Photo: Simon Procter
Natalie Imbruglia Opens Up About Grief, Unconditional Love & Her Reclamatory New Album 'Firebird': "I Always Fly Home To Myself"
For Aussie singer/songwriter and "Torn" hitmaker Natalie Imbruglia, writer's block isn't just an annoyance; it amounts to paralysis. That's where her comeback album 'Firebird'—her proverbial rising from the ashes—comes in
Quick, someone edit the Wikipedia entry for "impostor syndrome" to include a picture of Natalie Imbruglia: She's its rightful Exhibit A, and she knows it.
Sure, the Aussie singer/songwriter, actress and model's strummy alt-rock single "Torn" might have ripped through pop culture back in 1997, resonating with lovesick suburban teens the world over. But as she freely admits, the dilemma of what to do next hasn't just been annoying or demoralizing: It's amounted to a decades-long, near-total spiritual paralysis.
"I think I've spent most of my career just thinking I'm going to get found out. That I have no idea what I'm doing," the three-time GRAMMY nominee tells GRAMMY.com over Zoom from a London hotel room. (Her tiny dog, Mr. Wilson, yaps away on the bed behind her, adding to the "nagging inner voice" vibe.) "Certainly, when I started my career, I didn't expect anything to go well," she continues. "Then I had a song that I covered that connected with the whole world."
The stress of following up "Torn" "with the whole world watching" was basically poison to Imbruglia's psychology. But it got worse: When her 2009 album Come To Life—the product of three years of work and her last album of original material—only got a limited release in a few countries and stalled out commercially, she decided to drop the Sisyphean ordeal and quit music altogether.
"I would say that crushed me pretty hard," she says with a weary laugh. That is, until Firebird, her proverbial rising from the ashes with high-profile collaborators like KT Tunstall and the Strokes' Albert Hammond, Jr., which will be released September 24.
How did Imbruglia wrest herself from the writer's-block mire and craft uplifting singles like "Built it Better," "On My Way" and "Maybe It's Great"? For one, she became a parent, which connected her to a previously untapped matrix of unconditional love. She also learned how to muzzle her inner doubter and get out of her own way.
To be sure, Imbruglia remains a naturally anxious cat, rattling off her insecurities in her Down Under accent. But that's just how she's wired, and she's learning to overcome it every day. "[I'm] keeping the critic out of the room and just having a playful heart," Imbruglia says. "It doesn't need to be so serious." Learn how that metamorphosis happened in the below, in-depth interview with GRAMMY.com.
This interview has been lightly edited and condensed for clarity.
This is your first album of original music in more than a decade. What's been going on in your life in the interim?
Oh, gosh. What hasn't gone on in that time?
I don't know if you know that I quit music for a while and took quite a big break and studied acting. It comes out in [2015’s] Male. I did that album, and I think during that whole period, I had writer's block but wasn't really being honest with myself about that. And then my label I was signed to made me do a covers album before they'd let me do original material.
I did that, but I have to say, that tour was really amazing. I reconnected with my fans. I really missed singing my own stories, so it just motivated me to want to be on stage singing my words. You know?
Despite that rough stuff, Firebird is such a flourishing for you. How did these songs grow from scratch, since you had been away from this world for a while?
It's actually been an amazing experience. I think when you go through something like that, it's weird to not be able to touch or feel something that you've done your whole life. For me, to not be able to write and feel like it was something I lost confidence in doing was quite hardcore.
So, I started the process with Luke Fitton, Rachel Furner and Fiona Bevan in the U.K., but I still felt like I was wobbly on my feet, you could say. I told my management I wanted them to book me a trip to Nashville. I don't know if you know that on my first album, the song "Smoke" was written under a tree in Nashville with a guy called Matt Bronleewe. I'm quite familiar with the work ethic there.
I just had this feeling that the structure of the way they write in Nashville—if you kind of line up the sessions to a day, whatever—I thought it was going to be terrifying, especially jumping in with a lot of new writers and people I don't know. But I thought "It's going to do something great," you know? Sometimes you have to get out of your comfort zone, and that's what happened.
At the start of it, I feel bad for some of the people I was working with because I didn't really have the confidence to have an opinion. But I think by the end of that writing session, it was like… if you keep saying "Yes," like [Overly amenable voice] "Yeah, sure! We'll write that," and it's not who you are, that gets really tired.
I think by the end of it, I really found my voice. It was the song "When You Love Too Much" that really encapsulated exactly what the writer, Caroline Watkins, and I were talking about. The heartbreak we'd been through.
And then—when you have a song at the end of it—I just got really excited and was reminded why I love the process.
Tell me more about that song and the emotional information it contains.
Well, we'd both been through a lot. We both loved too much. So, we were swapping stories and just talking about the pain of that. How do you deal with that and grow from that? Is that something you can change about yourself, or is this kind of how we're destined to be?
So, it was just kind of the open chat when you meet somebody who's got a similar story—or affliction, you could say—and to be able to encapsulate it is what it's about. I guess I'm more of a storyteller and emotional conveyor—a communicator—more than I'm a songwriter or a singer or anything.
That needs to land, so I'm always really focused on [that fact that] I want people to have some payoff from it. I want them to feel relief from this particular thing. And if that's not happening, I have to keep going back, going back, going back. It's an interesting process.
Did becoming a mother put you back in contact with those emotions?
100 percent. I also think yearning to be a parent has got to be connected to the writer's block. Clearly, that was something important to me, and it was a long journey to get there through relationships, single—the whole thing has been a long journey.
When I finally was pregnant, I think it was like an exhale. I'm sure, for creativity, that's got to kind of have timed around when I was having this creative flow. Yeah, unconditional love, the experience of being a parent, the unknown—all those things were amazing for writing.
When crafting the sound of the record, what did you want to draw from as far as music already out there in the ether that you love?
You know, I don't start with "I want to make this style of an album." I don't start with a genre. I start with writing my truth, which is why I have so different genres of song. But I feel like my voice ties things together, so I feel like each song is its own little universe. I really go song by song, and the hard part of that is how I'm going to tie this into an album. That's where picking the right producer is vital.
There are songs that were [potential] hits that I left off for the thing you're talking about. I still approach an album with an arc to it. Old-school. So, some of them, subject-matter-wise, didn't fit the story of this album. When I was doing my tracklisting, I was like, "This one doesn't really fit," so I took it off.
But sound-wise, it was my first co-production. I never go so far into pop land that I feel it's inorganic. I love real instruments, so there's always real guitar and things like that. It's just a case of: There'll be slight influences, or I'll have an artist in mind or a feeling or a color or a track or a something.
To answer your question, I'm usually approaching each song as its own little thing. I write a lot and then deal with tying it together at the end. So, I don't even know what you would say the sound of the album is, but I think [collaborators] My Riot were very good at helping me get that thread through.
I really love the electronic sounds they choose. It's very organic. I don't like things to be jarring. I like them to feel like "Dive to the Deep." The electronic sound in "Just Like Old Times" makes the chorus for me, because it's sparkly and happy. These things are emotive, so any kind of sound is to evoke a particular emotion for the song.
"Dive to the Deep" was like, "Guys, this has to sound underwater!" I say the weirdest things. I'm kind of thinking in pitches. I'm not a [trained] musician, so the way I communicate with my musicians is a little bit random, but it seems to work.
Tell me about working with Albert Hammond, Jr. on this project.
Oh my gosh. So, we've been friends a long time. I remember back in the day, he said we should write together and I was too scared. I'd go "Yeah, sure!" and brush it off, but I was actually like, "Oh my god, I could never do that. I might pass out."
I think once I got past this writer's block, I had the courage to reach out to him. And he was up for it, thank god. He didn't say no. It was just about finding a time we could do it. Luckily, he was in L.A. while I was in Australia and he was like, "Oh my gosh! I love Byron Bay! Why don't I just come there?" My friend has a studio in Byron.
Gus [Oberg] was with him, so Gus came out. He's a producer, engineer and friend—bestie. So they came out, and the three of us had this amazing week at Rockinghorse Studios. Imagine this amazing studio out in the hinterlands, in a rainforest, in nature. We had the place all to ourselves. There was a pool. I mean, it was just idyllic! It was fun!
He's got a great sense of humor. Musically, he just starts playing whatever over a beat and the guitar is like another voice in the room. It's very melodic. So, I found the process with him very easy.
In the bigger picture, though, it's seems like hesitancy and trepidation have followed you throughout our career. Where do you think that comes from? What questions pop up in your mind?
Oh, I think I've spent most of my career just thinking I'm going to get found out. That I have no idea what I'm doing. For a very long time. Certainly, when I started my career, I didn't expect anything to go well. [Laughs.] Then I had a song that I covered that connected with the whole world.
I was like, "Whoa! Everyone's watching!" and then I had to deal with that and write a second album. I kind of had to learn my chops with everyone watching, which, at times, is painful. But to be honest with you, at this point, it's really nice because I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I don't really get that fear. I think when you've had writer's block for that long, nothing's more scary than that.
I did a writing session with a guy where he came from Scotland with his friend, Roy Hart. He's a great songwriter, musician, radio DJ, et cetera, and I couldn't open my mouth. He was in my house with the keyboard set up, everything, and I was like, "Should I get a coffee?" I just couldn't do it! That was pretty traumatizing.
And I think at that point, writer's block is beyond that kind of fear and trepidation. It's just kind of paralysis. I don't know. It's bizarre. I think you can overthink things and you have to learn that you can have a day where you are a s* songwriter and the very next day, you can be prolific. That has nothing to do with you. You're pulling these songs from the ether.
I write my melodies walking. I have to move. If I try and sit down, it's like I'm trying too hard. I think it's also learning techniques to get out of your own way, keeping the critic out of the room and just having a playful heart. It doesn't need to be so serious.
Is there any other advice you'd give someone with writer's block? Any specific exercises to get the machine whirring again?
Yeah, it's like that book "The Artist's Way" [says about] writing. I think you have to show up. It has to be a discipline and a practice.
I would encourage anyone to do that and show up and cry and deal with the fact that you've written a bunch of s* songs, which I had to do. Some of which we had a row about—me and my managers rolled around on the floor. But, so what? Who cares? Then you do the good songs! So, dare to fail, right?
Give me a line on Firebird that you think sums up everything we've been talking about.
"Don't worry, I'm steady / A firebird, I'm ready / I always fly home."
What does that mean to you?
So many things. I think it's a message to myself about when I feel like I'm losing it—is that I always fly home to myself. I always get my equilibrium back, whether that means depression—whatever that means.
I had my son in mind. I was thinking of lots of different things when I wrote that song. I was thinking about being someone that can't be pinned down. And ultimately, I'm here, but it's an "I'm always here for you, but you're on your own" kind of thing. Things like that.
It's interesting, when I wrote that song: The first day of writing that, it was the last track on the album, and I said to Romeo Stodart, "Before I write this track, I want it on the album." The head of the label said it was already too late. I said, "We're doing this. It's happening. The album has to be called Firebird because I'm the firebird. We have to do this."
The first day, I had nothing. I said "Romeo, I'm not feeling anything. I don't know what's going on, if it's a full moon…" He said, "Chill, Nat. We can just talk today. We don't have to." He's so chill! Having people around you that can take all the pressure out—"We've got loads of time. Two days is a long time. Let's just chat. Let's just get back into each other's energy."
On the second day, it just flowed through me. I'd lost a friend to cancer. It was actually the funeral that day. I lit a candle and I asked her, "Help me write the song." So then, the themes of the song became death and crossing over and flying home in that way. I think my friend kind of hijacked that one.
I'm sorry to hear about your friend. That's tremendously rough.
Yeah. But, you know, she lived her life as someone who was a firebird. She is someone who sucked the marrow out of life, so I don't feel sad for the life she had. I feel sad for the people she left behind. She would have loved that I dedicated that song to her on my album, and that makes me happy.
When it comes to loved ones who've passed on, I've found it's more constructive to talk about them in life than as some faceless dead person.
Yeah, I talk to her all the time. She still has me in stitches even now, when I think about what she would be saying to me. I have a very open relationship with those kinds of things on the other side. It's not hard for me to feel like she's here with me.
Natalie Imbruglia. Photo: Simon Procter
What have you been listening to lately?
I've been listening to the Black Keys—their latest album [Delta Kream]. I've been listening a lot—still—to Leon Bridges. I just can't give it up. I'm obsessed. It's just so mellow and yummy and lovely. I really love Willa Amai. She's really special. Her voice is magical. She's almost whispering. I wish I could sing in the way that she does. There's barely any sound coming out. I find her beautifully haunting and I love her lyrics.
Is there anything else about Firebird we didn't touch on that you'd like to impart?
I just feel like a lot of the songs are about independence and discovering inner strength and being unapologetic about that. The road less traveled being actually quite a cool thing.
I'm just excited for them to be out there in the world. I recorded this album in lockdown, so the beauty of that was that I was able to go over it with a fine-toothed comb over and over and over, much to my co-producers' annoyance. But I'm so happy I didn't rush anything, and just letting it be out there in the world is really exciting.
Do you think we'll have to wait several more years for the next one? Or are you back on that creative path for good?
I'm trying so hard to not take a long time! I've already said to my managers, "Let's get on it." But, you know, I'm Mediterranean. Maybe I'm just a little bit lazy. I don't know. It might not happen! But I'm hopeful.
Press Play On GRAMMY U Mixtape: New Year, It’s Poppin'! Monthly Member Playlist
The GRAMMY U Mixtape is a monthly, genre-spanning playlist to quench your thirst for new tunes, all from student members. GRAMMY U celebrates new beginnings with fresh pop tunes that will kickstart 2023.
Did you know that among all of the students in GRAMMY U, songwriting and performance is one of the most sought after fields of study? We want to create a space to hear what these students are creating today!
The GRAMMY U Mixtape, now available for your listening pleasure, highlights the creations and fresh ideas that students are bringing to this industry directly on the Recording Academy's Spotify and Apple Music pages. Our goal is to celebrate GRAMMY U members, as well as the time and effort they put into making original music — from the songwriting process to the final production of the track.
Each month, we accept submissions and feature 20 to 25 songs that match that month’s theme. This month we're ringing in 2023 with our New Year, It's Poppin'! playlist, which features fresh pop songs that bring new year, new you vibes. Showcasing talented members from our various chapters, we felt these songs represented the positivity and hopefulness that GRAMMY U members embody as they tackle this upcoming year of exciting possibilities.
So, what’s stopping you? Press play on GRAMMY U’s Mixtape and listen now on Spotify below and Apple Music.
Want to be featured on the next playlist? Submit your songs today! We are currently accepting submissions for songs of all genres for consideration for our February playlist. Whether you write pop, rock, hip hop, jazz, or classical, we want to hear from you. Music must be written and/or produced by the student member (an original song) and you must be able to submit a Spotify and/or Apple Music link to the song. Students must be a GRAMMY U member to submit.
About GRAMMY U:
GRAMMY U is a program that connects college students with the industry's brightest and most talented minds and provides those aspiring professionals with the tools and opportunities necessary to start a career in music.
Throughout each semester, events and special programs touch on all facets of the industry, including the business, technology, and the creative process.
As part of the Recording Academy's mission to ensure the recorded arts remain a thriving part of our shared cultural heritage, GRAMMY U establishes the necessary foundation for music’s next generation to flourish.
Not a member, but want to submit to our playlist? Apply for GRAMMY U Membership here.
Photo: Rachel Kupfer
A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea
James Brown changed the sound of popular music when he found the power of the one and unleashed the funk with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag." Today, funk lives on in many forms, including these exciting bands from across the world.
It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.
Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.
Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.
In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.
Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.
There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.
Say She She
Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.
While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."
Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.
Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.
Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.
Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.
L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.
During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.
Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.
Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.
Photo: Steven Sebring
Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage
"One foot in the past and one foot into the future," Billy Idol says, describing his decade-spanning career in rock. "We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol."
Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP, Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.
Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.
Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face."
But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life.
His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves.
Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)
Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") — their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.
While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens.
Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.
Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up.
Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically.
"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?
We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds.
We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick.
I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?
Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol.
You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way.
Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?
I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier.
I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff.
So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.
[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.
I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.
Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?
I did, yes.
You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?
I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.
It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.
But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is] informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.
Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.
We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.
It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].
We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.
You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.
It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.
When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.
You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?
Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."
We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.
You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.
With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.
Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.
You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?
I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.
But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.
I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?
I think it was his car.
Did he get over it later on?
He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.
Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?
In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.
We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.
The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.
There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.
It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.
It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.
Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?
Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.
The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.
The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?
Yeah. Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].
Graphic: The Recording Academy
Hear All Of The Best Country Solo Performance Nominees For The 2023 GRAMMY Awards
The 2023 GRAMMY Award nominees for Best Country Solo Performance highlight country music's newcomers and veterans, featuring hits from Kelsea Ballerini, Zach Bryan, Miranda Lambert, Maren Morris and Willie Nelson.
Country music's evolution is well represented in the 2023 GRAMMY nominees for Best Country Solo Performance. From crossover pop hooks to red-dirt outlaw roots, the genre's most celebrated elements are on full display — thanks to rising stars, leading ladies and country icons.
Longtime hitmaker Miranda Lambert delivered a soulful performance on the rootsy ballad "In His Arms," an arrangement as sparing as the windswept west Texas highlands where she co-wrote the song. Viral newcomer Zach Bryan dug into similar organic territory on the Oklahoma side of the Red River for "Something in the Orange," his voice accompanied with little more than an acoustic guitar.
Two of country's 2010s breakout stars are clearly still shining, too, as Maren Morris and Kelsea Ballerini both received Best Country Solo Performance GRAMMY nods. Morris channeled the determination that drove her leap-of-faith move from Texas to Nashville for the playful clap-along "Circles Around This Town," while Ballerini brought poppy hooks with a country edge on the infectiously upbeat "HEARTFIRST."
Rounding out the category is the one and only Willie Nelson, who paid tribute to his late friend Billy Joe Shaver with a cover of "Live Forever" — a fitting sentiment for the 89-year-old legend, who is approaching his eighth decade in the business.
As the excitement builds for the 2023 GRAMMYs on Feb. 5, 2023, let's take a closer look at this year's nominees for Best Country Solo Performance.
Kelsea Ballerini — "HEARTFIRST"
In the tradition of Shania Twain, Faith Hill and Carrie Underwood, Kelsea Ballerini represents Nashville's sunnier side — and her single "HEARTFIRST" is a slice of bright, uptempo, confectionary country-pop for the ages.
Ballerini sings about leaning into a carefree crush with her heart on her sleeve, pushing aside her reservations and taking a risk on love at first sight. The scene plays out in a bar room and a back seat, as she sweeps nimbly through the verses and into a shimmering chorus, when the narrator decides she's ready to "wake up in your T-shirt."
There are enough steel guitar licks to let you know you're listening to a country song, but the story and melody are universal. "HEARTFIRST" is Ballerini's third GRAMMY nod, but first in the Best Country Solo Performance category.
Zach Bryan — "Something In The Orange"
Zach Bryan blew into Music City seemingly from nowhere in 2017, when his original song "Heading South" — recorded on an iPhone — went viral. Then an active officer in the U.S. Navy, the Oklahoma native chased his muse through music during his downtime, striking a chord with country music fans on stark songs led by his acoustic guitar and affecting vocals.
After his honorable discharge in 2021, Bryan began his music career in earnest, and in 2022 released "Something in the Orange," a haunting ballad that stakes a convincing claim to the territory between Tyler Childers and Jason Isbell in both sonics and songwriting. Slashing slide guitar drives home the song's heartbreak, as Bryan pines for a lover whose tail lights have long since vanished over the horizon.
"Something In The Orange" marks Bryan's first-ever GRAMMY nomination.
Miranda Lambert — "In His Arms"
Miranda Lambert is the rare, chart-topping contemporary country artist who does more than pay lip service to the genre's rural American roots. "In His Arms" originally surfaced on 2021's The Marfa Tapes, a casual recording Lambert made with Jack Ingram and Jon Randall in Marfa, Texas — a tiny arts enclave in the middle of the west Texas high desert.
In this proper studio version — recorded for her 2022 album, Palomino — Lambert retains the structure and organic feel of the mostly acoustic song; light percussion and soothing atmospherics keep her emotive vocals front and center. A native Texan herself, Lambert sounds fully at home on "In His Arms."
Lambert is the only Best Country Solo Performance nominee who is nominated in all four Country Field categories in 2023. To date, Miranda Lambert has won 3 GRAMMYs and received 27 nominations overall.
Maren Morris — "Circles Around This Town"
When Maren Morris found herself uninspired and dealing with writer's block, she went back to what inspired her to move to Nashville nearly a decade ago — and out came "Circles Around This Town," the lead single from her 2022 album Humble Quest.
Written in one of her first in-person songwriting sessions since the pandemic, Morris has called "Circles Around This Town" her "most autobiographical song" to date; she even recreated her own teenage bedroom for the song's video. As she looks back to her Texas beginnings and the life she left for Nashville, Morris' voice soars over anthemic, yet easygoing production.
Morris last won a GRAMMY for Best Country Solo Performance in 2017, when her song "My Church" earned the singer her first GRAMMY. To date, Maren Morris has won one GRAMMY and received 17 nominations overall.
Willie Nelson — "Live Forever"
Country music icon Willie Nelson is no stranger to the GRAMMYs, and this year he aims to add to his collection of 10 gramophones. He earned another three nominations for 2023 — bringing his career total to 56 — including a Best Country Solo Performance nod for "Live Forever."
Nelson's performance of "Live Forever," the lead track of the 2022 tribute album Live Forever: A Tribute to Billy Joe Shaver, is a faithful rendition of Shaver's signature song. Still, Nelson puts his own twist on the tune, recruiting Lucinda Williams for backing vocals and echoing the melody with the inimitable tone of his nylon-string Martin guitar.
Shaver, an outlaw country pioneer who passed in 2020 at 81 years old, never had any hits of his own during his lifetime. But plenty of his songs were still heard, thanks to stars like Elvis Presley, Kris Kristofferson and Waylon Jennings. Nelson was a longtime friend and frequent collaborator of Shaver's — and now has a GRAMMY nom to show for it.