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Bob Dylan performing on "MTV Unplugged" in 1994

Photo by Frank Micelotta/Getty Images

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Celebrating 25 Years Of Bob Dylan’s MTV Unplugged' dylan-goes-acoustic-celebrating-25-years-bob-dylan%E2%80%99s-mtv-unplugged-album

Dylan Goes Acoustic: Celebrating 25 Years Of Bob Dylan’s 'MTV Unplugged' Album

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Dylan’s 'MTV Unplugged' album is an important chapter in his catalog—not only because it gave him some of his best commercial numbers in years but because it firmly reinstated the folk troubadour in the cultural conversation
Will Hodge
GRAMMYs
May 6, 2020 - 9:03 am

While MTV’s "Unplugged" has mostly been around in some form or fashion over the last three decades, there’s no denying that it’s most memorable and creatively fertile period was its initial run throughout the entirety of the 1990s. With a deceptively simple ethos of stripping back the sparkle and roar of electric instruments in favor of the "nowhere to hide" proving ground of live acoustic performances, the unforgiving "Unplugged" format generated some of the most iconic musical moments of the decade. Smack dab in the middle of "Unplugged"'s impressive '90s stretch lies one of its most sophisticated and mystifying offerings: Bob Dylan’s MTV Unplugged album, which celebrates its 25th anniversary this month.

Originally recorded over two nights in November of 1994 (the first and, so far, only time that has occurred for an "Unplugged" session), and broadcast on MTV less than a month later, Dylan’s appearance on "Unplugged" was certainly a no-brainer from the jump. The walking pop cultural institution began his career as a folk-song troubadour and delivered some of the most enduring acoustic music of the 1960s across his canonized batch of initial albums. Even as he uninhibitedly dabbled with various genres, songwriting styles and personas across the ensuing decades (to famously mixed audience responses), acoustic music was always anchored at the core of his sonic alchemy. In fact, leading up to Dylan’s "Unplugged" performance, his two prior studio albums—1992’s Good As I Been To You and 1993’s World Gone Wrong—were both acoustic solo albums (something he hadn’t done since the early 1960s) and featured only traditional folk songs in lieu of any self-penned compositions.

By the time Dylan had been booked for his own "Unplugged" episode, the format had already shown its elasticity and adaptability to any performer’s whims with wildly successful results, both artistically and commercially. Eric Clapton’s blues-heavy, career-revitalizing session won six GRAMMYs and is still the best-selling live album of all time. Mariah Carey, Rod Stewart and Tony Bennett’s Unplugged albums were all certified platinum, with the later also winning two GRAMMYs (including Album Of The Year). Younger alt-rock bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots had used their episodes to showcase nuanced versatilities to their more well-known explosive ferocities. Showing its invitationally creative range early on, "Unplugged" had even devoted multiple episodes to some conventionally non-acoustic mediums like hip-hop, R&B and spoken-word poetry.  

As the collision course trajectories of Dylan and "Unplugged" materialized, many wondered just exactly what the mercurial songwriter would have hidden up his sleeve for his episode. Would he deliver a solo acoustic performance with just his guitar and harmonica, evoking both his earliest performances and his two most recent albums? Would his set list feature just the hits to woo a new generation of listeners or be filled with rarities meant to cater to his insatiable longtime fans? Would he echo his infamous "Dylan Goes Electric" performance at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival and forsake the acoustic format altogether for an electric guitar? As it turns out, in true Dylan form, the answers to these questions lay somewhere in between and no one really knew exactly what was going to transpire until he and his band took the intimate stage at Sony Music Studios.      

Across the two-night set, Dylan and his crack-shot quintet band—which included a special appearance from in-demand producer Brendan O’Brien (Pearl Jam, Black Crowes, Stone Temple Pilots, Red Hot Chili Peppers) on organ—played a total of 23 songs, with a handful of them showing up in both performances. The first night’s 10-song set featured a few more rarities, such as the live debuts of "Hazel" and "Dignity" and two songs he hadn’t played since the 1980s—"Tombstone Blues" and "With God On Our Side." The second night's 13-song set featured a few more recognizable classics like "All Along the Watchtower," "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" and "Like A Rolling Stone," while still containing the surprising selections of "Shooting Star" and "John Brown" (an anti-war protest song that he wrote in 1962 that had never made it onto an official studio album). While the collective set lists leaned heavily on Dylan’s prolific ‘60s oeuvre, he managed to also sprinkle in a smattering of tunes from his ‘70s ("Hazel," "Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door"), '80s ("Everything Is Broken," "Shooting Star") and ‘90s ("Dignity") releases as well.  

When MTV first broadcast Dylan’s "Unplugged" episode on Dec. 14, 1994, the hour-long format of the televised event understandably required some trimming of Dylan’s compelling two-night outing. Gone were both night’s openers ("Tombstone Blues" and "Absolutely Sweet Marie") and, somewhat surprisingly, neither version of the sublime "I Want You" appeared in the MTV broadcast, even though the dreamy pedal steel and bowed bass ballad garnered an enthusiastic audience response during both performances (though, it should be noted that "I Want You" was added back in for an airing of the show on PBS). The eight songs chosen for air somewhat functioned as a quasi-retrospective hits package, perfectly showcasing Dylan as a confident frontman and effortless bandleader who knew his songs well enough to continually pull at their melodic, instrumental and lyrical threads in ways that created new versions of enshrined classics. "The Times They Are A-Changin'" saunters along on Dylan’s impish delivery and some gorgeous dobro-organ interplay, the controlled pulse of "All Along The Watchtower" lands somewhere between Dylan’s acoustic original and Jimi Hendrix’s fiery electric cover, and "Like A Rolling Stone" feels more seasoned and less acerbic than his definitive Highway 61 Revisited version (and the broadcast featured a charmingly fumbled intro that drew out Dylan’s only real banter with the audience to let them know the band had gotten ahead of him). Other standouts include the slow burn, barroom slink of "Shooting Star," the refreshing swagger-and-shuffle of "Dignity" and the hymn-like anti-war existentialism of "With God On Our Side."

Dylan’s episode was packaged for release as his 40th official album and hit the market as MTV Unplugged on May 2, 1995. Along with the eight songs aired on the original MTV broadcast, the U.S. version of the record added three more cuts: "Tombstone Blues" was positioned as the rollicking opener, while "John Brown" and "Desolation Row" were plugged in mid-album as a back-to-back double shot of '60s protest sentiments and cinematic Beat poetics. Other international versions of MTV Unplugged also included Dylan’s relaxed take on the surrealist folk of "Love Minus Zero/No Limit" from his first night’s set list, which meant that U.S. customers would have to purchase the VHS release to score the elusive track. About a month prior to the album’s release, there was also a special promo CD single of "Dignity" made for the European market that featured both the MTV Unplugged live version and the Bob Dylan’s Greatest Hits Vol. 3 studio version produced by O’Brien.  

Much like the episodes for Paul McCartney, Eric Clapton, Neil Young and Tony Bennett that came before his, Dylan used the "Unplugged" stage as a primetime moment to speak to his older audience and also to introduce himself to a younger one within an environment that both groups would find extremely familiar. The mid-‘90s were still a peak time of monoculture, and legions of teenagers remained perma-glued to MTV and its various original programming efforts—especially the vibrantly popular "Unplugged." Even if most younger viewers were not as familiar with Dylan’s catalog as their parents were, there was some excitement in tuning in to hear the producer of Pearl Jam’s Vs. and Stone Temple Pilots’ Core play organ and to hear the original version of "Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door" that they may have only known through the Guns N’ Roses covers on the Days Of Thunder soundtrack and Use Your Illusion II album.

Dylan’s MTV Unplugged album is an important chapter in his catalog, not only because it gave him some of his best commercial numbers in years (it was certified gold in the U.S. where it reached as high as number 23 on the Billboard 200, and it charted even better in the U.K. where it cracked the top 10), but also because it wonderfully reinstated Dylan within the cultural conversation just prior to him releasing one of his career-defining works, 1997’s Time Out Of Mind. After letting his "Unplugged" set remind listeners of his otherworldy ability to translate acoustic-based music like no other, Dylan once again surprised his audience by collaborating with Daniel Lanois (U2, Peter Gabriel, Emmylou Harris) to craft the atmospherically bluesy Time Out Of Mind—a platinum-selling album (hist first since the late ‘70s) that would go on to win three GRAMMYs (including Album Of The Year at the 1998 awards show) and reestablish his relevancy as one of the greatest singer-songwriters of the last half century (and counting).

With Dylan’s official The Bootleg Series releases already up to 15 volumes (the celebrated Travelin’ Thru: 1967-1969 entry featuring the famous Johnny Cash sessions just released last November), one can only hope that there will eventually be a set devoted to his noteworthy Unplugged moment. Not only could listeners finally have a proper way to experience all 23 tracks from both nights of filming, but it would also provide an opportunity to have some official releases from his four-show acoustic stand at N.Y.C.’s The Supper Club from the year prior—an important footnote to the story as it is rumored that Dylan’s scrapping of those acoustic recordings helped pave the way for him finally committing to doing an "Unplugged" taping.    

How Pearl Jam's "Unplugged" Performance Captured The Grunge Gods' Pop Cultural Rise

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Kurt Cobain

Photo by Frank Micelotta / Getty Images

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Nirvana's 'MTV Unplugged In New York' Turns 25 nirvana-manager-danny-goldberg-talks-25-years-mtv-unplugged-new-york

Nirvana Manager Danny Goldberg Talks 25 Years of 'MTV Unplugged In New York'

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The Recording Academy speaks to the former manager about the lead-up, taping and lasting legacy of Nirvana's landmark acoustic performance
Will Hodge
GRAMMYs
Nov 1, 2019 - 11:01 am

"Good evening. This is off our first record. Most people don’t own it."

With this unassuming and charmingly self-deprecating kick-off from frontman Kurt Cobain, Nirvana launched into their feverishly anticipated episode of "MTV Unplugged"—a crystallizing performance that quickly became one of, if not the most, beloved and iconic gigs of their all-too-short career. Often celebrated for showcasing both the band and the "Unplugged" format at each of their respective creative heights, the stunningly intimate episode spawned the MTV Unplugged In New York album that was released on Nov. 1, 1994. For the 25th anniversary of the GRAMMY-winning, Billboard-topping, multi-platinum album, MTV Unplugged In New York is getting an impressive expanded vinyl reissue that drops 25 years to the day after the album’s original release.   

In addition to the enhanced aesthetic upgrades of an exclusive gatefold layout with celebratory silver-foiled front and back artwork, this MTV Unplugged in New York vinyl reissue finds the album making its double-disc debut with the addition of five extra rehearsal tracks—"Come As You Are," "Polly," "Plateau," "Pennyroyal Tea" and their revered cover of David Bowie's "The Man Who Sold The World"—that were previously only available in video form on the 2007 DVD release. This reissue is pressed on heavyweight 180-gram black vinyl and the band's website is offering a limited-edition multi-color variant as well. 

With both MTV Unplugged In New York and the show itself celebrating milestones this month (the album turns 25 on Nov. 1 and the very first episode of "Unplugged" aired 30 years ago on Nov. 26, 1989), the Recording Academy spoke to former Nirvana manager Danny Goldberg about the lead-up, taping and lasting legacy of Nirvana's landmark acoustic performance.       

Danny Goldberg: As a music fan, I really liked the idea of "Unplugged." For the band, creatively, it provided an opportunity to experiment with acoustic music, which Kurt really liked. As much as he loved punk music, he was also a really big fan of acoustic singer-songwriters like Jad Fair. Also, the timing of it was perfect because it allowed the band to continue their presence on MTV without them having to be involved with making another music video.

GRAMMYs

The opportunity to record their own episode of "Unplugged" presented itself at an interesting time in the band's career. After two years of tumultuously navigating the cultural tide change spearheaded by their sophomore album Nevermind, Cobain, bassist Krist Novoselic and drummer Dave Grohl released the raucously powerful (and famously unpolished) In Utero in late September of 1993. The album’s lead single, "Heart-Shaped Box," hit number one on the Billboard Modern Rock chart and was accompanied by a stunningly surreal music video that was intricately created by Cobain and directed by photographer Anton Corbijn. The video quickly became an MTV mainstay and went on to win two MTV Video Music Awards at the following year’s VMAs.  

Danny Goldberg: The music video for "Heart-Shaped Box" was an extremely elaborate production and Kurt didn’t really have an idea for a follow-up video that was going to live up to that impact. However, he didn't want to stop the connection between the band and MTV on the In Utero cycle prematurely. The relationship between Nirvana and MTV was really important to Kurt from the very beginning. From his point of view, MTV was the number one connector between Nirvana and their fans in the United States.  

As "Unplugged" rose to become a legitimate pop cultural force in the early-to-mid 1990s with episodes by Eric Clapton, Mariah Carey, Rod Stewart, and 10,000 Maniacs making major impacts on radio, singles charts and album sales, there became a bit of a creative formula that continually proved successful and held up well to repetition: imaginatively rework your hits on acoustic instrumentation, invite a well-known special guest, and sprinkle in a familiar cover song or two. While those ingredients would still end up being present throughout Nirvana's "Unplugged" performance, the band's creative variations on them were not exactly what MTV was initially envisioning.

Danny Goldberg: MTV had made their requests for guests and song selections that were more in line with the typical "Unplugged" format. They raised the possibility of having guests like Eddie Vedder or Tori Amos—artists who would be well-known to the MTV audience—but I don’t think those suggestions were even passed along to Kurt. He was a real-life artistic genius and complete control freak, so he knew exactly what he was going to do. It wasn't a marketing moment for Kurt, it was a creative moment. He didn't take any creative suggestions about art and to him, Nirvana's "Unplugged" was going to be art.

For their "Unplugged" set, the band was augmented by cellist Lori Goldstein and second guitarist Pat Smear, who had just been invited to tour with the band a few months prior. When it came to the setlist, the band was well aware that the raw, livewire power of their biggest hits—"Smells Like Teen Spirit," "Lithium," "In Bloom"—wouldn’t translate properly into an acoustic format. Instead, they crafted an imagenitively special set around some of the more down-tempo deep cuts from Bleach and Nevermind, as well as three tracks from their recently released In Utero album. The song selection was rounded out by a trio of unexpected (yet wildly successful) covers of The Vaselines, David Bowie, and blues legend Lead Belly, plus three songs accompanied by their special guests, brothers Cris and Curt Kirkwood of The Meat Puppets—a band Cobain had become a fan of after seeing them open for Black Flag in the 1980s.

Danny Goldberg: The Meat Puppets were actually touring with Nirvana at the time. It was Kurt's idea to have them on board and he was very much driving the car as far as creative decisions. My assumption is that he knew he could do what he wanted to do on "Unplugged." Whatever misgivings MTV may have had as far as their normal way of measuring commerciality and programming, they weren’t going to piss off Nirvana. And Kurt was right, they totally pulled it off. 
 
Earlier this year, Goldberg released the book "Serving The Servant: Remembering Kurt Cobain," in which he devotes a whole chapter to Nirvana's "Unplugged" show. In it, he points to Cobain’s solo performance of "Pennyroyal Tea" as his favorite moment of the episode. However, there were some pre-show uncertainties as to whether it would be a full band version, what key it would be in, or if it would even be played at all. When the song came up on the setlist during the actual taping, it’s fate was still to be determined—a fact evidenced by Cobain turning to ask his bandmates, "Am I going to do this by myself?"

Danny Goldberg: I always liked "Pennyroyal Tea" a lot because I think it's some of his best writing. So, hearing him play it by himself on "Unplugged," I was just so proud of him for pulling it off and so moved by the way he sang it. He had so many different talents—as a songwriter, as an image-maker, as an extremely good guitarist—to me he also had one of the greatest voices ever. I loved the intimacy of his vocal on that performance, especially combined with some of his best lyrics.

After Nirvana's "Unplugged" taping had concluded, Cobain had some mixed feelings about the performance. By the next morning, however, he eventually settled into a clearer picture of the uniquely meaningful moment his band had created together. "At first, Kurt was freaked out about it," attests Goldberg, "but when I talked to him the next day, he had already realized that they had done something special and he was really proud of it." 

Nirvana's "Unplugged" episode aired on Dec. 16, 1993, and less than four months later Cobain was found dead in his Seattle home. In the days following his death, MTV played a plethora of Nirvana material, with their "Unplugged" episode serving both artistically and aesthetically as somewhat of a self-made eulogy. MTV Unplugged In New York would be released that following November and it would go on to win a GRAMMY for Best Alternative Music Album and be certified 5x platinum.  

Danny Goldberg: I think the Unplugged record is equally important to every other record that they made. That's not always the case for a live record, especially an acoustic one. There's so much creativity in it and there are songs that the band had never recorded before. There was also the intense drama of it being recorded just a few months before Kurt's death. Mainly though, it all comes down to the sheer emotional power and excellence of it. When people talk to me about Nirvana, as many people cite Unplugged as their favorite album as will mention Nevermind or In Utero. The band left such a legacy in such a short amount of time and its deeply affected people. A day rarely goes by that I don't see somebody wearing a Nirvana T-shirt and often it’s people that may not have even been born when Kurt was alive. It speaks to the power and beauty of his art, and "Unplugged" was certainly one of the performances that really showcased that. It’s an incredibly significant part of the band's legacy.    

Nirvana's 'Nevermind': For The Record

Dave Mason

Dave Mason

Photo: Chris Jensen

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Why Dave Mason Remade 'Alone Together' In 2020 dave-mason-interview-alone-together-again

Dave Mason On Recording With Rock Royalty & Why He Reimagined His Debut Solo Album, 'Alone Together'

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The ex-Traffic guitarist has played with everyone from Jimi Hendrix to George Harrison to Fleetwood Mac—now, he's taken another stab at his classic 1970 debut solo album
Morgan Enos
GRAMMYs
Jan 4, 2021 - 3:33 pm

Dave Mason is charmingly blasé when looking back at his life and career, which any guitarist would rightfully give their fretting hand to have. "I did 'All Along The Watchtower' with Hendrix," he flatly tells GRAMMY.com, as if announcing that he checked the mail today. "George [Harrison] played me Sgt. Pepper's at his house before it came out," he adds with a level of awe applicable to an evening at the neighbors' for casserole. 

Last year, Mason re-recorded his 1970 debut solo album, Alone Together, which most artists would consider a career-capping milestone. When describing the project's origins, he remains nonchalant: "It was for my own amusement, to be honest with you." 

Fifteen years ago, when the Rock And Roll Hall Of Famer started to kick around the album's songs once again in the studio, he didn't think it was for public consumption—until his wife and colleagues encouraged him to reverse that stance. On his latest release, Mason gives longtime listeners and new fans an updated take on the timeless Alone Together, this time featuring his modern-day road dogs, a fresh coat of production paint and a winking addendum in the title: Again.

Alone Together…Again, which was released last November physically via Barham Productions and digitally via Shelter Records, does what In The Blue Light (2018) and Tea For The Tillerman² (2020) did for Paul Simon and Yusuf / Cat Stevens, respectively. It allows Mason, a prestige artist, to take another stab at songs from his young manhood. Now, songs like "Only You Know And I Know," "Shouldn't Have Took More Than You Gave" and "Just A Song," which demonstrated Mason's ahead-of-the-curve writing ability so early in his career, get rawer, edgier redos here.

Mason cofounded Traffic in 1967 and appeared on the Birmingham rock band's first two albums, Mr. Fantasy (1967) and Traffic (1968). The latter featured one of Mason's signature songs: "Feelin' Alright?" which Joe Cocker, Three Dog Night and The Jackson 5 recorded. After weaving in and out of Traffic's ranks multiple times, Mason took the tunes he planned for their next album and tracked them with a murderers' row of studio greats in 1970. (That year, Traffic released John Barleycorn Must Die, sans Mason, which is widely regarded as their progressive folk masterpiece.)

Over the ensuing half-century, Mason has toured steadily while accruing an impressive body of work as a solo artist; Alone Together...Again is a welcomed reminder of where it all began. 

GRAMMY.com caught up with Dave Mason to talk about his departure from Traffic, his memories of the original Alone Together and why the new 2020 takes are, in his words, "so much better."

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Where do you feel Alone Together stands in your body of work? Is it your favorite album you've made?

No, I wouldn't say it's the favorite, but it's sort of spread out. When people ask me, "Well, what's your favorite music? What are you listening to?" I'm like, "I don't know. Which genre do you want me to talk about?" I can't pick it out and say it's my all-time favorite. There are other things I like just as much.

I mean from your solo canon, specifically.

Well, even from a solo thing, 26 Letters, 12 Notes, which I put out [in 2008], went right under the radar, because trying to put new stuff out these days is … an exercise in futility. And that was a great album! Really good. [Alone Together] definitely had great songs on it, and it still holds up, redone. So, from that point of view, it's great. It's probably one of my faves, yes.

When you made the original album, you had just left Traffic, correct?

Pretty much after the second album [1968's Traffic], I moved over here in 1969, to the U.S., for a couple of reasons. Traffic was not a viable option for me anymore, from the other three's point of view. So I decided to come to the place where everything originated from, which is America. Bluegrass, which had its roots in Europe and everything else, is uniquely American music. So that, and probably the 98-cents-to-the-dollar taxes, too. But I mostly came here for musical reasons.

Which divergent creative directions did you and the other Traffic guys wish to go in?

Had that not have happened, all those songs on Alone Together would have been on the next Traffic album.

Read: WATCH: Dave Mason & The Quarantines Uplift With New Video Version Of "Feelin' Alright"

You had quite an ensemble for the original Alone Together: pianist Leon Russell, vocalist Rita Coolidge, bassist Chris Etheridge and others. Were there specific creative reasons for involving these musicians? Or was it more in the spirit of getting some friends together?

I knew Rita and a few other people from early on, being in Delaney & Bonnie. All those people kind of knew each other. Leon Russell was new. I think Rita was going out with Leon at the time. A lot of them were gathered together by Tommy LiPuma, who coproduced Alone Together with me. Otherwise, I was just new here. I didn't know who was who.
Many of those guys were the top session guys in town: [drummers] Jim Keltner, Jim Gordon and [keyboardist] Larry Knechtel, for instance. Leon, I had him play on a couple of songs because I'd met him, I knew him, and I wanted his piano style to be on a couple of things. He put the piano on after the tracks were cut.

Let's flash-forward to Alone Together… Again. Tell me about the musicians you wrangled for this one.

Well, that's my band, the road band that I tour with. [Drummer] Alvino Bennett, [guitarist and background vocalist] Johnne Sambataro—Johnne's been with me for nearly 40 years, on and off—and [keyboardist and bassist] Tony Patler. 

Other than the slight differences in arrangements, there's more energy in the tracks. Other than the vocals, they were pretty much all cut live in the studio. The solos were cut live, because that's my live road band. "Only You Know And I Know," "Look At You Look At Me," "Shouldn't Have Took More Than You Gave," all those songs have been in my set for 50 years, on and off, so they knew them.

If I never had that session band on the original album and could have taken them on the road for a month, then that original album would have had a little more of an edge to it, probably. This new incarnation of it has more of that live feel. Those boys knew the songs. They didn't really have to think about them, but just get in there and play.

Aside from that, there are slightly different arrangements. "World In Changes" is a major departure, "Sad And Deep As You" was basically a live track cut on XM Radio probably 12, 14 years ago and "Can't Stop Worrying, Can't Stop Loving" is a little bit more fleshed out, which I like. The other songs pretty much stick to the originals. 

"Just A Song," I think, has a little more zip to it. It's got the addition of John McFee from The Doobie Brothers, who put that banjo on it, which is cool. Then there's Gretchen Rhodes, who does a lot of the girl background vocals on these tracks.

What compelled you to change up the rhythm of "World In Changes"?

I just wanted to see what would happen, taking one of my songs and adapting it to something else. I have a version of it cut the way it was originally done, and it was a question of whether I stick to that and put that on the album or do something exciting and totally different. To me, it came out so cool. The sentiment is timeless, and I wanted something on there that was new—an older song, done in a new way.

It seems like you still feel poignancy and urgency in these songs. Besides the fact that the album's 50th anniversary just passed, why did you return to the well of Alone Together?

Well, I started playing around with doing this 15 years ago. Mostly, it was for my own amusement, to be honest with you. But then, as it started to come together, and it was approaching 50 years since the [release of the] original, my wife and some people around me were like, "You should put this out." That's how it all led up to this.

Any other lyrical or musical changes that the average listener may not notice?

As to whether this ever reaches the ears of some new people, it would be nice. It seems unless you have some Twitter trick or social media thing happen, trying to get people aware [is difficult]. In other words, if a younger audience could hear this, I'm pretty sure they would like it. You'll probably have some people out there—the purists—but otherwise, I don't know. 

"Sad And Deep As You" is so much better than the original version, frankly. To me, it holds up. I think my vocals are better, which is one of the big reasons why I decided to redo it in the first place.

When you said "purists," there was an edge in your voice.

[Long chuckle.] Everybody's got their tastes and opinions, and that's the way that is. Same reason they booed Bob Dylan when he had The Band behind him. Some people are that way.

Even if people aren't familiar with the original album, I'd think your backstory would resonate with them. Your role in George Harrison's All Things Must Pass comes to mind.

Yeah, I played on a bunch of things. With All Things Must Pass, I pretty much just played acoustic guitar stuff in there with a group of people … George gave me my first sitar and played me Sgt. Pepper's at his house before it came out. I did "All Along The Watchtower" with Hendrix.

A lot of it's available on my website. There's a lot of cool stuff on there. On my YouTube channel, there's a great live version of "Watchtower" from the Journey and Doobie Brothers tour we did four years ago. But we'd be here for another half hour or more if we went over everybody I appeared with and everything I've been on.

Read: It's Not Always Going To Be This Grey: George Harrison's 'All Things Must Pass' At 50

Regarding Hendrix, that's an experience that not many other people can say they've had.

Very few. Very few. There are a lot of great guitar players out there, but there are no more Jimi Hendrixes.

You also played with Fleetwood Mac in the '90s, yeah?

I was with Fleetwood Mac from '94 to '96. We did an album called Time, which sort of went under the radar somehow. It didn't get promoted.

Why was that?

I don't know. It's not a bad album, but Warner Bros. was trying to force the issue of getting Stevie Nicks and whatshisname back in there.

Lindsey Buckingham?

Yeah, Lindsey. Christine McVie was on the album, but she didn't go on the road with us. It was kind of weird. The only original members were Mick [Fleetwood] and John [McVie]. It was a little bit like a Fleetwood Mac cover band, but it was cool. It was fun to do for a couple of years, but then they got back together again. C'est la vie. There you go.

Anything else you want to express about reimagining Alone Together 50 years down the road?

I don't think it's just the fact that it's my stuff because there are certain songs I've done that I would not address again. But the thing about those songs is that they all have very timeless themes. "World In Changes," I mean, that could have been written a month ago. To redo them doesn't seem that out of place to me.

Director John McDermott Talks New Jimi Hendrix Documentary, 'Music, Money, Madness … Jimi Hendrix in Maui'

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[From left]: Bartees Strange, Anjimile and Jordana Nye. Photos courtesy of Julia Leiby, Maren Celest & Grand Jury Music

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What's It Like To Release A Debut During COVID? bartees-strange-anjimile-more-what-its-release-debut-album-pandemic

Bartees Strange, Anjimile & More On What It's Like To Release A Debut Album In A Pandemic

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A variety of rising artists sit down to discuss the unusual and inopportune circumstances of releasing a debut record during COVID, and what it takes to make the best of an impossible situation
Mike Hilleary
GRAMMYs
Oct 27, 2020 - 1:36 pm

Video-chatting through her phone, Wichita-based singer/songwriter Jordana Nye shows me a tattoo she recently got on her right forearm. Written in small red ink is a single word: "numb." "I feel like I've just been kind of numb throughout the whole thing—like my tattoo," she says. Laughing at herself, almost as an aside, she quickly adds, "The decisions you make when you're in quarantine."

The "whole thing" Nye is referencing is of course the increasingly fragile state of the music industry as a result of the coronavirus pandemic, a global health crisis that has in just a few short months forced the closure of concert venues across the country, the cancelation of festivals and tours, and manifested an overwhelming sense of uncertainty for the untold number of musical artists that make recording and performing songs their livelihood. While established, high-profile acts such as Bruce Springsteen, Lady Gaga, and BTS are fully capable of releasing a new album in the middle of a volatile and complicated environment and experience little to no impact on their financial bottom line and cultural cachet, those like Nye, who only just made her first steps into the industry with the release of her debut album Classical Notions of Happiness in March, are finding themselves mentally and professionally hobbled at the exact moment they are trying to introduce themselves to the greater music listening community.

In addition to Nye (who has followed Classical Notions of Happiness with the EP Something to Say and has a second EP … To You scheduled for release in December), a variety of rising artists, including Christian Lee Hutson (Beginners), Anjimile (Giver Taker), Bartees Strange's Bartees Cox Jr. (Live Forever), and Nation of Language frontman Ian Devaney (introduction, Prescence) all sat down to discuss the unusual and inopportune circumstances of releasing a debut record during COVID, and what it takes to make the best of an impossible situation.

The Initial Shock

Jordana Nye: I kind of went through like the worst depression. I mean, you just gotta keep swimming. It's hard to sometimes. But you get medicine, get therapy, talk about stuff. That's what I did, and it helped a lot. I couldn't even do anything for maybe three months straight. It was the worst.

Ian Devaney: It was kind of disbelief, especially when I realized how long it would go on and I realized what that would do to small and mid-sized venues. I was like, even when we do come back from this, the landscape is just gonna be so totally different. What does this mean as far as these businesses as independent hubs in the community? But my brain also just zoomed out to the corporate consolidation of touring above the D.I.Y. level basically. Are the only people who are going to be able to keep their venues open the ones who aren't as artist-friendly?

Bartees Cox Jr.: After we released my EP Say Goodbye to Pretty Boy, it was crazy. We got invited to play this WNYC soundcheck live show thing on March 12. And then we also had a show in New York on March 13. And this was when the shit was really going down in New York. And we were there, we played the thing, and we were all like, "Dang, this looks like it's gonna get really serious." And then after the EP came out, my team and I were like, "Well, do we just not do anything for a year and a half? We have momentum now. We should just ride this and keep writing." And that was just it, let's just follow the wave. It's working right now. So why why stop, you know?

Read More: Anjimile Opens Up On 'Giver Taker,' Sobriety, Identifying As Trans & More

The Road Is Closed

Christian Lee Hutson: Just from my perspective, the thing that seems to help debut artists the most is supporting other artists on tour, and that element has been completely taken out of the picture. Having your name tied to whatever the act is you're opening for and getting a chance to be in front of new people that might not have heard you on whatever streaming playlist, that aspect is probably the most damaging.

Ian Devaney: I've always been someone who feels like Nation of Language captures more people through the live show. And so when it became clear that we weren't going to be touring for a long time, I was like, "Oh, I guess we're doomed. I guess we'll put these things out and maybe some people listen to them, and then it will just fade away and we'll get on with the next thing and wait. But I was very shocked and flattered that the record started doing much better than I ever thought. That was very exciting. I feel very grateful for that.

Bartees Cox Jr.: I'm glad that we put Live Forever out now, instead of right at the beginning of the pandemic, because I don't think people knew what the f**k was going on in March. I saw some bands, put some records out that were really good in February and January who had huge tours booked all summer. I feel like this really hit them in the chest. That just takes so much like gas and energy out of you.

Ian Devaney: We were three shows into a tour, when they were like, "OK, everyone has to go home." It wasn't just disbelief that a dangerous thing was happening, but disbelief from the whiplash of the fact that we were about to be on the road for a month. But now, I'm back in my apartment. There was confusion and then, yeah, just real sadness of not knowing when I'm gonna get to do this again.

Christian Lee Hutson: Doing my first real headline tour, that was supposed to happen. I was supposed to on it right now, actually. In June I was also going to tour with one of my favorite bands, The Magnetic Fields. I was excited to spend a month with them. Those are two things I feel like, "Oh, man, those would have been cool." And hopefully, in a world where we're safer, those things can still happen.

Read More: Bartees Strange On 'Live Forever' & Why "It Shouldn't Be Weird To See Black Rock Bands"

Ian Devaney: I was really looking forward to playing the Seattle show on our canceled tour. KEXP seemed like the first radio station that consistently was reaching out to us and playing us on a regular basis, and we kind of developed a close relationship with them. And to me they've always been sort of one of the gatekeepers of like, "Oh, I'm in this level now. KEXP knows about my band." And so, them just being excited for us to come and us getting the sense that people just driving around in their cars during the day were hearing our music—and that being such a strange thing to wrap our heads around—it felt like we were gonna show up and be like, "We've arrived."

Jordana Nye: I was going on my first tour. I felt unprepared. I was also really nervous. And then when the COVID stuff started, there was a surreal moment where I was like, "What? I was just about to do something that could impact my life in such a big way and now it's gone." I was told there was gonna be hotels.

Christian Lee Hutson: Not touring is a huge change in my life in general. I've been touring with other people or just on my own for the last 11 years in my life. So to not do it at the one time I've finally released an album and not be doing it feels hilarious.

Bartees Cox Jr.: I keep telling myself, "It's just delayed. You will get to play the record for years. It will always exist." It won't be the same, but I also think when shows open up, people are gonna be really hyped to go to shows. The bottom line is, it'll be okay. Again, I have no choice. It's hard to like dwell on that. I knew that would be the case, before I put it out.

Fiscal Feasibility

Anjimile: I would describe it as not an ideal time, but I also have never monetized like my music career in a major way. It's not like, "Oh, no, all this money I usually make is gone!" [Laughs.]

Christian Lee Hutson: My wife and I are both living on unemployment and savings right now and just kind of hold on as long as we can, just hoping that touring can come back before we're in a crippling amount of debt.

Ian Devaney: The unemployment insurance is currently supporting me. When we left for tour the restaurant I was working at I said, "I understand if you won't have a space to me when I get back," but they were like, "We I think we'll be able to work the schedule," and I thought, "Perfect." But then the reason we came back was because everything was shutting down. And so I got an email suggesting we should all file for an appointment, and we'll see what happens.

Jordana Nye: At least I have my job back in Wichita. I work at a brewing company called Norton's. They're super involved in live music and it's a great place. I was like a barback during the summer. And now I'm a dishwasher. It's humbling.

Team Building and Content Alternatives

Bartees Cox Jr.: I just feel sometimes [as a new artist] you're the only one that knows that you have something special, and you just gotta build around it. And then all of a sudden people just show up around you. You have a team and you have a plan. But you got to make the first step.

Anjimile: It definitely changed the scope and nature of the promotional cycle. When it became apparent that touring was not happening I was like, "OK, so I guess we'll have to get creative and do other things to generate and maintain interest in this record."

Christian Lee Hutson: I think everyone was just flying by the seat of their pants, like, "We'll do the best that we can do and we're just gonna do everything that we can as we think of it." Those were really the kind of conversations that were had. The funny thing about all of this is all you can do is throw your hands up and just do it, surrender yourself to it. And I feel like everyone has a label and Phoebe and me and my management, everyone has been pretty good at just being like, "Alright, we're just gonna roll with it."

Anjimile: I'm also working on building a team. I now have a booking agent. And I'm talking with managers for the first time and that's super exciting. I'm doing all these behind the scenes team building stuff.

Ian Devaney: We've actually, in the middle of the pandemic, gotten booking agents. And they were like, "This is weird, but we an tell people about the band for when things open back up. We can get your name into circulation of who's being considered for what." You can get the sense that they are ready to just throw us intensely on the road, and we are ready to do that as well.

Bartees Cox Jr.: Will Yip, who runs memory music, was just like, "This thing is super fresh. It's good no matter what. You got to just trust us." I was the most apprehensive because no one's ever cared about my music or anything I've ever done. So I was like, "Well, OK, if this is what you think, I trust you guys." And they were all just so passionate about it and they just worked so f**king hard. My publicist Jamie and manager Tim, they just really pushed the record really, really hard. Teams are so important. I didn't know how important they were until really this year, how much how much it helps to have a label and a manager and a publicist that love you and love your record, and are going to put in extra hours and go the extra mile. That was the difference-maker. I think that's why it didn't matter what was happening around us because yes, it's an election year, yes the world was literally ending, yeah there's a pandemic. But this record is f**king good. And it's not the first time a great record has come out when things are really bad.

Anjimile: I got hit up by a U.K. booking agency first, and they were like, "Hey, obviously, there's no touring happening right now, but we love your sound and we're looking into the future to see where you would fit in certain clubs, and we just want you on the team." The same thing happened with my new U.S. booking agent. She was like, "We've been following you for a couple years, seen your name everywhere. Booking doesn't really exists, but I want to work with you and get you on the team and we can talk about slowly building what a live Anjimile thing looks like."

Ian Devaney: I think part of it is letting fans know that we're not stopping. It often helps me emotionally invest in a band if I can believe that the band is really in it to keep moving. I don't know if that makes sense. People will email us or reach out through Bandcamp and things like that. And it's always just really nice to hear people's stories of how they've enjoyed the record.

Jordana Nye: My team taught me to just try to keep working and keep busy until we get a sense of what the hell is going to happen—and just release music because it's really all you can do. Anything you can do, you just have to do it.

Anjimile: I think the main idea for me is just galvanizing and continually engaging my social media presence. My social media numbers have climbed substantially as a result of this release, which is exciting. And not to sound like a f**king music industry business guy, but content is helpful, and so I'm just trying to create chill content without losing my mind. We're about to have a contest. We've got a video coming out. Hopefully people can sit at home and watch. I want to try and create content that folks can engage with at home. Part of our merch is boxers. We were like, "What about hats?" "Well, nobody's gonna see the hat." "What about fanny packs?" "Nobody's going anywhere." "OK. Boxers. People will be at home wearing them." We're just trying to be as creative as possible.

Jordana Nye: I've got some music video stuff in the works. There's a new one coming out that was filmed in my home of Wichita for "I Guess This is Life," and my best friend is in it with me. It's very, very sweet. And I can't wait for it to be out. But I'm also shooting a music video out here in L.A. for the track "Reason." It’s going to feature me walking an invisible dog on a leash. I'm f**king excited for that. I can't wait.

Ian Devaney: Our manager has been really kind of fantastic and diligent. In his mind there's still people who don't know the record. And so just because it came out in May, doesn't mean we're not going to keep working it as though everyone knows it, because they don't.

Mental Health Whiplash

Christian Lee Hutson: It's like, for debut artists, what do you have to compare it to?

Bartees Cox Jr.: I almost feel like more people are listening to music now than they were before, like really listening through albums, and really interacting with them.

Christian Lee Hutson: I think it would make me crazy to sit around and just be like, "Damn it, I spent all this time on this and of course when my record comes out, this is what happens." I mean, I'm actually kind of encouraged by the response to the album just in general, because I feel like it's such a weird time for music to come out and I'm happy that anyone has found it at all considering it's come out in the most turbulent year in recent memory. That aspect I feel positive about, like it was weirdly worth it, even though I'm not doing all of the things that I thought I would be doing a year ago.

Bartees Cox Jr.: I mean I've never had fans like I do now, and I'm doing all this during a pandemic.

Ian Devaney: In a strange way, I'm glad we're putting music out now. I feel like we are, as much as anyone can, engaging with the madness and sort of being defiant in the face of the madness and not giving up on trying to be creative and trying to dream big about what we can do in the future.

Anjimile: It feels surreal, but at the same time I've released music locally in Boston over the years. And nothing has ever come of that. And so releasing an album nationally with a label, I think my expectations were actually pretty low. Usually when I put out music nobody cares, you know? Why should they really care? And this time some people cared, and I was like, "Holy f**k." Even that that was beyond my expectations. And so I don't know, I'm just kind of trying to go with it. Because even though things feel weird, and at times, unfair and strange I don't know what is going to happen in the next three months, six months, nine months, right? I'm just cautiously cautiously optimistic about what will happen next. Because I do think that so far, things have actually happened right on time. Even though shit is really weird right now, and I don't know what's going to happen next, maybe something positive in my career will occur. Who knows?

Bartees Cox Jr.: I was talking to a friend about this. You look at these areas in music, or in America, like Vietnam War era music or these other big social phenomenon and the music that came from it, I think that one day people will look back on this quarantine pandemic era and think, "All these records came out during this weird ass time are interesting because of it."

What Comes Next

Bartees Cox Jr.: I was thinking that bigger artists that need bigger studios are gonna kind of be hamstrung by this where more D.I.Y. people can just be like, "Yeah, I'll write another record."

Jordana Nye: Going on tour, getting experienced would have helped my career a lot in way. But working on new music is also helping it.

Ian Devaney: For Nation of Language, we're planning on putting out a seven inch either like, December or January. So we've been working on two songs, as well as songs for the second record.

Anjimile: At this point, in the year, I have a lot of songs written, some which I think might be good. And so I'm just stacking up demos at the moment, trying to make sure I have like the juiciest tunes available.

Jordana Nye: I'm still just making music and content, and it kind of tells me that I can pretty much do anything that I set my mind to, which is comforting, especially in dire times when I feel like I'm not doing anything at all, and I feel like I'm a loser. People are digging the new stuff so I'm super excited for that, and makes me want to do more with different genres and just play around with them.

Bartees Cox Jr.: I'm gonna really take my time. I put out two records this year. I don't feel like I gotta like, hustle. I just gonna just keep working try to make some money and hold it down.

Christian Lee Hutson: I'm honestly just writing a lot and I am recording a lot of stuff at home. Early on in quarantine, I was just like, "Alright, in order to tell the days apart, I'm gonna record a different cover song for fun every day." So I did that for a while until I got bored of that. And now I'm just demoing and recording new stuff. It's the only thing I really know how to do. And I'm grateful that there's a lot of time to do it. Something I noticed observing other friends' album cycles in the pre-COVID world is the amount of time that they had to actually write and follow up their debuts is actually pretty slim, which I feel like I have a lot of time to accomplish that.

Capturing Los Angeles' COVID-Closed Venues

Harry Chapin

Harry Chapin

Photo: Courtesy of artist

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Rick Korn & Jason Chapin's Revisit Harry Chapin harry-chapin-when-doubt-do-something-filmmakers-rick-korn-jason-chapin-revisit

'Harry Chapin: When In Doubt, Do Something' Filmmakers Rick Korn & Jason Chapin Revisit Singer/Activist's Legacy At A Vital Time

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The new documentary looks at the life of the late GRAMMY-nominated folk singer and how his message of hope and making a difference resonates so strongly today
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Oct 21, 2020 - 3:40 pm

In 1972, not long after signing to Elektra, a 29-year-old folk singer/songwriter named Harry Chapin released his debut album, Heads & Tales, spawning the hit single "Taxi." Later that year, he'd release his sophomore album, Sniper & Other Love Songs, and receive his first GRAMMY nomination, for Best New Artist at the 15th GRAMMY Awards.

Just two years later, in 1974, the Brooklynite released his fourth album, Verities & Balderdash, along with his most well-known song and only No. 1, the deeply moving "Cat's in the Cradle." The memorable track also brought his second GRAMMY nomination, for Best Male Pop Vocal Performance at the 17th GRAMMY Awards.

Almost as quickly as Chapin rose to global fame, he began using his platform to make a difference in the world. With nudging and support from his wife Sandy Chapin, he and radio DJ Bill Ayers founded WhyHunger in 1975 to address the root causes of food insecurity and poverty. The "Shooting Star" singer, who died at just 38 in car accident, would spend the rest of his time on earth hosting and playing benefit concerts, mentoring rising artists, advocating in D.C. and raising money and awareness to fight hunger.

Now, with the release of Harry Chapin: When In Doubt, Do Something on Oct. 16, World Food Day, viewers get a deep dive into the inspirational man behind the music, along with the message that one person really can move make a difference when they put their mind to it. We recently spoke to the documentary's director, Rick Korn, and co-producer/Harry Chapin's stepson, Jason Chapin, about the film, what the great folk artist's legacy means to them and much more.

Watch: History Of: The World-Famous Troubadour In West Hollywood

Harry Chapin, When In Doubt, Do Something comes out soon, on October 16. What messages do you hope viewers will get from watching it?

Korn: Well, there are two messages with Harry's story. The most important thing is about his activism, his music, his way to really inspire generations of music artists, of people like myself. I think the most important thing for people to get out of this is it's a break from the craziness of what's going on in the world around us, it's a 93-minute escape into Harry's world, which is just so entertaining and inspiring. I hope that people look at it from that perspective. I know people that have seen the film have walked away from it thoroughly entertained and thoroughly inspired. That's what we hope people get out of the film.

Chapin: I'll add that my father's been gone for a long time, but over his 10-year career, he accomplished a lot musically. His music continues to be listened to by younger generations, which is great, but the humanitarian side, starting WhyHunger in 1975 and Long Island Cares in 1980 and being involved in a lot of other important causes and organizations, is also big. It's amazing that those organizations have grown so much and continue to help, literally, hundreds of thousands of people each year. If you think about today, hunger and poverty is a much bigger issue now, but, fortunately, because of my father's work and many organizations fighting against it, there's a lot being done.

The takeaway, I'm hoping, for those that see the movie, is that it's one individual who was motivated to do something, who inspired many others to continue to support what he did, but they also are doing great things on their own. It's really inspirational to know that one person can make a difference.

Related: Darius Rucker To Receive Harry Chapin Humanitarian Award At Music Biz 2019

I feel like that answers this question a bit, but I still want to ask it this way. Why did you decide to make a documentary about Harry Chapin?

Korn: Harry was unique in a lot of different ways, and if this was a story about another music artist that focused on their vices and the destruction of their lives, we would not have been interested in making the film. What interests us about Harry is his prolific creativity and his ability to literally move people, to save people. What really blew our minds when we did our research on Harry was he was so incredibly effective in fighting for the underdog.

He could write a protest song and you can do a benefit concert, but Harry was more than that. He literally got his hands dirty doing the work, and figured out what the root causes of hunger and poverty are and attacked them in every way. He spent a good portion of the most vital 10 years of his life just trying to help people, and that is unique in the world, particularly in the world today. That's why we made the film. We made the film because I think the world needs a little bit of Harry today.

Chapin: One thing I'll add, maybe it's not known to a lot of people, but my father was a successful filmmaker before he became a successful musician. I think film helped him really understand stories better and made him a much better songwriter. It's also just amazing, so many years later, when Rick and S.A. Baron [who co-produced the film with Korn and Chapin] asked if we would be interested in a documentary, it was special to me because there had never been interest in a film about him. They saw a different subject matter that others didn't.

Also, it's just the right time, because there's so much going on that my father was passionate about and committed to, and, as Rick said, there's so much negativity out there, but this is the right film at the right time.

Why do you feel like it's so important to share this story and these messages now?

Korn: I don't want to say we rushed it because we didn't, but we really worked hard getting this film out now because of all the divisiveness in the world. Harry's story is unique from any other music artist because he really inspired a generation of music artists. You look at Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel, Bob Geldof and Ken Kragen, all these people that created Live Aid and "We Are the World"/U.S.A for Africa and Hands Across America. Harry inspired these people in that way, and his music, on top of that, was just so moving and so incredible.

I want to follow up on something that Jason said about him being a filmmaker. One of the things that surprised me when we did our research, was that he was a filmmaker, and not only that, but an Academy Award-nominated filmmaker and documentarian, but we learned that was the way Harry wrote songs. It's very similar to the way a director writes a film. His songs are these mini movies. His storytelling feels like you're the character, one of those two people in the taxi in the song, "Taxi." And you always feel like the parent in "Cat's in the Cradle." He and Sandy just had a way of making songs that you find yourself in, and that's the brilliant part of his songwriting.

Explore: It's The One: 45 Years Of Bruce Springsteen's 'Born To Run'

Do you have a favorite story or anecdote from any of the artists you talked to while making the film?

Chapin: I was at the Billy Joel interview and he told us a lot of things that I didn't know. I learned that he opened for my father and years later, my father opened for him, and they had a nice friendship, and supported each other. And Billy Joel started talking about how people would think that "Piano Man" was written by my father, and he really loved the way my father wrote songs, and he was describing how much he loved the song "Taxi" and how it gave him goosebumps. And then he was talking about my father as a humanitarian, and he called him a saint. I think that was probably my favorite experience with this whole project.

Korn: Yeah, the Billy Joel interview was certainly a great one because I didn't realize how close Billy and Harry were, just on a human level. The reason for that, I think, was the fact that Harry treated everyone like your kid brother. The fact that he would support Billy, which was so rare in the music business then, and even now, it just broke down whatever barrier or competition they normally would have with each other. That surprised me.

My favorite interview—there's so many, because after each interview, you love everybody that you interviewed because they loved Harry. You can't make a movie just with that one interview, but the two that stand out for me is DMC [a.k.a. Darryl McDaniels of Run-DMC], because he taught us something we didn't know about, how he did "Cat's in the Cradle" [on 2006's "Just Like Me" with Sarah McLachlan] and they were one of the first rap groups. The fact that Harry was considered cool in the early days of hip-hop music blew my mind. He's a great guy. He's done so much for WhyHunger over the years, and he's just a really genuine guy, so I really loved that interview.

I have to say that the most entertaining interview for me that maybe I've ever done was Sir Bob Geldof, which ended up being a two-and-a-half-hour interview when my average interview is about 45 minutes. I literally asked two questions in the entire interview. He just went on and on and on. He would come back and say something about Harry, but then he would go on.

They all loved Harry. Harry changed their lives, just as he did mine. Harry came to my high school in 1974. Everyone in the school, teachers, coaches, janitor, everyone came into the auditorium, and he came running in and played for two and a half hours and talked about hunger and poverty, and it was the greatest lecture you ever went to in your life. It was inspirational.

Read: From Aretha Franklin To Public Enemy, Here's How Artists Have Amplified Social Justice Movements Through Music

What does his legacy mean to you?

Chapin: When I think of his legacy, I think of all the people that my father looked up to, and one of them was Pete Seeger, and I think he saw that Pete was doing great things over many years. He was completely selfless and hugely impactful. As I look at my father's legacy, it's the fact that so many fans can tell stories about meeting him after a concert in the lobby, so many fans talk about how they shared his music with their kids, and now grandkids, and the fact that he started these organizations and that continued to grow and help more people each year.

I think the overall, in terms of his legacy—he even says in the film that he wanted to matter. That's another way of saying he didn't want to be forgotten. The fact that people are still talking about him, people are still inspired by him is just amazing.

Korn: I'd like to tag on to that. When I think of Harry's legacy, obviously he was a great songwriter. Music is important, and his music is important, but when I think of Harry's legacy, I think of what is going on right now with this pandemic and the fact that what he and [N.Y.C. radio DJ] Bill Ayres and Sandy Chapin created in 1975—and Sandy and Bill are still at it—is still saving lives today. That is a legacy that is larger than life.

Can you talk a little more about WhyHunger's work and why specifically the issue of access to healthy food was so important to Harry?

Chapin: I think what's important to understand is that it was my mother who really nudged my father and said, "You should get involved in more things, not just do music." My father was interviewed by Bill Ayres on his radio show, "On This Rock," and they had instant chemistry. They started talking, with my mother at some of their meetings, they decided that they wanted to focus on something that would really have a big impact on a lot of people. They did a lot of research. They talked to a lot of experts, and they realized hunger and poverty was at the root of all of our issues, and if they tackled that, that could solve so many of our problems. They continued to educate themselves and talk to experts. They spent a lot of time down in D.C. talking to legislators, and they were really committed to being knowledgeable and informed and getting other people to understand.

I think what my father knew is that if you tackle hunger and poverty, you're also tackling social injustice, you're tackling women's issues, you're tackling racial issues, you're tackling so many root issues, and so I think it was very insightful for them to talk about that. It wasn't just about giving people food.

My father was very into being self-sufficient, so he wanted people to have access to education and work to become self-sufficient. At the same time, I think he wanted people to understand that people don't choose to be hungry or poor, that there were certain policies that were put upon them that created a lot of the problems, a lot of the barriers that they faced.           

I think it's also important to say that the fact that we still have a problem doesn't mean that we're losing the war. It just means that there are more people that need to get involved in order to solve the problem. WhyHunger's job is not to solve the problem, it's to help other people it, so it's a very grassroots focus. They do a lot of work with groups around the country and internationally to help support what they're doing and connect them to other organizations so that they can realize their potential and do even more great work.



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Join us tonight for a very special Docu-Concert to inspire us all to DO SOMETHING AND VOTE! Harry Chapin is the original reason I love folk music. I listened to “Cats in the Cradle” on repeat as a kid. Very surreal to be a part of this event with him and more of my heroes @springsteen @blackpumas @kebmomusic @alabama_shakes @theheadandtheheart and @derekandsusan ! We’ll be raising money today for many nonprofits including @return2heart ! Tune in tonight (link in bio!)!

A post shared by RAYE ZARAGOZA (@rayezaragoza) on Oct 20, 2020 at 11:27am PDT

What do you each see as the connection between art and service?

Korn: Art is service in a certain way. We have a livestream docu-concert coming out called Do Something and there's an artist participating by the name of Raye Zaragoza. Raye is a young artist/activist. She's Native American and she's all about the environment and has devoted her life to it. She doesn't just write the songs. An artist/activist is someone, in my opinion, who doesn't just write and perform great music, but as Harry taught us, they get their hands dirty.

If you care about the pipeline going through South Dakota and the reservations, you're going to go to protests. You're in Washington. You're writing motivational songs. It doesn't mean you have to write motivational songs, because Harry didn't have many protest songs, but he understood his nature and human feelings and empathy, and he had tremendous empathy. I think that's the connection, that's what makes an artist an artist/activist.

Chapin: Yeah, and my father and my uncle Tom [Chapin] did a lot of benefit concerts, and I know they had a lot of conversations. My father was always fascinated with Pete Seeger's philosophy about being an activist, getting involved, and he said it was because he got to work with great people, people who were very passionate and committed. My father and Pete Seeger and others, I think they were getting more out of the experience than they were giving to the experience, and it made their lives richer.

My father, he spent a lot of time in high schools, middle schools and colleges talking to young people. He always felt that young people were the future, and he wanted to know what they cared about, what they were interested in doing, and to encourage them to get involved. It didn't have to be hunger and poverty, but just get involved, to commit to something. It was all about letting them know that they could make a difference.

Lastly, a lot of musicians, I think, tend to be a little bit self-centered, but my father was very generous when it came to other musicians. He used to do these songwriting workshops where he would spend time with a group of up-and-coming musicians, those who wanted to learn more about songwriting and composing music. My father had these regular meetings with different musicians on Long Island. I think the musicians who attended really enjoyed the experience of learning from my father, but my father also enjoyed the experience of hearing what they were thinking and collaborating with them. I think that was also very rewarding for him.

Read: From Chicago To Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Here's Who Was Honored At The 2020 GRAMMY Salute To Music Legends

It becomes so much more than the artist saying, "I care about this, you should too." When it's like, "I really care about this. What do you care about?" it feels different.

Chapin: Yeah. I think it's a beautiful community when musicians collaborate and they do things together. I think that really attracted my father's interest, he just loved other communities, whether it was other artists or not. He was really into a lot of intellectual stuff. He did a lot of reading. He was intellectually very curious, and I think he also liked learning from other people and finding out what motivated them and what inspired them. I think that gave him a lot of, I don't know, excitement just to be around people who were very eager and action-oriented.

Do you think art can change the world?

Korn: You know, I think that music is, by its very nature, a healer. I'm not saying it can cure cancer, but it can help cure cancer. Maybe that's an overstatement. I just mean it that it's got that power. People get moved by music. I was working with a gentleman by the name of Carl Perkins, who wrote the song, "Blue Suede Shoes." We were flying over to London [in 1997] to do a benefit concert with Paul McCartney and Eric Clapton and a bunch of people, and for the island of Montserrat after a volcano eruption. I asked, "Why is it that it seems like music artists are always the first ones to jump in and do benefit concerts?"

Carl's response was, "Did you ever meet a great songwriter that didn't grow up poor or have some sort of difficulties in their life? They just tend to be more empathetic towards the common man. They write about it." From that standpoint, I don't know if they can save the world, but I think Harry in a lot of ways has saved lives, and I guess that's your answer. [Chuckles.]

Chapin: Yeah, that was well said, Rick. I can't think of anything else that brings people together more than music. It's a universal thing, and once you bring people together and there's somebody who plants a seed as to something they should all work toward or work on together, then anything is possible. We know, going back decades, whether it was Bob Dylan, Pete Seeger, the Beatles and their Concert for Bangladesh, or Live Aid or "We Are the World," we know when groups come together, anything is possible. They may not be solving all the world's problems, but they can certainly make a huge difference.

It's so true. I have to share, my dad grew up in Brooklyn Heights and went to Grace Church, so he knew all the Chapins. The first concert I ever went to was Tom Chapin—my dad took us to his shows all the time when we were kids.

Chapin: I'm so glad you shared that because that's where everything happened, at Grace Church. That's where my uncles Tom and Steve were in the choir. My father was a little older, so he wasn't as involved, but that's also where they met Robert Lamm from Chicago. John Wallace was also a member of the choir, and he ended up being a key part of my father's band. That was such a magical time back then, because there were so many musicians and they would all go into Manhattan and play at the different clubs and community events. Everybody wanted to be a musician or go listen to musicians. Brooklyn now is still—that's the hot borough in New York City. That's where the musicians want to live, and that's where they want to perform. It's a fabulous tradition.

Great to hear that you've been to some of my uncle Tom's shows. I don't know if you're aware, but my father had two GRAMMY nominations, but Tom won three GRAMMYs, so that's fun family history.

Beat By Beat: How "Song Exploder" Unlocks The Intimacy Of Music And Creativity

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