As Disability Pride Month — which takes place every July — draws to a close, it's incumbent on the music community to continue elevating and celebrating music professionals with disabilities of all kinds. Below is a helpful, pragmatic guide to how we can do so — both in music-industry situations and in our everyday lives.

The following is a guest piece by Recording Artists and Music Professionals with Disabilities (RAMPD), a coalition of established creators with disabilities who work to promote equitable inclusion, visibility and accessibility in the music industry.

Having recently worked with the 64th GRAMMYs on a visible stage ramp, sign language on the red carpet, and live captioning and audio description for video content, RAMPD is on a mission to amplify Disability Culture in a massive way.

Read on as RAMPD members share key ways the music industry can support creators and creative professionals with disabilities on a year-round basis and in a meaningful manner.

1. Listen To The Disability Community

*Lachi. Photo courtesy of RAMPD.*

Lachi (Founder/President, RAMPD):

First ask. Then listen.

With 26 percent of Americans having some form of disability, neurodiversity, chronic illness or communication difference, we are a vast and diverse community full of rich, untold stories and deeply moving and impactful experiences, yet are untapped by popular culture. 

The disability community has strong perspectives on how we wish to be viewed and portrayed, but seldom have the opportunity to voice them. Thus many decisions are made about us without us and are often harmful to the community.

When planning design, programming, recruitment strategies, or anything else — even if it has nothing to do with disability — a disabled person tapped into the community must be in the room.

"But Lachi," you might say, "I don't know anyone in the music industry with a disability." Here at RAMPD, we provide resources where folks can find, source or hire top disabled talent and professionals who are knowledgeable, approachable, and present to affect growth.

*Wawa Snipe. Photo courtesy of RAMPD.*

Aoede (RAMPD, Events Co-Chair):

Encourage promoters, agents and venues to listen to artists and musicians with disabilities regarding their needs.

More than two thirds of disabled artists don't disclose due to stigmas, and report risking their health to perform. One way to remove fear of artists disclosing their disabilities is to respect an artist with disabilities' rider.

DJ Pastor Rock (RAMPD, Partnerships):

It all starts with awareness; paying attention to who is and, more importantly, who isn't there. Awareness is an important entry point for building relationships with people too often excluded.

2. Recognize Disability As A Natural And Cultural Form Of Diversity

RAMPD Community:

Disability culture is a celebration of people who identify as disabled, while acknowledging the vast diversity of the disability experience and each person's inherent and equal worth.

It is unapologetic, creative, innovative, adaptable, imaginative, and rooted in problem-solving.

It is based on the premise that disability needs to be seen, respected, included and celebrated. It includes our worldviews, our perspectives, our contributions, our art, our words, and our music.

Disability culture — at least in part — is a vibrant and thriving counter-response to the exclusion, marginalization and oppression historically and currently experienced by many disabled individuals.

*Namel Norris. Photo: Joe Papeo, 2022 Danny Awards*

Namel Norris (RAMPD, Partnerships):

One of the biggest ways the music industry can be more disability-inclusive is by getting more involved in our culture and the amazing art, performances and musical contributions we already have going on.

Zak Sandler (RAMPD, Pro Member):

We need to create an environment where disability is not hidden out of shame, but rather, celebrated out of pride. Record companies and agents must actively seek out disabled artists and ensure we represent a consistent percentage of their clients.

*Shelby Lock. Photo courtesy of Shelby Lock.*

Shelby Lock (RAMPD, Pro Member):

Evaluate people based on their skills and work ethic rather than their health status. There can be a culture of working non-stop in the music industry — especially in the studio world. Don't write us off, and we'll prove with our results that we deserve to be here too.

Leroy Moore Jr (RAMPD, Pro Member):

Let's also admit to the -isms that have locked out artists who become disabled/deaf during their career in the music industry.

***Stephen Letnes. Photo courtesy of RAMPD.***

Stephen Letnes (RAMPD, Treasurer):

Music affects and reflects what we value. Disability culture is not something new; it has always been here. The music industry can and should amplify such a powerful yet neglected part of our culture.

3. Intentional Visibility And Representation From The Stage To The Boardroom

Precious Perez (RAMPD, Memberships Chair):

Disability representation on screen is crucial. There is so much power in looking at the media and seeing yourself and your community represented.

Disability is the one diversity left out of every diversity conversation. The one minority that is not acknowledged. So many people do not understand disability — and moreover, do not see or experience disabled artists on an equal playing field.

It is for this reason that highlighting and booking disabled performers for prominent visibility opportunities is not only empowering, but deeply impactful for the general public and the industry as a whole.

*Precious Perez. Photo: Alina Nadolu*

Aoede:

Promote and implement accessibility measures at major events such as the following:

Visible ramps to the stage; visible ASL interpreter(s) and self-description; and on-stage and below-the-line representation of artists and professionals with disabilities.

Publicly announcing accessibility measures through press releases, on websites and social media is a highly encouraged way to include the disability community — while getting non-disabled viewers excited or interested in these measures.

Namel Norris:

Invest in the artists who are already making a massive impact purposefully amplifying Disability Culture all over the world.

There are also accomplished entertainment professionals who can sit on your boards to ensure disability is part of the conversation at the board level.

It's not about giving us a handout; it's about giving us a hand up. An equitable fair inclusive seat at the table in the music industry.

*Brandon Kazen-Maddox. Credit: Lincoln Center*

Brandon Kazen-Maddox (ASL Performer):

Incorporate artists from the deaf and signing community to not only translate musical events into ASL, but to work hand-in-hand with musical artists to create accessible work from the ground up.

4. Inclusive Hiring — From Behind-The-Scenes To Contractor To Executive

Andrea Jennings (RAMPD, Secretary):

Let's level the playing field for music executives, music creatives behind the scenes, musicians, and music administrators with disabilities.

We are talented professionals at every level. We are opinion leaders and want to contribute our perspective to society; however, we are often met with accessibility and pay gap barriers.

To achieve success, we need equitable solutions like accessible outreach programs, inclusive employment opportunities, paid on-the-job training, and intentional accommodation support.

Lachi:

Let's create work, event and office environments conducive to disabled people, including the over 70% with non-visible disabilities. The last thing we want is to find out that someone feared self-advocating or requesting work accommodations… in their exit interview!

5. Intentional Event And Venue Accessibility For Artists and Patrons

Aoede:

Hybrid events are a great opportunity for high-visibility events to promote inclusion and accessibility.

As a disabled artist living with chronic illness, I look entirely to virtual events to engage and connect with others in my music community.

These events allow people like me, who are unable to attend physical events (due to health risks, travel or other concerns) access to participate and be included virtually.

*Tracy Marie. Photo courtesy of RAMPD.*

Tracy Marie (RAMPD, Events):

Venues can better implement inclusive practices by simply providing a direct line on their website to a designated staff member who intakes accommodation requests.

That goes for a patron, an artist or even those interested in seeking employment. An open line of communication helps those with accessibility and accommodation needs feel welcomed.

*Gaelynn Lea. Photo: Bartek Buczkowski*

Gaelynn Lea (RAMPD, VP):

A major way the music industry can be more inclusive is by hiring accessibility coordinators on their full-time staff to ensure operations, technology, press, and policies are both inclusive and supportive of disability and that access needs are being met for both employees and customers.

Folks hired for these positions should identify as disabled themselves so that they have a personal relationship with the reality of disability, and so that they can seek input and resources from their own community when faced with an unfamiliar issue.

All too often, access is seen as a secondary concern or a bonus, when it should really be built in from the ground up.

There is a deep pool of disabled talent that could be tapped for this important work. Now, it's up to the music industry to create these positions in their organizations.

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Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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Society has made major strides in its inclusivity of people with disabilities, but it still has a long way to go. And that certainly applies to the worldwide music community — represented in part by the Recording Academy.

Disability Pride Month is observed every July; it's as good a time as ever to meditate on how disability is something most of us will experience in our lives, and that discrimination or exclusion on that basis is intolerable. 

To counteract these forces, let's use Disability Pride Month to uphold the experiences of those who live on the spectrum of disability. It's incumbent on the world's leading society of music people to shine a light on those in the music world who are part of this global community.

Let's turn positive thoughts into practical action. Here are five organizations that support music creatives with disabilities.

RAMPD

RAMPD — which stands for Recording Artists And Music Professionals With Disabilities — aims to "amplify disability culture, promote equitable inclusion and advocate for accessibility in the music industry."

The organization was founded by recording artist and accessibility advocate Lachi, who's been vocal about her journey from "low vision to no vision," and celebrating blindness through music and other avenues.

"When we celebrate hip-hop, we celebrate 50 proud years of unbreakable spirit, despite existing in a system built for otherwise," Lachi says. Hip-hop artists with disabilities and mental health conditions create from a place of innovation and drive, navigating success in a world not quite built for their success. It's up to us in the industry to support and propel those creators most impacted, most underrepresented, and most intersected, as they have the richest, most untapped, untold stories of resilience."

Visit RAMPD's website for more information.

Krip Hop Nation

Krip Hop Nation is a worldwide society of artists with disabilities that's been going strong for 16 years, and aims to provide equal opportunities in the music industry to those with disabilities.

"The focus is on people with their skills and abilities, not their disabilities," their website declares. "We do not want pity, we want consideration, equality, respect and recognition to the same extent that every physically and mentally healthy person enjoys them."

Krip Hop Nation was founded by writer, poet and activist Leroy F. Moore Jr., who was diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

"Disability justice was started by Black and brown disabled folks," Moore says, "but there’s a need to rebirth it with Black and brown Krip theory and everyday experiences in the arts, music. activism, writing and thinking."

Check out their website to get the scoop.

SoulTouchin' Experiences

Across a range of industries and spheres, SoulTouchin' Experiences aims to fortify people with disabilities' senses of autonomy and accessibility.

As the organization puts it, they have "a heart a soul commitment to those who need assistance to begin caring for themselves and in turn caring for others."

SoulTouchin' Experiences is dedicated to the issues of "access inclusion and empowerment" in all regards.

"The hustle ain’t accessible. So we hustle different," founder Keith Jones says. "We are not a fully realized movement until we are an inclusive movement."

If you share this cause, you can support them directly — and learn more about their mission — at their website.

Sins Invalid

Sins Invalid declare themselves to be a "disability justice based performance project that incubates and celebrates artists with disabilities." 

And intersectionality is the name of the game, as they're focused on "centralizing artists of color and LGBTQ / gender-variant artists as communities who have been historically marginalized."

"Disability Justice is an honoring of the long-standing legacies of resilience and resistance," says co-founder Patty Berne, "which are the inheritance of all of us whose bodies or minds will not conform."

They do this by promoting leadership opportunities for disabled people and providing a nurturing space for artists with disabilities to develop and present artistic works. For more information on Sins Invalid, visit here.

4 Wheel City

Here's how they roll: 4 Wheel City is an entertainment organization offering support to people with disabilities of all stripes.

They were founded by Namel "Tapwaterz" Norris and Ricardo "Rickfire" Velasquez — hip-hop artists in wheelchairs due to the tragedy of gun violence.

Rather than let their circumstances subsume them, though, they've opted to give back via programs that connect hip-hop to disability culture.

"To me, hip hop culture and disability culture are interconnected and one in the same. They both come from underserved communities who've had to fight for their respect, for their place in society," Norris says. "However, as we celebrate 50 years of hip hop, the voices and contributions of many disabled hip hop artists continue to go unheard. The goal is to change this so the next 50 years of hip hop includes many more stories and music from disabled artists like myself."

Check out their website here.

With folks like Norris and Velasquez — and everyone else above — in the disability community's corner, the needle of disability justice is pushed ever forward.

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It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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