ARTBAT at Cercle in Rio de Janeiro

ARTBAT at Cercle in Rio de Janeiro

Photo: Raul Aragao

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ARTBAT On New CamelPhat Collab, DJing In The Clouds & Loving L.A.

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"For a Feeling" is the Ukrainian duo's latest dance release to top Beatport's charts and their seventh track in a year to be selected by Pete Tong as his weekly Essential New Tune
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
May 8, 2020 - 2:02 pm

Back in 2015, Artur Kryvenko and Vitalii "Batish" Limarenko, both successful DJs in their native Kyiv, met at a club and joined forces to create ARTBAT. It wasn't long before their deeply emotive brand of melodic techno made them one of the biggest names ever out of Ukraine and had them playing shows at major clubs like London's Printworks, Berlin's Watergate and Blue Marlin and other Ibiza hotspots, along with big events like Amsterdam's Awakenings and Brooklyn's City Fox.

In the global underground electronic scene, 2019 was undeniably the year of ARTBAT: they made their BBC Radio 1 Essential Mix debut, DJed for Cercle atop Rio de Janeiro's Sugarloaf Mountain and their fire releases earned several No. 1 spots on Beatport's charts, eventually closing the year as the top-selling artist on the platform.

Their latest release, "For a Feeling," is a collab with GRAMMY-nominated duo CamelPhat and vocalist Rhodes and has been No. 1 on Beatport's Top 100 for the past two weeks. Calling in from Kyiv, the dynamic duo caught up with the Recording Academy to talk about the new track, what it was like playing on that magic mountain top, and the support they've gotten from Pete Tong and other big DJs. We also dove deep into their lifelong love of electronic music, the rich techno scene in Ukraine and how much they love love Los Angeles.

You guys just released "For a Feeling" with CamelPhat, which is already No. 1 on Beatport. I'd love to learn more about how the collaboration and the track itself were born.

Well, we really like CamelPhat's production but it's a little bit of a different style from our work. We had a lot of good chats and a good connection with them. We played together and decided to try to combine our styles and do something new.

The CamelPhat guys gave us a vocal and some ideas and we really liked the vocal [sung by Rhodes], especially the meaning of lyrics. The meaning felt special for us because we like to feel the music and everything around us, we like to feel that it's deeper. We decided we needed to make something really beautiful with it, for both the dancer and the listener.

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So the starting point of the track was built from the vocal?

Yes. The vocal and some of the rhythm. We worked on it two or three months together. Then we tried it out and people started to love it. Other DJs asked us about the track and we shared it and got some very good feedback from big producers—like Tale Of Us liked the track very much.

So it already get some love on the dancefloor before quarantine?

Yes, of course. We made it last summer and we played it the whole autumn and winter and a little bit of March. It's actually one of our favorite finishing tracks. And as I said, Tale Of Us, Adriatique and other DJs played it for about half year. That's why people already knew this track and were waiting for its release.

Pete Tong recently named the track his Essential New Tune, which I think makes your seventh one. What does that recognition from Pete, as well as the other DJ support and everyone downloading it on Beatport, mean to you two?

We're very thankful to Pete for having his eye on us. He's said wonderful things about us and has liked some of our songs and presented them as essential tunes; for us it's a big honor. 20 years ago, when we were young, Pete Tong was one of our big inspirations. So, the support from him brings us a lot of happiness.

And with Beatport, when we see that people are downloading and buying our tracks, we understand that we are making something which helps people enjoy life, something for their feelings. And when we see this support of our tracks, we feel like we're on the right path. It also helps us find more inspiration in the studio to deliver the emotion, that energy on all that sides that music can bring in.

As we are all feeling pretty isolated right now, it must be really powerful to know that your music is still touching people even when you're not able to share it in person.

We're receiving a lot of videos, Insta stories and posts with our music as people are listening and playing it at home. It's our little inspiration for our current work in studio. It's not an easy time now because we cannot share our music live and we cannot meet people. Everything is on pause now, but some time it will start again and continue as it was when everything was good.

Speaking of Pete Tong, you released your debut BBC Radio 1 Essential Mix last year—what did it feel like for you being a part of the iconic series? Were you nervous going into it?

It's a big honor for us of course. We are music diggers and lovers and for two decades, maybe more, we've been listening to Essential Mixes from all the big DJs and electronic bands, like Daft Punk. To be part of it, and on the list of artists who've made Essential Mixes, is a big privilege for us. We are very thankful to Pete Tong for giving us that opportunity. From producing tracks, the other side of our lives is DJing, and the Essential Mix is a big step in DJ life.

I cannot say that we were nervous but we were very picky while picking out the tracks, to find the balance between old and new tracks, and we were very excited for it. Essential Mixes are one of the main, important mixes in the DJ catalog. It's a big recognition.

Also in 2019, you played an epic Cercle set atop Sugarloaf Mountain in Rio de Janeiro. What did that experience feel like for you two, and what was the energy was like playing in that beautiful setting?

It was one of the best experiences in our lives. We had wanted to be a part of Cercle, but we understood the guys pick the artists out themselves. And then they invited us to take part in a Cercle event. We wanted to do it in Kyiv because we live there and love our country very much and show people our country. But the email proposed the venue [Bondinho Pão de Açúcar, or Sugarloaf Mountain Cablecar] and when we saw the mountain we agreed.

When we arrived in Rio de Janeiro, there was a very big storm, so we were very lucky that we had one more day there. The Cercle guys moved the event to the next day, which was very good weather. You can imagine our feelings when we arrived to Rio de Janeiro, it's like a 15-hour flight, and when we landed, we learned that we couldn't have the event today because the weather is rainy and stormy. It could've been canceled because of that, but the guys had time and we could stay for one day more.

It was actually so hot the next day, we were afraid it would be hard to play because we were coming from winter to a very hot summer. But we were lucky because there was a very good breeze on the mountain. When we started to play, we were even under the clouds sometimes, playing for people who knew us and like our music. They were smiling and it was a very close atmosphere because there was just 250, 200 people. It's not a big venue and everyone was very friendly and happy.

And when we were playing, I looked back at the mountain and I thought "thank you my life, thank you energy, that you bring me, with music, to this mountain." It was the best DJing experience. With the beautiful nature, the quality sound system and happy people, I never had an experience quite like that. We will remember it for all our lives.

And actually, when we watched the video [watch for yourself above] after, we couldn't believe that it was us playing there. It's so beautiful. We knew how beautiful it was, but from the other angle of the drone, and the blue sky, blue water and green nature, it's like the best natural combination of colors, music and clouds. And the guys from Cercle also said that it was their favorite location. I think it's one of the best experiences of our DJ career and we know it's very hard to repeat this.

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What do you think are the key elements of a great dance track?

You know, dancing comes from inside you. For some people, one thing gets them moving, and it's something different for others. But, I think for a great dance track, it should be balanced between groove and melody. Sometimes melodies get in the way of dancing because you're starting to really listen to it instead. It's hard to say because every time is different, but I think the key is to find the good balance between uplifting and building. And the melody can't be very long, so you can catch the flow. Of course, rhythm is the dance mover. So good rhythm is most important for the dance track. We dance with the rhythm.

When you guys are playing a club set, what are you looking for in the crowd? For example, what do you do if people aren't dancing?

We start to find the people who you can tell came to dance. Some people maybe just came to party or to listen to music but not to dance, so we're searching for the people we see have a lot of energy, who want to dance and seem happy. So we're trying to first make the flow that keeps them in good mood. We're looking for happy faces and trying to keep them happy and smiling.

But our music is not always happy, sometimes it's kind of deep. So then we're searching for people who are really engaging with it, getting deep in to the music. If they feel it and catch the flow, you can watch them, and if everything is good you see if them dancing and you understand you're doing good.

When did you first start listening to electronic music? What artists made you want to start DJing and producing yourself?

We both started to listen to electronic music very young. I started when I was eight or nine. First it was ['90s] European dance music, like Dr. Alban, maybe you remember him. So it was like '93, '94. For my whole life, I've lived in headphones. I'd spend all my money on new music, buying cassettes, then discs.

And in 2003, I started DJing and I gained a deeper interest in electronic music. Then, I found electronic German records like DJ Hell and then Tiefschwarz. I also listened to DJs like Paul van Dyk and Armin Van Buuren to Carl Cox, Adam Beyer, and also Stephan Bodzin was the one of my favorites. So all the famous DJ that you know, I listened to them. Some of them inspired me in some styles and others in different ways. I really liked how Stephan Bodzin made his own style with Oliver Huntemann, as well as Carl Cox's techno, for its power.

And of course, Batish and I listen to a lot of electronic bands like Orbital, Chemical Brothers, Prodigy, Depeche Mode. Also, I like Pink Floyd a lot.

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How did you discover all this music? Was there a good record store where you grew up—how were you listening to all this cool music from such a young age?

No, it started from cassettes, like I told you, when I had some lunch money from my parents for school, I tried to save it and every week I'd buy two or three new cassettes. And then in 2002, we had internet and I searched different forums for music and where to download it. It wasn't good, but there were the peer-to-peer sites and you could search for the track and the artist. And later, when I went to work, it was a very small salary, but I had good internet there and I could download a lot of music for my DJ sets in clubs.

How old were you when you started DJing?

I started in 2007, so I was 24, 25.

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What was the house and techno scene like in Kyiv then and now? Were there a lot of other DJs then or was it a close-knit community?

Ukraine is a very musical country, people like music here very much. Of course, we have Soviet experiences here and it was not easy for the culture here because of economic hardships. The scene's growth depends on the economy, so when it started to be better from 2014, the scene started to grow also. We have a very good techno community here. In Ukraine, we have a lot of fans of house music and melodic techno, the music that we make. We have very quality clubs that we can compare with the best clubs in the world for sure.

We don't have a lot of festivals. There's a few, but they're not very big. Festival culture only started here, maybe five years ago, in Kyiv. But for music, people are very educated about it. And everyone is waiting for this quarantine to be finished, waiting to get out of our homes especially in summer. We should have had few good festivals here this summer but they're canceled.

Read: How Will Coronavirus Shift Electronic Music? Maceo Plex, Paul Van Dyk, Luttrell, Mikey Lion & DJ Manager Max Leader Weigh In

Have you guys been spending more time in the studio during quarantine? Have you been making or even just listening to more music?

Yes. Our last gig was March 8th or 9th. After that, we arrived to Kyiv and put ourselves in self-quarantine for two weeks at home. We actually had some symptoms of coronavirus, so we stayed at home, then got tested after to make sure we were not spreading the virus. It was negative then, so we started to go to the studio. Now we're in the studio three, four, maybe five days a week, trying to find some ideas to make tracks. We actually already made some tracks. But you can understand it's not easy time in terms of inspiration.

Somedays you have inspiration, some days you don't because you're tired from this situation and the restrictions. Sometimes it's hard for the mind, especially when our gigs are canceled. It's not an easy time now. But, like I told you, we're getting good feedback from people, people playing our music and sharing emotions with us. And we're releasing music! Now we've released "For a Feeling" and we also have for one cool track to release in summer, I think.

And we're preparing music for our new sets when the quarantine is finished. We will be ready to show people the new stuff and we always love to play music and enjoy life together with people.

Why did you decide to form ARTBAT together, and what does the project mean to you, as a duo, with the music you're putting out?

Before we met, I think we had like six or seven years of DJing. And it was the period when we played a lot, maybe in all of the clubs [in Kyiv]. I needed some new stuff. I started to search for a person with whom it would be fun to create music with. And faster, more quality, because when you're alone it takes a lot of time deciding if it's good or not and just searching for ideas.

We met in the club, our friends connected us, and we decided to spend one time in the studio together and try it out. In our first studio session, from the first hour, we learned that we can make good music that we both like, that we can make it fast and we like the process together. We can spend all day in the studio and joke, have fun and talk, which doesn't happen when you're working alone. Together, we're sharing a good time and playing music and finding good ideas.

So, we made one track, then two tracks and started to realize we could continue with this. We started to do DJ sets as a project and we searched for the names, for two months actually. Then the idea came from our names; ARTBAT is Artur and Batish.

Now it's like our life, for sure it's the best that can be in in our social, creative life. Our project is everything for us. We live like one family and we're very close. Our passion and our project is almost the same. And we're very picky about the tracks, about everything, because we're very connected to our creative name ARTBAT. It's kind of a dream that came through and now it's all of our life.

Obviously, you guys had a huge 2019. Is there a dream, something you hope will happen, for ARTBAT next year?

Yes, yes, we have our next step, we can't really say now because it's still a baby, we're making it, filling it with ideas. I can't tell you now but, hopefully in few months. But one dream for us is, of course, to play big festivals to share music with big crowds because we like this energy and the feedback from people. Also, we like to represent Ukraine in the music world. We like that people know we are from Ukraine, and a lot of people know us here, but doing gigs around the world is a big pleasure for us, to be people who bring our country in to the music scene

GRAMMYs

ARTBAT in Los Angeles | Photo: Courtesy of artist

Where do you live now? [Artur asked interviewer.]

I live in Los Angeles.

It's our favorite city in the world. We have been almost all around the world, but L.A. is one city where we really want to try to live someday. One of the first feelings when we came to L.A., you feel this freedom, like freedom for your mind. The atmosphere of freedom is everywhere. I think it's the best city in the world.

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Maceo Plex

Maceo Plex

Photo: Ruben Schmitz

News

How Will Coronavirus Shift Electronic Music? Maceo Plex, Paul Van Dyk, Luttrell, Mikey Lion & DJ Manager Max Leader Weigh In

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"Now, the silver lining could be that people are going to make some amazing music coming out of this. When you don't have the pressure of making a hit track for the club, you usually make something more interesting," Maceo Plex predicts
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Mar 26, 2020 - 12:06 pm

Amidst all the uncertainty of the coronavirus pandemic, one certainty is this will affect everyone in some way, and it already has had huge effects on all who work in the music industry. As major music events like Coachella, Ultra, SXSW, Glastonbury, Time Warp and many more continue to be canceled or postponed, as well as upcoming tour and club dates, many artists, managers, promoters and the crew members are facing gravely reduced or non-existent income over the next few months and possibly beyond.

We reached out to four globe-trotting DJ/producers—Barcelona's Maceo Plex (Ellum Audio), Los Angeles' Mikey Lion (Desert Hearts), San Francisco's Luttrell (Anjunadeep) and Berlin's Paul Van Dyk (Vandit Records)—and London/New York-based DJ manager Max Leader to learn how the pandemic is directly affecting them and those they work with. While this crisis is radically shifting their plans this year, they all see silver linings, especially in the sense of unity felt in the dance music community and, increasingly, humanity as a whole.

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The Show Might Go On

Longtime (he's been in it since '90s raves) underground legend Maceo Plex, a.k.a. Miami-born Eric Estornel, was set to headline Ultra, Movement (which was recently rescheduled from May to September) and Time Warp plus a bunch of major club dates over the next few months. He underscores that this is going to be hard for everyone as they all scrambles to readjust, reschedule and recover losses, and thus will likely reshape the electronic music industry as a whole.

"It's not just DJs it's musicians, bands, anybody that their job is to congregate people together to hear music is affected. That can be promoters, DJs, they all have the same story, club owners, everybody's pretty much screwed. It does give you a sense of unity because everyone's in it together," the Ellum Audio label head told us over the phone late last week.

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Leader has been in the industry for years, formerly as a promoter and currently, for the past 18 years, as a manager of a roster of major DJs. He also paints the picture of a challenging year for everyone planning and playing events in 2020, highlighting just how many dates and dollars have already been lost.

"The bread and butter for my artists and for me is in live shows. My clients tend to do anywhere from six to 12 shows a month and we work three to six months in advance. So, what happened two weeks ago, was the cancellation or attempt to reschedule the gigs, between one to three months from that moment to three months ahead," he explained during a phone chat last week. "And the promoters that were booking for three to six months from that point, were not booking anymore because they didn't know what was going on, which means that you're already at nine months of no shows. So, if you start looking at nine to 12 months, it means in the space of two weeks, you're suddenly 12 months away from receiving any income from touring."

Canceling even just a few shows could be financially crushing to promoters, as well as the clubs and everyone else who works for them. "Also, these promoters, some of them are weekly promoters, some of them are monthly promoters, and they try to honor deals. Now you lose one show for artists of the caliber that I work with, you could lose $25,000, $30,000. If you lose that amount two or three times in a row, you could be out of business," Leader noted.

For Estornel, van Dyk and Leader, their long, successful careers have put them in a place where they are currently okay financially. Of course, dipping too far into savings is stressful, as is not having an income stream to share with your team. "I'm already going into savings, because of having to cancel the ongoing business," Leader added. "I would say that my business is 90 percent gigs, so I have effectively lost 90 percent of my business right now. And it happened immediately. It happened overnight."

Estronel was set to debut his new M^3 live show in Los Angeles on March 14, which, as he put it, ended up being "the first weekend that no events were happening pretty much anywhere." Two days before the event, California banned all gatherings over 250 people (now restrictions are even tighter) in the interest of public health and safety.

"I was waiting, too. I'm not a promoter, but I was promoting [M^3] pretty much in conjunction with Factory 93, so I already had the production and all the equipment and everything paid for. So that's why it's super important to reschedule. But, at the same time, I think Factory 93 was giving money back to whoever wanted it. I don't know how they were doing it, but I had to pay for a lot of that production out of my pocket. It was already there and I was like, 'Well, f**k it. Let's do this stream.' That wasn't anywhere near what we were going to have planned for the holograms and all kinds of crazy stuff, but at least we used some of the cool lights. So those can kind of come together quickly."

Both van Dyk and Luttrell had major tours slated this year in support of their 2020 albums—the German trance legend's 10th album, Guiding Light, drops on April 17, while the S.F. deep house hero's sophomore LP, Lucky Ones, came out on March 13. Of course, with global spring dates, both tours have been put on hold.

Luttrell was also set to make his Coachella stage debut in April, which will now have to wait until October. "It's affected it quite a bit thus far. I have an album tour that was set to begin April 2. Now everything is being pushed back a few months to end of July through August. Feeling good about getting most of the shows rescheduled at least!" he shared over email.

For Mikey Lion and his Desert Hearts crew (the label/party maestro squad he leads and co-founded in 2012 in San Diego), their flagship "72+ hours of nonstop house and techno" festival was slated for April 23-26, but luckily they were able to find new dates pretty quickly. Some of the other festivals the crew were booked to play have also been affected, including at Lighting in a Bottle, whose 2020 edition was canceled, and Vujaday in Barbados, which was postponed to November. Desert Hearts is also beloved for the fun club nights and block parties they throw in a bunch of different cities. Those will have to wait this year as well.

"We postponed the festival to Oct. 22 to 26, 2020. Luckily our fest is in a really good place right now to come back because we were able to find a make-up date quickly and we didn't have too many deposits out there right now because we were monitoring the whole situation," Lion explained over the phone. He noted how this is not necessarily the case for other independent festivals and events, and that could have far-reaching negative effects in the industry. "I think that that's probably the biggest problem that all the other festivals are going through right now, is that if you're an independent festival that's not backed by Live Nation, AEG or some other big financial backer, you're using your ticket money to secure the acts that you're having, all the equipment, everything. You have so many deposits out there. Then we have this totally unforeseen disease that's coming through and everyone's having to cancel, and then all of a sudden all the fans are looking for refunds and those festivals don't have the money to be paying their fans back because it's all tied up, it creates this really hectic ecosystem where the fans think that they're getting ripped off and festivals can't do anything about it."

For all the events and festivals that are able to successfully reschedule and bring the majority of their lineup with them, that is a big relief, but of course a year's worth of events can't all happen in the fall and winter, especially outdoor events in colder climates. And who will get to play in the more limited event pool? Probably the bigger DJs, for the most part, with less slots for local opening acts—and less money for everyone overall. It is hard to predict exactly how hard the crisis will strike the global economy, but it has already done damage, with many hourly or gig workers currently out of work. For most people, the less income they make, the less money they will spend on going out, festival tickets and travel, so it becomes harder to get people to clubs and festivals.

"The festivals are already rescheduling and they're not going to be able to pay the same," Estornel noted. "So DJs fees are definitely going to go down in general. Which is kind of a trickle-down effect; the bigger DJs will have to charge less and some of the smaller DJs' fees will then obviously go down as well. Then resident DJs that live in that city might not even play at all. Or if they do, for very cheap, because the promoters are not going to be able to charge the same entrance at the same ticket price or entrance at their clubs or whatever because people are not going to have any money,

"Rescheduling events, in my case, because of the fact that I'm in a position to headline, I get to reschedule first before others. I feel bad for all the other people that are, to promoters, maybe second or third tier artists that aren't getting rescheduled right away… I'm in a position where I can't complain because I can reschedule. But then again, I can't because I'm booked. I was booked up for the rest of the year."

Estornel also underscores that festivals moving towards later dates is going to cut into the bottom line of clubs, as everyone is now competing for a limited window of dates and likely a smaller pool of attendees with any money to spend on nights out. "A lot of these festivals are moving to those [later] months and they're going to take up a lot of the weekends that clubs function really well in those parts. So economically, it looks pretty crazy," he explained.

Leader echoed both of these points, that there are a limited number of dates for events and DJs to fill for the rest of the year and smaller pool of money for everyone. He is also cautious about predicting that events will be back up and running before at least a few months off. He notes recent conversations he's had with promoters, those who are looking ahead to book fall/winter dates—no one can pay deposits right now. Everyone is pretty much just trying to stay afloat at this point.

"The conversation that I do have with bigger promoters is, 'Okay, we're looking at the last two weekends in October, the first two in November, the New Year's Eve, we're looking to fill these holes. This is who I want from your roster on that. However, obviously we can't contract this right now. We obviously can't pay any deposits for it right now," Leader said.

Livestream Nation

van Dyk explains how not being able to travel to his sold-out Moscow show on March 13 led him to play via livestream to the packed venue in Russia from an empty club in Berlin. From that experience, he decided to launch a weekly livestream series from the club, which he's calling PC Music Night. He and fellow German DJ/producer Chris Bekker have shared two livestreams so far, much to the delight of trance and progressive house fans around the world.

"I was supposed to play in Moscow last weekend and because they have restrictions of people from Germany flying into Russia because of the Coronavirus and you have to go into quarantine," van Dyk explained. "What do people do when their shows are canceled and something cannot happen? Well we use the latest technology. We came up with the idea of me going into an empty club here in Berlin, have everything set up and then stream my performance from Berlin live to Moscow. It obviously is not the same as me being there because, it's difficult to interact. I had a little monitor so I was able to see what's going on in the venue in Moscow, but it was one way to sort of cope with the grim times and the possibilities that there are right now. and we came up with an idea from that streaming experience."

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Since both the epic Paul van Dyk and Maceo Plex sets aired on March 13 and 14, respectively, many DJs and artists have understandably jumped on the livestream wagon, craving a way to continue to share their music with the world and engage with their fans. It's safe to say that music livestream offerings are a bit oversaturated at the moment, but it has been fun to see the different ways artists and their fanbases have been engaging with them. For Estornel, he's aiming to think outside of the box when it comes to interacting with his fans during quarantine times:

"Everything's flooded with DJs doing streams. So now I'm thinking of new ideas… something more interesting. Somewhere between nerdy, like a studio talk but musical where you could dance to it. Hopefully we'll do something for these months, until things get back to normal."

Since we spoke last week, Lion and the Desert Hearts squad have started a new daily livestream series that's very on-brand with their colorful, playful vibes. Stepping out of the box a bit, the eclectic offerings include Q&A on Mondays with Lion, cooking lessons with his brother and labelmate Porky on Tuesday, yoga on Wednesdays and DJ sets from the squad on Sundays.

It's About Time For Unity!

While not being able to interact with others "irl" is difficult for all of us, connecting online, especially over music, can be especially powerful during these times of isolation. van Dyk witnessed this during his first PC Music Night livestream, where he encouraged fans to send track requests and special shout-outs in the comments.

"Chris Bekker and myself played for five hours for free for everyone who wanted to join, just simply to put a smile on people's faces, for people to connect. There was so much interaction going on from people from the U.S. talking to people from Italy, from Italy talking to people in South America. It's like they were all interconnecting. There was a sense of community, a sense of being there for each other. That is the essence of what we are trying to do with this DJ set."

The Berlin legend underscored the importance of staying in touch with others while we are apart, as during times of global distress, we all need comfort and support. "It's those little things to still be there for each other. I don't really like the term social distancing because what we have to do is stay physically apart from each other. But if anything, we should be socially closer and support each other. I think this is what we can do, and this is what we should do in crazy times like this."

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Seeing as the coronavirus crisis really does affect everyone, van Dyk sees this as an opportunity to put aside our differences and practice real empathy and growth. "In these times right now, I think we can all interconnect. At the end, of the day it doesn't really matter if you're a Trump supporter or if you support Sanders. At the end of the day, it's about the species, us as humans. Everyone is affected by it. We have to be there for each other. And that's about actually putting the human first, putting the real us first and therefore being there for each other," he added.

Lion pointed to the surprising and rather atypical unity we're seeing here in the States between Democrats and Republicans as they try to address the crisis is something to be celebrated. It could also have policy implications that change our lives for the better going forward.

"I think that things like universal healthcare and ideas like universal basic income are at the forefront right now of things we're realizing would be a massive help. It's crazy to see Republicans even embracing those things right now because of the situation that we're in. I don't think they would ever come to grips with and accept it unless they're seeing it affect them," Lion stated. "Hopefully we start getting some relief for people that are really struggling right now."

"I think that people are going to come out of this much more understanding of other people's situations and we are all in this together," he added. "I think that we're going to start seeing a lot more compassion from people in the world."

Luttrell echoed their messages, in sharing what gives him the most hope right now: "I feel like a big crisis like this—especially one that affects the world all at once—gives us an opportunity to come together and become closer as humans on this planet."

In the midst of trying to reschedule, reorganize and roll with the waves of the world, everyone we spoke to has already felt unity across the electronic music scene and the larger music and events industry. As Lion noted, many artists have been understanding about returning deposits for canceled events, given the circumstances, even though money will not really be coming in for a bit. At the end of the day, everyone in entertainment is more or less in the same boat right now.

"For the most part, I think that agencies and the artists are being really cool with getting back to the deposits in a lot of circumstances because I think everyone gets it, that we're all in this together," Lion said. "People are definitely working together on it. At the same time, that's money coming out from the artists and all of our foreseeable calendar just got completely wiped out, basically. I don't have any income coming, none of the other Desert Heart guys do, and we don't know how long this is going to last.

"It's a really harrowing experience, and it's not just the artists that are going through it, it's the managers, the agents, all the photographers and videographers, security, bartenders, all the logistics people to build teams. The list goes on and on and that's just the music industry. You know, the entire entertainment industry is getting absolutely battered right now. Think about Las Vegas, it's a city of almost 700,000 people and their entire ecosystem is based on entertainment. That entire city's pretty much out of work right now, I'd imagine."

Resources For Music Creators & Professionals Affected By COVID-19: West Region

For van Dyk, it is important to him to be able to personally esure his regular team is financially stable during this time. "It requires us being socially aware of our surroundings, of the people who need help and then actually do something. I'm committed to do this in this way, and therefore I don't think my crew needs to be too worried about it."



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Here's a fantastic new video that we've made for you, I hope you enjoy it.⁣ ⁣ When I wrote this song and named this album, I never expected it would be released during a time like this. However, instead of dwelling on the obvious and unfortunate irony of it all, I'm trying to make a conscious decision to continue reminding myself just how fortunate I am.⁣ ⁣ I make music. I’m not putting myself in danger every day like the medical professionals and everyone still out there working to keep our society running - like the head of the CDC, or the people keeping grocery stores stocked and functional - but I do hope that what I have to offer can help bring joy to people feeling stressed, overwhelmed, scared or hopeless right now.⁣ ⁣ If you’re stuck inside like the rest of us, put this music video on and dance around in your apartment, or lay in your bed holding your phone watching it, whatever you feel like. If you have one, get your dog all riled up. Give them lots of belly rubs and laugh at them zooming around the house to the music. Imagine how happy dogs are right now? Their favorite people are home all day. They’ll never disappear for hours on end (which to them probably seems like days). Dogs are possibly the most stoked they’ve ever been in history. Sadly, I don’t have a dog cause my landlord doesn’t allow them, but thinking of all the dogs out there living their best life with their favorite humans that are stuck at home right now makes me really happy.

A post shared by Luttrell (@ericluttrell) on

To Release Or Not To Release?

As van Dyk put it, music is a necessity in most people's lives, especially those who make it. Music plays an important part in all of our daily lives, and right now feels like a time where many of us are turning to music to escape or to dive into our feelings. "I'm a musician. To me, music is an essential of part of my life. When I'm sad I'm listening to music. When I'm happy, I'm listening to music. When I'm somewhat in between, I'm still listening to music. It's my passion. Therefore, music is something that's essential, from my perspective, in everyone's life," the German artist said.

"Right now, everyone has endless time on their hands," Lion added. "People are digging, people are paying attention, everyone's at their computer. It is a good time to get stuff into people's hands and really try to affect people in a positive way. Music's absolutely one of the best ways to do it."

"To me, music is an essential of part of my life. When I'm sad I'm listening to music. When I'm happy, I'm listening to music. When I'm somewhat in between, I'm still listening to music. It's my passion." – Paul van Dyk

Perhaps it's a great time to put out an uplifting track or music video, but what about releasing an album or club cuts? While many in the industry seem to be encouraging fans to support their favorite artists with online album and merch sales, other entities, like Amazon and even some artists themselves, have decided now is not necessary a good time to release projects. If you can't tour in support of the release, will the financial investment in the project be worth it?

For electronic artists specifically, who support and promote each others' new, often then-unreleased, records by playing them at their DJ sets around the world, the hype and release cycle just had a big wrench thrown through it. Additionally, if most of the DJs of the world are hunkering down in their home studios right now, which tracks and albums will cut through the noise when everything is dropped in a few months?

Leader's comments speak to this, and the "hustle," as he put it, that will ensue to get the gigs and have your music heard this year.

"You can definitely plan ahead in terms of what you're releasing to the world. Everyone is assuming that come July, August, this will die down. I personally am not having conversations besides with the most optimistic of promoters about shows, pre-October, right now. And really, most of the conversations are 'Well, let's see what the next couple weeks unfolds for us,' so you're not really banking on anything there. But in terms of products or music being released, and social media, building your fan base, and working on consultancy jobs or working with brands, there's still some business out there that can be done. It's a hustle."

"One thing that I am thinking is that all these DJs who usually are gigging Friday, Saturday and Sunday, home on Monday, recovering on Tuesday, making music on Wednesday, and then getting ready to tour again on Thursday, are finally having long periods of time to actually make music. And so, I think what we'll find is a plethora of music coming out at the same time, which has an effect on the developing artists," Leader continued. "Even if I'm looking in October [for their release], I think the market is going to be really excited about the [bigger] producer who's finally released some new material because they had four, five months off the road."

Estornel and Lion also spoke to releasing tracks during the age of COVID-19:

"You don't sell music to dance to or to DJ to when nobody can go out and dance," Estornel explained. "They're not really selling that much music. You have all these artists that had their releases planned and it's like if you postpone the schedule, then their music doesn't come out until way later, when that music's old, basically."

"You can't really go test out new tracks now. I feel like the entire record label promo system right now is just worthless, because how are people even going to go try out your tracks or get feedback on stuff?" Lion says. "I've been seeing a lot of artists go to moving all their stuff over to Bandcamp because it's a much more direct peer-to-peer system over there than having a middle man like Apple Music or Beatport. I'm actually running through and getting our Bandcamp set up today."

Read: Musicians Earn $4.3 Million From Bandcamp With Nearly 800,000 Items Sold On Friday

Creativity & The Future Of Dance Music

Regardless of artists' personal stances on releasing new music now, it's likely many of them will be using the ample free time to work on music in some way. 

"The city where I live, San Francisco is now on lockdown," Luttrell said. "I won't be traveling outside my apartment much the next few weeks. I'll take it as an opportunity to focus on having more interaction with fans online and come up with fun ways to promote different songs on the album... I'm already working on a bunch of new songs that will eventually be the next album, so I feel like there's going to be a lot of time to make that really special. A lot of those songs will have been written during this lock down in S.F., so maybe I'll use the weirdness of it all as some sort of inspiration."

Similarly, van Dyk also feels new music will come out of this experience for him. "I finished my new album," he said. "I was ready to be out on the road in the world to play my music in front of my audience. So it's a bit of a strange timing for me, but I constantly make music and so, I'm pretty sure whatever extra time I have at hands now, some music will come out of it."

Leader also sees these times as a creative challenge and powerful reset for his work. "I think that everyone's playing from a level playground now. You know, everyone is suffering, and in a way, we're all in it together for that reason. And I'm optimistic by nature. I believe that this will end, and we will get back to business, and that it allowed me to really think outside the box in terms of my business. If you're in an intense job like I'm sure you have, you're going a million miles an hour, and you always wish you had a second to breathe, this is giving us that second."

Quarantine Diaries: Beach Slang's James Alex Is Making Mixtapes & Watching "Yellow Submarine" With His Kids

Estornel, who has a young son, acknowledges the challenge of working from home if you have kids that are now out of school. Yet he is embracing the creative exploration that may likely come from the reduced pressure he and other DJs are inevitably facing to make the next club banger. 

"Now, the silver lining could be that people are going to make some amazing music coming out of this. When you don't have the pressure of making a hit track for the club, you usually make something more interesting," Estornel said. "So maybe something new will come out of this, but for the most part it also kind of depresses people because if things are kind of bad out there and you're making dance music and nobody's dancing. It's like, f**k. You don't feel inspired. It's tough.

Maceo Plex added, "I feel less pressure to make a bomb kind of, because there's no reason to right now. In the past, the reason why I have any kind of a bigger name is for all the music that I made that I wasn't worrying about making a bomb. I was just trying to make something that was cool and creative, or pretty or just different sounding tracks. Those ended up becoming bombs. So, I mean, it's kind of good. Creatively, I don't have that pressure. So I might have a bomb after this, I don't know. I'd rather not think about it."

Regardless of whether or not the world is gifted any glittering Maceo Plex bombs over the next month, electronic music will be shifting. With a halt as drastic as this, there is no way things will remain exactly the same when we return to the dancefloor. He sees parallels to the disco backlash in the late-70s that, while harrowing, directly led to the emergence of house music and thriving underground scenes in Chicago, New York City and beyond. As the saying goes, when one door closes, another one opens.

"I think this may be the biggest blow to clubbing since the disco backlash back in the late-'70s, early 80s when everybody was for just a moment it was like this media-driven burning of disco records and stuff." Maceo Plex said. "Since then, clubbing got bigger and better and dance music got way more popular over the past 30, 40 years. I think this is kind of like a reset. I'm hopeful we're going to come out of this strong. Nothing can really stop people from listening to dance music and dancing. …We'll be fine, in other words. It's just that it's going to take a couple of years to get back to the size of festivals that we were used to for a little while. They're kind of almost ridiculous at this point; 100,000 people festivals and stuff like that. I don't feel bad for them as much but because they've made so much money, but EDM, this is probably going to be such a huge blow to commercial EDM music more so than underground music."

"I think underground dance music's going to get big. It's going to get bigger, in a way. It's going to see a Renaissance," Estornel concluded. "Whatever happens, the dance music community is in for a wild ride, with new faces and sounds likely emerging over the coming years."

Quarantine Diaries: L.A. Pop Luminary Katelyn Tarver On Quarantining With Siblings, IN-N-OUT Burger & White Wine

Maceo Plex & Carl Cox at RESISTANCE Ibiza 2018

Maceo Plex B2B Carl Cox at RESISTANCE Ibiza 2018

News

Ultra Miami 2020 RESISTANCE Lineup: Maceo Plex B2B Carl Cox, Amelie Lens, ANNA, Dubfire, Richie Hawtin & More

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Ultra Music Fest's dark and moody house-techno offering is preparing for another lit year, with The Martinez Brothers, CamelPhat, Cirez D, Nicole Moudaber, Tale Of Us and many others also slated to throw down
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Dec 19, 2019 - 5:29 pm

Today, Ultra Music Festival revealed more exciting details for its upcoming 2020 flagship Miami event: the phase one lineup for its darker house and techno RESISTANCE offerings. Longtime underground icon Carl Cox will be performing three times, including a first-time B3B set with The Martinez Brothers and Jamie Jones, as well a B2B with "Mutant Disco" king Maceo Plex; their first North American joint DJ set.

Drumcode founder Adam Beyer and Cirez D, the darker techno alias of Eric Prydz, are also slated to bring the B2B fire to RESISTANCE Miami 2020. Also on deck for collab sets are GRAMMY-winning house legend Dubfire, rising techno queen Nicole Moudaber and longtime Spanish club staple Paco Osuna. Another Spanish legend, Dennis Cruz will pair up with rising U.K. act Michael Bibi to represent European tech-house.

Techno heavy-hitters Richie Hawtin, Tale Of Us, Amelie Lens, ANNA and Pan-Pot will also bring their explosive, warehouse-filling DJ sets to RESISTANCE. On the more housey side of electronic music rainbow, the lineup features past GRAMMY-nominees CamelPhat, along with Ukranian duo ARTBAT, British pair Gorgon City, Manchester duo Solardo and Tunisia's Dice Corleone a.k.a. Loco Dice.

Read: Bye Bye Plastic: BLOND:ISH, Annie Mac, Eats Everything & More Advocate For Eco-Friendly Parties

Previously announced Ultra Miami acts include Gesaffelstein, GRAMMY winners Flume and Zedd, past GRAMMY nominees Above & Beyond and Armin Van Buuren, and many more. Additional acts will continue to be revealed for both the main Ultra stages as well as RESISTANCE as the festival approaches, with a handful of major surprises being unleashed at the event itself (Swedish House Mafia famously surprise-reunited after a five-year break at Ultra 2018).

The 22nd edition of the beloved electronic music festival will return to its longtime home at Bayfront Park, after changing locations in 2019, March 20-22, 2020. This year's event saw a much-buzzed-about second iteration of RESISTANCE at the fest, after the Ultra united their growing house and techno offerings as RESISTANCE in 2018 and brought many of the DJs on this year's lineup to Ibiza and other hotspots over the past few years. (You can check out Maceo Plex and Carl Cox's epic 2018 RESISTANCE Ibiza B2B in the above video.)

Tickets for Ultra Miami are on sale now; visit their website for more info and the complete phase one lineup.

Gershon Kingsley, Electronic Music Pioneer And Composer, Dies at 97

Grammys Newsletter

BLOND:ISH

BLOND:ISH

Photo: Courtesy Of The Artist

 
News

BLOND:ISH On Finding Real Community On Twitch, Staying Present & Remixing Foreigner & Fela Kuti

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GRAMMY.com caught up with the lively DJ/producer to chat about her latest music, finding inspiration in the present moment, advocating for sustainable parties with Bye Bye Plastic and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Nov 23, 2020 - 8:47 am

Vive-Ann Bakos, a.k.a. BLOND:ISH, is a vibrant being who creates joyful soundscapes and spaces for all to dance and play in. The Canada-born, Los Angeles-based DJ/producer has been a global force in the underground house music scene for the past decade-plus, which is fitting for someone whose sets take you on a journey with rhythms from Colombia, Nigeria, Berlin and beyond. While she's played major clubs and festivals around the world, including all over Tulum, Mexico, Miami, Ibiza, Spain and at Coachella 2019, it's perhaps her Burning Man sunrise sets for which she's most beloved.

Now, with the global shutdown of 2020, Bakos has brought her sunshine personality, love of collaboration and joyful music to the world via Twitch with AbracadabraTV. Every week, fellow artists and dance music lovers gather virtually for the lively music from resident and rotating artists on "Magic Saturdaze," as well as yoga, meditation and music during "Self Love Sundays."

Collaboration and connection are at the core of her ethos. Her label, Abracadabra Records, launched in 2018, is another expansion of the BLOND:ISH universe. 2020 releases on Abracadabra have included the Troublemakers Vol. 1 compilation EP and two-track EPs from Canada's Gab Rhome, Paris duo and AbraTV regulars Chambord, Greece's DSF and others. Look out for a new single from the label maestro herself on Dec. 11: a mystical house collab with Rowee called "Garden Of 3Den."

And with Bye Bye Plastic, also created in 2018, Bakos is paving the path for a more sustainable global community with plastic-free, environmentally friendly guidelines for dance music events and festivals.

GRAMMY.com caught up with Bakos to chat about her latest and upcoming music, finding community online, sustainability, collaboration and more.

 
Your birthday just passed. Happy birthday!

Thank you.

I'm a Libra, too. I'm sure you know, Libras are known for being social, diplomatic, creative and other fabulous things. Do you identify with these qualities? And how do you feel being a Libra influences your creativity in your art and your music?

I didn't know that Libras are creative. My girlfriend's looking at me like, "You knew that." [Laughs.] But no, I just do my thing, you know what I mean? I didn't realize that it was potentially a Libra thing. Today, I was walking on the streets, I'm just really inspired by my surroundings. I was walking around New York and [there are] so many inspirational quotes and stuff everywhere. And I'm just so inspired by all that. I could be in Egypt, walking into a hotel and the door's creaking, and I get inspired by that sound and I'll record it. So it's really random for me. I didn't know it had to do with Libras.

So, you're sort of constantly amused, entertained and inspired by the world around you?

Yeah. I was hanging out with a lot of kids during quarantine. And I was making songs about plastic and poop and stuff. It really depends who I'm around.

Earlier this year, you officially released your fun remix of Foreigner's "I Want To Know What Love Is," the only remix they've ever approved. Can you talk about the journey behind the remix?

It was a long journey. Every year at Burning Man, I try to make a special edit for those sunrise moments. And I like it to encapsulate that feeling of being completely free—and the sunrise—in the middle of the desert with your best friends. It's just the best moment ever that exists, so I like to make an edit for that moment. Somehow, Foreigner came on and it's a super cheesy track. For some reason, I thought it would be good for Burning Man because it would encapsulate that moment. I thought it was risky because it was so cheesy, but then I realized, "It's OK, let's take that risk." And I made the edit because it was really fun to play with it and to replay the basslines and stuff.

When I played it, it was one of the last tracks at the Robot Heart set and, literally, hundreds of people took videos. And I realized after I played it that, "Wow, this is actually a track that people really connect with. And it brings back people to so many different memories." So I was like, "I want to release this. How can we do it?"

We tried so many different routes. I got a lot of nos: "No, they're not going to release it." It's not even [from] Foreigner—I was even asking my friends, "Who knows Foreigner?" And I had a bunch of friends who knew that was someone's dad or someone. So we got connected with them and they said, "Yeah, we would love to release it."

But at the end of the day, they don't own it, so we had to get the publisher to release it. And sometimes these are just people sitting behind a desk. They don't really understand. It was an edit, right, it wasn't a complete super remix. And I think some of those A&Rs, they need some EDM remix or something to make it valid. I don't take no for an answer; I just try to find another way. I think that's great advice for people, is if you hear no, just find a different way, potentially. And yeah, finally we got to the right person and we got a yes, and we got it released officially. It took a year and a half.

What's one of your other favorite edits that you've done for Burning Man over the years?

What did I do? I don't even remember. I'd have to check my computer and check my tracks. My girlfriend's like, "Do you need help?" My brain doesn't work like that. I'm so focused on the present or the future; whatever happened in the past is passé.

What are some of the ways that help you stay present or grounded? How has being present in the moment become so natural for you?

Morning rituals, for sure. Morning meditation to start off the day. It's best, when you wake up, to stay away from those distractions as much as possible. So stay away from your phone and laptop. I mean, it's really obvious advice, but it grounds you for the day. It sets up your day in the right direction.

I try to do my morning rituals as much as possible. I try to do some yoga, stretching or Pilates in the morning. I would love to get more into Qigong; right now, that's calling me. I've practiced it, but I don't have it in my daily practice. You know when you just get those downloads? I got that download, I just haven't pressed play yet. And literally, honestly, I try to stay present. I turn off all my notifications and all that stuff. I don't even use Facebook. Have you seen The Social Dilemma?

I still need to watch it, but I've heard good things.

Yeah. Watch Social Dilemma and My Octopus Teacher. I mean, those are two totally different documentaries, but very important for understanding the idea of presence. So even just walking around New York—when I'm walking on the street, I am just listening to the sounds and observing people. And that's also presence, but in a different way. So simple things like that, just being aware.

That's so true. And you're right, it is technically simple, but I think we're so used to being on our phones.

Yeah, for sure. So the whole goal is to get more in your heart, into where your second brain lives, your intuition, which is near your solar plexus. And right now, as humans, we're so in our heads, which is just really top layer, where we're constantly distracted. And that's the furthest away from our true essence. So it's about turning those things off so we can get deeper into ourselves.

You've remixed a lot of great tracks and a lot of really different stuff—Fela Kuti, Black Coffee and Kaskade with Sabrina Claudio, to name a few. How do you typically approach a remix? And what do you feel is the BLOND:ISH touch?

[Laughs.] Honestly, if I like the track, [I'll remix it]. Fela Kuti is such an inspirational character in so many ways. The BPM was so hard to work with on that track, but I was like, "F*** it," because it has such a positive message and he's such an incredible human being that I was inspired by that. And also the whole idea of Africa and the drums; that inspired me.

And then for the Sabrina Claudio remix, they were like, "Oh, they want to release it in two weeks. Can you do a remix in a few days?" And this was at the beginning of quarantine, when there were no clubs, nothing. I was just at home quarantining. And I thought, "The only place you can really listen to music is at home and in your car." I was inspired by the fact that people like to escape from their house and go take a joyride in their cars, so I wanted to make a remix that sounded good in a car. Also, it's that kind of thinking, what's relevant to me in that moment.

I'm working on a remix right now for Christmas. Universal's doing some sort of Christmas album, so I'm remixing an old Temptations track. I remember the Temptations because my parents used to listen to them, and I'm inspired by those really nice basslines they had. I was listening to music all over the house, so I'll make it sound like something you'd like to listen to in your home.

I love that. BLOND:ISH beyond Burning Man, beyond the club.

That's great. Actually, that's a good tagline. I like it.

What's your favorite part about collaborating with other artists?

My favorite part of collaborating is the unknown, where it's going to go. It's like at Burning Man. The reason why Burning Man is so special is because everyone is coming there, sharing their passion or their arts. You'll have the Orgasmatron and then you'll have someone that's really inspired by, I don't know, bourbons or tantra. And they're all living, camping beside each other, and they're interacting. From there comes all the spontaneous moments. That's what art is. It's mixing two creative people.

If you draw two circles, each circle is a collaborator. And there's a part of them that overlaps, and that overlap is unknown. That, to me, is where the magic happens. That's why I love collaborating with other people because you don't know what's going to come out of it. You trust the process because you love what they do, you collaborate with people that you respect and that you're inspired by. So out of the collaboration, new things are born. And you had no idea, you just trusted that process.

Obviously, Burning Man didn't happen this year due to the pandemic. It was just in our hearts. In its absence, what element of magic from the Playa do you feel society could use most right now?

You don't feel lonely at Burning Man. No matter where you are on the Playa, you just feel together; it's one unit. And [there are] 80,000 people there. You feel you all have similar goals and it's all positive. I'm generalizing, but it's really that togetherness, the unity feeling, I guess. And right now, in this world, I'm very optimistic, but things feel so f***ed up and like there's no way out. I hate to say that, but at Burning Man, you don't feel that. You feel everything is going to be OK and that we're all in this together. I feel that's definitely what we can use in this world right now.

I feel like I live in a bubble and I want to make this bubble the size of the world so every human can really feel that freedom and happiness. It's one of our rights. That's what we're trying to do with AbracadabraTV on Twitch and stuff. We're really building the community that way so that they get all those positive reinforcements and those tools. And happiness, ways to feel happy, and music. We go live on Saturdays and Sundays on Twitch, and when we're not live, there's a community gathering on our Discord. There are all sorts of different channels on our Discord: There's a general channel, one on music, on weed, all our different interests. And we talk there when we're not live, so we're still hanging out.

That's where we share a lot of mindful practices, just to hit the messages [from the Twitch programming] home. I've noticed that a lot of people introduce themselves and share they are having mental health issues. And they really find Abracadabra to be a safe space where it actually brings them a little bit of breathing space, out of their mental health issues. I'm all for helping with that.

Wow. That's really powerful. With AbracadabraTV and everything you're doing on Twitch, what has it felt like to have that space to share your music and your message while not being able to do live events and to connect with people in person?

It's such a breath of fresh air. Because if this never happened, I would have never discovered this. I'm so grateful to have discovered it and to actually witness it. Being so connected to the community when I'm playing live—listen, it's amazing, that feeling. And I know DJs miss it very, very much. But honestly, when you're playing a gig, you don't interact with the crowd. You can't get instant feedback. Twitch has chat, which is instant feedback. You can basically have a conversation with your community while you're playing. The conversations they are having online can dictate how your live set progresses and evolves. So it's super cool. The community has never been able to speak with the artists while they're DJing or be connected so closely. That's been an amazing discovery during—whatever this is called—2020.

The thing that is 2020. In addition to the weekly Twitch content, you also hosted the two virtual Abracadabra Festivals. What was the most fun part of the fests for you?

The most fun part, honestly, was being live in the studio in L.A. with the production team, and Channel Tres, Paris Hilton, Diplo, everyone coming through. And everyone just being happy to be a part of it and to be a part of that bigger message. The second festival, we decided to do 80 hours—I don't know why—in a row. It was very exhausting.

But when we were in the studio and everything was just running and we were live and there [were] millions of people watching, I was like, "Wow, it was all worth it." And then getting the feedback from people from all around the world, friends and people that just discovered us. And again, I got that sense of unity for a second. And unity, if you want to backtrack, is one, right? And so this presence, everyone being completely present, also equates to unity as well—they're all in the same space.

Read: Dave Maclean Is Livestreaming With The Band & Chatting With Cats

I've experienced those moments on Twitch where the chat is really fun, the music is really good and I'm dancing with my cat. I never expected a livestream or the internet to be a place where I could really feel present.

The one vibe.

Yeah, it's cool.

It is, right? I'm trying to show the other DJs. Because there's a bunch of DJs that are really not into streaming at all and everyone's different, of course. But I have a feeling that a lot of DJs just haven't gotten that experience, of the chat on fire and all the goodness, of that one vibe on Twitch.

I wonder what the future looks like when we're able to gather again at festivals and in clubs. It would be really interesting to see if artists do more livestreams, where people that can't physically come to the festival can still feel like they're a part of it, too. Do you have any idea of what you'd want to do?

Want me to tell you the future? I'll tell you how it is going to work. So physical events are going to come back. And you have the people that buy tickets and will be there. But you also have another layer, the livestream component. So you have another revenue stream now, where you're going to be selling tickets to the people around the world. For instance, Tulum is open in January, as of now, so we're planning a physical event, obviously reduced capacity, and we're also planning a livestream. So we're going to sell tickets to that as well, for the people that can't be there because many people are not going to travel to Tulum this year, especially from Europe and stuff.

And then, VR is actually getting a huge push because of COVID, and it's all these different worlds. You can come as an avatar to the event; we can build an Abracadabra world in VR. And with a drone, you can control cameras at the event. There are all sorts of different experiences you can have around this one event. And [there are] also ways that—we haven't figured this part out yet, but we're working on it—the audience at home will be able to interact in the physical event somehow.

Read: Bye Bye Plastic: BLOND:ISH, Annie Mac, Eats Everything & More Advocate For Eco-Friendly Parties

To the point of raving in person again, I want to talk about Bye Bye Plastic, because if we want to keep partying, we need to do it in a way that's sustainable. Can you talk about how you are approaching sustainability at events? I'd also love to hear about the initial experience of getting a bunch of DJs on board with the Eco-Rider?

Yeah. I mean, we're trying to just produce the least amount of waste as possible and also being conscious about any fuel we're using to minimize the footprint. We think about the whole circularity of the sustainability process—any waste we produce, what are we doing with each and every thing. Like cigarette butts, where are they going after we collect them? And the compostable cups, where are they going? There isn't any plastic at our events, but even if [there are] bottle caps ...

At our last Tulum event, there was something little that was plastic, and we made sure to repurpose everything. We always make sure it goes to the right place. Even when we do a beach clean, we don't just put the plastic in a recycling bin. We figure out where it's going and make sure it's processed properly because the waste management systems are not trustworthy right now, so we handle it all ourselves.

So [there are] a lot of things that happen in the background with the beach clean. It's not just you show up at the beach, pick up some garbage and that's it. We take inventory and we distribute it properly, so it's upcycled. There's a really cool machine that they've developed in Tulum called Petgas that we're working with. Basically, you can throw any grade of plastic in it and it creates some sort of clean fuel. It's a great collaboration because that will create wealth for the locals.

And your question about the DJs—I mean, listen, I had an assistant last year when I had extra cash. And we had this strategy where it was like, "OK, well we know all the agents, managers, DJs and business. Let's reach out to every single one of them. Let's start a movement." We spent six months getting everyone situated and organized, and then we did a viral push with the video. And that was that. Now we're expanding with more DJs. And working with more agencies and artist houses that have a lot of DJs, so you get 50 artists at a time, not one by one.

I don't know how many times I've wanted to cry leaving an event and walking over crumbled plastic water bottles. The plastic-free Eco-Rider is so smart and seems so common sense. But it is different than the status quo. Were people excited about it?

Yeah, totally, people are excited about it. But then there's a lot of work that's babysitting, basically. When you go to a gig, the DJ doesn't really have time to make sure about all that stuff. So the logistics team, or whoever's helping with the gig, needs to make sure a week before—there's a whole bunch of steps to take care of in the babysitting process.

Right now, there are people doing parties at home, safely or however they're doing it. We want to create a culture of people not buying the red plastic cups, so we're creating a guide for the U.S. of what the alternatives are and how to do a plastic-free event for small private parties and stuff. I noticed people just don't know what to get.

Can we talk a little bit about your label, the other side of Abracadabra? What do you look for in an artist or a release for it?

Well, this is changing right now. Typically, we had a certain vibe, but now there are a lot of artists that come through ABRA TV that are super, super talented and have different styles. It's not just about a genre anymore, it's about the message. So we're expanding that horizon to a positive message with the music.

What BLOND:ISH releases can we expect in the next couple of months, beyond the amazing Christmas track you mentioned?

I did a remix for Sony of [Ethiopian singer] Aster Aweke. It's a really emotional track. You don't understand the words [unless you speak Amharic], but when you feel it, you get the emotion out of it. It's another super cool car track to listen to in your car or dance to in your backyard. That's coming out next. And then I have a release, an original track, with a female vocalist coming out on Spinnin'. It's called "Waves." I don't know when it's coming out though, but probably in a month or two.

And what vibe is "Waves"?

It's very vocal and [features] a lot of piano chords. When you hear the piano chords, it just instantly makes you smile. That kind of vibe.

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Grammys Newsletter

Cassian

 Cassian

Photo: Sean Robinson

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Cassian Talks Debut LP 'Laps,' Attending His First GRAMMYs & Staying Calm In Quarantine

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After countless DJ sets, remixes, singles and behind-the-scenes roles mixing and producing, Cassian is ready to claim the spotlight
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Apr 29, 2020 - 4:00 pm

Sydney-born, L.A.-based mixer/producer/DJ Cassian has an impressive musical resume, dating all the way back to learning piano and guitar as a kid and playing in several bands in high school. Well before he was old enough to hit the clubs, Cassian was DJing and making electronic music. He was inspired by the rich alt-electro scene that exploded in his hometown in the '00s—particularly Modular Recordings, which launched powerhouse Aussie acts like Cut Copy, Tame Impala, Bag Raiders and Van She.

Since then, the triple threat has been sharpening his production skills and refining his upbeat brand of electro/house/techno with DJ sets, major remixes, sprinklings of singles and behind-the-scenes roles mixing and producing for his fellow Aussie electronic acts. With his work mixing RÜFÜS DU SOL's fan-favorite Solace cut "Underwater," Cassian earned his first GRAMMY nomination at the 2020 GRAMMY Awards.

Now, with his debut album Laps (due out June 26 on RÜFÜS' Rose Ave Records), Cassian is finally ready to step into the spotlight. Ahead of the gorgeous LP's release, and right before the title track dropped on April 24, the Recording Academy caught up with the "Magical" artist to dive deep into the project and his musical path. He also talks about how it was attending his very first GRAMMYs, his friendship with RÜFÜS, the first rave he attended and how he's been keeping calm in quarantine.

When did you move out to L.A.?

It's been a strange move because it's been this drawn-out process. When I first moved here, I didn't truly move. One of my buddies had an Airbnb house he was renting and I took it over and didn't leave for a few years. But it wasn't my place, it didn't have my name on the bills or my furniture there or anything like that. That was, I think, the end of 2015 when I first came out here. I was going back and forth to Australia a lot. Now, with this lockdown I'm going to be in the States for who knows how long. But I just moved into my own place and set it all up, and I've got a little home studio here. So it took me like four years to get set up, but now I'm being forced to really settle in.

I bet it's nice that you have space to make music. I can imagine that that's an essential thing for you right now?

Oh, it's so lucky. It's just a small apartment, but it has an extra little room that I've got a home studio set up in. And I was working at another studio Downtown for the last three years and I just moved out of there. I didn't even know where I was going to have my next studio, but this little home studio is providing a good little interim setup until I can get into the next proper spot.

Wow, that's wild. Do you feel like you live in L.A. now?

It was weird because I was still spending so much time in Australia the last few years. Last year, I was in Australia for more than six months. I had so many shows out there. And every time I go back to Oz it's like I never left, and then every time I'm here it's like I live here. So it was this weird type of double life I felt like I was living. Now, I think this is the longest I've been in L.A. without going anywhere is the last month. I probably haven't been in one place without going anywhere for a month in at least four or five years. So it feels good, it feels nice to have so much more energy. My energy for workouts and everything is so much better, and I just generally feel pretty good.

A project that's a long time coming, your debut album Laps, is due out in about two months. What does it mean to you to share this body of work with the world, and what did it feel like when you finished it?

Well, I'm still working on it. We had some last-minute issues with one of the songs and we had to cut a new vocal from another artist. But we found someone really quickly, and we're still in the process of smoothing that out right now, but it's really exciting. It's so funny, I've worked on so many albums and projects for other people, and there's never that moment like, I don't know, you see in a movie, where you finish the album and press send on the email or hit the export button, and your like, "We're done, all right!" And you have this moment of relief.

It's always, you finish mixing, then you start the mastering, and then there's a couple mastering changes, and then you have to go back and change the mix. It just drags on for a long time so you never really get that moment. It's just lots of little moments—figuring out what the artwork's going to be, figuring out what songs are going to be on the album.

And yeah, it has been such a long time coming. I've been playing most of the songs that are on the album in my live show for about a year and a half now. I've been living with these songs. I've had the book of what my project is all about, and I've been reading it over and over, and I know what it is all about, but no one else does yet.

So I think that's what's most exciting about it, is just giving people the full picture of what the project is about, and also the full picture of what the songs I've been releasing mean in the context of it. The songs were never, "Oh, I have a single and let's just release that," it was all these songs that have been existing for years before we decided to do an album. Then it was forming and bending them, changing them to fit the story that I wanted to tell on the album.

How would you describe what is the album is about?

The album is about the cycles and loops that everyone experiences in relationships—that's why it's called Laps. It's the concept of doing laps, and the album is meant to explore that full spectrum of what a relationship is from the start, even before a relationship has started with someone. It's from that moment of being open to going through it all the way to that moment when it's over and it's completely gone, and you're just starting again.

You've released a handful of tracks ahead of it over the last year and a half, and the title track, which closes the album, is the latest. How do you feel "Laps" speaks to the project as a whole? And where does that song fall in the creative timeline of the album?

I never thought that it would be released on its own as single. I started working on it after I had the concept for the album, and from the start it always fit the story, it was the end of the album. The idea behind that track is that it's a linear journey. It's the [final] phase of forgetting and moving on. By the end of the song, the feeling I was trying to go for is that it's a clean slate and you're back to the start, you're back to a neutral place. The track doesn't really have a chorus or a main moment to it, it just starts and goes on like a journey. It has some moments, but it's not like anything else I've released or done before. I guess that's also why it's so long, I wanted to cram a lot into it to where it starts and ends in different places, and going through a range of moments in the song.

That's super cool. Is it one of the last songs you wrote for the album?

Yeah. The original demo started maybe three years ago, I think it was 2017 when I started. And it's been a constant change. The version that is coming out was only finished a couple months ago, and there were some big things that were changed over the last month before it was done. There's a bunch of songs on the album that are like that. Because I just want to keep working on things, and I'm never like, "Yep, this is done." If you give me more time I'll just keep messing with it.

So yeah, the concept for "Laps" has stayed the same, it just changes with how I've been feeling over the last few years. It's had so many different forms, and the version that is being released is just the most recent way that I felt to express the story of the song.

It would be super-interesting to see the evolution of it.

Yeah. There's some funny demos of all of these songs. There's one on the album called "Open Up," which the original version of that song had my friend singing this really soulful vocal and was very soothing. Then somewhere along the way it just completely changed to be this more aggressive track. It's been a cool journey with all these songs. There's probably a couple on there that the demos are close to how the final version sounds, but for a lot of them they've really been through so many totally different versions.

So when you've been performing them live, were there earlier versions that you played? Did you have any Frank Ocean moments like that?

Totally. "Together" has changed a bunch as I've been performing it. The version on the album I played at CRSSD, but in the last two years since I've been doing the live show there's been three main versions, where the main instruments or sections are all different. That's one of the oldest songs on the album actually. I wrote that song with one of my friends about four years ago; everything was completely different to how it is now. That old demo, there's nothing in common with the most recent one, not a single sound, not a single melody. Apart from the vocal, everything changed.

Would you say that you're a bit of a perfectionist?

Oh, for sure. I'm always very self-critical of my work, on my own music and work I do for others. I'm always trying to get closer and closer to this sound I have in my head for whatever project it is. I think that's part of the reason why this album has come together now. I finally decided I was at a place where I could actually execute the sound I wanted to a level that I was happy with.

It feels like some external perfection is definitely my own thing. And, at least for the last few years, I've been confident in what I could do, but now, with the album especially, I really found the sound and everything else I wanted to do, something that I would be proud to push people to listen to.

I want to talk about one of the other songs you've released, "Magical" featuring ZOLLY of Crooked Colours. You've worked with them before—you mixed Vera, correct?

Yeah, I mixed that album and co-produced "Perfect Run," the last track on that album. Yeah, as soon as we started working on that it was a vibe, and I just basically said to Phil [Slabber, a.k.a. ZOLLY], "Dude, please sing on a track for me. Let's write a song together."

So, the journey of "Magical"—I initially had this repetitive, almost techno but really slow, instrumental track that I wrote. I was mixing it with one of my friends, his name's Jack Glass, he's from Bag Raiders, another Australian guy. We were messing around in his studio and I didn't think, "Oh, this should have a vocal", it was just instrumental.

Anyways, Phil and I were both in Sydney and he had a little time. We could finally work on the song we'd been talking about doing for a few years. So we went in the studio and he was like, "What have you been working on?" I played him some stuff, including that slow techno thing, and he was like, "Oh this is sick, we should write to this."

At first, I was like, "No"—there wasn't even any chord changes, it was just very repetitive on its own. But we just started writing chord changes to it and working on the vocal, and it came together really quickly, mainly in just that first session. We kind of brought it together. Also, by that time I already had the concept of the album, so we wrote it with that in mind.

It's funny, because that original beat doesn't sound anything like what the final thing is now, but when he heard it, it inspired him. He was like, "Oh, here's what we should work on." There's something about the energy of that initial idea is still there, but everything changed.

Does it feel different bringing some of the people you've mixed and produced for onto your own project? 

Well, it feels really good. Because even with the music that I work on, most of the time is with friends and artists that I like. I don't want to sound like I'm saying no to people all the time, but I am careful to pick and choose to work on stuff that I really like. Especially because I have to balance my time between that behind-the-scenes work and my artist work. In the past, I definitely got caught working on projects I wasn't passionate about, and so for the last few years it's been only things that I'm passionate about it.

Most of those are also things I would love to work on with my artist project, and most of the people I work with behind the scenes, eventually there's going to be a collab together as well. And this is just the first one. When you work on an album together, you get to know each other pretty well, and you get in touch with their singing, you get to know their voice. I like being that familiar. I've always leaned into familiarity, like friendships, and even just with places. I'm not going into any cafes at the moment, but there's one café that I always go to with my friends. I try to collaborate with all my friends really quite a bit.

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That's awesome. And based on everyone you've worked with before, if that was your pool of people to collaborate in the future, that's pretty dope.

Yeah. I'm very, very lucky with Running Touch and Hayden James, with RÜFÜS DU SOL. There are so many great artists that I get to work with. All those relationships started with a friendship. If I can help them on their project, I love doing it, and it's also nice to get to work on and hear music before anyone else does. And then not only hear it but get to influence how it sounds, and have your input into music that you really enjoy.

Speaking of friendships, you got your first GRAMMY nomination this year with RÜFÜS for "Underwater." Do you have any good stories from the show? What was the experience like for you?

Well, I was actually kind of sick. I was feeling a little sketchy a few days before, and then that night I started really feeling sick. But no, it was awesome. It was the people that worked on that song, and on that album [2018's SOLACE], we were all there. It was just a nice day to spend it together and just take a moment to appreciate that album and song.

That day was really crazy because Kobe passed away. We went into the Microsoft Theater [for the GRAMMY Premiere Ceremony], we sat down, they came up to our category and we didn't win, so we were a little bit bummed down. But obviously we were also still really happy, congratulating each other and stuff. We decided to get some lunch, and we walk outside and there's thousands of people. My phone starts going off, and my friends are texting me telling me what happened. It was so surreal. In general, it was a very surreal day. And even just to be at Staples. I'm a huge NBA fan. I go to games all the time there, and to be there on the day Kobe passed away, in a familiar place, but it was set up so differently.

Everyone who performed, like seeing Lizzo, it just didn't feel real. I was also in this haze of feeling like I was coming down with the flu. It was a very strange but memorable day. It was one of those experience that, especially with the red carpet, it's one of those things you just feel super lucky to have the chance to do. Going down any red carpet is a lot, but the GRAMMY red carpet is so much.

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The RÜFÜS guys and I spoke about that lot, especially in regards to being on stage, it's just slowing it down and taking things in, taking that extra second to let things hit you and sink in, and feel what's happening in the moment. So that was really cool. It's one of those things like, "Who knows if I'm ever going to get the chance to do this again?" So you really try to enjoy it for what it is, and take it all in, but it's also incredibly inspiring, you're like, "Oh, I want to work my ass off to try and be back here."

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Hell yeah! I always say, you got to put that energy out there into the world.

I joke around with my friends about getting gold records and stuff like that, but I've never made the joke of, "We should get a GRAMMY for this." It's crazy.

Your track, "Lafayette," another album cut, was the first release from RÜFÜS' Rose Ave Records back in 2018. What did that inaugural label release mean to you, and what does it feel like to be a part of their label family?

With that song especially, for me, it was like, "That had to be their first song on there that they release ever" because I've been working so copiously with them since like 2012, '13. I've done so many shows with them, and been mixing their records, and remixing them. They're also all my closest friends. And that track in particular, I made the initial idea on tour with them in a Sprinter van years ago.

I think we were on the way to Chicago or somewhere in the Midwest. I was just sitting in the front seat of the van. It's crazy, because now when they tour they're on a bus. But yeah, we would just all make music in the van and then play it to each other when we got to our next stop. It only feels right to me that they started a label and it comes out on their label. Again, it's one of those things you would never speak. Like, "Hey, why don't you guys start a label and we put out this record?" It's just a thing that's happened, and it feels right.

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I would love to learn a bit more about your musical journey, as you've been putting out tracks and remixes for the better part of the decade. When did you first start learning to make music, and then when did you get into DJing and producing?

So from when I was really young I was learning music. I always had a piano in my house—I started when I was about five. The piano that I was learning on was my great-grandma's piano, and that whole side of the family was super musical, there's a ton of musicians and an orchestra conductor. My parents aren't musical, but my mom definitely kept that family tradition alive. I learned piano from when I was really young and I started learning guitar when I was 11 or 12. I was always in a band in high school.

When I was 15 or 16, I was in a band with some family friends who were a bit older, and we were doing gigs in the city, at bars and clubs and stuff. My mom and dad would have to come to supervise me because I was underage. The lead singer's older brother ran a nightclub, and so we would do shows at his club and DJs would come in afterwards. I'm like 17, 18, seeing electronic music. And Sydney back then, there were so many good bands as well. With Modular Recordings, all those acts were just killing it in Sydney.

I remember one time we supported the band Van She. I never heard stuff like that before and I was so stoked. I went and bought their single the next day. I was just immersed in that world from when I was pretty young, and I just wanted to do it. I had no idea what I was doing, there wasn't YouTube [tutorials] and stuff back then. I started making friends with people who were making that kind of music, and slowing figuring it out. I think my first record I put out, when I was 18 or 19, was on Bang Gang Records, which was a Modular subsidiary label.

I look at things so different now. Back then I didn't have a plan, I wasn't trying to say anything, I was just making music and messing around, releasing it with no thought. Slowly, over 10 years, like I was saying before, I've been figuring out what I can do better, and how to move forward closer to whatever the sound I hear in my head.

I've stayed on that journey for that last 10 years, and it's funny because I say all that but also I feel like I'm really just starting my career as an artist right now. It took me that time to learn what an artist was, and what I wanted to say and do as an artist. And to have infrastructure around me as a label that supports me, and management that is helping me execute what I want to as an artist. So I've been doing things a long time, but I really feel like I'm just starting with this album, the first thing for me as an artist.

Did you DJ college parties or make music when you were in school?

No. Well, it's so different in Australia, most people just go to school in their hometown. I grew up in Sydney, one of the biggest cities in Australia, and there's a bunch of schools there. So I went to a school that was 20 minutes from my house where I grew up and I never really got into it. I was never involved on campus. I would just go to my lectures, go to my tutorials and go home. That was it. Eventually I just stopped going; I started touring and was like, "Cool, I'm done with this."

What was the first concert you attended when you were younger? What about the first electronic music show or rave you went to?

That line is so blurred because when I was 16 I would go and play those shows and stay after and see bands. One of the first I can remember is, around 18, I was going to see Bloc Party at the Horton Pavilion in Sydney, which is this big almost-warehouse venue. One of the first raves I guess I went to was the Daft Punk Alive tour [in 2007]. It was really good.

We did so many things like that. They played in Sydney and me and a bunch of friends went. I think I might already have been making music a little bit when this happened, because the Bang Gang guys were DJing before Daft Punk, and I knew them, and I remember they were playing songs and I was texting them going, "What's this song? You got send me this." But yeah, that was definitely one of the first big ones I went to.

There were a few really good ones. There was Park Life Festival, in 2007 or 2008, seeing Digitalism and Justice—they were crazy. It was lucky, it was all pretty good stuff that I got to see when I was first getting started. And it's crazy with what electronic music festivals and shows look like now, when that Daft Punk show came along, there was nothing like that, not even close. Now, nothing is still really on that level, but everything is in that vein of crazy lighting and video. That show was like the template.

When you're 18, and it's Daft Punk, it's all their songs and their remixes, and the pyramid just started out with lights and colors, and then by the end of the show the pyramid was a full video screen with lights all over that lit up at the end. Every song there was a new surprise that would blow your mind. It was a crazy show.

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At CRSSD, you had your first main stage live show. What did that set feel like for you, and what are you most looking forward to about eventually getting back on stage?

I think it was the first time I had done my full live show at a U.S. festival, definitely the first time on a main stage doing the live show. That show was really special because the album was more or less finished, so I played "Laps" for the first time there. That's the first live show where everything I played was the final album versions, so that felt really cool. It was also the first show that we had visuals. My whole team was there. There's three people on my management team, and they were all down there, and my girlfriend was there.

Also, I played CRSSD years ago, and I'm close with the whole FNGRS CRSSD team, and they've become fans over the years. It felt the start of the next chapter, and to start it with them felt really cool. And you know what I was saying before about familiar places, CRSSD is so familiar to me. I was there when RÜFÜS DU SOL played two years ago [they returned this year], Hayden James has played there as well. I played there three of four years ago. I just feel so comfortable there.

I was a little worried about playing so early in the day, but a bunch of people came down. I was super inspired after that show, and looking forward to—because we had the whole year planned out—a bunch of the summer festivals and headline shows later in the year. I guess when things get started again, I'm trying not to have any expectations.

When you're releasing an album, everyone, like my managers and agents, has been working so hard to put together this year of touring, release schedules and everything that compliments the album and what you're trying to do as an artist. Then, within a week, it's all gone. There's nothing you can do about it. I'm not bummed out about it, but everything is gone so quickly. I'm going to try to take it in stride and, I don't know, just roll.

A bunch of my friends always tease me about this, but generally I never get excited about things until they're done, really. Even when I was driving into CRSSD, or going out to Coachella with my girlfriend or with one my managers, they're like, "So are you pumped?" I'm like, "Not really. We'll see what happens when it's together." So that's my attitude with this. Who knows when things are going to get started again and what things will be like, but I'm not going anywhere.

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What has helped you stay grounded during quarantine?

Honestly, I'm still figuring it out. Everywhere I go really, I'm such a creature of routine; whether I'm in L.A. or when I'm in touring in Australia, I still get to have my routine more or less because my family's out there. So it's been hard to figure out what that new quarantine routine is like. I'm trying to stay focused on figuring it out, which is what's helping me stay grounded.

I used to go to the same café every day, and eat out lot and get takeout from a bunch of my favorite spots. Now all of that's changed, so it's like, okay, my routine is going to the shops once every two or three weeks. Nothing exciting, just trying to ration out my pasta and figuring out how much Himalayan rock salt I can use every day.

Are there any things you think are going to stick in the quarantine routine? You mentioned working out, or anything else that has felt good?

For my workouts, I used to get up super early and go to the gym every day at the same time, same gym. Now, I've been exploring the neighborhood I live in, and walking around more. I'm definitely going to be doing more of that, definitely going to be cooking for myself more. My old routine I would just get up, workout, go to the studio. I would just be in the studio all day, have dinner at the studio, then come home and just sleep.

Now I'm realizing I didn't need to do that, and I've set up a little studio at home, so now I can just work from home when I don't feel like going to the studio. Also, I traveled so much and I didn't question it, and took it for granted. And [now] it's been a conversation I've been having with my team.

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