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Grrrl Power
Sara Marcus

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Grrrl Power

Documenting the impact of the '90s riot grrrl movement

GRAMMYs/Oct 22, 2021 - 11:54 pm

From Bob Dylan's protest songs in the '60s to Rage Against The Machine's leftist rants in the '90s, socially conscious music has often been celebrated for its boldness and progressive vision.

In the early '90s, riot grrrl emerged as a vibrant feminist punk movement in the Pacific Northwest, led by bands such as Bikini Kill, the Butchies, Excuse 17, Heavens To Betsy, and Third Sex, among others. Riot grrrl, which generally attracted high school girls and young women not far removed from their teens, drew criticism from both the mainstream and underground music media. For the young women and girls in the movement, media accusations that they resembled whiny children rather than righteous revolutionaries felt like an extension of the institutionalized sexism that had been used to oppress women for centuries.

"We were young and we were doing something that was really important to us," says Kathleen Hanna, former vocalist for Bikini Kill, arguably the movement's preeminent band. "It was a time when feminism was considered ridiculous. There's still a lot of that around today. We were not only ridiculed in the mainstream press, but we were also hated in the underground magazines."

Approximately 20 years later, riot grrrl is receiving acceptance as a viable social and musical movement with a lasting impact. The Fales Library & Special Collections at New York University has established a riot grrrl collection to document the evolution of the movement. Fanzines, journals, flyers, clippings, photographs, and video footage are some of the materials that have been donated to the collection by riot grrrl artists. The collection will provide primary resources for scholars studying feminism, punk activism, gender theory, and music history.

The fanzines, in particular, were a critical component of the movement. Homemade riot grrrl zines, including provocative titles such as Housewife Turned Assassin, were often personal reflections on feminist issues such as reproductive rights, violence against women, unequal pay in the workplace, and stereotypical female body image expectations.

Girls To The Front, an in-depth book examining the history and importance of riot grrrl, was released this past September. Authored by former riot grrrl participant Sara Marcus, the book attempts to bring clarity to the movement and dispel lingering misperceptions. For example, the book aims to punctuate the point that riot grrrl was not just about music, but a scene that also embraced meetings on important female issues, national conventions, social activism, art, fanzines, and other devices designed to empower females.

"Riot grrrl had become this vague cloud of anything that happened in the early '90s that had to do with women and loud music," says Marcus, who first became involved in the movement as a high school student living in suburban Maryland in the mid-'90s. "But that [inaccurate definition] leaves out the zines and teenagers having meetings. It definitely became a scene of the music world, which did keep the idea that there was this thing called riot grrrl alive. So many movements that don't have a musical component completely vanish."

As an indispensable founding figure in the riot grrrl movement and one of its most political outspoken exponents, Hanna discovered firsthand the power riot grrrl and music had in bringing hope and solace to people in crisis. Her prior experience volunteering at rape relief and domestic violence shelters helped her counsel fans via letters or even in person after concerts.

"A lot of women that I met or wrote me letters would say they felt too nervous to go to a rape relief place or to call a crisis line," Hanna recalls. "They felt more comfortable talking to me because they felt they knew me through the music. I was doing crisis counseling in back alleys after shows. Then the mail started pouring in and it was mostly girls, but sometimes boys, who had experienced sexual violence. I always tried to point them in a good direction."

By the time the riot grrrl movement began to wane in the mid-'90s, chapters had been planted in major cities from New York to Los Angeles and Chicago, and in heartland areas such as Oklahoma, Minneapolis and Texas. There were also scenes in other countries, including Brazil, Canada, England, Scotland, and Switzerland. Some of these chapters were small, but provided a testament to the movement's international reach.

The youth-oriented profile may have helped energize the riot grrrl movement, but it also contributed to its demise.

"People aged out of it pretty quickly because it was largely about expressing a certain kind of anger and clearing up a certain kind of confusion that's really endemic to late adolescence," Marcus says. "For a movement to really endure, it's helpful to have some continuity. You need some people to stick around to bring the next people up to speed. That's not something that happened."

Riot grrrl's influence has been felt significantly in music and society. In the late '90s the Spice Girls adopted the scene's girl power theme. Edgier female artists such as Fiona Apple and Alanis Morissette emerged as successful mainstream artists. Today, riot grrl's theme of empowerment is also noticeable in organizations such as Girl Rock Nation, which is designed to motivate and inspire young women in music.

"Riot grrrl was obviously a huge influence on young girl's ability to see themselves as rock musicians. There's certainly no longer a sense that a girl can't play the guitar or drums," says Lisa Darms, senior archivist at Fales Library & Special Collections, who is overseeing the riot grrrl collection.

Hanna is reminded of the movement's influence whenever she hears from women who grew up with riot grrrl. Some now thank her for writing back to them when they were troubled or searching teens. Marcus and Hanna also say that there are quite a few women from the movement that are now working in the media and able to help spread the riot grrrl spirit through their work.

Is the time ripe for a riot grrrl revival?

"I'll say that I definitely hope that my book is going to help spark young people to have some of these conversations that were so important to me and my friends when we had them at that age," states Marcus. "But I hope that [there isn't] a riot grrrl revival. I hope people form something on their own that arises directly out of their own conditions and not out of a wistfulness for a past moment that they missed."

(Jon Matsumoto is a Los Angeles-based freelance writer.)

8 Bands Keeping The Riot Grrrl Spirit Alive
(Clockwise from top left): Mommy Long Legs, Tacocat, Skating Polly, The-Regrettes, Panic Shack

Photos: Allyce Andrew; Helen Moga, Travis Trautt; Lissyelle Laricchia; Ren Faulkner

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8 Bands Keeping The Riot Grrrl Spirit Alive

Since the early '90s, the riot grrrl movement has served as a guide for music that addresses socio-economic issues and the exclusion of women in punk. Decades later, a new wave of female-fronted punk bands embody the attitude and ethos of riot grrrl.

GRAMMYs/Nov 21, 2023 - 03:26 pm

In the early 1990s, a group of women in Olympia, Washington, came together to address the pervasive sexism and male-dominated nature of  their local punk scene. These women decided to spark a "girl riot" and gave birth to the riot grrrl movement, providing a platform for female-fronted bands in a male-dominated genre.

Approximately 60 miles north in Seattle — where the grunge scene was dominated by bands like Nirvana and Soundgarden — female-led groups like Bikini Kill and Bratmobile were experiencing the same challenges and were determined to break into a largely unwelcoming scene.

While often categorized as a punk subgenre, riot grrrl is more about implementing messages about social activism within a song than a particular sound. Riot grrrl's do-it-yourself ethos promoted both artistic expression and activism —  often seen through independently published and zines socially progressive themes in music. As a result, riot grrrl infiltrated mainstream media and captured the attention of a broad audience.

Although no longer in its heyday, riot grrrl's influence persists. Young, female-led bands continue to use the movement as a blueprint to  address injustices, center the talents of women (and non-cis men), and make noise.  Read on for eight bands that continue to embody the spirit of riot grrrl today.

Dream Wife

Since their debut in 2016, Dream Wife has made their mark in the punk scene with politically-charged music and a feminism-motivated agenda. Unapologetically embracing the DIY mindset of the riot grrrl movement, Dream Wife cites the New York-based band Le Tigre as one of their biggest influences.

"The sense of community in the riot grrrl movement is something that we take to heart," Rakel Mjöll, lead vocalist from Dream Wife, told Buzz Mag earlier this year. "If you have a platform, you have to share it, however big or small it is."

On their 2023 album Social Lubrication, Dream Wife explores the patriarchal expectations and pressures that weigh upon women. The conflict is laid out clearly in songs such as "Who Do You Wanna Be?": "When the movement becomes part of the patriarchal system we swore to tear down/So what do we do?" The answer, of course, is to forge their own path.

The Regrettes

Los-Angeles based band the Regrettes may not entirely consist of female-identifying members, but they are still renowned for the riot grrrl influence in their music. Lead singer Lydia Night has been touring since she was 12 years old, and made waves for her age and outspoken nature.

With three studio albums and countless tours under their belt, the Regrettes has found its way into mainstream media — and for all the right reasons. The band blurs the lines between indie-pop and punk, producing a genre-fluid sound that is coupled with empowering lines about feminism.

On their popular 2017 track "Seashore," a then 16-year-old Night owned her youth. Proudly, she sang about not allowing herself to get belittled by older people: "You're talkin' to me like a child/But my words are growin' stronger/And my legs keep gettin' longer."

Skating Polly

Skating Polly has perfected the raw DIY aesthetic, from being self-taught musicians to their homemade-looking music videos The band is a family affair, with sisters Kelli and Kurtis Mayo joined by their stepsister Peyton Bighorse.

While the band still addresses political inequality within their songs, those themes don't  dictate their entire identity. "I think girls deserve to be able to write songs that aren’t just simply about politics," Kelli told Alternative Press in 2018. "Not everything should be about standing up for your rights. Girls should be able to write songs about whatever the hell they want, the same things that men want to write about."

Panic Shack

From performing at SXSW to opening for Yard Act, the Welsh band Panic Shack has been making noise in the indie music scene. Although their music fits the general definition of a punk band, with raw vocals and loud, stripped-down guitar riffs, they reject the label. Panic Shack unapologetically promotes feminism and aim to inspire younger female-identifying artists and increase the representation of girl bands.

"When we were younger all you saw were men in guitar bands, so it didn’t cross our minds that it could be something we, as girls, could ever do," guitarist Romi Lawrence told Guitar.com. "If us being a band that other girls can look to and be inspired to pick up an instrument by or write a song, then our job is done."

In their song "I Don't Really Like It," Panic Shack convey a powerful message succinctly: "When you look at me like that/I don't really like it/Hey, when you talk to me like that," which are repeated for nearly four minutes straight. The track underscores the importance of promptly acknowledging and respecting someone's feelings when they express their dislikes, without the need for repetition, with the central message overall protesting catcalling and the objectification of women. 

Softcult

From crafting a monthly zine to writing and producing their own music, the Canadian duo Softcult epitomizes what the riot grrrl movement stood for.

While citing Bikini Kill as one of their greatest influences, Softcult infuses shoegaze and dream pop into their punk sound.  In their latest EP, See You In The Dark, Softcult illuminates several pressing subjects, from sexism to climate change. In standout track "Drain," Softcult channels their frustration toward corporate and political entities who prioritize capitalism over environmental concerns. 

The duo recently wrapped a U.S. tour opening for Movements, but their current trajectory suggests that they’ll be headlining venues in no time.

Cheap Perfume

Hailing from Colorado, Cheap Perfume fearlessly confronts and critiques patriarchal systems. Importantly, within their feminist values, the group preaches intersectionality.

Through their track "Fight Like a Girl," Cheap Perfume reclaims the term "girl" as a source of empowerment, challenging the notion that women should remain quiet and submissive. The song dismantles the criticism women face when they speak out against injustice, highlighting how women are often unfairly judged for their actions, and reinforces the need for change.

"To us, feminism is believing in the equity of all people, especially those who are oppressed or viewed as lesser in society," Cheap Perfume’s guitarist told Westword in 2021. "I really think that feminism is for anybody who wants to fight for the rights of women, and that’s all women. So that's including trans women and all kinds of different folks from different backgrounds." 

Tacocat

Founded in 2012, Seattle band Tacocat emerged as a refreshing force within the contemporary riot grrrl movement. What sets them apart is their inclusion of pop elements, which bring a catchy and infectious quality to a genre known for its raw, unapologetic sound.

One of the band's standout moments was when their track "Grains of Salt" was featured prominently in the Netflix film Moxie. The film follows a young protagonist as she kickstarts a feminist zine to empower her female-identifying peers. Tacocat's music, with its roots firmly planted in social consciousness, serves as a perfect complement to the movie's empowering message. Their songs are also thought-provoking, characterized by witty lyrics and a lighthearted sound.

While Tacocat is currently on hiatus, their legacy lives on through their three studio albums. Filled with guitar-driven melodies and lyrics that make listeners ponder, their music is a testament to riot grrrl’s everlasting influence. 

Mommy Long Legs

Proudly dubbing themselves as a barf-core and brat-punk band from Seattle, Mommy Long Legs takes jabs at sexism, racism, and gentrification throughout their discography.

On "Ditched You," the quartet casts the spotlight on an individual who claims to be a feminist, yet in reality, is a performative activist. Behind the facade of allyship, the character speaks down to women, exhibiting the traits he once claimed to oppose. Thus, Mommy Long Legs leaves the character behind and "ditches him." The catchy song critiques inauthentic efforts, and pushes for genuine commitment to social change.

Mommy Long Legs  also use glitter as their weapon of choice, decorating their faces with it, in efforts to reclaim and redefine the idea of femininity in a society that has also determined their idea of what femininity is.

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016
Kendrick Lamar

Photo: Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016

Upon winning the GRAMMY for Best Rap Album for 'To Pimp a Butterfly,' Kendrick Lamar thanked those that helped him get to the stage, and the artists that blazed the trail for him.

GRAMMYs/Oct 13, 2023 - 06:01 pm

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

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He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea
Franc Moody

Photo: Rachel Kupfer 

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A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea

James Brown changed the sound of popular music when he found the power of the one and unleashed the funk with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag." Today, funk lives on in many forms, including these exciting bands from across the world.

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:23 pm

It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage
Billy Idol

Photo: Steven Sebring

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Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage

"One foot in the past and one foot into the future," Billy Idol says, describing his decade-spanning career in rock. "We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol."

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:19 pm

Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bamback in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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