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GRAMMYs

Sisqó 

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Sisqó Talks 20 Years Of "Thong Song" sisq%C3%B3-talks-20-years-thong-song-sampling-beatles-getting-props-madonna

Sisqó Talks 20 Years Of "Thong Song," Sampling The Beatles & Getting Props From Madonna

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The four-time GRAMMY nominee talks to the Recording Academy about the genesis of his 1999 smash hit and what it has in common with "Old Town Road"
Dan Weiss
GRAMMYs
Dec 2, 2019 - 11:15 am

Mark "Sisqó" Andrews was making sizable waves in his R&B group Dru Hill and on Will Smith's "Wild Wild West" in the late '90s when he stumbled into one of the most quotable, unforgettable hits of the millennium while crafting his solo debut, Unleash The Dragon, which just celebrated its 20th birthday. While the ballad "Incomplete" went number-one on the Hot 100, the tune you undoubtedly remember from it was "Thong Song," a worldwide smash that shamelessly nicked from Ricky Martin, "The Flight Of The Bumblee," some horny Baltimore friends, and almost, just almost, the Beatles. Not bad for a song that infamously likened a woman's derriere to a dump truck.

But if you're among the many who still have that lone verse permanently grafted in your memory (not least because Sisqó repeats it three times), it’s a classic from the skittering beat and silky strings to the stuttered delivery of the woman's eveningwear it celebrates: that thong-th-thong-thong-thong. The song's defiant catchiness and fourth-wall-breaking silliness have kept it afloat for two decades now, from its four GRAMMY nominations to its use in "Pitch Perfect 2." We spoke to Sisqó via phone about how "Thong Song" has changed his life over the last two decades.

You sang "Thong Song" at your wedding last year. How did your extended family react to that?

It's 2019, 2020. Whatever "Thong Song" was back then, how risqué it was, it's like Disney now in comparison. [Laughs.] When I recorded the song there were a lot of things you couldn't say or do in songs or in videos. Fast forward to today, it’s super tame. It’s my kids' favorite song. When it came out there was some debate over whether soccer moms should let their kids hear it because I was on tour with 'NSYNC. But if you actually listen to the song, I was really careful with the lyrics. It was like… what's that new song from the country dude? [Starts singing "Old Town Road."]

"Old Town Road"?

"Thong Song" was "Old Town Road" back then. With my kids, it goes right in the playlist with "Old Town Road."

Who was the little girl at the beginning of the "Thong Song" video that finds the underwear?

That little girl was my daughter! She was four or five years old then, my daughter Shaione. She will be 24 on December 23.

Has she commented on her part in the video in the 20 years since she's grown up?

Here's the thing. My younger daughter, Kamiqo, is five. She saw my oldest daughter from a previous relationship on that video, and because they're now the same age, when she watches the video now, she mimics her big sister to a T: "Daddy, daddy." Her iPad was in front of her at dinner, so I thought she had the video on. But it was her saying it, just in perfect pitch with the video. [Laughs.]

You sampled the Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby" originally before going in a different classical direction with the strings. Did the lyrics or music come first?

Tim & Bob were the producers, they'd produced a couple of hits and they were super talented. They had sent me a CD with a bunch of tracks on it, and what became "Thong Song" was really just a 30-second snippet at the very end of a CD that had about 23 songs on it. It was a sample of the Beatles' "Eleanor Rigby." I was like, "You guys have got some incredible tracks on this CD, but that snippet at the end, could you stretch that?" So they looped it for me and that's what I "wrote" to. "Wrote" is in quotes because I freestyled every song, ever since Dru Hill's "How Deep Is Your Love," off the top of my head.

How long did it take to write that iconic verse?

The one that repeats three times? [Laughs.] It was fairly quick. Like I said, it was a freestyle, so as it was playing I came up with the verse all the way up the "Livin' La Vida Loca" part. "How Deep" had a really, like, Spanish vibe to it. After that, the "Latin Invasion" happened in America, and I truly believe I might have had something to do with that. After Ricky Martin came out, I was truly trying to pay it forward. I wasn't really sure how to end the verse or what the chorus was gonna be, and that's where the infamous story came in. The night before, I had a date with the young lady who showed me her thong. It was like "The Ten Commandments" movie when he went to the mountaintop and came down and his hair was all white. Literally what happened. My hair's jet black but if you notice in the video, it was platinum silver. [Laughs.]

The next day, a close friend of mine comes in, Kidd, he was like "Yo, I went on a date today, guess what this girl gave me?" I was like, "What?" And he was like, "That thong-th-thong-thong-thong!" And it was like a mushroom cloud. I bust out laughing. He was like, "She had dumps. Like a dump truck. Beep beep. She had dumps like a truck." So he left to go, you know, find more thongs, and I was flowing and you know the music doesn't change, that’s the genius of the song, so any change had to come from the vocals. So that's when I came up with "dumps like a truck, truck, truck." It fit like surgically in the beat. And 20 years later, we're still laughing all the way to the bank.

Does the person who was wearing it know that the song was inspired by her?

You know, I don't even remember the person. It was very long ago, I wasn't married… I wish I remember who the person was. Or maybe not so much. Maybe they were one of the many people who tried to sue me who got thrown out of court like three times. Everybody tried to cash in on that song, it was bananas.

Who was the most unexpected person to tell you they were a fan of the song?

David Copperfield! He apparently had the music in his show, I spoke to him on the phone. He sent me an autographed copy of his magic book, which was awesome. When I was a kid he made the Statue of Liberty disappear. And Bill Clinton. I don't know if that was a surprise, but it was just awesome I got to meet him. His staff let me know that he liked the record, but I was able to take a photo with him so that was enough. Madonna! I’ve always been a fan of her work, so you can imagine my shock when I got a personal call from Madonna. I was like, "I think that was my bucket list, I'm good!" Then I disappeared for 20 years until now.

You remade the song with JCY in 2017, but you had turned down offers to remake it for years. Do you remember any of the pitches you had turned down?

Yeah, it was like a couple of commercials that just wasn't sexy. I can't quite remember but I think it had something to do with Pampers or something. That's my motto, it has to be sexy. If it’s not sexy, I can't do it. The one that shocked me the most was when I got the call from "Pitch Perfect 2." When they sang it in that movie, I was like, "I've made it." It’s just the gift that keeps on giving.

The world has to know: What's your second-favorite style of women's underwear?

Lace tanga. You know what that is? It’s like boy shorts. It’s gotta be almost nothing, or like, boy shorts.

"Say My Name" 20 Years Later: Why The Destiny's Child Staple Is Still On Everyone's Lips

Donny Hathaway

Donny Hathaway

Photo: Stephen Verona/Getty Images

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Donny Hathaway's "This Christmas" At 50 donny-hathaway-this-christmas-50-year-anniversary

How Donny Hathaway's "This Christmas" Became An Eternal Holiday Classic

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Donnita Hathaway, the daughter of the R&B and soul legend, tells GRAMMY.com why the iconic holiday song, which celebrated its 50-year anniversary last month, remains one of the all-time classics in that winter wonderland genre
Lior Phillips
GRAMMYs
Jan 13, 2021 - 9:07 pm

Christmas has always been a time of hope and potential, of love and joy. A time when family comes together and everything else stops so the world can focus on what really matters. And more than any other holiday, a song can evoke that feeling in a single moment. 

Nobody knows that quite as well as Donnita Hathaway, whose father, R&B and soul legend Donny Hathaway, released one of the all-time classics in that winter wonderland genre: "This Christmas," which celebrated its 50-year anniversary last month. "It's absolutely amazing to have 'This Christmas' celebrated every holiday season for the last 50 years," she tells GRAMMY.com. "It's humbling that this original song performed by my father and written by my godmother has that impact every year. And this year, in the midst of a pandemic, it's so special to feel the love from people saying that they're cueing up the song as a way to celebrate."

Born in Chicago in 1945, Donny Hathaway was initiated into the world of music at an early age. Reared by his grandmother, a gospel singer, in St. Louis, Hathaway joined the church choir at the age of 3; he later went on to study piano, eventually earning a scholarship to study music at Howard University. But after working on projects with legends including Aretha Franklin, Curtis Mayfield and The Staple Singers, Hathaway left school to carve out his own voice and pursue a career in the music industry.

Only five months after his widely adored debut album, Everything Is Everything, Hathaway released "This Christmas" as a single in December 1970. Though it has touched hearts all around the world, the track particularly feels like it taps into the core of the Midwestern Christmases of Hathaway's childhood: the warmth of gathering with loved ones around a chimney fire, the twinkle of a special someone's eye underneath the mistletoe, the streetlights reflecting off the mounds of snow out the window. "Fireside is blazing bright/We're caroling through the night/And this Christmas will be a very special Christmas for me," Hathaway smiles as the horn section roars to life.

"This Christmas" was especially important for the distinct leap forward the song took for Christmas music released by a Black artist. "Up until then African American music wasn't represented in Christmas," percussionist Ric Powell told the Chicago Sun-Times in 2009. "There was Nat King Cole and Charles Brown's 'I'll Be Home For Christmas.' During the mid-1960s, James Brown was also cutting holiday tracks like 'Santa Claus Go Straight to the Ghetto,' but they were more in the self-contained funky spirit of the Godfather of Soul than Christmas."

But "This Christmas" could extend beyond any box due to its unabashed sincerity and heart. "Donny was very upbeat during the session. He knew what he wanted to do musically and the impact he wanted to make with this song," Powell continues.

The song didn't necessarily take the world by storm on its initial release, but its appearance on the 1991 Soul Christmas compilation gave "This Christmas" the wider following it deserved. And while Hathaway's version of the song earned its place in the heart of the holidays, "This Christmas" has spread limitless cheer through countless covers. Takes on the track have spread across the decades, with everyone from Diana Ross, Aretha Franklin, The Temptations, The Four Tops and Stevie Wonder through to *NSYNC, Christina Aguilera, Usher and Mary J. Blige releasing their own versions. 

"The top artists from so many different genres have covered the song, and it's so gratifying to see his musical peers honor his work," Donnita Hathaway says of her father's iconic song. "But the magic of Donny Hathaway will always make his version essential. There's the technical ability, but then there's the soul of a person that just pierces through and makes you smile, makes you want to be with that loved one. Every time I hear the song, it's almost like I can see him and feel the joy and contentment that are the essence of the holidays."

Lalah Hathaway On Father Donny Hathaway's Legacy

Within years of releasing "This Christmas," Hathaway's career grew to ever-increasing peaks. His 1972 duet album with Roberta Flack, Roberta Flack & Donny Hathaway, reached No. 3 on the U.S. charts and featured "Where Is The Love," which would go on to earn a GRAMMY for Best Pop Vocal Performance By A Duo, Group Or Chorus at the 15th GRAMMY Awards in 1973. Hathaway's ability to swirl soul, R&B, jazz and more into an undeniable blend—all while standing strong with his trenchant social commentary—made his ascent rapid and powerful. 

That combination earned Hathaway a posthumous Lifetime Achievement Award in 2019, 40 years after his passing. "When I learned that he was earning that honor, I just jumped for joy," Donnita Hathaway says. "You can't get any higher than a Lifetime Achievement recognition from the Recording Academy. And then [in 2020], Roberta Flack was acknowledged as well, and to have both of them back to back has really been amazing and beautiful."

But even as Hathaway's profile grew in the '70s, he suffered from flares of depression and was eventually diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. After stretches of relative success and struggle with his mental health, Hathaway was found dead outside his New York hotel in 1979, from an apparent suicide having fallen from his balcony.

While "This Christmas" is a massive element within Hathaway's expansive career, so, too, is his family's advocacy for mental health in music and art. In 2015, Donnita launched the Donnie Hathaway Legacy Project, which is devoted to honoring her father's legacy and shining a light on the importance of mental health through art, nutrition, self-care and mindfulness. "I didn't want his life to be in vain," she explained. "If I can help someone, help the mental anguish that someone may go through, then I've done my job. I lost my dad at 2, and I lost my mom at 19. I realized what happens when your heart breaks and you don't heal it. I wanted this to be a worldwide initiative that focuses on holistic tools like music, because music is a healing tool."

As many struggle with mental health over the holidays every year, "This Christmas" can be even more comforting. Donnita Hathaway's plan is to spin off a mental health initiative called Friends Christmas, which urges people to look out for loved ones, friends and even strangers over the holidays to make sure everyone has a "very special Christmas." 

"So many people have lost loved ones, lost jobs, can't be with their family members," she explains. "We need to talk about how we can make Christmas special for everyone. It helps that we can always look at 'This Christmas' as an inspiration, even throughout the year, to make sure everyone is feeling special. And it always comes back to my dad's music, while also acknowledging his life and the things that troubled him as a way to prevent that from happening to our loved ones and friends."

Lalah Hathaway On Mental Health Awareness: "You Can Never Look At A Person And See What They're Going Through"

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Donnie Simpson

Donnie Simpson

Photo: Aaron Davidson/Getty Images

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Radio Legend Donnie Simpson On His Historic Career donnie-simpson-interview-radio-hall-fame

Radio And TV Legend Donnie Simpson On The Key To His Decades-Long Career: "I Don't Have To Be Great––I Just Have To Be Me"

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In honor of his recent induction into the Radio Hall Of Fame, GRAMMY.com highlights the broadcasting icon's celebrated career, his impact on media and culture, and his ongoing advocacy for Black representation in radio and TV
Eliza Berkon
GRAMMYs
Jan 6, 2021 - 3:43 pm

About five years ago, Washington, D.C., DJ Donnie Simpson emerged from retirement after a little coaxing from his wife, Pam.

"She framed it really [nicely]. She said, 'Donnie, everywhere you go, all you hear is how much people love you and they wish you'd do something else. And God has given you a gift that you should be sharing with people,'" Simpson tells GRAMMY.com over a Zoom interview. "That's what she said, but what I heard was, 'Get out.'"

The affable radio and television icon ultimately returned to the airwaves in 2015. Five years later, he received one of the highest accolades in the radio industry: Last October, he was inducted into the Radio Hall Of Fame, an honor recognizing his contributions to the radio medium over the last half-century. 

The honor is the culmination of the legend's celebrated, decades-long career in radio, which launched in the '70s when a teenaged Simpson got his start on the Detroit airwaves. At the time, he looked to a handful of local DJs as mentors, including the high-spirited Ernie Durham. 

"I did not adopt his on-air style, but I try very much to adopt his off-air style. He always carried it with class," Simpson said of Durham. "And that was the example to me: to always be kind to people, to look people in the eye, no matter who they were."

It wasn't until Simpson left Detroit, in 1977, and logged his first few years at WKYS 93.9 in D.C.––a station he would reformat and lead to No. 1 as program director––that he found his stride on air, he says. 

"It's something I always say, and it's so true: I don't have to be great––I just have to be me," Simpson says. "Being you always works because that's the spirit that connects us. That's the thing that makes you real to people; they feel you when you are you. When you're trying to be something else, they know that, too."

Simpson says he's long avoided listening to recordings of himself for fear that the inevitable analysis would disrupt the "magic" of what he'd helped create. That approach also extended to his TV career, which started—not counting a role he now laughs about on a short-lived dance show in Detroit—when he served as backup sports anchor for WRC-TV in the early '80s. Not long after, he began hosting a relatively new show on the then-burgeoning BET network. Simpson had concerns about whether the show was the right fit for him.

"BET, in its infancy, wasn't a very pretty baby. The quality wasn't there. I've always been protective of image, because that's all I have," Simpson says. "But after thinking about it for two days, I decided this: This is our first Black television network. If you have something to offer it, you have to do it."

The two-hour show, "Video Soul," which spotlighted Black artists at a time when MTV was almost exclusively focused on white musicians, became BET's highest-rated program at one point.

Jeriel Johnson, executive director of the Recording Academy's Washington, D.C., chapter, remembers watching "Video Soul" as a teen in his Cincinnati home. Simpson, he says, was a "steady presence of Black excellence."

"He was the face of BET," Johnson says. "He was just a staple, and he had such a calming voice and he was super smooth. I just looked up to him as a young, Black kid who loved music ... And I remember seeing him and being like, 'Wow, I could be on TV, too. If he can, I can.'"

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On the program, Simpson interviewed artists who were already riding the waves of success or were well on their way: Jodeci, SWV, New Edition, En Vogue, Mariah Carey, Take 6, Whitney Houston. Regardless of the star who graced the couch each night, Simpson took the same approach.

"For every guest I ever had on 'Video Soul,' they would bring me a bio with all this information on the artist … I wouldn't even read it," Simpson remembers. "That's the point of the interview, for me to get to know you."

Elise Perry, a producer and the president of the Recording Academy's Washington, D.C., chapter, worked behind the scenes on "Video Soul" in the '90s, a pivotal decade for both R&B and hip-hop, she notes.

"All of these different subgenres of R&B really started to have an uptick in the '90s, and the fact that BET was present visually at that time, representing Black music in that way—it was a very special time," Perry says. "There were a lot of Black folk there, and it was just like a party. It was where I got my 'master's degree,' I call it. Everybody was family … It was just like a mecca."

Read: Meet The Recording Academy D.C. Chapter's First Black Female President, Elise Perry

Simpson treated the crew like family and has continued to provide unparalleled support for the D.C. community over the years, Perry, a D.C. native, says.

"He's our family. He's our brother. He's our uncle. He's that dude next door. He's our neighbor. He's our friend," she says.

"Family" is also how GRAMMY-nominated producer Chucky Thompson describes Simpson, who had a big impact on him when he was growing up in D.C.

"I've learned so much about people from him, just the way that he's been excited about their careers," he says of Simpson. "It transcends to you. It's like, 'Wait a minute, Donnie's excited? Now I'm excited.'"

For Thompson, who helped craft hits for Faith Evans, Notorious B.I.G. and Mary J. Blige in the '90s, "Video Soul" was formative.

"It was almost like another version of what 'Soul Train' meant," Thompson says. "But [Simpson] got even more personal with you because he was able to talk to the artists and give you a little bit of insight on what their journeys were … He gave me a lot of information on how to make it in this business."

"Donnie Simpson is the standard," Joe Clair, comedian, radio personality, on-air veteran and host of "The Joe Clair Morning Show" on WPGC 95.5 FM in Washington, D.C., adds. "My mom and dad loved him, my siblings love him and people from a generation after me love him. That is a testament to who he is as a broadcaster and what he means to us as a voice for our community. I've worked with him throughout  the years, and he's given me valuable advice both for career moves and for negotiating my worth. He is a shining example for a life in radio and television on your own terms."

Yet becoming successful in the business, including achieving financial success, wasn't an easy journey for Simpson. The DJ has been vocal about the need for equitable pay for Black DJs. In recalling his own path to multimillion-dollar contracts, Simpson turns to a lyric from Elton John's "I've Seen That Movie Too": "It's a habit I have / I don't get pushed around."

"I've walked out [on deals], because you're not going to get me for half [the] price because I'm Black; those days are over," Simpson says, adding that in Detroit, he made one-fifth of what white DJs were making. "That was a very significant part of my career, to be able to be a part of changing that narrative, to letting them know you have to pay Black talent."

Simpson has also advocated for stations to put more of the DJ back into DJing. In the past few decades, he notes, many DJs have watched their curated playlists and airtime drift away due to technological advances and the consolidation of station ownership.

"So much of its personality has been stripped from it," Simpson says of the art of DJing. "I play whatever I want to play every day, but that's the magic of it to me … I don't want a computer programming music for me, because every day feels different. And I like to be tapped into that feeling."

In 1974, Simpson played Elton John's "Bennie And The Jets" on his show in Detroit, a decision he says he fretted about because "Black folks didn't know Elton John." He played the song twice that evening and got an overwhelming response from callers. John himself was soon on the phone with Simpson to discuss the record's success in Detroit; he handed Simpson a gold record for the single six months later.

"It's music that you wouldn't traditionally associate with Black radio; it's Elton. But that was a lesson to me," Simpson says. "It's all music to me; I don't care who made it. I just care what it sounds like [and] if it fits what I'm doing."

The fact that most DJs no longer have the latitude to craft their own playlists is a big loss for radio, Simpson says.

"You have young people out here with great ears that will never get the chance to express themselves musically because it's all programmed for them," he says. "I used to love it when wheels would touch down in Atlanta or New Orleans [or] L.A.—wherever it was. I couldn't wait to pull out my little transistor radio and hear what they were doing in that city, because it was always different."

After Simpson learned he'd be inducted into the Radio Hall Of Fame this year, he took a look at its roster of honorees over the past three decades. When he didn't see New York DJ and “Chief Rocker" Frankie Crocker and other Black radio icons on the list, the announcement gave him pause.

"These are voices that you should know about, some great talents through the years ... legends that have gone largely ignored," he says. "But I also, in my acceptance speech, acknowledged that the [Radio Hall Of Fame] is trying to correct that. You look at the list of inductees this year, with Angie Martinez, The Breakfast Club, Sway Calloway and me––man, it's like #OscarsTooBlack. It's a lot of people of color that went in this year. So they have recognized that, and I applaud them for that."

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At a time when systemic racism and police brutality against Black people have come to the forefront of the national dialogue, Simpson says he feels compelled to speak out.

"If I were not on the radio, if I didn't have a microphone, I think I would still feel that responsibility to whatever people I encounter that I could talk to, to tell them how important this moment in history is for us," Simpson says. "I am so honored that I have had a platform for, now, 51 years to allow these voices to come on the radio or on TV and talk about these matters that make a difference to our community."

In 2010, Simpson retired from WPGC, where he'd hosted a morning show for nearly two decades, after contending with a "toxic" environment. But five years later, he was back at the other end of the dial on D.C.'s WMMJ Majic 102.3. Now, another retirement seems like the furthest thing from his mind.

"What's there not to love about it? I sit there kicking it with people I love. We have all the fun we can stand," Simpson says.

As praise continues to roll in from industry A-listers for his Radio Hall Of Fame induction, Simpson has advice for the many artists and listeners who now look to him for guidance as he once looked to his own mentors: "Be kind."

Each morning, Simpson takes a walk or run beside the Potomac River. While he says there's a health benefit to the ritual, he's got an additional reason to step out of his door.

"What I'm really doing is collecting smiles," Simpson says. "That's kind of my purpose: to bring warmth and joy."

Tune in for a special Up Close & Personal conversation discussing Donnie Simpson's career and life in broadcasting. Moderated by Jimmy Jam, the event premieres Tuesday, Feb. 9, at 4:30 p.m. PST/7:30 p.m. EST via the Recording Academy's official Facebook page.

Beyond The Beltway: A Closer Look At Washington D.C.'s Vibrant Music Community

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Bruce Swedien

Bruce Swedien

Photo: John Parra/WireImage

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Remembering The Musical Genius Of Master Engineer Bruce Swedien

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GRAMMY.com looks back on the career of Swedien, a five-time GRAMMY-winning engineer who shaped iconic albums from Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones
Rob LeDonne
GRAMMYs
Dec 8, 2020 - 5:11 pm

When Bruce Swedien was mixing the Michael Jackson tour de force "Billie Jean," he and the pop star were agonizing over the most granular details of the recording. "I adored Michael, he was the greatest," Swedien once recalled. "He'd say, 'Bruce, that was perfect but let's try one more.' This was mix 80, [but] I said no problem." 

By the time Swedien and Jackson were on the 91st mix of the track, the song's producer and frequent Swedien collaborator, Quincy Jones, walked in the studio and implored the two to go back and listen to their initial cuts. "So we played [the second mix we worked on] and it blew it all away. I mean that was the most badass mix and that's what [was released]. Mix two."

It's a story that not only exemplifies Swedien's attention to detail, but also his innate natural talent that earned him legendary status among the titans of the music industry. 

"He was without question the best engineer in the business," Jones wrote in an Instagram post upon learning of Swedien's death last month (Nov. 16). "For more than 70 years I wouldn't even think about going into a recording session unless I knew Bruce was behind the board." 

This combination of respect and pedigree earned Swedien 12 career GRAMMY nominations, including five GRAMMY wins for engineering for his work on Thriller, Bad and Dangerous, all for Jackson. He also earned two additional engineering GRAMMYs for his work on Jones' albums, Q's Jook Joint and Back On The Block.

"Bruce Swedien's masterful work behind the board helped create iconic music with renowned artists," Harvey Mason jr., Chair & Interim President/CEO of the Recording Academy, said of the celerated engineer in a statement. "His imaginative approach helped shape the sound of pop music, and he was one of the most revered engineers in our industry. We have lost a remarkable talent, but I'm thankful for the music Bruce gave us."

Hailing from Minnesota, Swedien was born to classically trained musician parents; he became enamored with music after his father gave him a rudimentary disc recorder. By 21, Swedien was an engineer for RCA Victor. After honing his craft with jazz icons like Duke Ellington and Stan Kenton, he released his first musical firework from his generation-spanning discography in 1962 with "Big Girls Don't Cry," the seminal Frankie Valli And The Four Seasons hit. With its high falsetto and kinetic drumming, it rocketed to No. 1 and earned the group its first GRAMMY nomination. At the time, Swedien, then 28, was working in-house at Universal Music in Chicago. He later fondly remembered the appearance of "four scruffy-looking guys from New Jersey who headed straight to the vocal booth. It was a great session."

In addition to a zigzagging career, which saw the prolific engineer collaborating with everyone from jazz greats like Ellington and Sarah Vaughn, rock gods like Mick Jagger, divas like Barbara Streisand and contemporary stars like Jennifer Lopez, it was his creative partnership, and close friendship, with Quincy Jones that would define Swedien's career. First meeting in the late-'70s while collaborating on the music for the classic film, The Wiz, the two also crafted hits for the likes of George Benson, including his own GRAMMY-winning song, "Give Me The Night," as well as the gargantuan charity single, "We Are The World." 

But it was the dream team of Swedien, Jones, Michael Jackson and songwriter Rod Temperton that helped change the face of pop and turn the former Jackson 5 member into a bonafide superstar. 

For The Record: Michael Jackson

"[Along with Temperton], we reached heights that we could have never imagined & made history together," Jones, on Instagram, recalled of the partnership, which resulted in Thriller, the best-selling album in music history. "I have always said it's no accident that more than four decades later no matter where I go in the world, in every club, like clockwork at the witching hour you hear 'Billie Jean,' 'Beat It,' 'Wanna Be Starting Something,' and 'Thriller.' That was the sonic genius of Bruce Swedien and to this day I can hear artists trying to replicate him."

In tangent with his ace ear, Swedien was also deft in the technology of production, helping revolutionize new techniques of engineering and evolving the craft. While working on Thriller, he developed a technique to record the tracks in analogue first in pairs, subsequently creating stereophonic recordings. "Digital recording was available and we were all quite impressed with its clarity," he said in 2018. "But if you start the music in digital you can never go back to analogue and it won't sound as good."

His thirst for innovation also forced him to think outside the box, like building a special drum platform and a cover for the bass drum, complete with an integral piece of wood to give the percussion on "Billie Jean" a distinctive sound. When recording Jackson's vocals, he had the pop star stand a few inches from the microphone, then step back even farther for another cut, then another, with Jackson physically moving his mouth along the microphone; once layered, they all created a unique depth. "Here's what I think it really boils down to," Swedien once explained, offering valuable insight into a master at work. "The importance of any musical sound lies not in any inherent acoustical value, but what it signifies in the soul of the listener." 

His friend Quincy Jones summed up Swedien's loss on both a personal and creative level. "I am absolutely devastated to learn the news that we lost my dear brother-in-arms," he wrote in the Instagram post. "I'm going to miss your presence every single day 'Svensk', but I will cherish every moment we shared together laughin', lovin', livin', & givin'."

Michael Jackson's "Thriller": For The Record

Erykah Badu in 2000

Erykah Badu in 2000

Photo: Anthony Barboza/Getty Images

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20 Years Of Erykah Badu's 'Mama's Gun' erykah-badu-mamas-gun-20-year-anniversary

Didn't Cha Know?: 20 Years of Erykah Badu's 'Mama's Gun'

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Released in November 2000, the Queen of Neo-Soul's GRAMMY-nominated sophomore album was a huge step forward for her as a creator and as a leading voice within the genre
Jordan Blum
GRAMMYs
Nov 21, 2020 - 2:51 pm

Erykah Badu was a force to be reckoned with throughout the late '90s and early 2000s. Her 1997 debut album, Baduizm, which was directly influenced by Brandy's self-titled first record, was immensely confident, enjoyable and successful. Its fusion of vintage and modernized styles—R&B, soul, jazz, hip-hop and traditional African music—earned Badu comparisons to Billie Holiday, Mary J. Blige, Lauryn Hill, Chaka Khan, Maxwell and Stevie Wonder. Paired with the equally efficacious Live later that year, Baduizm instantly earned the Texas singer-songwriter recognition as one of the leading forces in neo-soul.

Clearly, hopes were high for her next move; even so, her follow-up in 2000, Mama's Gun, was decidedly sleeker, edgier and more diverse, allowing Badu to fully come into her own and play a larger role in the mainstream impact of the subgenre. On Mama's Gun, she found her tangibly idiosyncratic path. Today, the album's blueprint can be heard in the sound of countless protégés: Childish Gambino, Amy Winehouse, John Legend, Janelle Monáe and Raheem DeVaughn, to name a few. That she'd eventually lean on increasingly raw, minimalist and experimental avenues on her later albums, Worldwide Underground and the two-part New Amerykah series, makes Mama's Gun that much more special.

Badu began recording Mama's Gun, her first album on Motown Records, in 1998—at Jimi Hendrix's famed Electric Lady Studios—shortly after giving birth to her first child, Seven, who she had with OutKast's André "3000" Benjamin. Along the way, she also worked with The Roots' drummer/co-frontman, Questlove, and joined his collective, The Soulquarians, a rotating group of collaborative Black musicians that also featured James Poyser, Pino Palladino, Mos Def, Q-Tip, Common and many other eminent artists. Naturally, some of them helped create Mama's Gun—as producers, players or both—alongside over a dozen other instrumentalists. It's no wonder, then, why the album features such a luscious, retro and inventive blend of funk, jazz and soul tapestries.

Lyrically, Mama's Gun is rightly considered more accessible and overtly autobiographical than Baduizm; its strong sense of poise explores personal hardships, such as her breakup with Benjamin, self-doubt and social issues, like the killing of Amadou Diallo ("A.D. 2000"). All the while, the record's mixture of condemnation and celebration keeps it resonant and fun. Much like how early Tori Amos and Ben Folds albums could be seen as approaching similar sentiments and styles from oppositely gendered perspectives, Mama's Gun has been viewed as the female counterpart to frequent collaborator D'Angelo's Voodoo, which released almost a year prior. Granted, such comparisons are almost always a bit reductive and devaluing, but there's certainly enough shared DNA between them.

Read: I Met Her in Philly: D'Angelo's 'Brown Sugar' Turns 25

Mama's Gun produced many accolades. Lead single "Bag Lady" became her first charting track on the Billboard Hot 100. The track was also nominated for Best Female R&B Vocal Performance and Best R&B Song at the 2001 GRAMMYS; "Didn't Cha Know?," the album's follow-up single, was also nominated for the latter award one year later. Mama's Gun itself peaked at No. 11 on the Billboard 200 and was certified platinum by the RIAA.

Likewise, press reviews of the album were overwhelmingly favorable—if more mixed than those for Baduizm—with The Guardian, Pitchfork, Rolling Stone and The Village Voice being among the most complimentary. Unsurprisingly, it appeared on several major "Best Of" year-end lists, too. While there were also some naysayers, such as Q and Entertainment Weekly, no publication was outright dismissive of Mama's Gun. Naturally, this led to her feeling somewhat disappointed by its reception. Still, she felt equally encouraged by how fans reacted at concerts, latter surmising that "the work is not always for commercial success. It's also for spiritual upliftment."

Read: The Verzuz Effect: How Swizz Beatz & Timbaland's Beat Battles Showcase Music's Past, Present And Future

Two decades on, Mama's Gun remains a beacon of confessional observations and smoothly flowing stylistic changes. Opener "Penitentiary Philosophy" is an exhilarating group effort that begins cleverly with interlocking voices projecting creative and personal anxieties; from there, it explodes into a wonderfully nuanced and conceived psych/funk/soul festival beneath which Badu pushes toward unity in society and the agency of the individual. Such energies follow her onto the quirkier and more playful one-two punch of "Booty" and "Kiss Me On My Neck," as well as the multipart, multifaceted and highly ambitious closer, "Green Eyes," a breakup suite, inspired by Benjamin, whose use of horns, noirish piano, soothing percussion and sundry accentuations make it enormously poignant and seductive.

Elsewhere, the record is softer and calmer, such as with the hip and catchy "Didn't Cha Know?" and the cool-as-ice R&B composure of "My Life." Interestingly, "... & On" is the successor to Baduizm's "On & On" in form and function, with a synthesis of hip-hop, spoken word and jazz elements yielding a carefree gem of self-empowerment that evokes Stevie Wonder in its flamboyant breakdowns. His influence also shines in alternative ways on the tranquil yet sobering acoustic ballad "A.D. 2000," an evocative commentary on the ease with which Black lives are taken and then forgotten in American society. In contrast, Badu's duet with Stephen Marley, "In Love With You," is minimalist, but still uplifting.

Aside from periodic collaborations and other one-off projects, Badu has been relatively removed from the industry over the last few years. Whatever the reasons, her absence weighs heavily considering how much she accomplished beforehand. In particular, Mama's Gun was a huge step forward for her not only as a creator, but also as a leading voice within the genre. No matter which album is your favorite—they're all justifiable candidates that do things differently—it's impossible to deny what Mama's Gun did for Erykah Badu and neo-soul overall. 

Twenty years since its release, Mama's Gun is just as captivating and significant today.

These Dreams Are Forever: 10 Years Of Janelle Monáe's 'The ArchAndroid'

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Some of the content on this site expresses viewpoints and opinions that are not those of the Recording Academy. Responsibility for the accuracy of information provided in stories not written by or specifically prepared for the Academy lies with the story's original source or writer. Content on this site does not reflect an endorsement or recommendation of any artist or music by the Recording Academy.