meta-scriptRapper Lil Dicky Talks New TV Show 'Dave' And His Creative Ambitions On- And Off-Screen | GRAMMY.com
Rapper Lil Dicky Talks New TV Show 'Dave' And His Creative Ambitions On- And Off-Screen

Lil Dicky, aka Dave Burd, as Dave

Courtesy Photo: Pamela Littky/FX

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Rapper Lil Dicky Talks New TV Show 'Dave' And His Creative Ambitions On- And Off-Screen

On his new FXX TV show, the viral rapper is giving fans an inside look into Dave Burd, the man behind Lil Dicky, and his pursuit of his hip-hop dreams

GRAMMYs/Mar 27, 2020 - 02:31 am

The first thing you'll notice about Lil Dicky is his ridiculous name, which, it turns out, is more than an elementary dick joke. The next thing you'll notice about Lil Dicky are his ridiculous lyrics. On his 2015 single, "$ave Dat Money," featuring Fetty Wap and Rich Homie Quan, he raps about his frugal approach to life: "I ain't parkin' that unless the meter green, homie/Hair cut several months in-between, homie/Hit the motherf**kin' lights when I leave, homie." 

It's almost easy to overlook Lil Dicky's prowess as a hilarious lyricist and technically skilled rapper. Still, underneath all the incisive punchlines about petty crimes and broken relationships, the rapper flips the script on mainstream rap culture, tackling issues like hypermasculinity ("Classic Male Pregame") and white privilege ("White Dude") in a manner offering both comical relief and sharp social commentary. 

"It's hard for people to take being funny seriously, even though I don't think it's mutually exclusive," Lil Dicky tells the Recording Academy. "I think I can be funny and still very musically credible." 

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After breaking out in 2013 with his viral music video "Ex-Boyfriend," Lil Dicky has since become a bona fide rap star. His 2015 debut album, Professional Rapper, topped the Top Rap Albums and the Comedy Albums charts in the U.S. and featured rap royalty like Snoop Dogg and T-Pain

Now, Lil Dicky is giving fans an inside look (kinda) into his life on his new FXX TV show, "Dave." Debuted this month, "Dave" tells a fictionalized version of Dave Burd, the man behind Lil Dicky, and his pursuit of his hip-hop dreams. On the show, Lil Dicky, in his neurotic mind, is convinced he's destined to be one of the best rappers of all time, and now he's proving it to the world—one dick joke at a time. 

As the show's co-creator, executive producer and lead actor, Burd steps into new artistic roles beyond the mic for the first time ever, which present him with a different set of creative challenges. 

"I guess the main challenge is one of ignorance in the sense that… there's no test in our history I can lean on," Burd says. "I'm no longer nervous about doing concerts because I can, in my head, think of all the concerts I've done and know that it's going to go well because I've done this in the past… [With the] TV show, it's my first time doing it… But I think I was able to overcome that by just going with my gut more."

Much like his sardonic songs and witty lyrics, "Dave" also deals with social issues through a sarcastic yet keen perspective some may initially miss. In one episode, Lil Dicky explains his absurd moniker to his friend's bewildered mom: "It's actually a super-intellectual commentary on hypermasculinity." It's a story he's told more than once.

"It's easy to look at a rapper named Lil Dicky—who acts the way I do, the content's the way it is, and his rap name is a small penis joke—and not inherently feel like taking him seriously as a rapper," Burd explains. "But I really think I should be taken very seriously as a rapper. I don't even feel remotely satisfied in terms of accomplishing my rap dream. I can't wait to be taken even more seriously."

The Recording Academy caught up with Lil Dicky to discuss his life as a newfound Hollywood triple threat, his creative challenges behind "Dave" and his future ambitions on- and off-screen.

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"Dave" sees you taking on the role of actor, writer and producer, on top of your main gig as a rapper. Which do you consider yourself first: actor, comedian, rapper? Is there a difference? 

There's definitely a difference between being a rapper and an actor. But I guess I consider myself to be Dave Burd, who is an actor and a rapper. I consider myself the person that I am first and foremost, and then I guess the other things are various occupations. But I guess I have more occupations now than I did when I was just a rapper, if that makes sense. And I don't think I can prioritize either of them right now, but I think rapper has more of a shelf life than actor.

How so?

I just think it will be hard for me to be a relevant rapper when I'm 50. But as an actor I might be like... Will Ferrell is still killing it. Larry David, look at him—he's an older guy. I just think the second half of my life I think will be primarily acting, but that almost makes me want to prioritize rap even more than I ever have, because I know that I only have so many years of being able to be relevant in that space.

"Dave" sees you wearing many hats and expanding your creative roles beyond music. What sorts of creative challenges did you face when you started this project? How did you try to overcome them?

I guess the main challenge is one of ignorance in the sense that… there's no test in our history I can lean on… I'm no longer nervous about doing concerts because I can, in my head, think of all the concerts I've done and know that it's going to go well because I've done this in the past. When I make a music video, I'm like, "Oh, I've done this. I know it's going to end up being good, because I've done it so many times." [With the] TV show, it's my first time doing it.

As much as I believe in myself, I don't have any context. Doing the whole thing with an ignorance of, "Am I even doing the right thing?", was a challenging perspective. But I think I was able to overcome that by just going with my gut more. There's a reason I haven't put out an album in five years, because I can just dwell on an issue and just nitpick and try to correct it over and over again.

And with the TV show, you got to make a decision and move on. It's like I'm almost forced to make decisions in ways that I'm not in music. And going into it, that was a fear because I'm like, "Oh, I like taking my time and being able to really think things through." And with this, sometimes you just got to make a decision, go with your gut and react. And that was daunting initially. But I think by the end, it was almost liberating, because it's like I do have good instincts and I think trusting my instincts is a good thing to do. And I think it's a relief to not be able to dwell on certain things for so long, because then a guy like me can just spin in circles.

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"Dave" is a fictionalized version of your life and career. How much of the scenes and scenarios that happen in the show, if anything at all, really happened in your life?

There's lots of truth in it. I couldn't give you a percentage. But I definitely pull from a lot of real-life experiences. And a lot of things you've seen in the show actually did happen. Even some of the things that feel really ridiculous and impossible, some of those things happened in real life. So, it's just kind of a combination.

Your character in the show, Dave, has a hard time convincing people to take his music and art seriously. Did you ever face that yourself as Lil Dicky?

Yeah, for sure, I think even still now, sometimes it's like, "Oh, is he even a real rapper? Or he kind of just like a [musical comedian] 'Weird Al' [Yankovic]?" It's not a big, enormous plight that I have, but there have been times where I'm onstage waiting to do a sound check and I'm sitting there and the sound guy is like, "So when is the rapper going to get here?" And I'm just like, "I'm here. Literally, I'm waiting." I think a lot of times it surprises people. It's hard for people to take being funny seriously, even though I don't think it's mutually exclusive. I think I can be funny and still very musically credible.

It's easy to look at a rapper named Lil Dicky—who acts the way I do, the content's the way it is, and his rap name is a small penis joke—and not inherently feel like taking him seriously as a rapper. But I really think I should be taken very seriously as a rapper. I don't even feel remotely satisfied in terms of accomplishing my rap dream. I can't wait to be taken even more seriously.

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Who are some of your inspirations as a rapper and as an actor?

As a rapper, the first two names that are coming to my head are Kanye [West] and Drake. And as an actor, I think about Larry David, I think about guys like Seth Rogen. I don't really think about [Leonardo DiCaprio], even though I know he's the best actor of my generation. I don't think about him as an inspiration to me. I think about comedians when I think about actors.

That being said, I want to be a great actor. I want people, when they watch my show, to be like, "Oh, he's a really good actor, too." I take pride in the acting, but I think inspirationally, I was always inspired by comedians.

Will Smith is the ultimate because I think he entered as a funny rapper and then transitioned to an iconic TV show and then became, honestly, one of the best and most revered movie stars of his time. He's a great model.

Read: LISTEN: Childish Gambino Drops New Album ‘3.15.20’

The show depicts your character Dave struggling with splitting the Lil Dicky persona and Dave, the actual person. In a previous interview, you've also mentioned that you're "sick of being called Lil Dicky" when you meet someone. That seems to be a big theme on the show and in your real life.

Yeah, I think I face it every day. Especially before the show, I put so much into my music career to the point where I can become isolated and not do X, Y, and Z. I had a girlfriend, but… Lil Dicky became more of my priority to my own relationship. I guess I'm just a hyper-ambitious person. When people meet me on the street, people say, "Man, you're really Lil Dicky? Rap for me." It's like, "Yes, I am a rapper, but I'm also a human being just going about my life." I prefer people [taking] that into account than think that I'm just the guy they see in a music video popping a bottle of champagne or whatever I'm doing.

I wouldn't say in real life it's constantly a battle of Lil Dicky versus Dave. For me, it's always a battle of being a prisoner of my own ambition, because I feel like it requires every ounce of my energy to achieve what I feel capable of achieving. But I know that there's more in life than just achieving X, Y, and Z creatively.

I feel like if life is a circle and satisfaction's a circle, half of that circle is creative endeavors, and a half probably divided for me in two halves between music and comedy. And then there's still a whole other half of life that I think is equally as important to me, which is falling in love and having a family and all your relationships and friendships. I just don't want to neglect that other half forever.

I'm sure a lot of that is going to change now with this new level of fame via "Dave."

I don't know. I've been stuck inside ever since the show's come out, so I haven't really been able to feel that. But already, for whatever reason, I get stopped and noticed more in public than I really probably should. I get stopped at such a ridiculously high rate, even before the show, that I'm kind of used to being stopped. There was like one week of traveling I did while the show was out, and I was surprised by how many people in just one week had come up to me. It wasn't like, "Hey, man. Love the music." It was like, "Hey, man. Love the show."

I think what the show does, is it contextualizes Lil Dicky, and I think people love Lil Dicky because they relate to him. I think that's why people come up to me more, because if they saw Diddy in an airport, they'd probably be scared to go talk to him because he's so larger-than-life and I'm so not. I think the show just amplifies that relatability, because instead of me rapping all those things, it's just me being myself on camera. I've always, in my head, thought that I'm creating a life that will be as impacted by fame as possible, unfortunately. But time will tell.

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"Dave" is now part of a long history of cultural crossovers between the hip-hop and comedy worlds. Wu-Tang Clan founder RZA has acted and appeared in several comedies. Comedians Aziz Ansari and Dave Chappelle are both huge hip-hop fans. Why do you think there's so much crossover between hip-hop and comedy?

I don't know that answer. They're both entertaining, and I think they both give people an escape when they experience them. I think people love to laugh and be distracted from their day and be happy and laughing. I know when I was a kid, I wanted nothing more than to listen to Kanye talk about himself and his life and that escape and just living through another artist vicariously. I think like all art, people can relate to it and escape their own reality and enjoy something different. I don't really have a good answer for that, but it is interesting. I think both are just very cool.

I think one of the things that seems attractive for both industries, perhaps, is the concept of storytelling within each of those individual worlds, whereas a comedian, you can build a long, detailed narrative in your standup sets in the same way you can build worlds in a hip-hop album. In the same vein, hip-hop artists and comedians share their personal lives and vulnerabilities quite openly in their individual art.

That's the answer. I'm going to use that.

You want to steal my answer?

Yeah, what you said.

Have you ever thought about making "Dave," the movie?

Very roughly, but I got to think about making "Dave" [the TV show] season two first. I don't know the future, in terms of what I'll want to do or not want to do. But knowing how all-encompassing and time-consuming and, like, every detail matters so much to me, I don't know how I can be like [FX TV show] "It's Always Sunny [In Philadelphia]," where I'm on for 13 years. I just feel like I won't have a life if I do that. I've never thought about it like, "Oh, this is going to be a 13-season show." I think about it a little differently. But I don't know the answer to that. I have thought about the movie. But it's like, why don't I see where I'm at after, like, four seasons and see what needs to be resolved?

Read: Chika Confronts Music 'Industry Games' With Candor & Confidence On Her Major-Label Debut

Are you enjoying this new experience, this new creative challenge?

Oh, absolutely. I've always, first and foremost, wanted to be a comedian. I believed in myself as a comedian. That kind of is what drove me to become a rapper. And as much as I love rap, and I've always loved hip-hop, it wasn't even necessarily something I saw coming to the extent that I always saw this coming. So, it's very validating just to have a different outlet. I've been working on an album for like four-and-a-half years; you get a little burned out by it. 

We finished editing [the show] last week and now it's the first week where I'm not editing. So, I can now work on my album again, and now I'm excited to get back into music. Where before the show, nine months ago, I was ready for a break from the music. I think having both of these things is a very powerful thing for me, because like anything, you do it too much, you get a little bit burned out and it's not good to feel sick of doing something when you're trying to be funny and creative.

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Do you approach your music and the show in completely different creative mindsets? Or is there any artistic overlap?

I would say the common theme is, I call it "no stone unturned." I'm very much a no-stone-unturned kind of guy. Even if there's a moment in a scene where the take is perfect, I'll still look at every other take, just to make sure there's not one that's maybe slightly better. I really do exhaust every option, so that way I have the internal peace of mind that this moment in this piece of art cannot be better.

I think I do that exact same thing in music and everything. It's very nitpicky and hyper-neurotic and exhausting. But for me, it yields the ultimate peace of mind that I know that this could not have been better. Once I do that and I have that feeling, then I'm OK with the results. But it's like, just make sure that you don't leave anything on the table.

Do you foresee yourself continuing to work in film and TV as an actor as well as behind the scenes as a writer and producer?

I think I'm just getting started, but yes. Right now, I think I have so much on my plate with just my music career and my TV show. But I think when it's all said and done, yes, I'll try to get my hand as a producer or a writer, a production house—all those types of things. I think I will have a very active presence in the comedy and film space for the rest of my life.

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4 Reasons Why Eminem's 'The Slim Shady LP' Is One Of The Most Influential Rap Records
Eminem

Photo: Sal Idriss/Redferns/GettyImages

list

4 Reasons Why Eminem's 'The Slim Shady LP' Is One Of The Most Influential Rap Records

Eminem’s major label debut, 'The Slim Shady LP,' turns 25 on Feb. 23. The album left an indelible imprint on hip-hop, and introduced the man who would go on to be the biggest-selling artist of any genre in the ensuing decade.

GRAMMYs/Feb 23, 2024 - 03:44 pm

A quarter century has passed since the mainstream music world was first introduced to a bottle-blonde enfant terrible virtuoso who grabbed everyone’s attention and wouldn’t let go

But enough about Christina Aguilera.

Just kidding. Another artist also exploded into stardom in 1999 — one who would become a big enough pop star, despite not singing a note, that he would soon be feuding with Xtina. Eminem’s biting major label debut The Slim Shady LP turns 25 on Feb. 23. While it was Eminem's second release, the album was the first taste most rap fans got of the man who would go on to be the biggest-selling artist in any genre during the ensuing decade. It also left an indelible imprint on hip-hop.

The Slim Shady LP is a record of a rapper who was white (still a comparative novelty back in 1999), working class and thus seemingly from a different universe than many mainstream rappers in the "shiny suit era." And where many of those contemporaries were braggadocious, Eminem was the loser in his rhymes more often than he was the winner. In fact, he talked so much about his real-life childhood bully on the album that the bully ended up suing him.  

It was also a record that played with truth and identity in ways that would become much more difficult once Em became world famous. Did he mean the outrageous things he was saying? Where were the knowing winks, and where were they absent? The guessing games that the album forced listeners to play were thrilling — and made all the more intense by his use of three personas (Marshall Mathers the person; Eminem the battle rapper; and Slim Shady the unhinged alter ego) that bled into each other.

And, of course, there was the rhyming. Eminem created a dizzying array of complicated compound rhymes and assonances, even finding time to rhyme "orange" — twice. (If you’re playing at home, he paired "foreign tools" with "orange juice" and "ignoring skill" with "orange bill.")

While the above are reason enough to revisit this classic album, pinpointing The Slim Shady LP's influence is a more complicated task. Other records from that year — releases from Jay-Z, Nas, Lil Wayne, Ludacris, and even the Ruff Ryders compilation Ryde or Die Vol. 1 — have a more direct throughline to the state of mainstream rap music today. So much of SSLP, on the other hand, is tied into Eminem’s particular personality and position. This makes Slim Shady inimitable; there aren’t many mainstream rappers complaining about their precarious minimum wage job, as Em does on "If I Had." (By the time of his next LP, Em had gone triple-platinum and couldn’t complain about that again himself.)

But there are aspects of SSLP that went on to have a major impact. Here are a few of the most important ones.

It Made Space For Different Narratives In Hip-Hop

Before Kanye rapped about working at The Gap, Eminem rapped about working at a burger joint. The Slim Shady LP opened up space for different narratives in mainstream rap music. 

The Slim Shady LP didn't feature typical rags-to-riches stories, tales of living the high life or stories from the street. Instead, there were bizarre trailer-park narratives (in fact, Eminem was living in a trailer months after the record was released), admissions of suicidal ideation ("That’s why I write songs where I die at the end," he explained on "Cum on Everybody"), memories of a neglectful mother, and even a disturbing story-song about dumping the corpse of his baby’s mother, rapped to his actual child (who cameos on the song). 

Marshall Mathers’ life experience was specific, of course, but every rapper has a story of their own. The fact that this one found such a wide audience demonstrated that audiences would accept tales with unique perspectives. Soon enough, popular rappers would be everything from middle-class college dropouts to theater kids and teen drama TV stars.

The Album Explored The Double-Edged Sword Of The White Rapper

Even as late in the game as 1999, being a white rapper was still a comparative novelty. There’s a reason that Em felt compelled to diss pretty much every white rapper he could think of on "Just Don’t Give a F—," and threatened to rip out Vanilla Ice’s dreadlocks on "Role Model": he didn’t want to be thought of like those guys. 

"People don't have a problem with white rappers now because Eminem ended up being the greatest artist," Kanye West said in 2015. You can take the "greatest artist" designation however you like, but it’s very true that Eminem’s success meant a categorical change in the status of white rappers in the mainstream.

This turned out to be a mixed blessing. While the genre has not, as some feared, turned into a mostly-white phenomenon, America’s racial disparities are often played out in the way white rappers are treated. Sales aside, they have more room to maneuver artistically — playing with different genres while insulting rap a la Post Malone,  or even changing styles completely like Machine Gun Kelly — to commercial approbation. Black artists who attempt similar moves are frequently met with skepticism or disinterest (see André 3000’s New Blue Sun rollout, which was largely spent explaining why the album features no rapping). 

Sales are worth speaking about, too. As Eminem has repeatedly said in song, no small amount of his popularity comes from his race — from the fact that white audiences could finally buy music from a rapper who looked like them. This was, as he has also bemusedly noted, the exact opposite of how his whiteness worked for him before his fame, when it was a barrier to being taken seriously as a rapper. 

For better, worse, or somewhere in between, the sheer volume of white rappers who are currently in the mainstream is largely traceable to the world-beating success of The Slim Shady LP.

It Was Headed Towards An Odd Future

SSLP laid groundwork for the next generation of unconventional rappers, including Tyler, the Creator.

Tyler is a huge Eminem fan. He’s said that listening to Em’s SSLP follow-up The Marshall Mathers LP was "how I learned to rap." And he’s noted that Em’s Relapse was "one of the greatest albums to me." 

"I just wanted to rap like Eminem on my first two albums," he once told GQ. More than flow, the idea of shocking people, being alternately angry and vulnerable, and playing with audience reaction is reflected heavily on Tyler’s first two albums, Goblin and Wolf. That is the template The Slim Shady LP set up. While Tyler may have graduated out of that world and moved on to more mature things, it was following Em’s template that first gained him wide notice. 

Eminem Brought Heat To Cold Detroit

The only guest artist to spit a verse on The Slim Shady LP is Royce da 5’9". This set the template for the next few years of Eminem’s career: Detroit, and especially his pre-fame crew from that city, would be his focus. There was his duo with Royce, Bad Meets Evil, whose pre-SSLP single of "Nuttin’ to Do"/"Scary Movies" would get renewed attention once those same two rappers had a duet, smartly titled "Bad Meets Evil," appear on a triple-platinum album. And of course there was the group D12, five Detroit rappers including his best friend Proof, with whom Eminem would release a whole album at the height of his fame.

This was not the only mainstream rap attention Detroit received in the late 1990s. For one thing, legendary producer James "J Dilla" Yancey, was a native of the city. But Eminem’s explosion helped make way for rappers in the city, even ones he didn’t know personally, to get attention. 

The after-effects of the Eminem tsunami can still be seen. Just look at the rise of so-called "scam rap" over the past few years. Or the success of artists like Babyface Ray, Kash Doll, 42 Dugg, and Veeze. They may owe little to Em artistically, but they admit that he’s done great things for the city — even if they may wish he was a little less reclusive these days

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Westside Gunn On How Virgil Abloh & "Coming To The End" Of His Rap Career Inspired 'And Then You Pray For Me'
Westside Gunn

Photo: Prolifickid

interview

Westside Gunn On How Virgil Abloh & "Coming To The End" Of His Rap Career Inspired 'And Then You Pray For Me'

A self-proclaimed "super-vet" of the rap world, Westside Gunn knows his time as a rapper is nearing its finale — but first, he wants to "give you a journey" with his new album, 'And Then You Pray For Me.'

GRAMMYs/Oct 18, 2023 - 02:07 pm

When Westside Gunn refers to himself as "the king of the underground," it's not hyperbole. The veteran rapper has spent the last decade-plus providing hip-hop with a streetwise, neo-boom-bap style that echoes heavily in the music of today. And as the founder of independent hip-hop label Griselda (and its related rap collective), Gunn's influence is felt through stars like his brother, Conway the Machine, his cousin, Benny the Butcher, and the enigmatic Mach-Hommy. 

But Gunn considers himself more a curator than a musician. He is obsessed with fashion and high art, more prone to mention going to see opera or buying a painting than jumping into a rhyme cipher.

All of Westside Gunn's obsessions come together on his new album And Then You Pray For Me. The rapper is positioning the project as a sequel to his 2020 LP Pray For Paris, which was inspired by Gunn attending a Paris Fashion Week runway show as a guest of the late Virgil Abloh. Abloh was the art director for both albums, which feature figures from iconic artworks laden with Gunn's signature chains; And Then You Pray For Me uses both the Mona Lisa and Caravaggio's The Entombment of Christ

While the 21-track album features plenty of Gunn's trademark neo-boom-bap sounds, he updates things a bit by including some songs that have a trap music influence. It contains stellar guest turns from old friends like Conway, Benny, Stove God Cooks, Rome Streetz, and Boldy James. But there are also surprising appearances from artists you might not normally associate with Griselda — Jeezy, Rick Ross, Denzel Curry, and Ty Dolla $ign.

Gunn has recently referred to And Then You Pray For Me as his last album, but don't expect him to slow down. He's making movies, planning big moves in the fashion world, and continuing to guide the careers of other artists. 

GRAMMY.com caught up with Gunn as he was, naturally, shopping in New York City's SoHo neighborhood ("I'm over here on Mercer [Street], so it's Lanvin, Balenciaga, Marni, Bape — it's all right here," he boasts). We discussed his creative pairing with Abloh, why he's really a curator at heart, and his views on underground rap's evolution over the past decade. 

The conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Not to start on a super serious note, but as I was preparing for this conversation, I realized that we just passed the 17-year anniversary of the murder of your cousin, rapper Machine Gun Blak. If he could see you now, and if he could hear the new album, what do you think he might say?

First of all, he'd be all on [the album]. But he'd be super proud, man. Even when he's not here, he's one of my biggest fans, I feel like. His energy is Westside Gunn. Westside Gunn is a perfect example of Machine Gun Blak — just the raw, the grittiness. The grimy part of Westside Gunn, that's Machine Gun Blak. That's his spirit.

But I think he would love this album. It's a great piece of work. It's my favorite that I ever worked on. Out of all my projects ever, this is the most fun I ever had making one. 

Does it feel like it's been 17 years since he died?

Nah. It doesn't seem like 17 years, honestly. And it's crazy because I just went to his grave site. I remember [the day he died] like it was yesterday. I vividly remember that day — what was going on, what I was doing, where I was going, everything.

Where were you when you found out? 

See, back in those days, that's when we were still in the streets. So I was just about to go make a move. I was talking to him on the phone, and I was like, "I'll hit you when I get over to Atlanta." Because at that time, I was making moves. That's before all of this. It's the things I rap about now. When you hear the lyrics, these are those days. 

He called me, and it was a situation. He was talking about it, and I was like, "Sorry to cut you off, but I gotta go handle this. When I get there, I'll hit you back so we can finish talking about it."

At that time I was still catching the Greyhound from Alabama to Atlanta. But it was crazy because I missed the bus, and I never miss the bus. So I was on my way back to the house in Alabama, and my grandma called me.  

This era of your career, which this album is a cap to, began in 2012 when you realized you had to step up and be an artist because Conway The Machine had gotten shot and you weren't sure he'd be able to rap anymore. I've always been curious about your state of mind at that moment.

Even then I was still in-the-streets Gunn. We was working so hard, man. I was acting as his manager and investing my bread, my time. I really wanted Conway to be the biggest artist in the world. Unfortunately, when he got shot, it was a devastating blow.

Of course, that's my brother. That's the number one thing. And it was also like, the streets is crazy. I thought, I'm a smart guy. If I just put in my effort, I could really make this happen. At that time, I was really in the streets, and I felt like the [other] rappers weren't. It was like, you're really rapping about us

It was that kind of mentality — that if I come in this game, can't nobody touch me, because I'm as real as it comes. I just put my hustle skills from the streets into this, and it all worked out. 

During the heyday of that era of Griselda, you guys released a flood of projects — dozens and dozens of mixtapes and albums. 

It was a flood. It was the craziest flood since No Limit [Records].

What was a typical day like for you when all that was going on, circa the mid-2010s?

Just being at [producer] Daringer's house. Getting high, eating f—in' Franco's pizza, drinking Loganberry, and Daringer cooking the craziest beats you ever heard in your life. The rest is history. Just having fun, man. Everybody had they hustles. Believe it or not, even Daringer was hustling! We from Buffalo, man.

You've always been someone who understood the importance of branding. Even on early Griselda projects, you'd promote GxFR [Griselda by Fashion Rebels, Gunn's clothing line at the time]. 

Yeah, because that's the thing: Griselda Records comes from Griselda by Fashion Rebels. I had the clothing brand first. I was already doing a clothing line and it was just like, What am I going to name this record company?

I've always been into fashion. I actually do more fashion-related things than hip-hop-related things. I'm a true designer. I've been designing since I was a kid, and that's the thing that I want to get into more. 

I've been rhyming since '12. That's over a decade. If we're looking at NBA years, NFL years, I'm already a super-vet. I'm not trying to be one of them dudes that went from averaging 40 a game to now I'm averaging five, looking crazy and old. 

I know when to gracefully bow out. And I know I'm coming to the end. I don't want to keep rapping forever about the same things, because in my life I'm maturing. I'm doing other things. I'm collecting art. I'm going to see operas. 

But it's not the end right now. Right now, I just want to give people the best music. And I also want to let people in. I've been doing these [YouTube] episodes for this album where I've been letting people into my life for the first time in my career. Everybody has been loving it. 

For the first time, people are actually getting to see the inside of Westside Gunn's life. I think that's one of the things that I lacked on, was letting people in. If I would have let people in a long time ago, I'd be way bigger. But everything is about time, and I'm not tripping.

Before I hang up the mic, I still want to kind of give you a journey with the music. This new project, it's a super different vibe. I've never made an album sound like this. It's the perfect art piece that I could have possibly created.

It's just the space I'm in in life. It comes with maturity — traveling the world, kids getting older, things like that. You can hear the music has matured. It's still raw though. That's the thing about me. I'm still gonna give you that Griselda Westside Gunn. That's never gonna change. I'm not going too far out of context. 

For this album, you've introduced the alter ego "Super Flygod." What does that name mean? 

Listen, man, Super Flygod right now is talking to you with a ponytail. I'm on another level. Super Flygod is what I've always been, but times 10. I'm super bougie. I love five-star meals. I love five-star hotels. I love wearing $10,000 outfits. I love getting massages. I love smelling good. I love just looking good. That's Super Flygod. 

It's just a different energy. It's something the game never seen before. I did the unthinkable at least 100 times already. I'm still doing it. 

What was it like for you to see Conductor Williams — a producer who has worked with Gunn and Griselda for many years — land a single on a Drake album?

Beautiful. That's what we do it for. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, and that's be on the No. 1 album in the world. He deserves all of that. That's what we're in this game for — to be able to leave a legacy and take care of our babies. So for him to be on the No. 1 album, that's a super blessing. 

That's the thing about Conductor — it's just gonna be the beginning. He's on my new album a few times. So he's gonna have a hell of a month. It's the biggest month of his life. Business is booming for Conductor. 

You've used the word "curation" a lot over the course of your career, and especially in regards to this album. What does that word mean to Westside Gunn?

First of all, that's my favorite thing to do on an album. Curation from me is me. I can curate for you, I can curate for MC Hammer. It's you, but it's me

When I curate a project, that's me naming every song, that's me picking every beat, that's me doing the sequence, that's me making the art cover, that's me doing the merch. You see what I'm saying? It's you, but it's me. All you're doing is showing up and rapping. That's all you gotta do.

Virgil Abloh is credited with art directing this album's cover. What did that mean, specifically? 

When I went out to Paris [for Paris Fashion Week in 2020], I really wasn't going to make music. I just felt the energy from Virgil having me out there. When I hit him and told him it was done, it was just like, "There's only one person that can do this cover." It had to be him. 

Virgil was an icon. So to have Virgil cooking up for you is already legendary. This don't happen to nobody from Buffalo, man. But when he was cooking, he was making me multiple pieces. At first, the idea was, I'm gonna do a trilogy [of Pray albums]. I was gonna have the Mona Lisa be the picture that represents all three of them together. I was thinking [of a] box set, with a Mona Lisa front and three different covers inside. 

Once he passed, it changed what I wanted to do with it. But we were already talking about dropping [a second Pray album]. We were already going to re-release the first shirts we did, and I was going to do new ones. But when [his death] happened, I put everything on a standstill and I didn't really know how I wanted to approach it again.

It was like, Damn, should I do the trilogy, or should I just make it a part two? I had different options. At the end of the day, it was just like, I think I'm just going to finish it up. I really want to give the people the work we created together before I throw in the towel. I felt it was only right. That's something that I want the world to always see and remember — what me and him cooked up together.

You say in your new YouTube documentary series that this new album will probably go over people's heads. What aspects of it do you think people might not get initially, or take a few years to catch up to?

The same reason why they're catching up now to the s— that I was doing five years ago, and everybody acts like it's new. I've always been ahead of my time. Always. I probably get copied off of the most in the industry. But you see that I've always gotten respect from everybody: from the Drakes, from the Tylers, the Rockys, Kendricks, Coles, anybody. I'm a one-of-one. It's never been seen before. 

The respect I get, it could be on a mainstream level, but then I could still be on an underground level. I can do something with an Estee Nack, but then turn around and do a song with Mary J. Blige. That's who Westside Gunn is. I got songs with everybody you can possibly think of, rhyming-wise or production-wise. All the legends, even our fallen legends. I can't even think of no other emcee that got a record with Sean Price, Prodigy, DMX, and MF DOOM. It's impossible to name another one. 

Westside Gunn is so cultured, people don't even understand. That's what I mean about [being] over people's heads. People still don't even get it. They're scratching their head, like, "How is this guy on [Kanye West's] Donda? How is this guy on [Travis Scott's] Utopia?"

There's a big part of underground rap now that can be traced directly to what Roc Marciano began doing in 2010, and what you guys started doing just a few years later. What do you think when you see a lot of your aesthetic from that time in the current underground scene?

The current underground scene, I'm loving it. Because you gotta think — at that time, like you said, it was only really Roc Marci, Action Bronson — a couple heads. That's in the space that we come from. Of course, we still had the J. Coles and Big Seans and all that, but that was another lane. We're in the same neighborhood, two different streets. 

But on our street, people on the block was Roc Marci and Action Bronson. Danny Brown, he lived on the block. People like that. When I came on the scene, that's all it was. But I took the bull by the horns. Like I said, I'm a hustler. I was still hustling in the street. I had a hustler mentality, and once I told myself I had to quit cold turkey, I never looked back. I just went extra hard. 

With the new heads, I'm proud of them. At the end of the day, I'm happy that I was able to be somebody that they could study. That they could see these vinyl deals or how this merch is played — I'm kind of like the blueprint. I'm not going to say I'm the king of the underground, but I'm the king of the underground.

Even though I'm the king of the underground, I'm still on Donda. I'm still on Utopia. I'm still making all these big songs and these big records. And even yesterday, we put up the Post Malone clip saying if he could work with anybody, it'd be me. 

I'm the one that put the most points on the board, in every way possible. But this is also showing the new heads, If I could work hard, I'm gonna be the next Roc Marci, I'm gonna be the next Action Bronson in that space.

What is the possibility of getting the original Griselda trio of you, your brother and your cousin back together for a project? 

That's coming in '24. You don't even you got to ask twice. That's already done, my brother. 

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016
Kendrick Lamar

Photo: Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016

Upon winning the GRAMMY for Best Rap Album for 'To Pimp a Butterfly,' Kendrick Lamar thanked those that helped him get to the stage, and the artists that blazed the trail for him.

GRAMMYs/Oct 13, 2023 - 06:01 pm

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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Lil Yachty Wants You To Be "Ready For Everything" At The Field Trip Tour
Lil Yachty performs at Rolling Loud Miami in July 2023.

Photo: Jason Koerner/Getty Images

interview

Lil Yachty Wants You To Be "Ready For Everything" At The Field Trip Tour

As Lil Yachty hits the road for his 42-date global tour, the rapper details how he'll be bringing his trippy album 'Let's Start Here' to life — and why he feels like his seven-year career is only just getting started.

GRAMMYs/Sep 25, 2023 - 06:11 pm

Fans first got to know Lil Yachty for his catchy, sing-songy tunes like "One Night" and "Minnesota," rap songs that sound like the rapper's once-signature red braids: bright and attention-getting. But as the man who once dubbed himself the "king of the teens" has now become a father in his (gasp!) mid-20s, his musical horizons have expanded. 

While Lil Boat is still making catchy tracks  (see his minute-and-a-half long earworm "Poland," released last fall), his latest album is something else entirely. Inspired by big statement LPs like Pink Floyd's 1973 classic Dark Side of the Moon, Lil Yachty's Let's Start Here is a psychedelic record created with members of Chairlift and MGMT, as well as Mac DeMarco, Alex G and a handful of other out-of-the-norm collaborators. While the style change may have been unexpected for many, it came out exactly as Yachty envisioned it.

"It felt future-forward, it felt different, it felt original, it felt fresh, it felt strong," he says. "I'm grateful for the response. It's nice to have people resonate with a body of work that you've worked so hard on and you care so deeply about."

Yachty's most recent release, a four-song single pack featuring the swirling "TESLA," brings him back to a more traditional hip-hop style — by Lil Boat standards, anyway. But even with the four new tracks sprinkled throughout the set list, he's still determined to share the sound and vibe of Let's Start Here with his listeners. 

The Field Trip Tour, which Lil Yachty kicked off in Washington, D.C. on Sept. 21, brings the album's trippy vision to the stage. The rapper recruited an all-women band for his latest trek, which includes Lea Grace Swinson and Romana R. Saintil on vocals, Monica Carter on drums, Téja Veal on bass, Quenequia Graves on guitar, and Kennedy Avery Smith on keys.

"My life is surrounded by women," Yachty explains. "I feel like they are the most important aspect to this world and that they don't get enough credit or shine — especially Black women."

GRAMMY.com caught up with Yachty as he was on his way to rehearsal to chat about the tour, the album, and what he learned from four old British guys.

You made your band auditions public by announcing them on social media, which is not the usual way of going about these things. When you had the auditions, what was it like? How many people showed up?

Hundreds of women came from all over. People sent in auditions online. It was so fun to hear so much music and see talent and meet so many different personalities. I felt like Simon Cowell.

Other than musical ability, what were you looking for?

It was nothing more than talent. There would be multiple people with extreme talent, so then it became your own creative spunk: what did you do that made me say, "Oh, okay. I like this. I like this"? I wanted a badass group.

What was behind the decision to put the call out for women only? 

My life is surrounded by women — my two assistants, my mother as a manager, a lot of my friends are women. Women really help me throughout my day. 

I just think that women are so powerful. I feel like they rule the world. They are the most important aspect to this world and they don't get enough credit or shine, especially black women. So that was my aura behind it. I just wanted to showcase that women can shred just as good as men. 

Is the band going to be performing on your older rap material as well, in addition to the album cuts? 

No. I'm not a big fan of rendition rap songs. I think the feeling is in the beat, the feeling is in the instrumentation. When you have to reconstruct it, the bounce gets lost a bit.

Tell me about the rehearsal process once you selected the band members. What was that like? 

They're all so talented, so they all learned it very quick. I gave [the music] to them early, and gave them the stems. When it was day one, they all knew the songs. Even my new guitarist that came in later than everyone, she came in knowing the music. 

The rehearsal project for this tour was a little different, because I'm reconstructing the whole album. I'm moving everything around and changing all the transitions and trying to make it trippy. So it's a process of me figuring out how I want to do things. But they're so talented and so smart, all I have to do is tell them what I want, and they'll do it instantly. 

Like yesterday, I wanted a solo on the end of a song called "The Alchemist." Because at the end of [the album version] is this [singer Brittany] Fousheé breakdown and she's singing in a falsetto. But I took her vocals off and I wanted a solo. And [a band member] was working through it yesterday and it wasn't quite there. But I'm on the way to rehearsal now, and I know when I walk in this room, it'll be done. It'll be crazy. So they all take it very serious and they care, and I love them so much. 

The festival shows you've done so far have had everyone in Bantu knot hairstyles, sometimes with face paint. Is that going to be the look for this tour? 

No, I don't think so.

What was the thinking behind that look? 

I was getting really deep into the world of '70s bands, '60s bands. Just unison: moving as one, looking like one, feeling like one. A family, a group, a team. You see us, we're all together. 

When you play rap shows, so much of what you're doing is keeping a high-energy mood—getting the crowd going, starting mosh pits. With the new songs, it's about a diversity of feelings. What was that like for you as a band leader? 

I'll tell you, it was not easy. I've been in this industry for seven years, and my shows have been high-energy for seven years. So the first time I went on a stage and performed Let's Start Here, I felt like, "Oh wow, they hate me. Do they hate this?" Plus I have in-ears, so I can't hear the crowd cheering. I don't perform with in-ears when I do rap shows. 

It took me some time to get used to the switch. Tyler, the Creator once had a talk with me and explained to me that, it's not that they don't f— with you, it's that they're taking it in. They're comprehending you. They're processing and enjoying it. That clicked in me and I got a better understanding of what's going on.

What is it like in the same show to go from the Let's Start Here material to the rap stuff? 

It's a relief, because that's going to my world. It's super easy for me. It's like flipping the switch and taking it to the moon.

Now that it's been the better part of a year since Let's Start Here came out, how are you feeling about it? What sense do you have of the reaction to it?

Since before it came out, when I was making it, I always felt so strongly because it was something that I felt inside. It felt future-forward, it felt different, it felt original, it felt fresh, it felt strong. 

I'm grateful for the response. It's nice. It's not what you do it for, but it is extra credit. It's nice to get that love and to have people resonate with a body of work that you've worked so hard on and you care so deeply about.

Have you felt peoples' reactions change over the past few months? 

Well, this is the first time when people are like, "Man, that album changed my life" or "It took me to a different place." People love my music — always have — but this reaction is, "Man, this album, man, it really took me there." 

It did what it was supposed to do, which was transcend people. If you are on that side of the world and you're into that type of stuff, it did its job, its course — the same course as Dark Side of the Moon, which is to take you on a journey, an experience. 

What was it about Dark Side that grabbed you? 

Everything. The cover, the sounds, the transitions, the vocals, the lyrics, the age of Pink Floyd when they made it. I could go on. I got into deep fascination. It was so many things. It's just pure talent.

**I've read that you studied Pink Floyd quite a bit, watching interviews and documentaries. What were some of the things you learned from that process and brought to Let's Start Here?**

So many things. The most important element was that I wanted to create a body of work that felt cohesive and that transcended people, and that was a fun experience that could take you away from life.

I was curious about the song ":(failure:(," where you give a speech about failing. What were your inspirations for that?

"Facebook Story" by Frank Ocean, which is about a girl who thought he was cheating on her because he wouldn't accept her on Facebook. It inspired me to talk about something. 

At first I wanted [":(failure:("] to be a poem, and I wanted my friend to say it. We tried it out, but his voice was so f—ing deep. And his poem was so dark — it was about death and s—. I was like, Damn, n—, lighten up. But then I was just like, you know what, I'll do it, and I'll speak about something very near and dear to me, which was failure. I felt like it would resonate with people more.

**The idea of time shows up on the album a lot, which is something it has in common with Dark Side of the Moon. You talk about running out of time. What are you running out of time to do?** 

Sometimes I feel like I'm growing so fast and getting so old, and maturing and evolving so quickly, and so many opportunities come into my life. You go on tour, and then you start working on an album, and you run out of time to do certain things. It's like, "Are we going to be together? If not, I have other things to do." 

I think that's where it comes from. I don't have all day to play around. Too many things to do. Then it transpires to feel like I'm running out of time.

I love "drive ME crazy!" I was wondering if there are any particular male/female duets that you looked at as a model when designing that song. 

Fleetwood Mac. Again, with all the inspirations for these songs, I still did my twist on them. So I don't want people to go and be like, "Oh, that sounds nothing like a Fleetwood Mac song." I wasn't trying to copy a Fleetwood Mac song. It just inspired me to make a song in that feeling, in that world.

When you began your career, you were the "king of the teens." Now you're a father in your mid-twenties. Who's your audience these days? Is it the people who were teens when you started your career, who are now in their 20s like you, or is it a new crop of teenagers? 

I think now it's from the 12-year-olds to the 40-year-olds. My last festival, I had 50-year-olds in my show. That was so amazing. In the front row, there was an 11-year-old asking for my sneakers, and then in the back, it was 50- and 60-year-olds. It was crazy. The age demographic is insane.

Whenever I'm leaving somewhere, I like to have the window down and see people. [At my last festival] these 60-year-olds were leaving. They're like, "Man, your album, we love it. That show was so great." And that's awesome, because I love [that my music can] touch everyone. 

You've been opening your recent shows with "the BLACK seminole." What does that phrase mean to you? How does it relate to the sound of the song and the rest of the lyrics?

It's saying, "I'm a warrior, I am a king, I am a sex symbol, I am everything good and bad with man, and I'm Black, unapologetically." That's what it's about. 

Any final thoughts about the tour? 

Just that it's an experience. You're not walking into a rinky-dink [show with] some DJ. This is going to be a show

I feel like it's the start of my career. I just want people to come in with an open mindset. Not expecting anything, ready for everything. 

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