meta-scriptHow 'SOS' Transformed SZA Into A Superstar & Solidified Her As The Vulnerability Queen | GRAMMY.com
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(L-R): SZA at Global Citizen Festival in 2022, at the 2022 GRAMMYs, and on her 2023 tour.

Photos (L-R): Jemal Countess/Getty Images for Global Citizen, Frazer Harrison/Getty Images for The Recording Academy, Andrew Chin/Getty Images

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How 'SOS' Transformed SZA Into A Superstar & Solidified Her As The Vulnerability Queen

After establishing herself as the "not R&B" star who wears her heart on her sleeve, SZA delivered a career-defining second album. As she celebrates her Album Of The Year nomination — and eight others — at the 2024 GRAMMYs, revisit her journey to 'SOS.'

GRAMMYs/Jan 24, 2024 - 08:55 pm

Since SZA dropped her second studio album, SOS, in December 2022, her career has only continued to skyrocket.

The record-shattering album yielded multiple hit singles, including "I Hate U," "Snooze," and her first Billboard Hot 100 chart-topper, "Kill Bill"; in turn, SZA became her one of 2023's most-streamed artists and earned Billboard's Woman of the Year Award. And her remarkable 2023 is further reflected at the 2024 GRAMMYs: with nine nominations, SZA is this year's most-nominated artist, earning her first nods in the Album Of The Year, Record Of The Year and Song Of The Year categories for her own work.

But SZA's massive success is anything but unprecedented. She's been building a loyal fan base since 2012, first with a couple of self-released EPs, followed by a few brag-worthy writing credits, including Nicki Minaj and Beyoncé's "Feeling Myself" in 2014. 

Two years later, she proved just how lethal her pen game isà la "Consideration," the trippy opening track on Rihanna's career-defining album, 2016's Anti. Though the song — which featured vocals from SZA — was originally intended for her debut album, 2017's CTRL, the collab didn't take away from the success of her own project. If anything, "Consideration" set up a star in the making.

SZA, born Solána Imani Rowe, has since emerged as a leading voice of her generation. Her brazenly honest, anxiety-ridden and self-deprecating storytelling explores every pent-up emotion that comes with unfulfilling relationships and battles over self-worth.

"I get so lonely, I forget what I'm worth/ We get so lonely, we pretend that this works/ I'm so ashamed of myself, think I need therapy," she declares in "Drew Barrymore," the lead single from CTRL. She revisits the narrative on SOS' smash single, "Kill Bill," but with an ironic (and murderous) twist: "I'm so mature, I got me a therapist to tell me there's other men/ I don't want none, I just want you/ If I can't have you, no one should."

Baring her soul through music is exactly what has made SZA so beloved. Her self-described "grimy" tales of love and heartbreak translate into a safe haven for listeners to face the messiest versions of themselves. She approaches the tough topics with a level of self-awareness and levity that brings light to the dark.

2024 GRAMMYs: Explore More & Meet The Nominees

But to label her style as "sad girl music" misses the point. She wears her flaws like a cape; in doing so, she's not only dismantling the "strong Black woman" trope that undermines the humanity of Black women — she's also allowing any listener to simply feel.

"My favorite game to play at her shows is finding the tough guy, the straight dude who doesn't want to show no emotion, and as soon as his song comes on, he loses his mind," Top Dawg Entertainment co-president Terrence "Punch" Henderson — who signed SZA two years after meeting her at then-labelmate Kendrick Lamar's show in New York City — told AP News in late 2017.

"The words she's saying is honest and raw," Henderson continued. "She's speaking for these girls and also these guys."

SZA's willingness to wear her heart on her sleeve and do so unapologetically has been apparent since the beginning of her career. Many of her songs from her self-released days and CTRL bring the same level of honesty and vulnerability as her latest masterpiece, SOS. Her 2012 debut project, See.SZA.Run, kicks off with "Bed," a vengeful tune that sounds a lot like a precursor to "Kill Bill." Whereas, CTRL's "Garden (Say It Like Dat)" thrusts her physical insecurities into the spotlight: "'You know I'm sensitive 'bout havin' no booty/ Havin' no body, only you buddy/ Can you hold me when nobody's around us?," she sings in the second verse.

She further expands on her vulnerability with SOS — 23 vignettes detailing "bizarre acts of self-embarrassment," as she described it to Rolling Stone. But as she's expressed both in her music and the public eye, awkwardness is her M.O.

"I get bored as f— writing about anything that isn't, like, super embarrassing," SZA told Variety in late 2023. "And I feel like those things that I don't want to say or acknowledge about myself are [songwriting] material — if it interests me to the point where it's worth the risk.

"There's mad aspects to my life," she continued. "But people don't really know that, because all I sing about are the hidden aspects that I think are more interesting. Honestly, I could write about jet-skiing with my friends, but I don't want to make a song about that, and I don't want to hear a song about it either."

SZA opens SOS with its title track, which simultaneously serves as a reintroduction and a rebirth. She rolls feelings of abandonment and unrest all into one assertive, short-and-sweet track. Her cries for help are intensified by the Morse code distress signal as she declares, "I just want what's mine" with a newfound boldness. 

Further down the track list, she admits to getting a Brazilian butt lift in "Conceited"; "Smoking on My Ex Pack" shows off her rap skills while disintegrating her past lovers. The ethereal "I Hate U" sees her harboring resentment toward an old flame, while "Blind" highlights just how self-aware she's become — realizing her relationships fail due to her lack of self-love.

Her most recent hit, "Snooze," brings a glimmer of hope to an album that mostly stews in regret. Yet SZA still can't resist being a little bit possessive. "I told that lie, I'd kill that b— / I do what all of them around you scared to do, I'm not / Long as you juggin' out here for me, I got it," she sings in the opening verse.

SOS also further expands on SZA's genre fluidity — another aspect of her wide-spanning appeal, and something she's proudly proclaimed since famously categorizing her single "Teen Spirit" as "Not R&B" in 2013. Since then, the singer's propensity for both relatability and genre-blurring musicality has flipped R&B on its head, bringing new life to the genre while inspiring the likes of Summer Walker and Ari Lennox.

In one of her most unexpected moves for SOS, she recruited alt/indie star Phoebe Bridgers for "Ghost in the Machine," which earned a 2024 GRAMMY nom for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance (the same Category she won with Doja Cat for their collab "Kiss Me More" in 2022). In "F2F," her inner pop-punk princess comes out to play as she sings, "I f— him 'cause I miss you" over an angsty, grunge-fueled sound reminiscent of Fefe Dobson, Avril Lavigne, and Paramore; she explores a similar sound in "Nobody Gets Me" and the Radiohead-inspired "Special." 

Album closer "Forgiveless" perfectly encapsulates the juxtaposition of SZA's wide-ranging influences, as she simultaneously samples Björk's "Hidden Place" and Ol' Dirty Bastard's "The Stomp." 

With SZA, her shifting sound doesn't feel pretentious; rather, it's another way of showing different facets of herself. While accepting the BET Award for Best New Artist in 2018, she advised the audience to "follow your passion, ignore everyone" — and she has done just that from the start whether lyrically or sonically. 

Read More: 5 Takeaways From SZA's New Album 'SOS'

She further played by her own rules with the 2022 release of SOS, as she released it five years after its predecessor. Even so, she managed to stay at the forefront of popular music during her extended hiatus. In between albums, she joined forces with Kendrick Lamar, Maroon 5, Post Malone, Cardi B, and Doja Cat; six months before SOS's arrival, SZA also commemorated the five-year anniversary of CTRL with a deluxe edition with seven new tracks.

Upon its arrival, SOS proved to be her biggest feat yet. Debuting at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 — SZA's first on the all-genre chart — the album also boasted the largest streaming week for an R&B album in 2022. What's more, SOS topped albums charts around the world, as well as Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart.

The album's subsequent tour further proved her impact, as SZA embarked on her first headlining arena trek, which included two sold-out shows at New York City's famed Madison Square Garden. The hot-ticketed show also brought out several superstars, including Adele, Justin Bieber, Olivia Rodrigo, Tate McRae, Justin Timberlake, Jennifer Lopez and Pedro Pascal. 

Yet, even after SOS proved to be a wildly successful comeback, SZA may shake things up again by stepping away from music for good. She hinted at the possibility in a recent Apple Music Radio interview with Zane Lowe. 

"I have already gone platinum — I didn't think I would ever go platinum — I sold a bunch of records. I got to meet Stevie Wonder, I got to meet Beyoncé and work with her, I got to meet Frank Ocean," she said. "My mom came and my dad came to all these cool countries to see me perform. I've had sold out shows, I got to headline a festival. Like, what else do I want? I'm nominated for GRAMMYs. I've won a GRAMMY. I'm done, for me, personally. Anything past this is so much more than I wanted, thought of, dreamed of."

Whether or not SOS will mark her last LP, SZA has already changed R&B as we know it. She has fearlessly navigated the music industry on her own terms, refusing to be pigeonholed or hide who she is — leaving an indelible mark on pop culture as a whole.

SZA's Massive Year Continues, 'Barbie' Dominates & Big Firsts From The 2024 GRAMMYs Nominations

A photo of a GRAMMY Award featured listing the five nominations for the 2024 GRAMMYs at the 2024 Emmys, including Outstanding Variety Special (Live), Outstanding Production Design for a Variety Special, and more.
The 2024 GRAMMYs telecast is nominated for five awards at the 2024 Emmys

Graphic Courtesy of CBS

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The 2024 GRAMMYs Have Been Nominated For 5 Emmys: See Which Categories

The 2024 GRAMMYs telecast is nominated for Outstanding Variety Special (Live), Outstanding Production Design For A Variety Special, and three more awards at the 2024 Emmys, which take place Sunday, Sept. 15.

GRAMMYs/Jul 17, 2024 - 11:13 pm

It’s officially awards season! Today, the nominees for the 2024 Emmys dropped — and, happily, the 2024 GRAMMYs telecast received a whopping five nominations.

At the 2024 Emmys, the 2024 GRAMMYs telecast is currently nominated for Outstanding Variety Special (Live), Outstanding Production Design for a Variety Special, Outstanding Lighting Design/Lighting Direction for a Variety Special, Outstanding Sound Mixing for a Variety Series or Special, and Outstanding Technical Direction and Camerawork for a Special.

Across these categories, this puts Music’s Biggest Night in a friendly head-to-head with other prestigious awards shows and live variety specials, including the Super Bowl LVIII Halftime Show starring Usher as well as fellow awards shows the Oscars and the Tonys.

2024 was a banner year for the GRAMMYs. Music heroes returned to the spotlight; across Categories, so many new stars were minted. New GRAMMY Categories received their inaugural winners: Best African Music Performance, Best Alternative Jazz Album and Best Pop Dance Recording. Culture-shaking performances and acceptance speeches went down. Those we lost received a loving farewell via the In Memoriam segment.

The 2025 GRAMMYs will take place Sunday, Feb. 2, live at Crypto.com Arena in Los Angeles and will broadcast live on the CBS Television Network and stream live and on demand on Paramount+. Nominations for the 2025 GRAMMYs will be announced Friday, Nov. 8, 2024.

For more information about the 2025 GRAMMY Awards season, learn more about the annual GRAMMY Awards processread our FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section, view the official GRAMMY Awards Rules and Guidelines, and visit the GRAMMY Award Update Center for a list of real-time changes to the GRAMMY Awards process.

GRAMMY News, Performances & Highlights

Photo of a gold GRAMMY trophy against a black background with white lights.
GRAMMY Award statue

Photo: Jathan Campbell

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How Much Is A GRAMMY Worth? 7 Facts To Know About The GRAMMY Award Trophy

Here are seven facts to know about the actual cost and worth of a GRAMMY trophy, presented once a year by the Recording Academy at the GRAMMY Awards.

GRAMMYs/May 1, 2024 - 04:23 pm

Since 1959, the GRAMMY Award has been music’s most coveted honor. Each year at the annual GRAMMY Awards, GRAMMY-winning and -nominated artists are recognized for their musical excellence by their peers. Their lives are forever changed — so are their career trajectories. And when you have questions about the GRAMMYs, we have answers.

Here are seven facts to know about the value of the GRAMMY trophy.

How Much Does A GRAMMY Trophy Cost To Make?

The cost to produce a GRAMMY Award trophy, including labor and materials, is nearly $800. Bob Graves, who cast the original GRAMMY mold inside his garage in 1958, passed on his legacy to John Billings, his neighbor, in 1983. Billings, also known as "The GRAMMY Man," designed the current model in use, which debuted in 1991.

How Long Does It Take To Make A GRAMMY Trophy?

Billings and his crew work on making GRAMMY trophies throughout the year. Each GRAMMY is handmade, and each GRAMMY Award trophy takes 15 hours to produce. 

Where Are The GRAMMY Trophies Made?

While Los Angeles is the headquarters of the Recording Academy and the GRAMMYs, and regularly the home of the annual GRAMMY Awards, GRAMMY trophies are produced at Billings Artworks in Ridgway, Colorado, about 800 miles away from L.A.

Is The GRAMMY Award Made Of Real Gold?

GRAMMY Awards are made of a trademarked alloy called "Grammium" — a secret zinc alloy — and are plated with 24-karat gold.

How Many GRAMMY Trophies Are Made Per Year?

Approximately 600-800 GRAMMY Award trophies are produced per year. This includes both GRAMMY Awards and Latin GRAMMY Awards for the two Academies; the number of GRAMMYs manufactured each year always depends on the number of winners and Categories we award across both award shows.

Fun fact: The two GRAMMY trophies have different-colored bases. The GRAMMY Award has a black base, while the Latin GRAMMY Award has a burgundy base.

Photos: Gabriel Bouys/AFP via Getty Images; Frederick M. Brown/Getty Images

How Much Does A GRAMMY Weigh?

The GRAMMY trophy weighs approximately 5 pounds. The trophy's height is 9-and-a-half inches. The trophy's width is nearly 6 inches by 6 inches.

What Is The True Value Of A GRAMMY?

Winning a GRAMMY, and even just being nominated for a GRAMMY, has an immeasurable positive impact on the nominated and winning artists. It opens up new career avenues, builds global awareness of artists, and ultimately solidifies a creator’s place in history. Since the GRAMMY Award is the only peer-voted award in music, this means artists are recognized, awarded and celebrated by those in their fields and industries, ultimately making the value of a GRAMMY truly priceless and immeasurable.

In an interview featured in the 2024 GRAMMYs program book, two-time GRAMMY winner Lauren Daigle spoke of the value and impact of a GRAMMY Award. "Time has passed since I got my [first] GRAMMYs, but the rooms that I am now able to sit in, with some of the most incredible writers, producers and performers on the planet, is truly the greatest gift of all." 

"Once you have that credential, it's a different certification. It definitely holds weight," two-time GRAMMY winner Tariq "Black Thought" Trotter of the Roots added. "It's a huge stamp as far as branding, businesswise, achievement-wise and in every regard. What the GRAMMY means to people, fans and artists is ever-evolving." 

As Billboard explains, artists will often see significant boosts in album sales and streaming numbers after winning a GRAMMY or performing on the GRAMMY stage. This is known as the "GRAMMY Effect," an industry phenomenon in which a GRAMMY accolade directly influences the music biz and the wider popular culture. 

For new artists in particular, the "GRAMMY Effect" has immensely helped rising creators reach new professional heights. Samara Joy, who won the GRAMMY for Best New Artist at the 2023 GRAMMYs, saw a 989% boost in sales and a 670% increase in on-demand streams for her album Linger Awhile, which won the GRAMMY for Best Jazz Vocal Album that same night. H.E.R., a former Best New Artist nominee, saw a massive 6,771% increase in song sales for her hit “I Can’t Breathe” on the day it won the GRAMMY for Song Of The Year at the 2021 GRAMMYs, compared to the day before, Rolling Stone reports

Throughout the decades, past Best New Artist winners have continued to dominate the music industry and charts since taking home the GRAMMY gold — and continue to do so to this day. Recently, Best New Artist winners dominated the music industry and charts in 2023: Billie Eilish (2020 winner) sold 2 million equivalent album units, Olivia Rodrigo (2022 winner) sold 2.1 million equivalent album units, and Adele (2009 winner) sold 1.3 million equivalent album units. Elsewhere, past Best New Artist winners have gone on to star in major Hollywood blockbusters (Dua Lipa); headline arena tours and sign major brand deals (Megan Thee Stallion); become LGBTIA+ icons (Sam Smith); and reach multiplatinum status (John Legend).

Most recently, several winners, nominees and performers at the 2024 GRAMMYs saw significant bumps in U.S. streams and sales: Tracy Chapman's classic, GRAMMY-winning single "Fast Car," which she performed alongside Luke Combs, returned to the Billboard Hot 100 chart for the first time since 1988, when the song was originally released, according to Billboard. Fellow icon Joni Mitchell saw her ‘60s classic “Both Sides, Now,” hit the top 10 on the Digital Song Sales chart, Billboard reports.

In addition to financial gains, artists also experience significant professional wins as a result of their GRAMMY accolades. For instance, after she won the GRAMMY for Best Reggae Album for Rapture at the 2020 GRAMMYs, Koffee signed a U.S. record deal; after his first GRAMMYs in 2014, Kendrick Lamar saw a 349% increase in his Instagram following, Billboard reports. 

Visit our interactive GRAMMY Awards Journey page to learn more about the GRAMMY Awards and the voting process behind the annual ceremony.

2024 GRAMMYs: See The Full Winners & Nominees List

Doja Cat & SZA GRAMMY Rewind Hero
(L-R) Doja Cat and SZA at the 2022 GRAMMYs.

Photo: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images for The Recording Academy

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GRAMMY Rewind: Watch Doja Cat & SZA Tearfully Accept Their First GRAMMYs For "Kiss Me More"

Relive the moment the pair's hit "Kiss Me More" took home Best Pop Duo/Group Performance, which marked the first GRAMMY win of their careers.

GRAMMYs/Mar 1, 2024 - 06:11 pm

As Doja Cat put it herself, the 2022 GRAMMYs were a "big deal" for her and SZA.

Doja Cat walked in with eight nominations, while SZA entered the ceremony with five. Three of those respective nods were for their 2021 smash "Kiss Me More," which ultimately helped the superstars win their first GRAMMYs.

In this episode of GRAMMY Rewind, revisit the night SZA and Doja Cat accepted the golden gramophone for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance — a milestone moment that Doja Cat almost missed.

"Listen. I have never taken such a fast piss in my whole life," Doja Cat quipped after beelining to the stage. "Thank you to everybody — my family, my team. I wouldn't be here without you, and I wouldn't be here without my fans."

Before passing the mic to SZA, Doja also gave a message of appreciation to the "Kill Bill" singer: "You are everything to me. You are incredible. You are the epitome of talent. You're a lyricist. You're everything."

SZA began listing her praises for her mother, God, her supporters, and, of course, Doja Cat. "I love you! Thank you, Doja. I'm glad you made it back in time!" she teased.

"I like to downplay a lot of s— but this is a big deal," Doja tearfully concluded. "Thank you, everybody."

Press play on the video above to hear Doja Cat and SZA's complete acceptance speech for Best Pop Duo/Group Performance at the 2022 GRAMMY Awards, and check back to GRAMMY.com for more new episodes of GRAMMY Rewind.

How 'SOS' Transformed SZA Into A Superstar & Solidified Her As The Vulnerability Queen

Billy Joel Freddy Wexler
Photo: Lester Cohen/Getty Images for The Recording Academy

(L-R) Billy Joel, Freddy Wexler

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Freddy Wexler On Helping Billy Joel "Turn The Lights Back On" — At The 2024 GRAMMYs And Beyond

"Part of what was so beautiful for me to see on GRAMMY night was the respect and adoration that people of all ages and from all genres have for Billy Joel," Wexler says of Joel's 2024 GRAMMYs performance of their co-written "Turn The Lights Back On."

GRAMMYs/Feb 26, 2024 - 09:11 pm

They say to not meet your heroes. But when Freddy Wexler — a lifelong Billy Joel fan — did just that, it was as if Joel walked straight out of his record collection.

"I think the truth is none of it is that surprising," the 37-year-old songwriter and producer tells GRAMMY.com. "That's the best part. From his music, I would've thought this is a humble, brilliant everyman who probably walks around with a very grounded perspective, and that's exactly who he is."

That groundedness made possible "Turn the Lights Back On" — the hit comeback single they co-wrote, and Wexler co-produced; Joel performed a resplendent version at the 2024 GRAMMYs with Laufey. Joel hadn't released a pop album since 1993's River of Dreams; for him to return to the throne would take an awfully demonstrative song, true to his life.

"I think it's a very raw, honest, real perspective that is true to Billy," Wexler explains. "I think it's the first time we've heard him acknowledge mistakes and regret in quite this way."

Specifically, Joel's return highlights his regret over spending three decades mostly on the bench, largely absent from the pop scene. As Joel wonders aloud in the stirring, arpeggiated chorus, "Is there still time for forgiveness?"

"Forgiveness" is a curious word. Why would the five-time GRAMMY winner and 23-time nominee possibly need to seek forgiveness? Regardless — as the song goes — he's "tryin' to find the magic/ That we lost somehow." The song's message — an attempt to recapture a lost essence — transcends Joel's personal headspace, connecting with a universal longing and nostalgia.

Read on for an interview with Wexler about the impact of "Turn the Lights Back On," why he thinks Joel took such an extended sabbatical, the prospect of more new music, and much more.

This interview has been edited for clarity.

**You did a great interview with Rolling Stone ahead of the 2024 GRAMMYs. Now, we're on the other side of it; you got to see how it went down on the telecast, and resonated with the audience and world. What was that like?**

It's why I make music — to hopefully make people feel something. This song has really resonated in such a big way. More than looking at its commercial success on the charts or on radio, which has been awesome to see, the comments on Instagram and YouTube have been the most rewarding part of it.

Why do you think it resonated? Beyond the king picking up his crown again?

I don't think the song is trying to be anything it's not. I think it's a very raw, honest, real perspective that is true to Billy. I think it's the first time we've heard him acknowledge mistakes and regret in quite this way. And to hear him do it in a hopeful way where he's asking, "Is it too late for forgiveness?" is just very moving, I think.

Forgiveness? That's interesting. What would any of us need to forgive him?

He has said in other interviews, "Sometimes people say they have no regrets at the end of their life." And he said, "I don't think that's possible. If you've lived a full life, of course you have regrets." He has said that he has many things he wishes he would've done differently. This is an opportunity to express that.

I think what's interesting about the song is it has found meaning in various ways with various people and listeners. Some people imagine Billy is singing to former lovers or friends. Other people imagine Billy is singing to his fans asking, "Did I wait too long to record again?" Other people wonder if Billy is singing to the songwriting Gods and muses. Did I wait too long to write again?

In Israel, where the song was number one — or is number one, I haven't checked today — I think the song's taken on the meaning of just wanting things to be normal, wanting hostages to come home and turn the lights back on. So, you never know where a song is going to resonate, but I think that Billy just found his own meaning with it.

You know the discography front to back. What lines can you draw from "Turn the Lights Back On" to past works?

I think it draws on various pieces of his catalog, right? "She's Always a Woman" has a sort of piano arpeggio in the chorus. To me, it feels like a natural progression. It feels like, on the one hand, it's a new song. On the other, it could have come out right after River of Dreams. To me, it just kind of feels natural.

**Back when you spoke with Rolling Stone, you said you couldn't wait to hear "Turn the Lights Back On" at Madison Square Garden. How'd it sound?**

Amazing. Billy is a consummate live performer. I think he's one of the few artists where everything is better live, and everything is always a little bit different each time it's played live.

It's been really cool to watch Billy and the band continue to change and improve the song and the song's dynamics for the show. He told me tonight that tomorrow night in Tampa, I think they're going to try to play with the key of the song, potentially — try it a half a step higher.

Those are the sort of things I think great artists do, right? It's different from being on a certain type of tour where every single song is the same, the set list is the same, the key is the same, the arrangements are the same.

With Billy, there's a lot of feeling and, "Hey, why don't we try it this way? Let's play it a little faster. Let's play it a little slower. Let's try it in a different key." I just think that's super cool. You have to be a really good musician to just do that on the fly.

What have you learned from him that applies to your music making, writ large?

I've learned so much from him. As Olivia Rodrigo said to us at GRAMMY rehearsals, "He's the blueprint when it comes to songwriting."

He has helped raise the bar for me when it comes to melodies and lyrics, but the thing I keep coming back to is he's reminded me that even the greatest artists and songwriters ever sometimes forget how great they are. I think we need to be careful not to give that inner voice and inner critic too much power.

Can you talk about how the music video came to be?

Well, I had a dream that Billy was singing the opening two lines of the song, but it was a 25-year-old version of Billy. It was arresting.

When I woke up, I sort of had the vision for the video, which was one set, an empty venue of some kind, and four Billy Joels. The Billy Joel that really exists today, but then three Billys from three iconic eras where each Billy would seamlessly pick up the song where the other left off.

The idea behind that was to sort of accentuate the question of the song — did I wait too long to turn the lights back on?

And so, to kind of take us through time and through all these years, I teamed up with an amazing co-director, Warren Fu, who's done everything from Dua Lipa to Daft Punk, and an artificial intelligence company called Deep Voodoo to make that vision possible.

What I'm driven by is the opportunity to create conversations, cultural moments, things that make people feel something. What was cool here is as scary as AI is — and I think it is scary in many ways — we were able to give an example of how you can use it in a positive way to execute a creative artistic vision that previously would've been impossible to execute.

Yeah, so I'm pleased with it and I'm thankful that Billy did a video. He didn't have to do one, but he liked the idea of it. He felt it was different, and I think he was moved by it as well.

What do you think is the next step here?

It's been a really rewarding process. And Billy is open-minded, which is really cool for an artist of that level, who's not a new artist by any stretch. To actually be described as being in a place in his life where he's open-minded, means anything is possible. I could tell you that I would love there to be more music.

I'd love to get your honest appraisal. And I know you're not him. But his last pop album was released 31 years ago. In that long interim, what do you think was going on with him, creatively?

Look, I'm not Billy Joel, but I think there were a number of factors going on with him. Somewhere along the way, I think he stopped having fun with music, which is the reason he got into it, or which is a big part of the reason he got into it. When it stopped being fun, I don't think he really wanted to do it anymore.

Another piece to it is that Billy is a perfectionist, and that perfectionism is evident in the caliber of his songwriting. Having always written 100 percent of his songs, Billy at some point probably found that process to be painstaking, to try to hit that bar where he's probably wondering in his head, What would Beethoven think of this? What would Leonard Bernstein think of this?

I think part of what was different here was that, perhaps, there was something liberating about "Turn the Lights Back On" being a seed that was brought to Billy. In this way, he could be a little disconnected from it, where maybe he didn't have to have the self-imposed pressure that he would if it was an idea that he'd been trying to finish for a while.

Ironically, he still made it. Well, there's no "ironically," but I think that's it. There's something to that.

Billy Joel's Biggest Songs: 15 Tracks That Best Showcase The Piano Man's Storytelling And Pop Hooks