Will Yip

Photo: Will Yip Instagram

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Philly Producer/Engineer Will Yip Works Harder Than You

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Go inside Yip's journey making records, from his mom's basement all the way to Studio 4: “I’m very in the process, and I think that’s why artists trust me"
Brendan Menapace
GRAMMYs
May 24, 2019 - 12:29 pm

Will Yip just might be the hardest working man in the music business. You won’t see him on tour. You won’t see his name on a marquee. You might not ever see him at all, unless you venture into the subterranean Studio 4 in Conshohocken, Pa., just a few minutes outside of Philadelphia. That’s where he is for about 13 hours a day. The other hours he’s probably mixing at home - something he does to force himself to leave the studio at some point at least.

You’ve probably heard his work, though. If you’ve listened to any record even tangentially related to punk, hardcore, emo, indie rock and beyond within the last 10 years, you’ve more that likely listened to one of his albums. The likes of Circa Survive, The Menzingers, Turnstile and Title Fight have been going to Will for his studio knowledge, his unique way of bringing out the best of artists, his creative vision and his insane work ethic.

Yip is a co-owner of Studio 4, the studio he dreamed of working at as a teenager, and one of the most sought-after producers in rock music. Professionally speaking, he’s come a long way from the kid recording in his mom’s basement, the one who finessed his way into internships, and the one who cleaned out a back room to record bands on his own time. His first exposure to the recording world began by playing drums in a band when he was 12.

“I just love being in the studio,” Yip says. “I love building. I love the behind-the-scenes of putting together music and f***ing with stuff, and just messing with ideas and seeing it from the first note recorded to the final mix. That’s why I don’t tour. I just want to create all day.”

He started recording his friends’ bands in his mom’s basement in Northeast Philly. In high school, he helped out at a nearby studio, making a few bucks an hour, watching and learning as much as possible. When college rolled around, he faced a choice: Go to the Ivy League school and pursue the “comfortable” life his parents wanted for him, or go to the state school and study engineering, a much more uncertain path.

He decided on the latter, going to Temple University to study under Phil Nicolo, co-owner of Studio 4 and Yip’s eventual business partner, himself an adjunct professor at Temple. Yip’s parents, hard-working immigrants from China, were concerned as any parent would be, they always supported him and his passion. After all, he had it all mapped out.

“I said, ‘I’m going to get in with Phil,’” Yip says. He speaks fast and excitedly. “’I’m going to meet Phil, and somehow I’m going to work at Studio 4.’ That was my dream job.”

Yip had first heard of Studio 4 as the place responsible for some of his favorite albums from artists like Boys II Men, The Fugees and Lauryn Hill. Nicolo, a GRAMMY winner, had also worked with royalty like John Lennon and Bob Dylan over his decades-spanning career.

So, he knew he wanted to end up at Studio 4, but he also knew he had to get a little more experience under his belt before he took that shot. So he hit up a now-defunct studio in South Philly called Indre Recording.

“I remember just like it was yesterday - I was 18,” he said. “I emailed the studio manager, her name was Jennifer… and I said, ‘I’d love to intern. I’m this, this and this. I have skills in recording. I’ve done it for the last six years of my life.’ And she was just like, ‘No, we’re full.’ And that was it. It was harsh. It was real. It was the first time someone said no to me like that. Because I always thought I presented well, in terms of, like, what I could do. Free work ­­– who doesn’t want that?”

Yip is exceptionally friendly and nice, but he’s not the type to take a loss when he knows he can get the win. So, he took something he had previously recorded in the basement, along with $600 – just about every penny he had at the time – and bet on himself hard.

“So I brought $600 with me, and I said, ‘I want to book mastering time,’” Yip said. “For songs that were already mastered! I just wanted to get through the door, to talk to someone!”

He played the songs for an engineer there, and he was immediately impressed.

“He was working on them, and he goes, ‘Dude, this sounds really good, where was this recorded?’ Oh, my mom’s basement,” Yip says. “He’s like, ‘What? This sounds better than some of the stuff recorded in our big room.’”

That gig lead to recording sessions and live shows. As he continued to learn by doing, he found his opportunity to get in front of Nicolo as he originally planned when he picked Temple, this time with a little more experience under his belt.

“I took Phil’s class, and the first class, I went to him and said, ‘I want to work for you. I’ll work for free,’ Yip says. “He gets that a lot. He had a line of kids. But again, I knew I was going to kill it. And he was like, ‘Alright, just show up.’ He has an open-door policy, so I showed up. And I don’t think I’ve ever stopped showing up since.”

“Once out of 3 or 400 students, you have someone who’s got it,” Nicolo says. “I don’t want to have a huge ego, but he reminded me of me at Temple. Will was that guy. I could tell he was just really on top of the ball.”

Nicolo was working with Lauryn Hill at the time. Hill is an artist both he and Yip say has a tendency to “push” her colleagues. That “it” that Yip had was something Nicolo recognized as the mark of a truly talented producer who goes beyond just turning knobs, and it became prevalent while working with Hill.

“He became my right-hand man with Lauryn Hill,” Nicolo says. “Talk about going through the trenches. If you can keep up with that s***, man, you’re in… It’s the psychological side. Anyone can figure out where to put a hi-hat or mic an amp. But it’s hard to get an artist to appreciate what you do and get what they want when they’re not putting it in correct terms. That’s an engineer. And Will did that.”

It’s that unique ability to almost connect with his artists on a symbiotic level that makes him such a good engineer. He becomes a member of the band and a teammate.

“My goal is to read their minds, to get inside their minds and then work with them to create – not even just follow direction – but just create what that vision is, you know?” -Will Yip

“He gets the best out of you,” says Tom May, guitarist/vocalist of the Menzingers, who first worked with Yip for the band’s 2017 LP After the Party, and is working with him again for their next album due out this year. “The kind of stuff that you didn’t know was really going to be there in the first place. And he’s just so good at making an environment that’s conducive to creating with all egos to the side. It’s a wild thing.”

 

The way Yip puts it, he doesn’t want to create a “Will Yip record” or even a “Studio 4 record.” He wants to make the best record that band can make in that environment.

“I’m very in the process, and I think that’s why artists kind of trust me,” Yip says. “I always tell guys that I’ve recorded with a lot of producers before. I’ve recorded with so many engineers, and I’ve tried not to be everything that I hated in those experiences. I want someone that I can trust. And I know when you trust someone that’s manning this side of the board for you, and you trust someone saying, ‘Nah, man, that’s good,’ that’s the coolest thing. That’s the safest thing. It’s like trusting your partner.”

In a lot of ways, Yip is still the kid in his mom’s basement recording his friends. His highest aspirations are to work with people who inspire him, who are fun to be around and who make music he gets genuinely stoked on. As he puts it, he doesn’t want to “chase” anything, like a paycheck or prestige. Instead, he wants to create an environment of positivity, mutual respect and creativity. That’s why artists flock from all over the globe to work with him.

“You don’t meet that many people who are like Will,” May says. “I’ve never really worked with that many people like him. He’s just so excited and ready to go. He’s able to focus better than anyone that I’ve ever worked with on anything in my life, including any schooling, jobs, the music business, working on records, everything. I’ve never seen someone who’s able to maintain that type of attention span and attention to detail, as well as managing a roomful of personalities at the same time. It’s really kind of incredible.”

“He works constantly at the highest level, and that’s what it takes,” Nicolo says. “Of people who get into this industry, why are only 2 percent of us successful?  Because you have to have that mentality and that work ethic and the ability. It’s not all pushing the pencil. You gotta have the ability. He does, and he puts in the time.”

Today, Yip’s reputation is far greater than just a producer. He’s started two record labels so he can support artists he believes in, but who might be working with limited resources. On Wikipedia, he’s “veteran producer Will Yip.” On Pitchfork, he’s “influential producer Will Yip.” These are titles typically given to folks far older than Yip, a youthful 32.

But he is a veteran. It just didn’t take him long to get there. While some of his peers have been in the business for longer than he’s been alive, his breakneck pace has allowed him to create more albums than some people will make in a lifetime, some of them GRAMMY-nominated.

And he is influential, more than he thought he would be, and in ways beyond the walls of his studio or the words of music blogs.

“I was in L.A., and I was out there for a Tigers Jaw show,” he says. “I was just by the merch table talking to couple guys, and a couple guys came by to meet me, which is crazy. L.A. - the other side of the country. This Asian dude comes up to me and says, ‘Hey dude, I’m, like, shaking right now. I can’t believe you’re here.’ I wish I would’ve taken down his information or socials so I could hit him up. But he was like, ‘Dude, you’re the reason why I think I can be an engineer. No other engineers look like me or look like you. And for you to do all of my favorite bands, I think I can do it.’ I’m like … that f***ed me up.”

Yip’s only plan was to make music with his friends forever. Being a representative for kids who look like him wasn’t a torch he planned on carrying, and it took him a while to accept it, but now he’s embraced it. It’s not that he’s playing some Mr. Modest, it’s that he’s spent so much time in his studio world that he maybe didn’t notice how much the rest of he music world grew to respect him.

“I hate talking about myself. I hate it. It’s not what I do,” he says. “All this stuff and meeting this kid, I’m like, holy s*** man. There’s so many talented kids. What if I got too scared if I got bummed out or took whatever job offer, or went to Penn, which I could’ve went to instead of Temple, and just made money, worked in my brother’s firm—and he’s very successful and cool, but what if I did that instead? I was that close to that thought sometimes when things weren’t going the best, even though I knew I wanted to work in music. If letting that fear of not doing something because you don’t see other people that look like you doing it, that’s f***ing crushing, man.”

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(L-R) Laurin Talese, Ebonie Smith, Donn T, Paris Cole
Photo: Lisa Lake/Getty Images

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Music Makers & Execs Discuss Collaboration, Culture & The "Power In Femininity"

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The Recording Academy Philadelphia Chapter brings together group of women of color for a frank discussion of co-writing, confidence, safety and culture in the music industry
Michael Butler
GRAMMYs
Mar 26, 2019 - 10:56 am

While the core components of what makes a great song may not have changed over the decades, the way music makers create certainly has. With technology allowing albums to be made on laptops, on smart phones, on tour busses and in bedrooms, songwriters and producers have become secluded in their creative process. While this trend unleashed remarkable self-contained creativity in some, it has left a void of in-person collaboration; however, that is finally changing.

Songwriting camps are popping up all over the industry as labels are revisiting the forgotten power of placing their most talented artists in a room together to create. Earlier this year, GRAMMY-nominated rapper J. Cole's Dreamville Records held a 10-day recording session featuring some of the most talented artists in hip-hop, and Def Jam hosted its firepower-packed rap camp, which Rolling Stone says, "May be a new—and cheaper—model for the record business."

The rising tide of writer retreats presents boundless new opportunity for artists, labels, content creators, producers, engineers, and more. The Recording Academy's Philadelphia Chapter recently explored the issue deeper at their exclusive event "Craft Session: Creative Collaboration."

From a member of one of Philly’s premier musical families to the co-manager of one of R&B’s rising stars, three women of color in the music business shared several gems that can help guide women and men looking to navigate enduring careers in the music business. To celebrate the recent International Women’s Day, Paris Cole, Ebonie Smith and Donn T shared some words of wisdom that they’ve learned in their musical journeys.

Moderated by recent Sarah Vaughn International Vocal Competition winner Laurin Talese, the conversation illustrated the value of collaboration in sustaining a healthy, innovative and thriving music industry. Here are a few crucial takeaways from the conversation in Philadelphia.

Collaboration Is Key

Paris Cole is a co-manager of Dreamville / Interscope songstress Ari Lennox and has learned the importance of being positive, cooperative and open-minded. "I’m always in a position where I have to collaborate," Cole says. "I always try to push through and kill with kindness, especially as a young person in my position. Ageism is definitely a real thing, so there are people that dismiss me when I’m speaking up for something. The collaboration part in the music industry is the most important piece."

"There’s So Much Power In Femininity."

Cole was one of a handful of women at J. Cole’s recent aforementioned Dreamville Recording Sessions. The nearly two-week sessions at Atlanta’s Tree Sound Studios exemplified the movement toward record labels bringing musicians together in one place to collaborate. "I was there for only three or four days," Cole said. "Ari [Lennox] is the only female signed to Dreamville. It was really just her, myself and Raeana Anaïs, J. Cole’s stylist. It was really inspiring because it was a lot of Black men doing some really cool things."

For Cole, the uniqueness of being able to share her energy as a woman was refreshing. "There were about 11 rooms going on and every room was filled with some of the most talented producers, rappers, songwriters," Cole said. "It was cool because they were appreciative of us just walking around the rooms and bringing our own energy. There’s so much power in femininity and they are really receptive to that over at Dreamville. The camp was amazing, but it was cool to be one of the few people there to witness that dynamic between all of those creatives."

Believe In Yourself

Ebonie Smith is a producer and engineer for Atlantic Records and has worked with artists like Kelly Clarkson and Janelle Monaé. Individuality and being herself as a woman is as important to Smith as any of the many technical skills she uses regularly in the studio.

"I think my specialized skill set is informed by who I am," Smith said. "I’ve developed a number of skills that allow me to engineer, produce, play the instruments, program, etc. But it’s not just me being able to do those things because there are lots of people who can do those things. It’s me that I should be bringing and my unique perspective on all of those unique tasks I can do should be formulated into one offering. That is my individuality, my unique perspective, my compassion and more so than anything, operating with grace."

A lover of music history, Smith looks at the foundations of the record business to help inspire her workflow. "For me, it’s thinking about the overarching concept of what it means to be in the record business and creating records," Smith said. "A friend said to me recently, ‘You use such antiquated language. Nobody [says] records anymore.’ I said that I like that language because a record is just that: A documentation of a special moment. Doesn’t matter if it’s a vinyl or tape or mp3, we’re creating a record in time, a moment, a timestamp. It’s that energy that I’m operating with. When I think about the greatest movements in record history, one of them started here [with] Philadelphia International. Gamble and Huff, that’s how they operate. That’s what created the Philadelphia sound. That’s what we want."

 

Singer, songwriter and label owner Donn T mission is clear: "To see women and young girls fully become who they are beyond age, beyond race. There are no limitations."

Having worked in the music business since the age of nine, Donn T is a proponent for walking confidently in who you are. "I’m a visionary, I’m inventive, I’m a unicorn," she said. "Centering yourself and knowing yourself in every moment and being unapologetic [is important]. I think what grew up in me was this advocate for justice and seeing that in the lives of women and young girls. If we can honor a Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones in his 70s and 80s, we need to have those equivalents in women. We need to not just applaud children and teens coming into the industry, we need to be applauding women in their 50s and 60s who are creatives because creativity doesn’t die. It is my mission to change the face of what that looks like and encourage others."

Safety First

As someone that spends a great deal of her time in the studio, Smith is aware of the perils that come with studio culture and warns against them. "Studio culture can still be a very tricky space for young women in particular," Smith said. "Spaces typically aren’t safe or conducive for young girls to be hanging out in isolated rooms or basements with men twice their age. Studio culture can be very dangerous for girls. If you’re working with women in the studio or working late, make sure we get into our cars, help us clean up. Don’t just leave. Ask, ‘Are you okay? How are you getting home?’

Smith also wants people to be aware that your personal space and security are more important than any perceived advantage in the industry. "For women, if it’s a question of your body, always say no," Smith said. "If it’s a question of your safety, always say no. I don’t care how early it is in your career. Very early in my career, I was working in the studio, some guys came in that had guns and I wanted to work in that studio. They were paying me. But after that session they could never pay me enough. It doesn’t matter if I’m a great engineer if I’m dead. Same is true with other physical things. The answer is 'no.' That’s not how you become a better engineer or artist. It has nothing to do with your craft. If that’s a part of your job then it’s 'no.'"

Men: Be An Ally

Donn T is a firm believer that while it is important for women to protect themselves in the music business, men can stand up as allies in solidarity. "We need the men that are like-minded to be allies," Donn T said. "We all know that there is one conversation that happens in a room when men and women are together and another that happens when men are in a room together. Be consistent because you are that change. It’s the people in the secret rooms that will make a difference. For the men, it’s important to take the interest you have in being [at this event] to go into these rooms and be brave. It’s something as women and men that we’re learning how to do. We have to take a risk and feel the fear."

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Ramblin' Jack Elliott at The Freight & Salvage

Ramblin' Jack Elliott at The Freight

Photo: Hail McGrath

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Historic Berkeley Folk Venue Freight & Salvage Welcomes A New Generation Of Music Fans

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"There's kind of a special feeling when you walk in. It's like you are walking into someone's extra-large living room with a bunch of your close friends," Sharon Dolan, the historic venue's Executive Director recently explained
Lily O'Brien
GRAMMYs
Oct 4, 2019 - 9:20 am

When The Freight & Salvage Coffeehouse opened its (original) doors in 1968 in Berkeley, Calif., the intention was to create a cafe and gathering place for the community. Housed in a former used furniture store (thus, the name of the venue), it began to attract local musicians—acoustic guitar strummers, banjo pickers, fiddle players and more. It soon became the nexus for the burgeoning traditional folk and old-time music scene that was rooted in the anti-establishment, counter-culture, radical and experimental ethos of the iconic '60s and '70s eras.

Now, 51 years later, this legendary establishment is still going strong. The Recording Academy spoke to several of the people who help run the venue to learn how it's still shining bright.

In 1983, the popular club became a nonprofit, "the Berkeley Society for the Preservation of Traditional Music," to be exact. Five years later, the Freight moved to a slightly larger venue nearby, in 1988, eventually moving to its current home at 2020 Addison St. in 2009. The newer space offers an inviting, architect-designed 400-plus seat performance hall with a state-of-the-art sound system from Berkley's Meyer Sound. Yet even as they've grown, their space—and those who perform there—retains the rustic and intimate atmosphere.

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Just down the block from other popular cultural institutions—Berkeley Repertory Theatre, Aurora Theater Company and the California Jazz Conservatory—it is firmly planted in the heart of the Downtown Berkeley Arts District. A large, eclectic group of local and international artists, like Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Teresa Trull and David Grisman, have graced its stage, in genres ranging from traditional folk, blues, jazz, bluegrass, world and classical music.

GRAMMY-nominated Windham Hill Records artist Barbara Higbie has served on the Freight's Board of Directors for 14 years, and is currently its Co-Chair. A pianist, composer and fiddler, she began performing there 42 years ago, alongside fiddler Daryl Anger and guitar and mandolin player Mike Marshall.

"The City of Berkeley really wooed the Freight to come down there [to the current area], because they wanted to create an arts district, and at the time, the club was bursting at the seams," Higbie explained. "The Freight has so much goodwill. In the East Bay there are a few big communities that have supported it in a big way—the bluegrass community, the women's community, the blues community, the people who really love singer/songwriters and the alt-country community." 

Deeply passionate about preserving the integrity of the club, she initially had some concerns about the new venue, based on what she had seen happen to other spaces in the Bay Area. Now, 10 years later, she believes they are on the right track.

"I had experienced so many clubs getting bigger and either going out of business or changing beyond recognition," she explained. "I am so loyal to the Freight and I want it to survive, so it was a really a big concern to me that we didn't become just a commercial venue." 

Three years ago, Peter Williams was hired as the new Program Director at the Freight and has been giving their programming a fresh, worldly spin. With a resume that includes prominent positions at the Green Music Center in Sonoma, the Napa Valley Opera House, and Yoshi's in Oakland, his eclectic musical background made him the perfect choice.

"When the position became open I was really excited about it, because they wanted to diversify the programming and the audience a bit, so it sounded like a great opportunity for me to get creative and put all my musical tastes to work," Williams said over the phone. 

He explained the Freight's focus for many years had mostly been Americana and bluegrass music before he came on board. He began mixing it up by booking a healthy mix of Latin and world music artists, including bands from Haiti, Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

"Since Peter came, it's been phenomenal—he's such an expert at booking," Higbie revealed. "He is balancing it out amazingly between big draws, keeping all the constituents happy, bringing in new communities and trying to expand. He is a really visionary booking person and I think it has made a huge difference."

Not long before Williams, current Executive Director Sharon Dolan came onboard in 2015, after many years as a patron and volunteer. She is committed to preserving the Freight's original ideology of diversity.

"When I first got there, I saw the potential to fully live out our mission of preserving and promoting traditional music from a variety of cultures around the world," she said. "Historically we had focused on music from the folk revival from when we were founded in 1968—bluegrass, old-time and Celtic music. We still continue to do all that, but we also saw an opportunity to broaden our thinking and reach more people, partly by community outreach and partly by what we were putting on stage."

Dolan feels that the newer venue has maintained the comfortable, welcoming atmosphere it has always been known for. "There's kind of a special feeling when you walk in. It's like you are walking into someone's extra-large living room with a bunch of your close friends—a shared experience that we have. It's different from being in a large stadium show where the audience is so far away. You are right there, and there's much more of a connection between the performers and the audience, and that's a really key part of what happens here."

Along with the innovative and eclectic programming, the Freight also offers music classes for adults and kids, open mic nights and education and community outreach programs, to further its mission. 

"Our new education programming is part of our longer-term planning. We are continuing to work with adults, but the new part is the collaboration with middle schools in Berkeley, and we are definitely reaching a more diverse population," Dolan added. "The program is about mashing up traditional music with something more contemporary that the kids can relate to. For example, we have a program mixing traditional Indian vocal percussion with rap that the kids are really enjoying. We have only just started it and it's really cool."

They are also set to work on a new project with their local Recording Academy chapter in early 2020. PC Muñoz, who was recently hired as the Freight's Director of Education and Community Engagement has been an active member of the Recording Academy San Francisco Chapter.  He explained by email they are working on the details of a collaboration with Academy members who are educators, for a professional development event for the Freight's teachers.

With an exciting and ever-expanding roster of performers, classes, events and numerous other collaborations, the Freight seems to have found a sweet spot in the arts community that has helped it to retain its vitality and relevance in the Bay Area.

"I think music and the arts right now are critical," Dolan emphasized. "Music is one of the ways we build empathy for each other and for each other's cultures—we learn about each other that way. It's a way to share with a room full of other people, your despair or your hope about what's happening in the world."

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SiR 2019

SiR

Photo: Christian San Jose

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SiR Is 'Chasing Summer' And, With A Little Help From Kendrick Lamar & Others, Making His Dreams Reality

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"It feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least," the Inglewood singer/producer says of his vibey new album 
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 24, 2019 - 3:08 pm

You may have already jammed out to SiR's big 2019 summer mood single, "Hair Down," featuring the one and only Kendrick Lamar. If so, you already have a good starting place for understanding who the smooth R&B singer/producer, born Sir Darryl Farris, from Inglewood is. The vibey track is driven by SiR's warm, rich vocals over a slow-bubbling trap beat, elevated even further into the golden summer sunset by Lamar's verse. It's confident but laid-back—two words which also describe the artist himself well—a true slow-burn of a fire track.

"Hair Down" is the first track and the lead single to SiR's third album, Chasing Summer, which he dropped during Labor Day Weekend, on Aug. 30. It is his second LP released since he was signed to heavy-hitting Los Angeles label Top Dawg Entertainment. As he explains, it sets the tone for the rest of the album and also marks a major point of growth in his musical career and self-confidence.

"This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important. So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that," he recently told the Recording Academy over the phone.

You recently dropped Chasing Summer, which is just such a perfect mood as summer comes to an end. What has the experience of this release felt like for you?

Man, it's one of a kind. Being the type musician I am, I'm very involved with each release, and this one feels different than the last two. Everybody around me was locked in, not just me. All the musicians and all of my team, my management had the common goals set almost a year ago, and just were building on this idea. So, it feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least.

That's amazing, and I'm sure that's a really just great feeling to sort of be marinating in right now.

Yeah. It's awesome. It's definitely new territory for me. I'm just trying to keep up with myself now, which is fun.

 "It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure."

I love that. Can you speak to what your main vision for this album was?

The vision for the album is, it was all based off of my life on the road and all my experiences that I had accumulated over the last three or four years. With seeing my peers and just dealing with personal relationships, business relationships and trying to balance home and the road, and just my evolution as a human. I kind of put a lot of it into wax. It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure.

I feel like it really does. I wanted to talk about the producers on the album. You worked with a handful of different people including Kal Banx and Sounwave from TDE as well as Boi-1da and a few others. How do you feel that working with these different creative minds helped challenge you and shape the trajectory of the album?

I'm going to answer this question, but I have a very specific thing about me that I really like. I work with people that want to work with me, so I don't chase beats; there's no rhyme or scheme. I didn't select certain people. I just put my head down and kept writing songs until we felt like we had a body of work. And then, what I do with most of my production is I'll get players to come in and add actual instrumentation to a good beat so that it has more life to it. I'm hands-on with all my mixes and masters. With all of the production, I was blessed to have really talented musicians around to help just elevate the sound, and I think that helps so much, man.

Working with cats like Boi-1da was an honor, of course, but I wouldn't hold him in higher regard than I would a Kal Banx, who damn near had six records on the album that he helped me produce and work on. So, I feel like everybody added their own sauce to it and it ended up being way bigger than I expected. But as far as like who produced what, I think that's not as important as the overall body of work, and we all knew that. With Kal, he wasn't worried when I told him I got a new base plate on the recipe. He didn't ask any questions, he just knew it was going to be saucy. You know what I mean?

I think, like I said, we all had a common goal. Once I laid out the plan and the vision for everybody, they were on board. So, we went into the every session with a specific goal in mind and we executed properly and I think it's going to pay off for all of us in the long run. I'm so excited for Kal. I'm excited to share this moment with him and see the response to his hard work, and it's all a blessing, really and truly.

It really seems like it was everything you would hope for in the studio, that everything is moving forward and flowing together, even with all the different people.

Yeah. I learned a lot from November and just how I kind of let a lot of people in the process in certain points where I didn't really necessarily mean to. This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important.

So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that, and I think that helped give people an idea of what they should be doing when they come around. If you're a producer, I might not need you to make a whole beat, but I might need you to make these drums, or I might need you to play keys. Just be prepared to translate what I need, I'm not coming to you to get what you need. I produce myself, so I think this time around I was able to really fine-tune things the way I like, and it shows, man. This is my baby for sure. I feel like this is a very special project.

The album opens with "Hair Down," featuring Kendrick Lamar, which you also released as the lead single. Can you give a little bit of the backstory on that song and video and what it was like working with him?

That was probably the first song I wrote for the album that we were probably going use as a single. We usually don't try to shoot for singles, you know what I mean? When we're building a project, we'll make sure that the songs can all stand on their own two legs. As soon as I did that one, it just felt like what I wanted the album to look like, and to me it was the perfect starting point. It was the perfect launch point for what we were trying to accomplish, and I didn't get the [Lamar] verse until two months ago or something like that. I wrote that song probably a year ago while we were on the road at [TDE's 2018] Championship Tour.

That's not something you ask for. It was something that we talked about, but that's not something that you ask for. It's like the Jill Scott thing, I didn't really ask for that. You got to let them make that decision. I think with working with artists like Kendrick, Jill Scott and Lil Wayne, it's a blessing and I think I do everything I can to just make myself someone that people want to work with. I think I do a good job of standing on my own two feet, and that's something that I had to embrace over the last two years.

Just working with your idols is always awkward. It's weird. I met [Childish] Gambino at the BET awards. I wish I could take that back because it was so awkward, you know what I mean? And I still go through the everyday life stuff of I'm human and if I see somebody that I'm not used to seeing, it's going to be weird. This year, I had to really step outside of that and become SiR, and really accept that. I think it shined through when I sat and talked to people about the project, they were more open to it because I was more confident in myself, and that really helped a lot, just giving me that confidence. [Lamar's] conversations are more important to me than that verse ever will be. I'm appreciative of the verse for sure, but I can really say that's my mentor. This dude really takes care of his team and really cares about us, man. So, it's definitely a blessing to have him on deck.

And what would you say the biggest thing you learned from the collaborators on this project?

Spread love. Because I feel like most of them, they didn't have to do what they did. Miss Jill, she's getting so much love on her acting career, as she should be. She really doesn't need to feature on anything. All of these artists, they got their own things. People are looking for them and checking for them.

When I get on, if I'm ever in a position to bless somebody, and I feel like they are working hard and they've got their thing together, I definitely would want to be what they are to me. I'd want to be a blessing and give back to the community. They see that I'm a part of the same community, I have the same common goal with music. It's not me trying to get on or be a flashy type. It's not that. I really care about the music. So, I think they saw that and they wanted to reciprocate the same kind of love I'm trying to get off it.

That's all it's really about, is spreading love and giving back to what you want to see thrive and flourish. And I think they really see something in what we got going, and I was just lucky. I really feel like it's the right place at the right time, but I don't want to make it that simple. But I feel like they really are just spreading love, man, and they blessed me. I'm still in shock. I can't really process it. It's all new territory for me. It's lovely though. I don't take it for granted.

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How would you describe the L.A. music community now? From that explanation, it sounds very supportive and nurturing, but I'm interested in your perspective, whether it's just like that with TDE or just in your experience with who you've worked with.

L.A. is a weird place. It's very divided, with the people that are actually from L.A. to the people that come out here and claim L.A. The music industry's a weird place in general. I'm from L.A., so I definitely abide by the L.A. rules before I abide by the music industry rules. But when it comes to the music scene, there's a small community. What I'm learning is the further along I go in my career, the community gets smaller and smaller, and that's a great thing. You find people that are like-minded, and you got to let some friends go sometimes.

But for the most part, the goal is to find common ground that you can really build on. And I feel like I've found my community of people, from Mind Design to Kiefer to D.K. the Punisher to Kal Banx to all of my musician friends, The Catalyst, my band. My brothers, and just all of the musicians that I've been working with for the last 10 years, I still work with the same cats. L.A. is small, it's big, but at the time it's small, and I really want to keep it that way. I'd appreciate it if it stayed that way.

What does that summer mood look and sound like to you?

Well, summer mood has that sunset tint to it. It's like, to me, this album is best listened to riding down Malibu about six o'clock sunset. That's the vibe. I'm a Cali kid through and through, and I hope it translates through with the music. I think we hit it on the ball. If you want a glimpse at what summer's supposed to be, just take a listen to the album, close your eyes, and it should do the trick.

Stepping back, who are your biggest influences?

Oh man, Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway. These are people that my mother listened to when I was growing up. I grew up in the church, so I love Fred Hammond and Noel Jones. I don't know if you know who Noel Jones is, he's a preacher from L.A., his voice is so crazy. My mom sang background for Chaka Khan back in the day, and Michael Jackson. So, I grew up with an ear to R&B for sure, from the '60s, '70s, '80s. Of course I have hip-hop influences, but my spectrum is wide. We could have a 30 minute conversation about all the music I listen to, I promise you.

Lately, I've been listening to a lot of The Beatles. "Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds" has been on repeat for a couple of weeks, then Innervisions [Wonder's 1973 album]. I go back and forth between [Wonder's] Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. Then, my real guilty pleasure is John Mayer, I'm a huge fan.

I love it.

I think with music, and this is my advice to young people, it's like careers almost, you won't know what you want until you taste a few things. I think Gary Gee says that. You got to taste things to know what you want to be. I feel like music is like that too. You can't just listen to country music because you're from the South. You've got to listen to something else just to try it. You don't know, you might like classical music. If you never listen, you will never know.

I did a lot of that when I was younger and I found my vibes for sure. But I listened to some stuff that people probably wouldn't expect. But I think that helps to shape me as a musician in general. I definitely don't shy away from exploring and trying to find different vibes that I really like. One of the most fun parts about music to me, is exploring and finding new things that you never would expect you to enjoy, you know? So, yeah, my spectrum is wide, it's a rainbow for sure.

Growing up in a musical family, how do you feel like that impacted your journey to becoming an artist?

I can't really explain it because it's weird for me to be the artist in my family. I still wake up and kind of laugh because I never expected this. When I was younger, I didn't want to do music. When I was 14, my mom would make us sing in church every Sunday, and I got sick of it. That's when I kind of decided I didn't want to do music. I went on about my life, at about 19, 20 started working dumba** jobs and that turned into me wanting to find something that I was passionate about, and turns out it music was it all along. I had to step away to kind of find it for myself.

But I started really getting serious about music when I was 22, and then I ended up going to school, graduated in 2011 from film school, and just never looked back from there. I think that was what I needed was to really find it for myself, because my brothers' all sing or write songs, and my mother is still active in the industry, and they always said it was what we needed to be doing. I just had to see it for myself and I think that made me a better musician. My life experiences helped shape how I write songs. I appreciate my time away from music, but also I'm glad I found my way back because I don't know what I'd be if I wasn't a musician. I'd probably be—let's not even talk about that.

I'm blessed. My family is amazing. My brother is an amazing singer/songwriter. My older brother Daniel, he's an amazing rapper and he's the writer, and we're all supportive of each other. I know that I probably wouldn't be where I am today without the support of my family and them pushing me to be a better writer and a better musician.



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You come back to where you're supposed to be at some point. You touched on it a little when you talked about your influences, but what advice do you have for younger people that have a passion for music but aren't really sure where to start to pursue music professionally?

Don't be afraid to be wack. Don't be afraid to fall on your a**. You got to start somewhere. But it's just like anything else in life, and I could preach this to the ends of the earth. It doesn't matter what you decide to do or when you decide to do it, but it's about staying dedicated to it and really working at what you want. If you want something then put it in the universe. Write it on a piece of paper, say it every day when you wake up and just don't worry about when it's going to happen. Just keep working.

I think that's the best thing I ever did for myself. I put my head down, I shut the f*** up and I worked for five years on music, and didn't try to release anything, didn't try to do anything. I got to the point where I was so ready to go that I had three projects worth of music ready to go, and we started with Seven Sundays and from there worked our way into being with TDE and all that.

I really developed my craft first and made sure I was confident in what I wanted to hear. So, I think for anybody that wants it, just don't be afraid to fail, and keep working at it. It's not easy, none of this is. But I feel like if you want something, you can just really work at it and it'll come. You just got to be willing to f***ing eat dirt and mud for a little bit. Eventually, hard work pays off, no matter what you do. If you want to sell ice cream, sell ice cream every day. Get up, get your cones right, make sure your freezer's at the right temperature, make sure your music's playing and hit the block and get on that ice cream.

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David Hinds of Steel Pulse

Photo: Mike Martinez

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Steel Pulse's David Hinds On Social Change, Movies & The Band's First New Album In 15 Years

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The frontman and lead songwriter of the GRAMMY-winning reggae band talks 45 years of fighting for social justice, the work that went into the new album, his acting ambitions and more…
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Sep 24, 2019 - 10:38 am

Many passionate social advocates mellow over time, but not David Hinds. Nearly 45 years into his role as leader of GRAMMY winning British reggae outfit Steel Pulse, Hinds is still working hard for change. While their message has always been a global one, Hinds has doubled down on his passion for progress to match the modern state of world and updated his method to the current creative flow of the band, keeping his nose firmly to the grindstone. The result is Mass Manipulation, Steel Pulse's infectious new album and first in 15 years.

We spoke with Hinds while on tour to find out what he poured into the new project, where his working to make an impact on his next tour, his interest in movies and TV, what his future plans involve and more.

Why was this the right time to record and release Mass Manipulation, the band's first studio album in 15 years?

The recordings have been staggered. But because of the circumstances throughout the world for the past five, ten years, informed by activists with regards to terrorism, with regards to racism, with regards to police brutality, and regards to all these setbacks, so many countries being taken advantage of by superpowers.... All these things have always been templates years ago that made what we were doing automatically timeless. We had a year to go, and after recording several tracks, we thought to ourselves that there's still three more tracks that would have made the album right in the pocket as far as things that were happening, really on an escalated scale with things just stepped up a notch. 

Although things have been happening systematically over the past years, it was stepped up a notch. As in, you can see over the past two or three years, there's been a lot of mass shootings taking place across the United States and other parts of the world. There's other protests and demonstrations going on as well. We witnessed that for the first time back in 2011, when we saw the Middle East uprising with taking over from the people that govern them, the dictators of several decades, whether it's Tunisia, whether it's Egypt, whether it's Libya, where in all these countries, all of a sudden, people are realizing that they've got a say. So "Rize" and "Stop You Coming and Come" were  based on my Ethiopian experience. I was in Ethiopia for the very first time in mid-2017.

After that experience, I was so overwhelmed, I thought it was necessary to express my views and put that song down. And then we just wanted a song also that had a solution, a conclusion to it. We didn't think the album concluded anything and we decided to do the cover version of Steve Winwood's "Higher Love." And obviously we formulated the lyrics differently and called it "Higher Love (Rasta Love)." 

When it comes to Rastafarian philosophy, it is the most unifying thing for mankind when it comes to music, period, across the board. So we just thought it was necessary to record the three to four extra songs and complete the album.

Was this album intended to be so global or did it just come out that way? And why do you feel like your message is so universal?

If you go then back through Steel Pulse's albums that we've done, the messages have always been global. We've always been universal. And maybe because you're trying to differentiate between how the Jamaican acts, those that actually record and produce songs in Jamaica I mean, their lyrics are not exactly global in a sense, but a lot of it's to do with just being from Jamaica. Where Steel Pulse is coming from a British background, so it's easy for us to adjust and create songs on that merit and on that kind of platform, because we are coming from a cosmopolitan country. First of all, England as a first world country, as a Western world country was always up to speed with what other countries has been doing whether it's political, whether it's social, whether it comes to business and enterprise. So it was easy for us to keep churning out  songs. That was always going to be a given from day one. I mean the very first, album, "Ku Klux Klan" was on that and you don't find that in the United Kingdom. So that tells you straight away that the band has been international or trans-Atlantic from the get-go.

Because of the weight of that message and because of Steel Pulse's legacy within reggae, the actual songwriting isn't talked about as much, but you're an extremely prolific and accomplished songwriter. After 45 years of the band, is your songwriting process the same as it was back when you were writing those early songs? How has your songwriting process changed?

I would say it varies, it ebbs and flows, but the principle has changed somewhat. Whereas in the earlier years, without a doubt there were songs that were written where the lyrics were written first, and then the music. And then there were songs where the music was written first and then I added lyrics to them, like the song "Ravers" from the True Democracy album, for example. That was an instrumental before and I added lyrics to it. And take "Sound Check" from the Handsworth Revolution album. That was actually a rhythm groove and I decided to add lyrics to it while in the studio. 

This time around it's a bit of me supposing, focusing on punchlines and melodies and trying  to make the lyrics as constructive as I possibly can. That can be a tendency where one can dry up when it comes to the potency and the substance that a song can have and I made sure that I wasn't drying up in that domain. That's what I'm saying. In the early years, like I said, there were a lot of times we'd base the band's lyrics on rehearsal and jamming.

But since the format isn't like that anymore, I tend to be a recluse in my home and I'll wake up in the middle of the night, maybe two, three, four, five o'clock in the morning and jot down lyrics that I found stimulate me, or that I thought provocative. And sometimes I'd purposely write without intentions of recording it, thinking if it's that strong of a song, I'll still remember it by the morning. Then I realized that was not such a good idea. Some damn good ideas I've had, and I should've held on to them so to speak. So I got the iPhone now, the iPad, and hum the melody into those machines, and you wake up the next day you capitalize on what was an idea in the middle of the night. So that's how it's been now.

Early years, a lot of the time the music was there and I added the lyrics to it. It seems to be more difficult for me sometimes. I tend to write the lyrics, having a melody in mind in the first place, and a groove in mind, and then I hear out of the tempo of delivering the songs as the words, and try to match a beat to that and then that's how it goes for me. I'm more concerned about the strength of the lyrics than melody a lot of times. In actual fact both should be supplementing themselves.

Can you tell me about this tour you're planning? As I understand, you're choosing to perform at Native American reservations and juvenile detention centers…

Well, you've heard of the term bucket list. These are the things from the beginning of the band's career, especially when we touched down in the United States (by the way about a year from now is going to be the 40th anniversary since we arrived in the U.S.) that it's always been on my mind to pursue those avenues because those have been always our major concern. We wrote songs like “Soldiers” based on how the Native Americans were decimated, and their land desecrated. Then we've always thought that there was some kind of a bond with ourselves and Native Americans with regards to the slave trade that took place in Africa, and colonialism. So there's always this thing saying, “let me hang out with these guys and see what they are about, and see how they're coping with situations.”

And then there was the other side of things as well, where for instance, I've read up on prisoners, political prisoners in different countries, and people that I've admired over the years were once political prisoners. When you think of all the African leaders for example, that took over Africa, once Africa got independence. They were all prisoners at one point, Nelson Mandela, Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba, Jomo Kenyatta, all these guys at some point served time for their beliefs. So I've always had this thing about going inside jailhouses and seeing how people are coping with their predicament. Especially because a lot of times I don't think prisons are really addressing the situation, what really goes down within the mind of someone who's being seen as a criminal.

I don't think programs have been set in earnest to rehabilitate guys like this. But I've always been intrigued by trying to get into the minds of the incarcerated... And a lot of the time someone just had a bad break, a lousy break and just needed that second lease of life and needed a program to turn their life around for something positive. I mean you'd take the situation of the Central Park Five, who were five youths sent to jail for an alleged rape that took place in New York and Central Park back in 1989.

For all five guys there was not enough evidence for time in jail, but because certain factions of the police wanted to get brownie points, they were put away  for a crime they didn't commit. So these kinds of things, I'm always focused in on situations where it's evident that someone didn't commit a particular crime, or if they did, what is it you can do to help their cause. I mean, obviously if they've committed murder, and the United States said it's the death penalty, you can't do anything about that, because that's the law so to speak. What I'm talking about is those where there is hope of them being rehabilitated...They come out of jail only to find themselves back in there again, because they weren't given a fair crack at the whip.

And there's a movie based on the Central Park Five, When They See Us. One of them got out of jail and God knows, he spent so many years trying to get a job, and he had that stigma hanging over his head, because they said he committed that crime he knew  he didn't. After a while he had no choice but to stand on the side of the streets, selling crack like everybody else. So what I'm saying is, because he didn't do it in the first place, but got ostracized by family, got ostracized by God knows what else and he went out there trying to make a go at life. Once again, couldn't get a job. And before you know they're scraping back up again for another sentence because he didn't have that fair crack of the whip. He had to go out and try and make his ends meet. So these are the things I'm looking at, and this is why I'm taking an interest.

With all of these intense and heavy issues you and the band are addressing, what are some things you do to take care of yourself mentally, whether it's to relax or to make sure that you're mentally healthy?

Well, that's another good question, because right now as it stands, I'm sort of managing the band. I've done a lot of overhauls, I've changed the landscape, the backdrop of what's Steel Pulse's been about, I've changed management, changed the agency, changed certain members of the band. And it hasn't been easy, trying to do all this and still trying to create. You still try to stay focused and have the energy, the physical energy to go out there and perform, because doing this is a 24/7 kind of scenario. Once you're performing, and you've got a rest spot, you know you're not doing that, because you've got to start doing the business side of things until proper management kicks in.

So I try to make it a rule of thumb that I don't let anything stress me too much. Before, I'd be irascible, when I started out in this business, the moment something wasn't the right way, I would go apesh**. And now that's been reduced a heck of a lot, because I'm a total believer in Murphy's Law, trying to compensate and correct it, number one. Number two, I'll say, “all right, you did this much, and how much can you expect to do for the day? You're not getting any younger,” and try to just chill out a bit. So I've managed to put on a different head in how I perceive things. In my spare time, I still do a relative amount of reading in regards to what's going on in the news.

I tend to really wind down when I'm watching a couple of bad boy movies and stuff… I like watching movies in my spare time on Netflix recently, before that you see other ways of trying to access a movie. And that's how I wind down. It takes away from the reality of the world, you see how someone's living in their world in the sense of film.

Lastly, you're coming up on 45 years of Steel Pulse. What are the goals for the future of the band?

Finances being our biggest deficit, I'd like to know that there's enough money generated financially, that I can start to really be more active in other areas in regards to, for example, charity. I mean we dabbled in it, sold T-shirts or presented other avenues in generating funds for certain causes, like the earthquake that took place in Haiti, nine years ago. We did a donation for hurricane Gilbert, but that was in bloody 1988. But I'd like to know we stepped up to the plate some more in regards to certain causes, is what I'm saying. That I'd like to know. For myself personally, I'd like to know that the band's songs get featured more in movies around the world, or documentaries, and be that kind of a force when it comes to reenacting the songs that we do, with the lyrics and all that kind of stuff.

Then I'd also like to be participating in acting. When we first came to the United States, my dream was to participate in one or two movies or TV shows.

And at that time in early 80s throughout the 90s it was very difficult, because the dreadlocks were not a palatable thing in the United States and in film at that time. And then whoever became a dreadlocked individual in Hollywood had a fake Jamaican accent. They had a stereotypical kind of thing going on. I had one or two close shaves trying to get into proper selective roles. There was The Return of Superfly. That storyboard, that script was presented to me when it came out. Never happened in the end, but it was presented as an idea. And I've already managed to do acting for a brief moment in one particular film, called Rock Steady, for which, I actually wrote the title track. So that's what I'd like to know. I like to know we're a bit more active in these domains.

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