(The Making Of GRAMMY-Winning Recordings series presents firsthand accounts of the creative process behind some of music's biggest recordings. In this installment, Hillary Scott of Hillary Scott & The Scott Family details the making of Love Remains, which won Best Contemporary Christian Music Album at the 59th GRAMMY Awards, and "Thy Will," which won Best Contemporary Christian Performance/Song.)

What began as a way for my family to say thank you to the almost 300 people who cared for us around the time of my grandfather's death took on such a transformation over the life of the project. [Love Remains] was my father's idea, and he told me about it at lunch one day in Nashville, Tenn. Following the loss of his father, he had a journey through grief and wanted to do something in return for his supporters. He asked if I could get permission from my label to be part of it. I told him I would be honored, but I needed to pray about it and talk to my husband Chris [Tyrrell].

A few weeks later, I said, "Daddy, I'm all in, but I want to bring in the team and I want us to imagine making a record for the world to hear." That was the first transformation. We weren't sure how many people would hear it, so it really was the truest definition of a passion project.

As I thought about the process of the album coming together, I envisioned [producer] Ricky Skaggs as captain, steering the wheel of the ship. He had a very busy year, but I prayed about it and knew God would make it possible. We had little miracles like that happen along the way.

Every aspect of the process was an incredible experience, so getting to GRAMMY night was a culmination of all of it. My parents, sister and I were floating around after our wins. We were in shock, and had the most humble awe. In a way it was bittersweet, thinking about the ups and downs of life that went into this album. But ultimately, the blessing was getting to share it together. My dad and mom have always worked hard in their lives and careers, so being able to hand my dad a GRAMMY was really special. I can hardly say that sentence without crying.

I wrote "Thy Will" with [songwriters] Bernie Herms and Emily Weisband. It was our first, and unfortunately, so far, only writing session. I was walking through a miscarriage at the time, and I shared my heart and my story with them. I talked about what God was showing me in the midst of the grief. That song has so much of me in it, but there's just as much of them. They were the perfect people to write that song with, because Bernie is such an incredible pianist who plays with such emotion. And Emily has an incredible ability for vocal melody and lyrics. It was meant to be.

Onstage at the GRAMMYs, Bernie said that with some songs the writers become a pass through for a greater message. And that's how it was for "Thy Will." As personal as the song is, it's also universal, because "Thy will be done" can mean anything. It's about submitting to God's plan for your life.

Bernie co-produced the track with Ricky, which was a beautiful pairing. A majority of my vocal on that song is from the day we wrote it. Still today, I get emotional when I listen to it. I was at my rawest place when I sang those words for the first time. And now, over a year healed from it, I'm thankful to hear stories about how this song is touching so many people. There is beauty from the ashes. We all want to know that the valleys of our life have a purpose. Now I get to see the beauty, and how it's connecting and helping others. That's the reward.

It's been a life-changing season of my career and life. The beautiful thing is God meets you in the valleys and the mountains. After making Love Remains, I became a champion for songs that are in your fiber. I could no longer settle for "just OK" from the standpoint of the lyric, melody or production. And after each of us members of Lady Antebellum took a break to pursue our own individual passions, we brought renewed passion back to the band for our new album.

People, myself included, crave songs that strike a chord to the core of who we are as humans. We want to feel loved and understood and find peace in a crazy world. I want to use the gift God has given me to bring people to that place.

(Sarah Skates has been covering country music for more than a decade. Her recent work has appeared in Nash Country Weekly, MusicRow and Nashville Lifestyles.)

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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Since 2015, FOR KING & COUNTRY have won four GRAMMYs and only lost twice. One of those losses came in 2017, when Hillary Scott & The Scott Family's "Thy Will" took home the golden gramophone for Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song. The artists meet again in the same category at the 2023 GRAMMYs — but this time, their names are on the same song.

The Christian pop duo recruited Scott for a collaborative version of "For God Is With Us," a meditation on faith, hope and God's love from their fifth studio album, What Are We Waiting For? Not only does the track swell to bombastic heights as the three vocalists harmonize, but it has proven GRAMMY worthy, nominated for Best Contemporary Christian Music Performance/Song at the 2023 GRAMMYs.

It's a full-circle nomination for Scott (who is best known as co-vocalist of country group Lady A) and FOR KING & COUNTRY's Smallbone brothers, Luke and Joel. Their first meeting was at the now fateful 2017 GRAMMYs. "It wasn't on great terms, because, you know, we were nominated in the same categories and she won everything," Joel quips.

Of course, there was never an actual rivalry between the camps. In fact, six years later, they're now friends who cross paths often in the Nashville music scene, and, fittingly, at Sunday church services.

Scott and the Smallbone brothers' camaraderie is apparent as they hop on the phone together for a chat about their nomination. Below, the three discuss the journey "For God Is With Us" took, from its beginnings as a Christmas-inspired FOR KING & COUNTRY track to its fully blossomed version featuring vocals from their pal.

Joel and Luke, you originally released "For God Is With Us" as a single in 2021. Why did you decide to re-record it with Hillary?

Joel: We started crafting it in 2020 at the height of the pandemic. We were working on a Christmas album [2021's A Drummer Boy Christmas], 'cause we felt like, this year of all years, in this country and around the world, we could use the beauty and the importance of what Christmas represents — this idea of joy and love and redemption. We wrote it initially for that project, but the song felt like a red herring on that album. Not because of sentiment; it just didn't feel like it belonged. 

Simultaneously, the owner of our record label, Mike Curb, called with his wife Linda and said, "Hey, we love this song, and we think it's a song that could last all year 'round. What if we pluck it off the Christmas album and pop it on your next project?" So we slipped it off and then wrestled the lyrical bull down by the horns of shifting it just enough to maintain the sentiment of what it always was, but taking it out of the sleigh-bell, Christmasy land [Laughs]. 

[It] became maybe the most spiritually overt song that we've ever written, about the journey of the birth, the death, and the redemption of Jesus Christ. We just stayed sensitive to what the song wanted to be. The ultimate [version] of the song was when Hillary's voice was on it. It was like, "Ah, that's what it was always meant to be." Our only frustration may be that she's not on the original version. 

How else did the song evolve?

Luke: We had lyrics like, "no room in the inn" originally, and we had a ton of sleigh bells. We had all sorts of things, 'cause we were trying to make it a little bit more Christmasy. When we took it off the Christmas album, we had to do the opposite, which may have proved even more difficult because the sonicscape was kind of set. We ended up rewriting quite a lot of lyrics. 

The sonic aspect of it didn't come until really the fourth quarter of the album. I think we were putting it off because we knew it was gonna be difficult to take it out of Christmas land. Eventually, at the last minute, we settled on some of the sonics of what it was, and it finally felt like the song was meant to be.

Hillary, how did you get involved?

Hillary: Honestly, it was a call that I was so honored to receive from Joel and Luke, just gauging my interest in a collaboration. Over the years we've run into each other at so many different events. 

Joel: Specifically running to each other at the GRAMMY Awards. I would debate that's the first time we met each other. 

Hillary: I think you're right. I think it was the '17 GRAMMYs, 'cause [the Hillary Scott & The Scott Family] record [Love Remains] came out in '16, so I think it must have been that following end of January, early February.

Joel: And it wasn't on great terms, because, you know, we were nominated in the same categories and she won everything.

I think what you're saying is that you brought her in as a ringer. 

Joel: Or a good luck charm. 

Luke: We wanna be on the same team now. 

Hillary: I've been, to continue with the teammate metaphor, on the sidelines, such a fan of everything they have been doing. We talked about this in the studio the day I recorded it — it really stretched me to a place, vocally, [where] I got to explore this new part of my voice. It took me out of country into a bit more pop vocals, which was so much fun.

Luke: Pop diva! [Laughs.] 

Hillary: Not only is the message of the song so hopeful, it is so worshipful. I was a fan of it before I got to feature on it. To be part of it with just two of my dearest friends — and the more we hang out, I feel it is such a special bond and friendship. I know I've personally been so open and excited to collaborate and just really waiting on the timing to line up, and I feel like this was the time. 

After the camps met at the GRAMMYs in 2017, how did that friendship grow? 

Hillary: There were a handful of events where we would run into one another. I know Luke went to a [Tennessee] Titans game with my husband with some friends. There's been a couple different random moments like that, and just a real mutual respect for the music, for their hearts, their calling on what they're doing for the world. It's just so inspiring and positive and uplifting, and something that I was more than honored to be able to stand alongside and support and believe, because the world needs it. 

What was the vibe in the studio when you recorded Hillary's performance? 

Luke: We knew with Hillary coming on that there would be some changes to the instrumentation, but I think [they] made your voice shine. You're an amazing singer; it's like, "How can we make that accentuated even more?" It's one of the coolest vocals I've ever heard you do. 

What was exciting for us is to actually see Hillary really enjoy it; to see her in the vocal booth trying things. For both Joel and I as singers, we know what that feels like, when you're on the precipice of something exciting. I think we got a glimpse of that feeling.

Hillary: I'm so accustomed to having my [Lady A] bandmates, Charles [Kelley] and Dave [Haywood], alongside me. They're the brothers I never had. [But] I felt immediately comfortable with the warmth of Luke and Joel, and also the fact that you're getting this familial experience and coming into this team that's so tight-knit. It was so special. 

On my way out of the studio, I got the most precious tackling hug from Luke's little boy. It was just the sweetest way to end a really beautiful day. To have it culminating now with this nomination, and getting to go to the show with two of my closest friends, I couldn't be happier.

Joel: We might even coordinate our outfits.

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Why is it so common for country artists to cross over to contemporary Christian and back again? There's this whole sharing of talent and ideas, particularly in Nashville.

Joel: That's what we've seen from other people towards us. There's been this, "Hey, why don't you come along?" kind of extending the invitation. And I think we've obviously been trying to do the same. 

One of the joys is getting to share these moments with each other in this pretty tight-knit community. I think we're all rooting for each other. The country community in general has just magnificently embraced us. It's been this whole world that was unlocked with Dolly Parton with "God Only Knows." 

At the end of 2019, we were asked to perform on the CMAs, and there was this moment — [we were] at Bridgestone [Arena], backstage, we have our little dressing room back there, and it became this little meet-and-greet room where it was like, Little Big Town is there saying, "We're such supporters of you." And I feel like we ran into each other that night, Hillary, because you were performing with Halsey, which was a great performance. We were sort of wooed by this camaraderie and the beauty of the country community, particularly with how they rally around women.

Hillary: Collaborating is one of my favorite things to do in the whole world, and so any chance to do that with people that I love and respect and just really click with creatively, that's it for me. 

So, are y'all ready to put this rivalry to bed?

Hillary: What better way to put it to bed than to win together? 

Joel: We collaborated with Hillary last year more than I think we've collaborated with anyone other than artists on tours, live shows and that sort of thing. So, you know, if you can't beat them, join them. 

Luke: Truth is, when she won all those GRAMMYs, it was actually a thrilling moment for us to see that take place. Hillary, to see your joy, and your family being there — we can joke about the rivalry, but it was actually a thrill. And at the end of the day, "Thy Will" is a ridiculous song, and it was a beautiful thing to witness.

Joel: That's what we say for GRAMMYs 2023 — "thy will."

Hillary: Thy will be done. There you go. I love it.

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It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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