meta-scriptTinashe's '333' Album Elevates Her To A New Level Of Freedom | GRAMMY.com
Tinashe's '333' Album Elevates Her To A New Level Of Freedom

Tinashe

Photo: Marcus Cooper

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Tinashe's '333' Album Elevates Her To A New Level Of Freedom

Singer/songwriter Tinashe discusses her enlightening new album '333,' virtual reality, and her feelings of no longer being "underrated."

GRAMMYs/Aug 3, 2021 - 09:44 pm

Tinashe seems a lot freer nowadays. While we can only hear each other's voices while connecting on Zoom, her joyous tone is contagious. It's reflective of the metaphorical exhale she's had since 2019 after parting ways with her label following a seven-year-long rollercoaster. The singer/songwriter has been around for nearly a decade, self-releasing her first mixtape, In Case We Die, in 2012 and making her major-label debut with 2014's Aquarius.

She soon dove headfirst as a free agent, her creativity overflowing within 2019's Songs For You, independently released via her Tinashe Music label. Now, Tinashe continues the self-fulfillment journey with 333. Out on August 6, it highlights a newfound clarity about her purpose both as an artist and a person.

333 is a seamless transition from Songs For You, complete with motivational anthems ("If only I could manifest it / My momma told me, 'Life is yours for the takin'" she affirms on lead single "Pasadena"), futuristic tunes that call back to her mixtape days ("I Can See The Future") and themes of owning one's womanhood ("Bouncin'" and "X" with Jeremih).

"I'm glad that it's noticeable because I certainly feel a big difference," Tinashe tells GRAMMY.com about her transition to artistic independence. "But at the same time, there was a lot of uncertainty of not really knowing how people would react to my [new] music, not knowing where I was getting the budget for things I wanted to create, and just how everything was going to work."

"Over the course of the last two years, there's been a lot of growth for me," she continues. "I really feel at peace with where I'm at in my career and excited about the fact that I'm able to make my own creative decisions. It's empowering. I'm feeling a lot more inspired and joyful in alignment with what I'm meant to be doing."

Below, Tinashe discusses the enlightening journey that led to 333 and why it's time to stop branding her as "underrated."

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I was reading that 333 in angel numbers is a sign of divine protectors and that your path ahead is clear for you to move forward into life's next chapter. I'm assuming that was the inspiration for the album title?

Yeah, absolutely. It's been a journey for me to always remember that I am on the right path and that I'm always moving towards my ultimate goal. [I have to be] focused on that as opposed to getting lost in the sauce, whether that be in [streaming] numbers or competing for chart positions. These are things we can get caught up with when we're public music artists and wanting to be successful. I think those things can derail you from your true purpose.

So for me, it's just knowing that I am always protected, having that hopefulness, moving forward with a sense of safety, and not necessarily always being in reaction mode. I do have this divine protection at all times and I'm comforted in that. It's also reflective in my name as well, which I always think is cool. My name means "God is with us" in Shona, [the language spoken] where my dad is from Zimbabwe. It just mirrors that in the sense too: we always have our angels around us to look at our intuition and lead us in the right direction.

I love that. Virtual reality is also a big theme for this record. My interpretation is this controlled "machine" that society enforces on you that contrasts with your natural instincts of going with the flow.

I think that's a great interpretation. I've been really interested in how technology and spirituality meet. To get even deeper, questioning the nature of reality and simulated simulation theory and thinking about potentially being in a simulation. I feel like 2020 was so wild that a lot of times I [thought], "This can't be really happening." So it's playing with that idea, but then also realizing where it meets my spirituality, a sense of boundlessness and freedom. You can look at it in an interesting way, that potentially this is all just like a game.

Instead of finding that as a scary concept, looking at it as more empowered: "Maybe I'm able to actually control the narrative of my life, make my own decisions and take the power back." So it's moving through the [music] industry in a way that feels fearless. I can actually renavigate this landscape as opposed to just being a pawn in it.

Do you plan to bring that idea on your tour this fall?

Girl, yes. I plan to just continue to build out all of my interests from tech gaming and VR, and bring that into the performance space, and continue to push the boundaries in that aspect. Also with the world shutting down, being able to bring concert experiences to more fans than the people that can just come to the major markets. Connecting my worldwide fanbase ties into what I'm attempting to do with this project for sure.

Where does your interest in tech stem from?

I'm not exactly sure if there's one thing. It's a theme that I've been exploring since my Reverie mixtape in 2012, which at that time I was more interested in the concept of reality possibly being a dream and how we move through life. As the years have gone on, I've gotten more involved in gaming and tech has gotten more advanced, so it's interesting to me to then apply those same concepts and questions to this new landscape. There's a dichotomy between the natural world and re-sustainability with saving the planet. But then at the same time, we're trying to get to Mars, building AI and developing all these simulated worlds that are just getting better and better. I obviously also love gaming.

You actually nailed this theme on the title track, which I think is your most experimental moment. It has this robotic "Black Mirror" feel to it. I can tell you've been pushing yourself.

I appreciate that. I'm always intrigued by things that push the envelope because it's more interesting to me. I do think historically maybe that has been confusing for my audience at times, especially those who don't know me very well. From the outside looking in, people have said that maybe I'm unfocused or I lack direction, when in reality what feels the most natural to me is exploring all these different avenues.

I'm able to not box myself into one lane, genre, or style, and I can continue to experiment sonically. With this album, I personally think I did a really good job of trying to walk that line between music that is catchy, memorable, and that you can bop to of course, but then also pushing myself in a new direction as always.

This album is so bright and vibrant. My favorite projects from you are Black Water and Nightride, which are both so moody and dark. You hear this trajectory of you emerging from those murky waters and the light finally hits you. That light is now 333.

I feel that way in my spirit and who I am as a person as well. When I was creating those albums, that was very true of myself at the time. When I created Nightride, I was really working on Joyride and there was some tension with my record label.

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Yeah, I remember it being this very public tug-o-war.

It was a whole thing. [Laughs.] The way I'm able to express my feelings or frustration, usually comes out through the art. Nightride felt more on the darker end of the spectrum, but still in alignment with the sonic universe that I'm creating now.

It's really telling how much I have matured and grown. So I'm excited to see where I go from here. I don't even know what the next project will sound like. I obviously have not started yet, but I think it's always going to be a journey through where I'm at emotionally and mentally as a human being.

There's also this heightened sexuality on this album too, which carries over from Songs For You. I don't know if you believe in the divine feminine, but it gives me that energy.

Yes, yes, thank you! Again, that's part of that evolution. Songs For You explored those themes, but I was definitely coming from a place of hurt. So a lot of the songs, even the sexier ones, have a tone of resentment or there's an edge to it. This one is more of me coming into my power and confidence. Like you said, that divine feminine energy is something that I've really tapped into as well.

I'm owning my sexuality and confidence as a woman and being able to play into that power in a way that is empowering and beautiful and exciting as opposed to just feeling more like it's like a crutch. Every woman that I've loved musically has really embraced that. Whether that'd be Janet [Jackson], Britney [Spears], Christina Aguilera, or Beyoncé, the list goes on and on. These are people who have used their sexuality in a way that feels really powerful and inspiring. I've always loved that as a fan. So I'm trying to incorporate that in my art as well.

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We're both huge Britney Spears fans, and of course you collaborated with her on "Slumber Party" in 2016.

Britney has always walked this beautiful, fine line between power and softness both in her personality and in her sensuality. I've loved to see that as the years have gone on. I think one of the things that we all love the most about Britney is that she seems so sweet and genuine. That's why everyone really wants her to win and wants her to be happy. I want her to win and to see her come into her power, be able to speak her truth, be able to make those changes, and stand up for herself. I think that's amazing. So we absolutely love to see it.

You have power as well, now having full creative independence. How does that feel to finally gain that?

I feel like it's changed the game for me in terms of how I view myself as an artist. It really is more psychological than anything else, but just knowing that I've created this for myself and I don't need the big machine in order to validate who I am as an artist. I can still put out quality material and still focus on my purpose. That's really given me a lot of confidence and a new sense of energy as a performer, as an artist, as a creative. I'm very, very happy with all the changes I've made and I'm really proud of myself too.

As you should be. People are always tweeting: "Tinashe is so underrated!" I don't know if you've seen them, but there's so many videos of other artists who borrow from the Tinashe blueprint. Maybe it's because you're no longer with a major label, but at this point, you can't be considered as such.

Well, thank you and I agree! I do think that when people say that, they mean it as a compliment. I appreciate where they're coming from, in the sense that we all want these landmarks of success and to achieve these accolades. It's been really crucial in my own understanding of myself to not view myself as underrated, but as someone who absolutely has made an impact and is exactly where I'm meant to be and be comfortable in that.

It's important to not get mixed up in the numbers, streams, "likes" and the things that can potentially confuse that [ideal]. I'm owning what I've done and where I've come from. I'm looking at myself more as a legend-in-the-making, as opposed to someone who's underrated. I still got a long way to go. This isn't the end, the future is bright! I'm very excited to see what happens.

"It's been really crucial in my own understanding of myself to not view myself as underrated, but as someone who absolutely has made an impact and is exactly where I'm meant to be and be comfortable in that."

You're a triple threat and with both of us growing up in the "TRL" era, I think having the total package is what's been lacking in music lately. But you and a few other artists have been reigniting that movement.

I try to give the world what I loved the most about artists that I loved growing up — especially Janet Jackson. She really embodied every aspect of what it means to be a true entertainer, from the interviews to the visuals, to the stage performance, to the songs themselves. It never felt, at any point, that any part of her was lacking. There was an effort in every single element. I want to be able to bring that attention to detail and love of my art to what I do as well. So thank you. I've been very actively attempting to be accountable for every aspect of my career. So I'm glad that people can tell that I've been putting that effort in.

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Your music still has the vibe that you're recording in your bedroom. Is maintaining that intimacy important to you?

A thousand percent. If ever there was a point in my career where I felt like I was maybe losing myself was when I didn't maintain my precious creative process. My best work has always been music that I've created in my own space or music that felt really instinctual.

When I was signed to a major [label], it was a blessing to be able to work with all of the biggest producers in the game. But at the same time, it affected my mental health and also how I viewed myself as an artist. There were times when I thought what I created wasn't as good as maybe what other people could create. Remembering that my best work always comes from my gut has really helped me refocus. And that output is tangible. I think people can tell the difference when you have a real passion behind everything you put out.

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Britney Spears' Biggest Songs: 15 Of The Pop Icon's Most Beloved Tracks, From "Toxic" To "Hold Me Closer"
Britney Spears performs in 2016.

Photo: Tim Mosenfelder/Getty Images

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Britney Spears' Biggest Songs: 15 Of The Pop Icon's Most Beloved Tracks, From "Toxic" To "Hold Me Closer"

As Britney Spears celebrates the 20th anniversary of one of her all-time classics, "Toxic," GRAMMY.com rounds up 15 tracks that encapsulate the star's peak performances and iconic moments.

GRAMMYs/Jan 12, 2024 - 06:57 pm

Britney Spears recently posted a message on Instagram that asserted she'd never return to the music business. She later deleted it, which could be taken as a sign that she hasn't made this big decision with such finality. But it was certainly an alarming statement to her diehard fans eagerly awaiting new music.

It's fair to hold out hope that Spears will want to be a public entertainer and recording artist again in some ways — after all, she did just release a memoir, The Woman in Me, in October, and the book reveals a healing woman. And, of course, she scored a worldwide hit in 2022 with Elton John in "Hold Me Closer." 

Even if she never releases another piece of music, Spears already has quite the legacy. Between five No. 1 singles on the Billboard Hot 100, six No. 1 albums on the Billboard 200, and a GRAMMY win, her mark on pop music is undeniable. Part of that impact is courtesy of "Toxic," the danceable smash that was released as a single in January 2004 (and won Spears her GRAMMY in 2005).

In honor of the 20th anniversary of "Toxic," GRAMMY.com surveyed the pop superstar's hits and deep cuts from 1998 to the present in order to break down some of the most essential tracks in Spears' catalog. Between beautiful ballads and brazen bops, let the reminiscing commence.

"...Baby, One More Time," ...Baby One More Time (1998)

Written and co-produced by powerhouse Swedish pop producer Max Martin — a frequent collaborator throughout Spears' career — the singer's debut single was rewarded with some of the highest honors of the music industry when she was just 17 years old.

"...Baby, One More Time" topped the Billboard Hot 100 chart and was nominated for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance at the 42nd GRAMMY Awards. It has since sold over 10 million copies, and to this day remains one of her defining hits. (And to think it almost wasn't hers: According to Yahoo! News Australia, the song was reportedly originally offered to the Backstreet Boys.)

The song's instantly meteoric success was undoubtedly catapulted by its memorable video, which sees Spears dance her way through private school halls in a (now iconic) skimpy uniform. Seeing it performed visually cemented her image as a young, belly-baring flirt with girl-next-door looks, approachable style and enviable dancing skills, an archetype that little girls everywhere wanted to emulate.

"Oops!... I Did It Again," Oops!... I Did It Again (2000)

Spears further played with her innocent image on "Oops!... I Did It Again," a sassy song that suggests suitors aren't exactly safe with their heart in her hands. It was nominated for Best Female Pop Vocal Performance at the 43rd GRAMMYs.

"I think I did it again," she sings at the top of the track. "I made you believe we're more than just friends." Spawning another classic video and another trademark look (this time, a red catsuit), "Oops" emphasized Spears' further pivot into naughtiness and had thousands learning her choreography in a pre-YouTube era. 

Another Max Martin and Rami Yacoub production, "Oops" stuck at No. 9 on the Billboard Hot 100, but the album of the same name debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 and set first-week records for sales by a woman artist at the time with 1,319,913 copies sold.

"Lucky," Oops!... I Did It Again (2000)

"Lucky" is a peppy song with a sprinkle of sadness on top. Its titular character is a Hollywood girl who seems to have it all, but there's no one to share her success with, so she is lonely and cries at night. It was a poignant sentiment, given her fame at the time, and was re-examined by fans in recent years as she fought for freedom from her conservatorship overseen by her father, Jamie Spears.

While it didn't manage to break the top 20 of the Hot 100, "Lucky" has always been a fan favorite. The song did break through internationally, though, becoming a No. 1 hit in three European countries as well as on Europe's overall pop chart.

"Dear Diary," Oops!... I Did It Again (2000)

Spears has worked with a global roster of songwriters and producers over the years, but the Oops! ballad "Dear Diary" marked a special moment for the star: it was the first album cut that she co-wrote.

While Oops!... I Did It Again largely showed a maturing Spears, the innocence and sweetness of "Dear Diary" served as a reminder that she was still just a teenager in the beginning of her stardom. The track also seemingly gave her the confidence to co-write more of her songs, as she had a hand in writing almost half of 2001's Britney and almost all of 2003's In the Zone.

"I'm a Slave 4 U," Britney (2001)

Spears went rather gritty on the lead single to her third, self-titled album. While earlier singles may have had a sexy wink within their words, the lyrics of "I'm a Slave 4 U" took a deeper plunge into the erotic zone. "All you people look at me like I'm a little girl," she sings defensively. "Well, did you ever think it'd be okay for me to step into this world?"

Along with the racy lyrics, Spears' visual performances of the song — a music video depiction of a steamy basement club night and a VMA performance that included dancing with an Albino Burmese python around her neck — added more cultural moments to her repertoire. 

"Overprotected," Britney (2001)

Spears' massive fame made her an early paparazzi magnet and led her to be sheltered by her management, record label and family. These topics are addressed head-on over the soaring notes of "Overprotected."

"Say hello to the girl that I am/ You're gonna have to see through my perspective," she declares on the opening verse. "I need to make mistakes just to learn who I am/ And I don't wanna be so damn protected."

The anthem foreshadowed her future hit "Piece of Me" — and the struggle for independence she'd later fight for during her conservatorship — but ultimately showed that she isn't afraid to speak her mind and fight for what's hers.

"I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman," Britney (2001)

After two bold statements with Britney's first two singles ("I'm a Slave 4 U" and "Overprotected"), Spears pumped the brakes on the notion of her growing up too fast in the ballad "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman." The song appeared on her third album, Britney, and in the soundtrack for the road trip dramedy Crossroads.

"There is no need to protect me," she sings powerfully on the track, which appears to mirror her experience in real life at that moment in time. "It's time that I/ Learn to face up to this on my own/ I've seen so much more than you know now/ So don't tell me to shut my eyes." 

"Toxic," In the Zone (2003)

"Toxic" is an uptempo whirlwind of sampled Bollywood strings and Swedish pop drama crafted by the popular dance pop producers Bloodshy & Avant. Another single that took on a life of its own visually, the video served up another set of iconic looks: the deadly assassin, the sparkly nude bodysuit and the perky flight attendant.

"Toxic" remains Spears' biggest hit as of press time, now certified six-times platinum by the RIAA and the only song with more than one billion streams on Spotify. It also won Spears her one GRAMMY, for Best Dance Recording at the 47th GRAMMY Awards.

And 20 years after its release as a single, "Toxic" has had remarkable staying power on the pop charts. As of 2023, the song appeared on the Hot 100 in three different incarnations: the original track and the mash-ups "Toxic Pony" by Altégo and "Toxic Las Vegas" by Jamieson Shaw. 

"Everytime," In the Zone (2003)

By this era of Spears' discography, fans were more than used to autotune and other processed treatments on her singing — but "Everytime" is Spears in a more vulnerable and unplugged state. Co-written by Spears, the slow, melancholic ballad hit even harder because it was released after her public breakup with Justin Timberlake.

Fans hadn't heard anything quite as sad from Spears in her career as the pining lyrics of the chorus on "Everytime": "And every time I try to fly I fall/ Without my wings/ I feel so small/ I guess I need you, baby." The song became a fan favorite for the rawness of her vocal delivery, and was also a personal favorite for Spears during her Las Vegas concert residency.

"Womanizer," Circus (2008)

Spears' father began his role as her conservator in February 2008. Seven months later, she released "Womanizer," the lead single to her sixth album, Circus — which proved that no one was going to hold her down.

"You say I'm crazy," she sneers on the chorus of the engine-roaring uptempo track, which pokes fun at recent troubles with her ex-husband Kevin Federline. "I got your crazy!" she adds, sarcastically.

While the song's message focused on telling off a, well, womanizer, its commercial success showed Spears' new conservatorship meant nothing for her staying power. "Womanizer" was her first No. 1 hit on the Billboard Hot 100 since "...Baby, One More Time" topped the chart in January 1999; it also earned Spears her seventh GRAMMY nomination, for Best Dance Recording at the 2010 GRAMMYs.

"If You Seek Amy," Circus (2008)

If the title to the sing-songy "If You Seek Amy" is said out loud, it sounds like a sexual proposition. And that's exactly what makes this Max Martin-produced track so enjoyable.

Despite everything she was experiencing in her personal life, it offered evidence that Spears still knew how to poke fun at her staying at the center of attention. It's a perfect time capsule to an era when she was most wanted by the paparazzi.

"Hold It Against Me," Femme Fatale (2011)

Spears' "Hold It Against Me" flips an old chauvinistic joke into girl power — another clever piece added to the singer's puzzle. After being objectified so much over the course of her career, this song was her bid to put an end to it.

"Hold It Against Me" continued Spears' late 2000s hot streak into the 2010s. It earned the singer her fourth No. 1 on the Hot 100, following the chart-topping success of "3," her cheeky ode to threesomes, in 2009. 

"Work B—," Britney Jean (2013)

Spears assumes a faux British accent for "Work B—," a bossy cut made for gyms or the club. "You want a hot body? You want a Bugatti? You want a Maserati?" she asks over an insistent beat. "You better work, b—… now get to work, b—!"

Shortly after the track was released in 2013, Spears told English talk show host Alan Carr that the song is a tribute to her gay male friends, with whom she uses the word b— playfully and affectionately as a term of endearment. It became both a gay club anthem and a top 20 hit on the Hot 100 chart, and the video revived interest in Spears' dancing chops.

"Slumber Party (feat. Tinashe), Glory (2016)

A slightly different sound for Spears compared to her pop and dance productions, "Slumber Party" features Tinashe with a lyrical cadence that is more in the R&B singer's realm. It's perhaps the Spears song with the most urban radio feel since "I'm a Slave 4 U."

Fans may also remember "Slumber Party" fondly for what was once a romantic reason: Spears' now ex-husband Sam Asghari was cast as the leading man in the lingerie-heavy music video; it's how they first met each other.

"Hold Me Closer" with Elton John, The Lockdown Sessions (2022)

What better way to celebrate a big feat than with a massive collaboration? Nine months after Spears' long-fought conservatorship was terminated, she dropped a team-up with none other than Sir Elton John.

The unexpected duo released "Hold Me Closer," a soaring duet that interpolates parts of John's beloved hits "Tiny Dancer," "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" and "The One" into a singular modern mix. And though Spears is more of a background vocalist, her first release in six years marked quite the comeback: "Hold Me Closer" topped the Billboard Adult Top 40 and the Hot Dance/Electronic Songs charts, and reached No. 6 on the Hot 100.

As of press time, "Hold Me Closer" is the last song that Spears has released to date. While it's possible that there may not be any more recordings to follow, it's also safe to say she has surprised the world more than once before.

How Many GRAMMYs Has Britney Spears Won? 10 Questions About The "Hold Me Closer" Singer Answered

24 Songs Turning 20: Listen To 2004's Bangers, From "Yeah!" To "Since U Been Gone"
(L-R) Lil Jon, Usher, and Ludacris perform at Madison Square Garden in 2004.

Photo: Frank Micelotta/Getty Images

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24 Songs Turning 20: Listen To 2004's Bangers, From "Yeah!" To "Since U Been Gone"

Ready to feel old? Put on this playlist of hits that made 2004 a year of belt-along jams and unforgettable hooks, including Daddy Yankee's "Gasolina" and Ashlee Simpson's "Pieces Of Me."

GRAMMYs/Jan 8, 2024 - 04:20 pm

A quick Google search of "top 2004 songs" can be summarized simply: What a time to be alive.

While it was arguably the year of Usher — who scored four Billboard Hot 100 chart-toppers in 2004, including the year's biggest song, the Lil Jon- and Ludacris-assisted "Yeah!" — there were countless hits that have aged impeccably. Even 20 years later, there isn't a dance floor or karaoke bar that wouldn't go wild for J-Kwon's "Tipsy" or Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone."

Whether you were jamming to them on your iPod Mini or ripping them off of Limewire, revisit 24 tracks that made an impact — and still serve up the vibes 20 years later.

Listen on Spotify, Amazon Music, or Apple Music below.

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Coco Jones On Her Breakthrough Year, Turning Rejection Into Purpose & Learning From Babyface
Coco Jones

Photo: Courtesy Coco Jones

interview

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Coco Jones On Her Breakthrough Year, Turning Rejection Into Purpose & Learning From Babyface

Coco Jones is nominated across five categories at the 2024 GRAMMYs, including Best New Artist and Best R&B Album for her EP, 'What I Didn't Tell You.' The first-time nominee discussed her hit, "ICU," working with legends and the power of representation.

GRAMMYs/Jan 8, 2024 - 02:23 pm

Coco Jones is feeling more inspired than ever following a year of exciting surprises and breakthroughs. In 2023, the 25-year-old budding star celebrated her first Billboard Hot 100 entry thanks to her platinum-selling "ICU" single, embarked on her first headlining tour, and earned her first GRAMMY nominations.

"Being a GRAMMY-nominated artist changes everything. It's such a different creative mindset when the world says, 'You're good, we like what you do,'" Jones tells GRAMMY.com. "It's like a gold star. It makes you want to work harder, it makes you wanna continue to impress, and it makes you impressed with yourself, too."

Jones is nominated across five categories at the 2024 GRAMMYs: Her 2022 EP What I Didn't Tell You is up for Best R&B Album and its "ICU" will compete for Best R&B Performance and Best R&B Song. Her feature on Babyface's "Simple" has received a nod for Best Traditional R&B Performance. Jones is also up for the coveted golden gramophone for Best New Artist.

In recent years, her vocal prowess has received praise from SZA, Janet Jackson, and Beyoncé, but anyone who's even remotely familiar with Jones' story knows that her newfound success is anything but overnight. Jones first found success at age 14, when she starred in the 2012 Disney movie musical Let It Shine. The Tennessee native faced colorism early on, which she addressed in a 2020 YouTube video that went viral.

"I always wanted that representation that my dreams were possible growing up," she shares. "I definitely was not based in reality of what the entertainment industry is. It's tough and it's challenging and sometimes it isn't fair and that is not what I was prepared for as a kid."

During the pandemic, Jones secured a spot in "Bel-Air" (Peacock's reimagining of "The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air") as the spoiled yet beloved Hilary Banks, but she never let go of her love of  music. Following her 2014 departure from Hollywood Records, Jones released music independently, including the ominous "Hollyweird" and "Depressed"; when Def Jam approached her in the summer of 2021, she was ready for her close-up.

Fast forward to present, and Jones is gearing up for one of the most pivotal nights of her blossoming career. But perhaps the most precious thing she's collected along the way is self-assurance. "I'm learning that I have to believe in my creative choices and that I shouldn't second guess what I feel because it does well," she says with a laugh.

Of her recent success, Jones says the back-to-back accolades shocked her, but like a true artist, she's already thinking ahead and manifesting an exciting first for 2024: "I want my debut album to hit No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart."

Ahead of the 2024 GRAMMYs, Jones discusses the power of representation for dark-skinned Black women, why her mother is her biggest inspiration, and how joining forces with Babyface created momentum in her career.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

After finding out that you received five GRAMMY nominations, you posted an Instagram video showing you and your mother reveling in the excitement of it all. Tell me more about that moment and your mother's role in this journey.

I'm one of four children and my mom owned multiple businesses, but she made us all feel loved and supported while also being a boss. Watching her navigate the entertainment industry — which she had no prior experience with — was very inspiring. She took every challenge head-on and still managed to make time with all of her kids. 

She's always been a visionary, so I think for her, it's like, This is exactly what we worked for. The end goal is to be award-winning, to be show-stopping, to be classic, to be timeless. That's what she saw for me even when I was a little girl on stage singing Aretha Franklin.

There were times when it was hard for me to see what she saw in me, especially when you're dealing with the rejection that is the music industry. But she always knows the right thing to say to keep me going and to keep my faith. So, when it wasn't like how it is now, she was the entire team. She did anything she could to help me progress.

You retweeted a meet-and-greet with a fan, who donned your merch from 2018, which seemed to take you by surprise. It seems like your 2023 breakthrough was a win for not just yourself, but for those early supporters as well.

I would definitely say it's a win for my fans and my supporters, but also for young Black women who look like me and have big dreams and just want to see what they are dreaming about is possible. I know that I inspire so many young Black women — they tell me almost every day that seeing me win helps them believe in themselves winning.

My goal is to continue to break those barriers down for young Black women so that it's not such a surprise when we succeed.

In a 2022 interview, you said you wanted to experience the highs of being an entertainer and being on stage "even if it meant a lot of lows." Many creatives feel that way. Do you have any advice for struggling artists who feel like no one's paying attention?

You can make it this thing where you feel like you're running out of time, or you can make it feel like you're adjusting to time. Time is whatever you decide it is.

There were so many obstacles I didn't understand, but hindsight is 20/20. I needed the lessons that I learned, I needed the self-reliance, I needed the optimism and the faith. So, I think it was all very growing but still tough not knowing what was going to happen, not knowing if I was going to have that life-changing job, that life-changing song. 

I'm just grateful to God for protecting me through all the confusion and for not giving up. I had enough support around me and enough doors to open even though they felt far and few between to keep me sustained and pursuing this dream, even though I was pursuing it without any guarantees.

What I Didn't Tell You isn't the first EP you released, but it's the one that made you a first-time GRAMMY nominee. What was different this time around?

I was very supported; when Def Jam approached me, they seemed so understanding of my vision that I couldn't help but feel like we were already a team. They helped me put the pieces together. Before this, I was just on my own or it was me and my mom, so I felt more supported with this EP release. My label understands me and what I want to be, and there's no pushback against who I am and what I can naturally do. It's all about enhancing. 

As part of R&B's new class, what do you want to bring to the genre?

More uptempo! I want to be able to sing my heart out but make a bop that you wanna dance to. I love how Whitney Houston would do that with some of her songs like "I'm Your Baby Tonight" and "How Will I Know."

Your breakthrough single, "ICU," is up for Best R&B Song, but what lesser-known song off What I Didn't Tell You (Deluxe) would you nominate in the same category if you could?

"Fallin'" because it's a sensual song, and I feel like it sits in a really cool, pretty place in my voice. It also tells a good story of the chaos that my life is while also starting to fall for somebody.

In 2022, you joined forces with R&B legend Babyface for his collaborative Girls Night Out project. Your "Simple" duet with him is nominated for Best Traditional R&B Performance. Do you think collaborating with Babyface acted as a precursor for the incredible year you had?

When I learned Babyface wanted me on his album, I was beside myself. He was really one of the first legends to give me that stamp of approval. I definitely think the recognition I got from him was like a turning point in what was next for my life. The world started to notice around that time. 

When I interviewed Babyface soon after the release of Girls Night Out, he talked about doing his homework to better understand the differences in today's R&B. That was surprising to hear, because he's clearly an expert at writing hit songs but not above learning from others. What did you learn from his mentorship?

I just learned that you can be a legend and you can still be open to ideas, open to new talents, and open to suggestions. Just stay open to what’s new, who's new, and why they're doing well, and that's what will keep you legendary. 

I'm a big fan of studying music, so I will continue to be a student. Creating music and studying music are two different things to me. I study it and then I feel creative, so I think it's about separating them because sometimes if you're creating while studying, you just end up repeating exactly what somebody's doing and that doesn't feel authentic. It's more about getting inspired and then creating.

My love for music and being a creative is what keeps me going because it's not always fun, it's not always easy. Sometimes it's about business, sometimes it's about pushing past your exhaustion. I don't think I would do that, not for this long, if I didn't love the payoff of being a creative. 

How will you celebrate if you win a GRAMMY?

I haven't thought about how I'm gonna celebrate. I think my favorite type of celebrations are intimate. They're with people who are in the mud with me — my family, my team. I would probably just want to have a great dinner and think about how far we've come and what's next.

2024 GRAMMY Nominations: See The Full Nominees List

Behind Julia Michaels' Hits: From Working With Britney & Bieber, To Writing For 'Wish'
Julia Michaels attends the 'Wish' UK premiere

Photo: Belinda Jiao / Getty Images

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Behind Julia Michaels' Hits: From Working With Britney & Bieber, To Writing For 'Wish'

GRAMMY-nominated songwriter and artist Julia Michaels has been trusted to turn pop stars' revelatory moments into song. Michaels spoke to GRAMMY.com about creating authentic songs and the stories behind some of her biggest hits.

GRAMMYs/Dec 18, 2023 - 02:51 pm

Julia Michaels landed her first major songwriting gig at just 18 years old. 

Fresh out of school, she’d cold pitched a little company named Walt Disney with a song she thought would suit an upcoming series. That song went on to soundtrack a popular Disney Channel show called "Austin & Ally."

Michaels quickly developed a reputation for her quick work and therapeutic approach to songwriting, and, in her early 20s, was transforming pop music via her confessional and slightly quirky perspective. The L.A.-based artist was soon writing with pop’s A-listers — from Britney Spears to Justin Bieber and Ed Sheeran, producing songs that gave the world insight into the contours of the biggest star’s internal worlds. 

"I'm grateful that I've been able to work with artists that allow the space for vulnerability and for authenticity, and for us to be able to speak openly and honestly about things we're going through," Michaels tells GRAMMY.com.

With a knack for emotional precision and complexity, Michaels has been trusted to transmute icons' revelatory moments into song: post-divorce comeback anthems, breakup bangers, even apologies. You’d be hard-pressed to find a songwriter better able to spin pain into a punchline than Michaels.

It’s one of many reasons Disney tapped her to score Wish, a recently-released mega musical feature that’s been chosen by the Studio to celebrate their 100th anniversary. Her idiosyncratic and confessional style lends a fresh perspective to protagonist Asha, while the songs remain rose-colored, dreamy, heart-lurching and classically Disney.

At age 30, Michaels is the youngest ever songwriter to score an entire Disney feature. But that's not her only major accolade: Michaels has been nominated for three GRAMMY Awards, most recently for Marren Morris' "Circles Around This Town" — which was given the nod for Best Country Song at the 2023 GRAMMYs. At the 60th GRAMMY Awards, Michaels was nominated for Best New Artist.

The phenom spoke with GRAMMY.com about some of the hits that made her one of the industry's most in-demand writers — and led to her biggest gig yet.  

"Sorry" - Justin Bieber (2015)

I had met a producer named Josh Goodwin, and he had asked for us to write some songs and see what we could come up with.  We had written two songs, and one of them I don't think ever saw the light of day. The other was "Sorry." 

"Used To Love You" - Gwen Stefani (2016)

I was asked to do some sessions with Gwen and my friend Justin Tranter. It was my first session with her but not his, so they had already known each other.

I wasn't entirely sure what I was gonna walk into or what she would feel comfortable talking to me about. And she was just so open and so lovely and vulnerable. She had these journal entries; in the midst of all of these thoughts and feelings she’d written down she had said: “I don't know why I cried, but I think it's because I remembered for the first time since I hated you that I used to love you.” She kept on reading from her journal and I stopped her and said "No, no, no, that’s a song." So we wrote it and it was just beautiful, she was very happy with it.

Every session is different, every artist is different, everybody writes differently. So sometimes I'm not sure what role I need to take that day. Gwen was very much in control of her narrative and vision, and what she wanted to talk about, so I just followed her footsteps.

I'm not really one for small talk. I think that's why I am still here. I like to get down to the heart of somebody and I know that takes a lot of trust. I'm grateful that I've been able to work with artists that allow the space for vulnerability and for authenticity, and for us to be able to speak openly and honestly about things we're going through.

I don't really have any qualms with walking in a room and being like, "Okay, but how are you really doing?" Not the L.A. version of how are you doing. Like no, how are you actually doing?

"Slumber Party" feat. Tinashe - Britney Spears (2016)

I met her [Britney] after writing a song that she liked, and then we started writing together. 

That was pretty surreal. I don't really fangirl a lot; I've been in enough rooms with people to know that we all laugh the same and cry the same and bleed the same. But then I remember hearing Britney sing this into the microphone for the first time and I just began melting into the floor, in shock and awe. 

I’d done something like eight songs for the album, and writing with her was so special. She has pop melodies wholly ingrained in who she is, so everything that she's saying just sounds like the perfect pop song. She also had her own narratives and she knew what she wanted to write about. We would literally just pull the microphone up to her face so she could sing melodies and we would write songs according to all the melodies and just go from there.

I remember just writing all the time and trying to find a sound that she felt suited her best. A I knew she wanted to do things that still had some vulnerability, but she's Britney Spears — she wanted to have a really fun pop record also. So we tried to cater to that as much as we could.

"This Wish" (2023)

This was the first song I wrote for Wish and it was the first song to come out for the movie. I was called in 2020 by [Walt Disney Music President] Tom McDougall and he asked me if I would like to try to write a song for a new movie, but didn't tell me that it was for the 100th anniversary of Disney's animation movies. Off of this little sort of blurb that he had sent me, I wrote this song about hope and being courageous, and taking a chance and being brave. I thought that was just such a beautiful message.

If he had told me that it was the 100th anniversary, I probably would have been really stressed out. I'm a Disney fan. I've been a Disney fan since I was a kid; I love Disney songs. And so there was already that added pressure to make something that's going to stand the test of time. But I also think that because I grew up with [Disney] it is probably in my psyche more than I even know. And so I wanted to make a song that felt really classic and really powerful and really beautiful, but also still sounded like something that I would write.

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