it makes the story more compelling. It also makes you wonder what happened to all of you afterward. The podcast provides some answers in that regard. Let’s talk about your other music projects. Your all-star group the Neurotic Outsiders first record was just re-released.
I think that was a great record. Around '95-96 that group started organically from just some guy who we did a benefit for at the Viper Room. We played one week and then we said "oh, that was great, let's do it again." It was John Taylor of Duran Duran, Duff Mckagan and Matt Sorum of Guns n’ Roses. We just played every Monday at the Viper Room and it became a thing.
You would often have big names sometimes jump on stage to jam with you guys right?
All the time. Iggy Pop, Sporty Spice, Chrissie [Hynde].
Any music projects currently? Working on anything?
Well, your fans probably hope that changes. Do you still play at home for pleasure?
Absolutely. Actually there was the Generation Sex thing we did somewhat recently. It was me and Billy Idol and the original bass player from Generation X and Cookie. We did a couple of shows. We did one at the Roxy, I think it was around 2019, and we did one in New York, which was a lot of fun. That's a possibility. We might be doing that again next year.
But to be very honest with you. I really don't give a s— about playing anymore live. I'm just jaded. I just don't care. I see these old bands getting back together and I think they look ridiculous. Rock n' roll, to me, is a young man’s game.
What about the Rolling Stones?
Well I mean, I would never go and see them. Don't get me wrong, I like them. They must obviously love it. They obviously don't need the money, but it's a different thing.
The Pistols, it’s a lot harder and faster tempos, it’s a lot of work. When you’re loose like the Stones I guess you can be a hundred and still be doing it. I don't know.
So the eternal question of will the Sex Pistols ever re-unite live on stage is off the table then?
I had a dream last night, funnily enough. I don't normally remember dreams anymore, but we were in a room together rehearsing. It was a new thing and we were all kind of getting along, even knowing that "Pistol" was still a thorn in John’s side. We were still rehearsing to go on the road. It was bizarre.
For a lot of music fans, that is a dream come true.
I hate saying it ain’t ever going to happen. It only pays off if I need a new kitchen or something. I guess you never know.
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Photo: Rachel Kupfer
A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea
James Brown changed the sound of popular music when he found the power of the one and unleashed the funk with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag." Today, funk lives on in many forms, including these exciting bands from across the world.
It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.
Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.
Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.
In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.
Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.
There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.
Say She She
Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.
While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."
Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.
Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.
Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.
Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.
L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.
During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.
Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.
Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.
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Photo: Steven Sebring
Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage
"One foot in the past and one foot into the future," Billy Idol says, describing his decade-spanning career in rock. "We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol."
Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP, Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.
Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.
Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face."
But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life.
His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves.
Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)
Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") — their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.
While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens.
Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.
Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up.
Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically.
"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?
We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds.
We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick.
I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?
Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol.
You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way.
Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?
I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier.
I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff.
So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.
[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.
I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.
Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?
I did, yes.
You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?
I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.
It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.
But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is] informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.
Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.
We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.
It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].
We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.
You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.
It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.
When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.
You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?
Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."
We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.
You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.
With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.
Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.
You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?
I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.
But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.
I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?
I think it was his car.
Did he get over it later on?
He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.
Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?
In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.
We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.
The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.
There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.
It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.
It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.
Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?
Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.
The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.
The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?
Yeah. Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].
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Graphic: The Recording Academy
Hear All Of The Best Country Solo Performance Nominees For The 2023 GRAMMY Awards
The 2023 GRAMMY Award nominees for Best Country Solo Performance highlight country music's newcomers and veterans, featuring hits from Kelsea Ballerini, Zach Bryan, Miranda Lambert, Maren Morris and Willie Nelson.
Country music's evolution is well represented in the 2023 GRAMMY nominees for Best Country Solo Performance. From crossover pop hooks to red-dirt outlaw roots, the genre's most celebrated elements are on full display — thanks to rising stars, leading ladies and country icons.
Longtime hitmaker Miranda Lambert delivered a soulful performance on the rootsy ballad "In His Arms," an arrangement as sparing as the windswept west Texas highlands where she co-wrote the song. Viral newcomer Zach Bryan dug into similar organic territory on the Oklahoma side of the Red River for "Something in the Orange," his voice accompanied with little more than an acoustic guitar.
Two of country's 2010s breakout stars are clearly still shining, too, as Maren Morris and Kelsea Ballerini both received Best Country Solo Performance GRAMMY nods. Morris channeled the determination that drove her leap-of-faith move from Texas to Nashville for the playful clap-along "Circles Around This Town," while Ballerini brought poppy hooks with a country edge on the infectiously upbeat "HEARTFIRST."
Rounding out the category is the one and only Willie Nelson, who paid tribute to his late friend Billy Joe Shaver with a cover of "Live Forever" — a fitting sentiment for the 89-year-old legend, who is approaching his eighth decade in the business.
As the excitement builds for the 2023 GRAMMYs on Feb. 5, 2023, let's take a closer look at this year's nominees for Best Country Solo Performance.
Kelsea Ballerini — "HEARTFIRST"
In the tradition of Shania Twain, Faith Hill and Carrie Underwood, Kelsea Ballerini represents Nashville's sunnier side — and her single "HEARTFIRST" is a slice of bright, uptempo, confectionary country-pop for the ages.
Ballerini sings about leaning into a carefree crush with her heart on her sleeve, pushing aside her reservations and taking a risk on love at first sight. The scene plays out in a bar room and a back seat, as she sweeps nimbly through the verses and into a shimmering chorus, when the narrator decides she's ready to "wake up in your T-shirt."
There are enough steel guitar licks to let you know you're listening to a country song, but the story and melody are universal. "HEARTFIRST" is Ballerini's third GRAMMY nod, but first in the Best Country Solo Performance category.
Zach Bryan — "Something In The Orange"
Zach Bryan blew into Music City seemingly from nowhere in 2017, when his original song "Heading South" — recorded on an iPhone — went viral. Then an active officer in the U.S. Navy, the Oklahoma native chased his muse through music during his downtime, striking a chord with country music fans on stark songs led by his acoustic guitar and affecting vocals.
After his honorable discharge in 2021, Bryan began his music career in earnest, and in 2022 released "Something in the Orange," a haunting ballad that stakes a convincing claim to the territory between Tyler Childers and Jason Isbell in both sonics and songwriting. Slashing slide guitar drives home the song's heartbreak, as Bryan pines for a lover whose tail lights have long since vanished over the horizon.
"Something In The Orange" marks Bryan's first-ever GRAMMY nomination.
Miranda Lambert — "In His Arms"
Miranda Lambert is the rare, chart-topping contemporary country artist who does more than pay lip service to the genre's rural American roots. "In His Arms" originally surfaced on 2021's The Marfa Tapes, a casual recording Lambert made with Jack Ingram and Jon Randall in Marfa, Texas — a tiny arts enclave in the middle of the west Texas high desert.
In this proper studio version — recorded for her 2022 album, Palomino — Lambert retains the structure and organic feel of the mostly acoustic song; light percussion and soothing atmospherics keep her emotive vocals front and center. A native Texan herself, Lambert sounds fully at home on "In His Arms."
Lambert is the only Best Country Solo Performance nominee who is nominated in all four Country Field categories in 2023. To date, Miranda Lambert has won 3 GRAMMYs and received 27 nominations overall.
Maren Morris — "Circles Around This Town"
When Maren Morris found herself uninspired and dealing with writer's block, she went back to what inspired her to move to Nashville nearly a decade ago — and out came "Circles Around This Town," the lead single from her 2022 album Humble Quest.
Written in one of her first in-person songwriting sessions since the pandemic, Morris has called "Circles Around This Town" her "most autobiographical song" to date; she even recreated her own teenage bedroom for the song's video. As she looks back to her Texas beginnings and the life she left for Nashville, Morris' voice soars over anthemic, yet easygoing production.
Morris last won a GRAMMY for Best Country Solo Performance in 2017, when her song "My Church" earned the singer her first GRAMMY. To date, Maren Morris has won one GRAMMY and received 17 nominations overall.
Willie Nelson — "Live Forever"
Country music icon Willie Nelson is no stranger to the GRAMMYs, and this year he aims to add to his collection of 10 gramophones. He earned another three nominations for 2023 — bringing his career total to 56 — including a Best Country Solo Performance nod for "Live Forever."
Nelson's performance of "Live Forever," the lead track of the 2022 tribute album Live Forever: A Tribute to Billy Joe Shaver, is a faithful rendition of Shaver's signature song. Still, Nelson puts his own twist on the tune, recruiting Lucinda Williams for backing vocals and echoing the melody with the inimitable tone of his nylon-string Martin guitar.
Shaver, an outlaw country pioneer who passed in 2020 at 81 years old, never had any hits of his own during his lifetime. But plenty of his songs were still heard, thanks to stars like Elvis Presley, Kris Kristofferson and Waylon Jennings. Nelson was a longtime friend and frequent collaborator of Shaver's — and now has a GRAMMY nom to show for it.
Graphic: The Recording Academy
Listen: All Of The Latin Music 2023 GRAMMY Nominees In One Playlist
Ahead of Music's Biggest Night on Feb. 5, 2023, celebrate with this immersive playlist of every Latin Field nominee at the 2023 GRAMMYs.
The Latin GRAMMYs may have just honored the genre's trailblazers in Las Vegas on Nov. 17, but the celebration will continue at the upcoming 65th GRAMMY Awards ceremony in February. There are five categories in the Latin Field of the 2023 GRAMMY nominations — and you can hear all of the nominees in one playlist.
In the Best Latin Pop Album category, are Christina Aguilera's Latin GRAMMY-winning AGUILERA will compete with Rubén Blades & Boca Livre's Pasieros, Camilo's De Adendro Pa Afuera, Fonseca's VIAJANTE, and Sebastián Yatra's Dharma+. Channeling their lively Latin roots while traversing pop landscapes, these albums all magnetically merge tradition and modernity.
Reggaeton, dancehall, hip hop, and funk coalesce in the nominated works for Best Música Urbana Album: Rauw Alejandro's Trap Cake, Vol. 2, Bad Bunny's Un Verano Sin Ti, Daddy Yankee's LEGENDADDY, Farruko's La 167, and Maluma's The Love & Sex Tape.
The genre-blending jubilation continues with the Best Latin Rock or Alternative Album category. This year's nominees are Cimafunk's El Alimento, Jorge Drexler's Tinta y Tiempo, Mon Laferte's 1940 Carmen, Gaby Moreno's Alegoría, Fito Paez's Los Años Salvajes, and Rosalía's MOTOMAMI.
For Best Regional Mexican Music Album (Including Tejano), 2021 winner Natalia Lafourcade's Un Canto por México - El Musical is up against Chiquis' Abeja Reina, Los Tigres Del Norte's La Reunión (Deluxe), Christian Nodal's EP #1 Forajido, and Marco Antonio Solís' Qué Ganas de Verte (Deluxe).
As for Best Tropical Latin Album, Marc Anthony — a two-time winner in the category — returns as a nominee with Pa'lla Voy, alongside pioneers Tito Nieves (nominated for Legendario), La Santa Cecilia (Quiero Verte Feliz), Víctor Manuelle (Lado A Lado B), Spanish Harlem Orchestra (Imágenes Latinas), and Carlos Vives (Cumbiana II).
Listen to all of the above albums in this comprehensive, 338-song playlist of the Latin music GRAMMY nominees at the 2023 GRAMMYs.
Check it out on Pandora, Spotify, Apple Music, and Amazon Music — and we'll see you at Music's Biggest Night on Sunday, Feb. 5!