NEIL FRANCES was formed practically by accident. 

The Los Angeles-based dream pop duo of Aussie DJ/producer Jordan Feller and Southern Californian singer/songwriter Marc Gilfry first linked up in 2016 with hopes to write music for other artists. While they struggled to find artists to sing their tunes, but their fate was sealed when KCRW radio DJ Chris Douridas played one of their SoundCloud demos live on air.

Seven years later, NEIL FRANCES' dreams have come together and expanded on their lively, funky sophomore album, It's All a Bit Fuzzy. While leaning into a dance pop sound, NEIL FRANCES' latest highlights their penchant for collaboration, their love of indie and dance music, and open creative approach. 

It's All a Bit Fuzzy was inspired by the feeling after a great night out with friends, and its eclectic mix of layered, infectious tunes begs for multiple replays. All three of their collaborators reflect this feeling, effortlessly expanding NEIL FRANCES' sunset-hued sound. There are two tracks — one chill, one hype mode — with St. Panther, a killer '80s funk throwback with dreamcastmoe, and the dreamy "High" with PawPaw Rod.

Calling in from their studio in Los Angeles, Feller and Gilfry serendipitously embody this mood, tired from a late night of rehearsal for their imminent tour, yet bubbling with excitement to talk about anything music-related. They're the type of people you could find yourself talking to for hours at a party about music, always run into on the dancefloor, and really make you want to maybe even get into the studio yourself.

"The best song is something that reveals itself over and over again to both the listener and the artist," Gilfry muses. "We'll start with something specific, but there will be times where we'll be performing on stage and I'll think about a lyric in a completely different way. Good songs are these little beings, these constantly evolving animals."

Read on to hear from NEIL FRANCES about their new album, their favorite collaborative songwriting method, the artist they're digging right now (with some stellar deep cuts) and much more.

This interview has been edited for clarity.

What were you feeling going into working on It's All a Bit Fuzzy? How did the storyline and vibe come together and evolve as you worked on it?

Marc Gilfry: When we started we thought we were gonna do all collabs. We had just finished our previous album, which was very concept heavy. We told a rough narrative through the lyrics about this insect who was down on his luck and then ascends and transcends. We took that idea and ran with it and made a poem out of the song titles — it was a huge undertaking.

You don't ever really follow your plan to the tee. So, we do have quite a bit of collaborations on this one, and they're all amazing songs, but we continued to write [on our own]. Then I stumbled upon this Spanish digital painter named Angela Bacher on Instagram and she's created all these really cool, fuzzy warm but a-little-bit-sinister characters. I showed Jordan the artwork and we were inspired by it to name the album It's All a Bit Fuzzy.

Then we wrote [the opening] song called "It's All a Bit Fuzzy" and did a whole aesthetic campaign around the idea. So, we kind of reverse-engineered it a little bit. And to be perfectly frank, we didn't have that song written when we created a bunch of merch. It was the very last song that we wrote.

Jordan Feller: I think musically [it's different] as well. We got the chance over the last year or so since we put out the first record to play shows and see what other people are doing and the music that DJs are playing. I come from the electronic space and we've noticed that everything's kind of picked up tempo in that world. I feel electronic music as a whole is always kind of ahead of everything else in a cool way. I'm always influenced by that musically. 

I would say this record is potentially more electronic-leaning than the first one and where we initially started from. Who's to say that carries over into what we do next, but [on this album there's] some faster tempos, which is fun to experiment with. I had this threshold that we could never make anything over 120 BPM and I started pushing the tempo a little bit faster. How do we write something that's as fast as what some of these DJs are playing but still has verses and choruses? It's been a fun process to kind of dance around that world. 

I'm interested in hearing more about the different sonic elements of the album.

Feller: There are a lot of referential moments on this album. If we're going to do the '90s house-leaning thing, I definitely want someone that's representing the culture that sound came from. So, on "Let's Break It Down," we'd already worked with St. Panther and got them on that record. 

In my opinion, if you're gonna do ['90s style house], you've got to use 909 drum sounds and the Korg M1 piano sound, with a rhythmic piano line that maybe you've heard before but you haven't quite heard before. The particular style of the chords have to evoke that sort of minor feeling but at the same time makes you want to party, like melancholy happiness.

"Gimme" is probably one of my favorites on the record. We try to always push ourselves out of writing cute indie jams which is a bit of a comfort zone. I love that we pushed that song to 134 BPM. I found a technique that I'd never used before where I would slow the song down, record [Marc's] vocals and then speed the song and vocals back up at the same time. 

The pitch up effect of staying in tune with the song kind of sounds like Detroit Grand Pubah's "Sandwiches." It's a standard effect, don't get me wrong, a bunch of people have done this. 

On "She's Just the Type of Girl" with dreamcastmoe, I felt some funky Rick James energy.

Feller: Davon [a.k.a. dreamcastmoe] showed me the [original] song from a band by the name of Circuitry out of Washington D.C. from the 1980s. It's a big sample; I've never sampled as much of someone else's music. I didn't want to get in the way of the creative process with dreamcastmoe. We were playing records [for each other] and I was like, "Man, this is so sick. I can't believe I've never heard it before." We just riffed on it and thankfully Electro Wayne, whose uncle wrote the music, let us basically get on his uncle's song.

Can you speak to working with St. Panther and the message of LGBTQ+ support on "Let's Break It Down"?

Feller: When we finally got the chance to connect, I had a laugh because they left me on read when I reached out over Instagram three years ago, which Danny came up with some excuse for. I had a few beats that I played to Danny and they more or less went down the same path that Marc and I do where we sort of freestyle ideas back and forth. "Head Straight" came together really quickly.

I also had "Let's Break it Down" for a while, which got sort of buried in tempo a couple of times. By pure happenstance, I did the speed up thing again, and it went into the same key as Madonna's "Vogue." A little part of it was influenced by my relationship with my brother. When he came out, I wanted him to feel comfortable to do so, [for him to know] it's a safe space. And like I said, if we're going to do the '90s house, I don't just want to jump into the pool and jump out. I'll go all the way with not only sounds representing that era of music, but somebody from that community that can speak to it legitimately. It was another very quick session [with St. Panther].

Gilfry: To add to that, I love being in the safe space of a club. I think we feel a lot more liberated when everyone can be themselves and feel accepted and open. We wanted to kind of write an homage to that experience of being in a place where people are liberated and happy to be themselves. 

You mentioned in the album's press release that "Gimme" was inspired by San Francisco's Portola Festival last year. Paint that picture for me.

Feller: We saw Peggy Gou into Floating Points and Four Tet. I was tapping out their tempos and they were like 138 BPM but it was still accessible. It made me want to write a song up here. When we play mid-tempo songs live, sometimes if the people don't know the songs, they kind of stand there, which is strange for me coming from the DJ space. Why don't we give people body music that's going to move you in a physical way even if you don't know it? That was a cool experiment to see if we could still apply traditional songwriting techniques to what could otherwise be a pretty linear-sounding electro house or techno banger.

We ended up adding a lot of live drums [on "Gimme."] I sent the original song with just an 808 drum kit on it to a buddy of mine. He's like, "Dude, this is sick, but you should lean in and try to make it sound live." Three or four songs on the record have [our drummer] Rhythm on it to give it a little bit more life than just an electronic drum kit. "Gimme" is a really good cross section of everything that we do, from electronic stuff to drum machines to guitars, bass guitars; kitchen sink and all.

Gilfry: There's another song on the album, "Some Kind of Static," which paints the picture of us being at Portola last year. We had a great group of friends we were rolling around with that I'm talking about in the song. Sissy is Sophia, Jordan's girlfriend. We call her Sissy because we joke about Jordan being daddy, and she and I are sisters. It's a little demented inside joke. The alien in the song is my wife Mariel. She was wearing this reflective puffy jacket that every time we took a picture it would suck up all the flash.

Feller: I always say this, but years ago, Marc and I read Nile Rodgers' book where he goes on about DHM (Deep Hidden Meaning). Chic's "Freak Out" was originally "F— Off" because Studio 54 wouldn't let them in. We kind of write by that theory.

How does your songwriting process usually go?

Gilfry: It's such a crapshoot. There's plenty of songs where Jordan's yelling out the lyrics to me as I'm singing. There're other songs where I've got a whole pre-written 20 verses and choruses and I bring that in. Or we'll be in the middle of writing something and I'll be referencing a dream that I've written in my notes.

Are you always writing things down as you get inspiration?

Gilfry: I write a lot of haikus because I think it's a good discipline to be forced to stay within a syllabic kind of structure. It's good for practice. Not to get too arty farty, but I like the Jack Kerouac method of keeping constant notes on everything and then sitting down once you're ready to write you have it all and you compile and finesse. I'm trying to write all day, every day, everywhere. And I've got a ton of voice notes and voice memos for that reason too. 

I like that. When you're working on music, do you find that you're more creative when you're together, like fun stuff happens when you're bouncing off of each other? 

Gilfry: I'm more creative with him. I don't think he's more creative with me. He tries to kick me out, like "You're done. Thanks. See you tomorrow." I'll come in here by myself and will spend eight hours and I'll have nothing. 

Feller: The fastest, most efficient method of writing for us — this isn't always the way that we do it — is me presenting something that I'm really excited about and we'll put a microphone in front of Marc, first listen. We stay open to anything, yes to everything and spit out ideas. Give me everything. Then I organize all the stuff into what I think are the best bits and then we come in and we both finesse it into a finished state.

Gilfry: The first listen, first take thing is really important to me. Jordan will start showing me something and I'll be like, "Wait, wait, don't play it!" There's something about hearing something unfold in real time and working off of that and singing whatever comes to mind. It's hard to get that after the first listen.

When did you make the decision to make music together as NEIL FRANCES instead of songwrite for other artists?

Gilfry: We actually never did. We sent  a couple of songs to a few vocalists and that didn't end up panning out. We showed what we had done to a few of our close confidants and they're like, "Hey, this is really good, you should just put this out." 

Our mutual booking agent at the time — I was in another band and Jordan was DJing — shared our SoundCloud link of demos with the KCRW DJ Chris Douridas. Chris ripped it off of SoundCloud and played it on the radio. And then we were like, This is worth pursuing.

Feller: We did a School Night during the pandemic with Chris and told him the story. He didn't even remember. I told him, "Dude, you're literally the reason that we're a band. We tell this story all the time." 

Given that this album was originally going to be all collabs, what are some of your dream collabs that haven't happened yet?

Gilfry: I can never think of anyone when I get this question. I always say Unknown Mortal Orchestra. I would love to work with them, I'm a total fanboy of UML and Ruban [Nielson]. If we weren't doing this, that would be the exact kind of music I would want to be making. 

Feller: Kylie Minogue. 

Gilfry: Geez, that would be amazing. Robin. Cleo Sol. 

Feller: Little Simz. I'm really a big fan of everything that's happening in the UK at the moment where all of a sudden, UK drill and UK rap music is as big as it is. There's something about that hard East London vocal tone. And that new soul stuff that's happening over there with Inflo producing all of Little Simz and Cleo Sol. The Jungle guys are a part of that whole crew as well. That whole set is doing cool music that I'd like to have the opportunity to work with for sure. 

Who are some other artists also making funky music that you're really vibing to right now?

Gilfry: Jungle is really putting out some great music, especially the new stuff. I'm a huge fan of his band Cruza out of Florida. They're kind of lo-fi R&B. Just really vibey, downtempo with interesting mixes and production approach. Going back to the indie rock world, I love Hether out of Orange County. He's a classically trained jazz guitarist writing these really cool indie tunes now. 

Feller: PawPaw Rod's new one is really good. There's this crew out of Bristol that I'm loving called 1905 [thathas a release on] Former City Records of these party breaks that work great in a club and in your car. Parallel Dance Ensemble's this crew out of New Zealand with this Danish producer [Roblin Hannibal] who do basically like a new-school ESG…and Tom Tom Club. deem spencer's new record's great, Marc's been a fan of him for a while. 

This is a deep cut, but there's this Italian model from the '80s that Giorgio Moroder produced named Vivien Vee. She has a song called "Destiny," which if it was released now would be the most forward-thinking pop tune. Blue Hawaii's stuff is really cool. Also, St. Panther. 

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Since Mike Piacentini’s switch from computer science to audio engineering in college, his family has been his biggest champions. So, when he received his nomination for Best Immersive Album for Madison Beer's pop album Silence Between Songs, at the 2024 GRAMMYs, it was a no-brainer to invite his parents and wife.

“He’s always been into music. He had his own band, so [the shift] wasn’t surprising at all,” Piacentini’s mother says in the newest episode of Family Matters. “He’s very talented. I knew one day he would be here. It’s great to see it actually happen.”

In homage to his parents’ support, Piacentini offered to let his father write a short but simple acceptance in case he won: “Thank you, Mom and Dad,” he jokes.

Alongside his blood relatives, Piacentini also had support from his colleague Sean Brennan. "It's a tremendous honor, especially to be here with [Piacentini]. We work day in and day out in the studio," Brennan explains. "He's someone who's always there."

Press play on the video above to learn more about Mike Piacentini's support system, and remember to check back to GRAMMY.com for more new episodes of Family Matters.

How Madison Beer Broke Free From Pressures Of Internet Fame & Created Her New Album 'Silence Between Songs'

It's fair to say that the 1980s hadn't been particularly kind to country legend Johnny Cash. Once considered the Don of the Nashville scene, the singer/songwriter suddenly found himself dropped by Columbia Records, recording terrible parody songs (remember "The Chicken in Black"?), and addicted to painkillers after a bizarre accident in which he was kicked by an ostrich.

But as the new decade approached, Cash's reputation gradually started to recover. A 1988 tribute album, 'Til Things Are Brighter, alerted a much younger indie generation of his catalog of classics. He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992. And then arguably the biggest band in the world at the time, U2, invited him to take lead vocals on Zooropa's post-apocalyptic closer "The Wanderer." The scene was set for a triumphant comeback, and on 1994's American Recordings, the Man in Black duly obliged.

The Rick Rubin-produced album was far from a one-off. Cash delivered three American follow-ups in his lifetime (1996's Unchained, 2000's Solitary Man, and 2002's The Man Comes Around). And two posthumous volumes (2006's A Hundred Highways, 2010's Ain't No Grave)  further bridged the gap between his statuses as country outlaw and elder statesman — and helped further his legacy as one of country's all-time greats.

As the first American Recordings installment celebrates its 30th anniversary, here's a look at how the series deservedly rejuvenated the career of an American recording legend.

It United Him With A New Muse 

Best known for his pioneering work with Run-D.M.C., Beastie Boys, and Public Enemy, Rick Rubin seemed an unusual fit for a sixty-something country singer whose glory days were considered decades behind him. But left spellbound by Cash's performance at a Bob Dylan anniversary gig in 1992, the superproducer offered to make the Nashville legend a superstar once more.

Cash took some persuading, but eventually agreed to join forces on the assurance he'd be in the creative driving seat, and a new unlikely dream team was born. Rubin lent his talents to all six volumes of American Recordings — co-producing the middle two with Cash's son John Carter Cash – and won the first GRAMMY of his career for his efforts. The Def Jam co-founder would also later work his magic with several other '60s heroes including Neil Diamond, Yusuf and Neil Young.

It Saw Cash Lean Into Contemporary Music More Than Ever

Cash had never been averse to tackling contemporary material. He covered Bruce Springsteen's "Highway Patrolman" in 1983, just a year after it appeared on The Boss' Nebraska. But the American Recordings series saw the Man in Black embrace the sounds du jour like never before, whether the grunge of Soundgarden's "Rusty Cage," electro-blues of Depeche Mode's "Personal Jesus," or most famously, industrial rock of Nine Inch Nails' "Hurt."

On paper, this could have been nothing short of a disaster, the sign of an aging artist desperately latching onto a much younger musical generation in a transparent bid for relevancy. But instead, Cash elevates the Gen X classics into modern hymns, his sonorous voice injecting a sense of gravitas and Rubin's production stripping things back to their bare but compelling essentials. Far from an embarrassing grandad act, this was the sound of a man respectfully making the source material his own.

It Returned Cash To The Charts 

Cash had reached the lower end of the Billboard 200 in the '80s as part of supergroups The Highwaymen and Class of '55. But you had to go all the way back to 1976's One Piece at a Time to find his last entry as a solo artist. The American Recordings series, however, slowly but surely restored the Man in Black to his former chart glories.

Indeed, while its first two volumes charted at numbers 110 and 170 respectively, the third peaked at a slightly more impressive 88 and the fourth at 22, his highest position since 1970's Hello, I'm Johnny Cash. The posthumous fifth entry, meanwhile, went all the way to No. 1, remarkably the first time ever the country legend had achieved such a feat with a studio effort (live album At San Quentin had previously topped the charts in 1971).

"Hurt" also became Cash's first solo US country hit in 14 years in 2003. And while it only landed at No. 56 on Billboard's Hot Country Songs chart, it remains Cash's most-streamed song to date with over 600 million streams on Spotify alone.

It Included Masterful Collaborators 

As well as handing over the producer reins to Rubin, Cash also surrounded himself with some of the rock world's finest musicians. Tom Petty, Red Hot Chili Peppers' Flea, and Fleetwood Mac's Lindsey Buckingham and Mick Fleetwood all lent their considerable talents to Unchained. Sheryl Crow and Will Oldham did the same on Solitary Man, while Nick Cave, Fiona Apple and Don Henley joined him in the studio on The Man Comes Around.

But Cash also kept things more traditional by recruiting fellow country legend Merle Haggard, 'fifth Beatle'Billy Preston, and "Ballad of a Teenage Queen" songwriter Jack Clement, while the presence of wifeJune Carter Cash and son John made the third American Recordings something of a family affair.

It Went Back To Basics 

While American Recordings was, in many respects, Cash's most forward-thinking album, it wasn't afraid to keep one foot in the past, either. For one, the star recorded most of its first volume in his Tennessee cabin armed with only a guitar, a throwback to his 1950s beginnings with first producer Sam Phillips.

Cash also trawled through his own back catalog for inspiration, re-recording several tracks he believed had unfairly gone under the radar including 1955 single "Mean Eyed Cat," murder ballad "Delia's Gone" from 1962's The Sound of Johnny Cash, and "I'm Leaving Now" from 1985's Rainbow.

It Proved He Was Still A Masterful Songwriter…

Although Cash's unlikely covers grabbed most of the attention, the American Recordings series showed that his stellar songwriting skills remained intact throughout his later years, too. "Meet Me in Heaven," for example, is a beautifully poignant tribute to the older brother who died at just 15, while the folksy "Let the Train Blow the Whistle" added to Cash's arsenal of railroad anthems.

"Drive On," meanwhile, is worthy of gracing any Best Of compilation, a powerful lament to those who came back from the Vietnam War with both emotional and physical scars ("And even now, every time I dream/ I hear the men and the monkeys in the jungle scream").

…And Still A Master Interpreter 

As well as putting new spins on his own songs and various contemporary rock favorites, Cash further displayed both his interpretive and curatorial skills by covering a variety of spirituals, standards and pop hits first released during his commercial heyday.

The likes of early 19th century gospel "Wayfaring Stranger," wartime favorite "We'll Meet Again," and Simon and Garfunkel's "Bridge Over Troubled Water" may have been firmly in Cash's wheelhouse. But more leftfield choices such as Loudon Wainwright III's offbeat morality tale "The Man Who Couldn't Cry" proved that even when outside his comfort zone, he could stamp his own identity with aplomb.

It Made Him An Unlikely MTV Star 

Cash was 62 years old when American Recordings hit the shelves — not exactly a prime age for MTV play. Yet thanks to some inspired creative decisions, the career-reviving series spawned two videos that received regular rotation on the network. Firstly, "Delia's Gone" caught attention for two major reasons: it was directed by Anton Corbijn, the man renowned for his long-running creative partnership with Depeche Mode, and it starred Kate Moss, the world's biggest supermodel at the time, as the titular victim.  

Then nine years later, Cash picked up six nominations — winning Best Cinematography — at the MTV Video Music Awards thanks to Mark Romanek's emotionally devastating treatment for "Hurt." Interspersing clips of the clearly fragile country singer at the rundown Museum of Cash with footage from his earlier days and artistic shots of decaying fruits and flowers, the promo perfectly embodied the transient nature of life. And it had the capacity to reduce even the hardest of hearts to tears.

It Added To His GRAMMY Haul 

Cash won almost as many GRAMMYs with his American Recordings series as he had during the previous 40 years of his career. The Man in Black first added to his trophy collection in 1995 when the first volume won Best Contemporary Folk Album. This was the first time he'd been recognized at the ceremony for his musical talents since the June Carter Cash duet "If I Were A Carpenter" won Best Country Performance for a Duo or Group with Vocal back in 1971  

Three years later, Unchained was crowned Best Country Album. And after picking up a Lifetime Achievement Award in 1999, Cash won 2001's Best Male Country Vocal Performance for "Solitary Man," then again in the same Category for "Give My Love to Rose"in 2003. He posthumously won two more GRAMMYs for Best Short Form Video, in 2004 for "Hurt" and in 2008 for "God's Gonna Cut You Down." In total, the American Recordings series won Cash six more GRAMMYs, bringing his overall count to 13. 

It Was A Powerful Epitaph

In 1997, Cash was told he'd just 18 months to live after being misdiagnosed with neurodegenerative condition Shy-Drager syndrome (later changed to autonomic neuropathy). He ended up outliving this prognosis by a good four years, but during this period, he lost the love of his life and was forced to record his swansong in-between lengthy stints in the hospital.  

Little wonder, therefore, that the American Recordings series is defined by the theme of mortality: see "The Man Comes Around," a biblical ode to the Grim Reaper ("And I looked, and behold a pale horse/ And his name that sat on him was death, and hell followed with him"), Death Row anthem "The Mercy Seat," and funeral favorite "Danny Boy." As with David Bowie's Blackstar, Cash was able to reflect on his impermanence in his own terms in a sobering, yet compelling manner that continues to resonate decades on. 

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Jon Batiste walked into the 2022 GRAMMYs with a whopping 11 nominations, making him the most recognized artist of the evening. By the end of the night, he received five GRAMMYs for Best American Roots Performance, Best American Roots Song, Best Score Soundtrack For Visual Media, Best Music Video, and the highly coveted Album Of The Year.

In this episode of GRAMMY Rewind, watch Batiste take the stage to accept the award for Album Of The Year for his sixth studio album, We Are

Batiste began his praises by acknowledging God: "I just put my head down and work on the craft every day. I love music, he said. "I've been playing since I was a little boy. It's more than entertainment for me — it's a spiritual practice." He also thanked the "many people that went into making this album," including his grandfather, nephew, father, and executive producer, Ryan Lynn.

"This [award] is for real artists, real musicians. Let's just keep going. Be you! That's it. I love you even if I don't know you," Batiste cheered.

Press play on the video above to hear Jon Batiste's complete acceptance speech and check back to GRAMMY.com for more new episodes of GRAMMY Rewind.

Watch: Jon Batiste Delivers A Heartfelt Performance Of “Ain’t No Sunshine” & “Lean On Me” | 2024 GRAMMYs Performance

When Wyatt Flores released his second EP, Half Life, on April 19, he ended his celebratory Instagram post with one simple wish: "I hope these songs make you feel something."

That's been Flores' mantra since the rising country singer first began releasing music just three years ago. Hailed as one of the genre's most honest new stars, Flores speaks his truth in his red dirt music, on stage, and on social media. As Half Life showcases, he's unafraid to broach life's toughest topics, from suicidal thoughts on "Devil" to a complicated relationship with religion on "I Believe In God."

"I like to keep it very based on what I felt, and just try and go for that emotion," Flores says of his music. "If you can somehow captivate [listeners] in the story and make them feel the emotion through the song, then you've done your job. I guess that's all I'm after."

His unabashed vulnerability has made his music resonate widely — and fast. In 2023, Flores went from playing for hundreds to thousands in a matter of months, garnering more than 325 million global streams and more than 13 million TikTok likes along the way. He consistently uses his rapidly growing platform to champion self-care and mental health, even taking a brief tour hiatus in February to get himself back on track.

Two months later, Flores assures that he's feeling rejuvenated and healthier than ever, sparking some happier tunes that even caught him by surprise (more on that later). He'll spend the summer playing a mix of headlining shows, festival stages and a few supporting slots for Mitski, first kicking things off with his debut at Stagecoach on April 26.

As Flores gears up for tour, he sat down with GRAMMY.com during some time off in his native Oklahoma to chat about his remarkable rise, the complexities of being so vulnerable, and how he feels like he's getting the "best of both worlds."

Do you remember the first show that you were like, "What is happening?"

Yeah, it was Asheville, North Carolina. It was either the last week of April last year or the first week of May, I can't quite remember. But that was my first ever sold-out headline show. I think the venue cap was like 550, and they were screaming so loud that I got off stage and I was like, "Did anyone feel like there was a trash can going off in their ear?" And then my bass player, Bill, was like, "No, that's the last time you'll hear that frequency." 

That was where everything changed. It kind of started making me realize how real this was getting. Then, everywhere we went, [it was a] sold-out crowd, and they're excited as all get out. I literally thought that I was living a dream. 

I played at, you know, the s—iest hole in the walls you could ever imagine. I just thought I was gonna be there forever. Honestly, I was still having fun doing that. But I just couldn't believe the dramatic change that happened.

At what point did it actually feel real?

It was probably when we played Dallas [in December of] last year. That was the biggest room that we'd ever played. I was like, 3,000 people bought tickets to show up to my show. And then I just kind of had to kind of process like what was actually going on. I kept questioning it for the longest time, but that night it was just different.

We had just played in Fort Worth, like, three months [before that], and that was 600 people. So when we played Dallas, that was when I just looked at the crowd and I was like, Okay, this is it.

That's interesting, because you had to cancel a stretch of shows not long after that. Was that kind of all correlating — taking it in, but being overwhelmed from all of it?

Yeah, because there's a lot of things that went on in my life that I never took the time to process, and that was one of the first things — being like, This is my life from now on. And I think that's what I liked about the Life Lessons project so much, was giving listeners an inside view on what it looks like to be on this side of the fence. Because everyone thinks that it's gotta be the most wild thing to be an artist, but I don't think they realize what comes with it. 

I'm still sitting here going, I shouldn't be on this interview with you. I don't deserve it. Like, I don't have the cool style, I show up in sweatshirts and s—ty Adidas shoes. I don't put myself on a pedestal.

I've never wanted to become something I'm not, and that's kind of been the hard point. Because, you know, you got folks from the hometown [saying], "Don't forget who you are!" And then all of a sudden you get lost in all of it. And then you're sitting there going, Do I even know who I am? 

Making some healthier changes kind of opened up some other wounds that I bottled up. I never processed my grandpa's death, and at the same time that that was all going down, I was also firing management — which, they say in Nashville, the manager should be the one person that you do trust. 

I took one week off so I could come back for [my grandpa's] funeral, and had to delay some shows there. And then I was homeless for two weeks from another situation. But I was like, Nope, I'm just gonna work my ass off. I'm just gonna show up, do what I need to do. And I never took the time to actually look at anything that had happened. And that's kind of where the falloff went, because I was just trying to survive the chaos.

I'm sure it's hard being in the spotlight period while  going through so much  at the same time.

For a while, there were certain things that I did not like about myself. [I felt like I was] changing personalities. I know most people can't see it, but that was something that I was struggling with. Everyone was seeing how happy I was through social media — because I'm not afraid to post the silly s— that goes down on the road; me being a jackass in the van or something like that — but then people expected that from me. 

I had to fully come to terms with, wherever I am in my heart, that's who I am right there in that moment. I don't have to portray this image that people see just because we post it on social media.

I also think it's amazing to have the platform you do and be so honest about how you're feeling. Because it's probably healing for you, but also going to be healing for the people who see it — even if it's challenging and really personal to admit.

I put down my phone for a really long time, which was one of the best things ever. [Laughs.] I came back and I went through my DMs. People were like, "Thank you for saying something because I finally had the encouragement to say something to my wife" or something else. I'm glad that it gave people the encouragement to speak up, because if I don't, then how will they? 

I look at my fans, and I'm blessed. There's no better fan base, they're the sweetest people ever. They are diehard fans, but they talk to me like I'm their friend, like they've known me forever. For them to trust someone enough to say something [about] how they feel or what's going on in their lives, that means the absolute world to me.

Clearly that means that what you bring to the table is what your fans are also going to bring to the table for you.

One of the things that I've been trying to work through, is realizing that I can listen to their problems, but I can't take their problems with me. And that was something that I had to learn. I was like, I can't do that to myself, or I'm gonna plummet.

There was a time when we were in Colorado, and someone had sent me these messages [about this girl], and I ended up looking [her] up. She was an eighth grade girl, and the last video she had posted on TikTok was of "Please Don't Go." She'd committed suicide a month after she had posted that. Her mom was trying to raise attention towards bullying and things like that. 

It was hard for us. But we had to look at it through a new perspective. And it's like, we can't change someone's decision, as badly as you want to. And we try and look at it from this perspective of, How long did that song keep them here? Time is valuable, and even if it was for another month, at least it kept them here just a little bit longer, kept them through the fight. Even though you don't always win.

We're not just out here playing music. I still love the party songs. "West of Tulsa" is always fun to look out in the crowd, and they're having a great time. But we're not just playing music because we're here to distract people from their problems. We're lucky enough that we do get to save lives, and we get to do it through music. But it's also one of those things where I'm sitting there going, I'm a 22-year-old kid from Oklahoma, and I have this power. Am I going to use it correctly?

Now that you know that your music is so powerful to so many people, has it changed the way that you approach your songwriting?

A little bit. You know, the songs that I write are songs that I feel. I'm ADHD as all get out, so when I show up to write, it's whatever I'm feeling that day. But yeah, there's a little bit in the back of my head that says, Watch out for something like this, you don't want to say the wrong message here. 

I want to write these songs that are sad, that are very dark, and lost is kind of the feeling. Because I want people to see that I've gone through it, so that way, they can get a better understanding that they're not the only one. 

My inspiration was to be the artist that had those songs that kind of pulled me through my stuff. There's all sorts of jokes and like memes about when the song doesn't hit you hard enough the first time so you play it again, or, like, when you're sitting in a vehicle after you've already gotten home but you sit there until the song ends. That was always kind of a goal for me. I was like, I want to be that song that kind of helps them get through the next day. 

That's the way I kind of look at it when I play these shows. And I sit back and I look at the crowd, and I'm like, I get to be a part of y'all's lives every single day, and that is the coolest thing that I've ever done.

It's funny, there's always that interview question like, "What are your goals?" but it sounds like you've already accomplished the main one. 

Oh, absolutely. I've been having to find new goals because I've lived my dream. Like, if I died tomorrow, I'd hang my hat proudly. I've helped people, I've played all the venues — well, I guess I haven't played Red Rocks yet. That's coming up, though.

I'm still thinking, because it's just now finally hit me that, like, You've kind of done the damn thing. So it's like, What do you want to do now? I have all these wild ideas. I usually throw out some out of pocket s— and then I let someone else come up with if it's gonna work or not. My business manager hates me. [Laughs.]

Were you raised to be so connected with your feelings, or was it just kind of an innate thing for you?

I think I always felt out of place wherever I was. I was always kind of the weird kid. My friends hated me because I started talking about sappy s—. I'd want to have deep, meaningful conversations and sometimes they'd be like, "Would you just shut up?" [Laughs.]

But what I realized is that I'm very big on connection. At some point, not fitting in and being different kind of all changed for me. I was like, I can't change it, so I might as well be it.

Have you ever questioned how honest you're being in your music? 

For the most part, I don't try and hold back. In some ways, it is scary, but in other ways, it's kind of just telling your truth so people don't get shocked by something that you do.

For the first time, I'm writing happier songs. And I'm skeptical to see how people take that. I mean, I've had Life Lessons and stuff like that, but yeah, this is definitely a weird time in my life where I'm like, I'm writing happy songs, and I don't even know how to feel about it. Now, I'm like, How do I share happiness? How do I contain that idea, and that emotion, and put it into a song so it comes out to the listener and they feel it?

You're allowed to be happy! And with everything that's been happening for you lately, I'm not surprised you're happy.

[Fans] always say "We made the right person famous." It's been two short years of really doing this thing. And we're blessed.

I freakin' love playing live, I just had other things going on in the background that I never took time [to process]. For a while, I wanted to blame a lot of things that wasn't it. And then, I went to Onsite [Workshops, a therapy, counseling and wellness retreat center in Tennessee] for like a week and got my head back to normal. 

Playing live is what makes it all worth it. I knew that I was going to have to work for this, and I'm getting to see the fruits of my labor. I'm finally getting some time off. I'm getting to actually spend some quality time, but I at least now know how to have quality time in the healthiest way. Because for a while, I couldn't shut the other brain off. I'd come home and I was still somewhere else. 

I can't believe that I get the best of both worlds. That usually doesn't happen where you get your cake and eat it too. S—, I might go fishing later! I get to be on the road, play to thousands of people, and then I get to go fishing? I think the only thing that's missing is I don't have a boat. Man, I just might have to weld me one.  

Meet Charles Wesley Godwin, The Rising Country Singer Who's Turning "A Very Human Story" Into Stardom