For as long as we've had toes to tap, society's great minds have tried to explain the inner workings of music, searching for what makes it "good."

The results of this search range from the most basic reductions like minor-key-sad/major-key-happy to sophisticated brain wave data analysis and dopamine measurements — all aimed at decoding how a composer's decisions impact the quality of a song.

So when Gizmodo asked a small group of neuroscientist and music enthusiasts for their take on science's role in determining what makes a song "good," the answers touched on every aspect of music interpretation from the most analytical to the most visceral.

"We can measure how people respond to a song in a bunch of ways, including brain scans," neuroscientist and Director of the Science Gallery at King’s College London Daniel Glaser explains. "Actually measuring foot tapping or the smile muscles is probably just as good as more 'scientific methods.'"

In the end, perhaps the most convincing argument is the impromptu tweetstorm that prompted Gizmodo's investigation to confirm that, indeed, GRAMMY-winning band Toto's "Africa" is the best song ever made. Just ask a scientist:

"Science says 'Africa' is the best song ever made," jokes David Poeppel, professor of psychology and neural science at New York University, after concurring with the sentiment on Twitter and pointing to Toto's respected musical credentials.

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While we love this song too, somehow we think this is a case that is far from closed.

Read more about the universal language: Why humans need music

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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Harvey Mason jr. didn't just visit Africa — he was transformed by it.

In 2022, the Recording Academy CEO visited a number of African countries, where he met with leaders in the local music communities and intently listened to what each had to say.

"Mind-bending. Game-changing. Eye-opening," Mason jr. said of his trips to Africa. "There's so much music, so much creativity over there. Africa is the birthplace of, well, everything, but definitely music."

Accordingly, the universe of sounds coming out of the African continent can't be boiled down to just those having an international impact today, like Afrobeats or Amapiano. No, every corner of Africa is a fount of brilliant musical offerings. So it's incumbent on the Recording Academy, the world's leading community of music professionals, to reflect the momentum happening across Africa.

With this as the engine, the Recording Academy has revealed a thrilling new GRAMMY category in time for the 2024 GRAMMYs: Best African Music Performance.

Announced in tandem with two other exciting, new GRAMMY categories, including Best Alternative Jazz Album and Best Pop Dance Recording, the category elevates all flavors of African music — from Afrobeats to kizomba to Ghanaian drill to South African hip-hop — without regard to borders. Musical excellence from anywhere and everywhere in Africa will be carefully considered in this progressive category. 

While this development is a forward-thinking expansion for the Recording Academy, the GRAMMYs, and the international music industry as a whole, the new Best African Music Performance category is the "first step toward a much bigger, more fruitful journey ahead," Mason jr. tells GRAMMY.com. "And we're not done as an Academy: We're making sure that we represent music from that region fairly and accurately."

Read More: 2024 GRAMMYs: 4 Things To Know About The New Categories & Changes

To celebrate the new category, GRAMMY.com sat down with industry leaders — including Mason jr. — to discuss the story behind the brand-new Best African Music Performance GRAMMY category, its impact on the global music industry, and the future of African music.

These interviews were edited and condensed for clarity and brevity.

*Harvey Mason jr. Photo: Emma McIntyre by Getty Images*

Harvey Mason jr. 
CEO, The Recording Academy

Harvey, you've spoken extensively about your recent travels to a number of African countries. I've got to imagine those trips informed the new Best African Music Performance category.

Absolutely. I've done three trips to Africa in the last year. I spent a lot of time listening to and hearing from the music community there. There's such a massive amount of talent and creativity in that region, and we're starting to see that penetrating the U.S. market and global market — with Afrobeats and Amapiano and other African genres becoming so popular, driving the sound, and dictating the creativity of artists that are not from that region. You're seeing collaborations and features happening around those genres, which are becoming so popular and are moving the music landscape.  

During my time there, I heard from the African music industry, and they all felt like they weren't being represented in our GRAMMY Awards process. It was an eye-opening experience to see the love and respect for the GRAMMYs and the Recording Academy from the continent of Africa. But it was also disheartening to think that they weren't being heard in our process. 

That's why I'm really excited about this new GRAMMY category. And I'm really looking forward to seeing what kind of submissions we get and what impact that has on the genres coming from Africa. 

It's great to see the Recording Academy's purview spanning the entire African continent — not just popular sounds like Afrobeats or Afro Pop. 

It was important for us to make sure we tried to include as many genres as possible, knowing that we were not going to be able to put all the genres being created across the continent.  

We can't cover every genre as much as we'd like to and as much as they deserve to be recognized, so this is the first step toward a much bigger, more fruitful journey ahead. And we're not done as an Academy: We're making sure that we represent music from that region fairly and accurately. 

Read More: Love Burna Boy & Wizkid? Listen To These 5 African Genres 

Can you tell me about the deliberations behind the scenes at the Recording Academy that led to the creation of the Best African Music Performance GRAMMY category? 

Deliberations were pretty brief and succinct. Everybody acknowledged the importance of the music coming from that region, and everyone was supportive of the idea. The conversation really centered mostly around the nomenclature — what we were going to call the category — and how we were going to ensure that we represented all the different music that's coming from the region fairly, accurately and inclusively. 

Once we realized we couldn't cover everything, we tried to find the sweet spot for making sure that the category was named properly and fairly and in a way that would invite participation from as many people as possible. 

Where would you like to see the Recording Academy go from here, as per its embrace of African music from across the continent? 

I'd love to see the Academy continue to make sure that we're respecting all music, not just Western music. And I'd like to see us continue to evolve as we have been these past three years: remaining fluid and accommodating, quickly and swiftly, as new genres and new markets emerge. 

We need to go deeper and in more detail within different genres of music. We know there are multiple different types of music — hundreds of genres, in fact — coming from Africa and from all 54 countries on the continent. I'd love to see us be able to honor even more music from Africa and other areas of the world. 

The future of the Recording Academy is going to build on equity. We're not just honoring music breaking in our country — we're celebrating music from around the world. 

Read More: 7 Incredible Sets From AfroNation Miami: WizKid, Uncle Waffles, Black Sherif & More 

*Ghazi. Photo: Jessica Chou* 

Ghazi 
CEO/Founder, EMPIRE 

Tell me about the deliberations behind the scenes at the Recording Academy that led to the creation of the Best African Music Performance category.  

When we first had Shawn Thwaites, [the Recording Academy's] genre manager for Global Music & African Music, at our EMPIRE headquarters in San Francisco, we discussed the potential for this category to come to life. Not only has African music exploded on a commercial level, which warrants recognition, but on a cultural level, its impact has been immeasurable. Behind the scenes, we focused on sharing information with the Recording Academy that would be valuable to their committee deciding on this category, the consumption and the growth, specifically in North America.  

One could spend several lifetimes exploring the diversity of African music. How do you begin to boil all those sounds down to a small list of nominees?  

I think we'll see expanded categories in African music in the years to come, but this is a great start toward recognizing the merits and impact of African music. In the meantime, we look forward to working with the Recording Academy in putting together programming to help educate the current membership on the nuances and history of African music.  

This new GRAMMY category shows how the Recording Academy is truly a global entity with a global mission to support all music creators and professionals. Where would you like to see the Recording Academy go from here in its global mission to support the international music community? 

This is an exciting time in music. Fans are able to access any genre of music from any region of the world at any time. With that, it's inevitable that we'll see large-scale growth in international music in the coming years. It'll be imperative for the Recording Academy to establish a footprint, large or small, on every continent to work side by side with growing music communities around the world and support these artists and creators.  

*Tunde Ajaba-Ogundipe. Photo: Harvard Business School* 

Tunde Ajaba-Ogundipe 
GM, African strategy at Sony Music 
Co-founder, No Wahala

Tell me about the deliberations behind the scenes at the Recording Academy that led to the creation of the Best African Music Performance category.

With the Latin community as a reference, we knew that if we could assemble a group of like-minded folks to push the inclusion of diverse African music categories using a long-game strategy, we would be able to try, learn from the misses, optimize, and try again until we found ourselves reaching our goal. We successfully saw that change greenlighted, with the [Best World Music Album] category officially being renamed to [Best Global Music Album] [in 2020].

Throughout the process of appealing to the Recording Academy to have this category added, a key factor was finding like-minded individuals within the organization to form cultural bonds, exchange knowledge, and champion the goal as a unit. We formed think tanks with key allies across the African, American and U.K. music industries, like Angelique Kidjo, Don Jazzy, John Legend, Juls, Riggs Morales, Sevi Spanoudi, Joy Wayodi, and Falu.

After the inclusion of the [Best Global Music Album] category in 2020, we were able to gauge how to collectively push for more inclusion via African music categories. I am grateful that everyone really rallied together to reach the end goal.

In general, what does the international music industry need to do to elevate and honor the African music community and industry?

I always remain an optimist [regarding] African music continuing to influence the global pop scene. With recent waves of music dominance from the current generation of African stars, like Burna Boy, CKay, Oxlade, Black Coffee, etc., I've witnessed many in the industry [mistakenly believe] that similar waves of global recognition of African Music haven't occurred in the past across genres.

I think it means more because of the way music is consumed today and how the African music business — and the business overall — has evolved. It's a lot more challenging to break acts with the attention spans of listeners being more finite now than ever before. Yet, African labels are finding their way into the current landscape.

That said, we should recognize the African icons of the past generations, like Babatunde Olatunji, Sade Adu, Ali Farka Touré, Angélique Kidjo, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, Seal, Sikiru Adepoju, Youssou N'Dour, RedOne, and more, for their wins across GRAMMY categories in the past. It's hard to imagine African music having this moment across the industry without those pioneers opening the doors in an era where it was harder than ever to gain a global audience. They still laid the groundwork, which inspired this generation — directly and indirectly.

[The Recording Academy has] always recognized the opportunities for amplification of African artists, songwriters and producers. I'm a direct witness to their advocacy, championing, and, in some cases, direct education in the past few years to ensure that gaps are bridged between African and diaspora communities and the organization. I'm excited to see the evolution that lies ahead for African music within the Recording Academy and beyond.

*Shawn Thwaites. Photo: Reid Fowler*

**Shawn Thwaites**
Project Manager, Awards, The Recording Academy 

Why is it important that the Recording Academy created the Best African Music Performance category?

African music has been a direct influence on America [and other countries]. The unique musical styles and traditions of Africa are too undiluted not to have its own category. Giving African music its own category would highlight and celebrate the diversity and richness of Africa. This is a great step forward! 

Can you tell me about the deliberations behind the scenes at the Recording Academy that led to the creation of the Best African Music Performance GRAMMY category? 

We met with African music leaders, including artists and executives, and had in-depth conversations on ideas like the name of the category. This collaboration and discussion was a valuable way to ensure that the category for African music was created and remains healthy.

**One could spend several lifetimes exploring the diversity of African music. How do you begin to boil all those sounds down to a small list of nominees?**

The Recording Academy is a peer membership organization. Tracks will be considered by the merit of a song among the voting membership, regardless of its country of origin. This process includes a listening component where screeners are carefully selected to screen the music. 

Our product eligibility period for the 2024 GRAMMYs is Oct. 1, 2022, through Sept. 15, 2023. Eligible tracks/singles include vocal and instrumental performances, with strong elements of African cultural significance that blend a stylistic intention, song structure, lyrical content and/or musical representation found in Africa and the African diaspora.

**In general, what does the international music industry need to do to elevate and honor the African music community and industry?**

By celebrating the diversity of African music, we can spread awareness through cultural exchange: more collaborations between artists of different genres and more artist relations between labels and executives in America. 

Where would you like to see the Recording Academy go from here in its global mission to support the international music community? 

By recognizing the talent and creativity of musicians from diverse backgrounds, the Recording Academy can promote greater understanding and create a more inclusive and diverse global music community. 

*Rikki Stein. Photo: Chantal Azari* 

Rikki Stein 
CEO, Kalakuta Sunrise LTD, a holding company for Knitting Factory Records and Partisan Records

Why is it important that the Recording Academy created the Best African Music Performance category?

Stein: I have long considered Africa as having a tremendous contribution to make in the world, which has yet to be seen and fully appreciated. One day, one day!

Meanwhile, the simplest and most easily accessible aspect of Africa's attributes is its cultural treasure, within which music takes pride of place. In clubs and venues throughout the world today, music from Africa is being enjoyed. Good reason, indeed, for including Best African Music Performance as a GRAMMY category!

One could spend several lifetimes exploring the diversity of African music. How do you begin to boil all those sounds down to a small list of nominees?

Stein: There are certainly a plethora of young [artists] vying for well-earned attention, but let's not forget the previous generation of artists whose music continues to delight fans across the globe.

As Fela Kuti's friend, manager and defender of his legacy, I derive great satisfaction, 25 years after his passing, from seeing the millions of monthly streams of his music. And when I look more deeply into where people are listening to his 50-album catalog, I discover it's everywhere! Khazakstan, Jakarta, Reykjavik, Osaka, as well as the more predictable U.S. and European destinations. So let's not forget the golden oldies!

In general, what does the international music industry need to do to elevate and honor the African music community and industry?

Stein: As a promoter of African music for over 50 years and having spent many of those years banging my head against a glass ceiling, I'm able to give a sigh of relief at seeing serious cracks appearing in that ludicrous structure which — who knows — may well even burst asunder and be no more!

So, let's big up the GRAMMYs and the Recording Academy for making this major contribution to its demise.

*Julian "Juls" Nicco-Annan. Photo: Dbcaptures*

Julian "Juls" Nicco-Annan 
Record producer, DJ and songwriter

Why is it important that the Recording Academy created the Best African Music Performance category?

I think it is an amazing addition to the category, given the fact that Africa has a massive impact on music and culture worldwide. It's important for the roots of African culture and sounds to be showcased on a higher stage such as the GRAMMYs to show the world how powerful and influential our sound is. African pop music and culture have been on the steady rise for the last 15 years. It's great to see the GRAMMYs finally take the step to make this happen for us and the continent.

One could spend several lifetimes exploring the diversity of African music. How do you begin to boil all those sounds down to a small list of nominees?

This is where it gets tough. People love to look at West Africa and South Africa predominantly because currently, those sides of the continent are at the forefront.

But East Africa has given birth to some incredible talent. It's important for Africans to push forward to become Recording Academy members, so they can have a voice to push their talent. Experts from different sides of the continent have to advocate. Representation is so important.

In general, what does the international music industry need to do to elevate and honor the African music community and industry?

I think a bit more research into who has been shaping the sound over the last few years is important. Engaging with many who have been documenting the journey of the genre [is important] as well. An African GRAMMYs show would be incredible. Latin America has one, and it has been incredibly successful over the years. 

This new GRAMMY category shows how the Recording Academy is truly a global entity with a global mission to support all music creators and professionals. Where would you like to see the Recording Academy go from here in its global mission to support the international music community? 

We need more members and more seminars to educate the artists and management back home about the [GRAMMY Awards] process and actually explain things properly. There's a massive disconnect — that gap should be bridged.

What are some African music albums, songs or artists you're personally enjoying right now and would like to shout out?

At the moment, Davido dropped an incredible body of work, Timeless, with the hit record "Unavailable." Worlasi from Ghana dropped a very in-depth and incredible album called The.rap.y, which touches on social issues men and women face; very deep album. I released a single with South African sensation Ami Faku called "Terrified" and J Hus' new record, "Who Told You."

Read More: 5 Artists Essential to Contemporary Soca: Machel Montano, Patrice Roberts, Voice, Skinny Fabulous, Kes The Band

*Mobolaji Kareem. Photo courtesy of EMPIRE*

**Mobolaji Kareem**
Regional Head West Africa, EMPIRE

Why is it important that the Recording Academy created the Best African Music Performance category? 

Africa has a rich and vibrant history with 54 diverse countries. There are just as many, if not more, genres of music across the continent, so it's viable to have this category as a starting point that can help define the music coming from here. With this category, a lot more artists/songs … can now have their own stage to compete and be celebrated globally. 

In general, what does the international music industry need to do to elevate and honor the African music community and industry? 

The African music landscape has exploded globally and needs to continue to be exposed to the masses to help promote inclusivity and appreciation for the art.

Every mainstream music or sporting event, radio station, and beyond should have African music as part of the program to allow for maximum impact. African voices also need to be represented and involved in the decision-making, so this is a crucial step taken by the Recording Academy to give the music coming out of this continent the exposure and reach it deserves.

What are some African music albums, songs or artists you're personally enjoying right now and would like to shout out?  

Burna Boy - Love Damini
Asake - Work of Art
Black Sherif - The Villain I Never Was
Bad Boy Timz - No Bad Boy, No Party

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It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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