What Nile Rodgers loves the most about K-pop is that it is fearless. The revered producer, guitarist, and four-time GRAMMY winner (as well as Lifetime Achievement Award recipient) spares no words on how invigorating the South Korean industry is. "For a musician like myself, it’s exciting to have that kind of challenge," he says over a Zoom from his studio, whose walls are covered in gold, platinum and diamond albums.
Rodgers’ work has soundtracked our lives more than we know. In 1977, he co-founded the disco vanguard band Chic, which then spawned samples for the Sugarhill Gang's "Rapper's Delight," Queen's "Another One Bites the Dust," and Daft Punk’s "Around the World." He collaborated with Diana Ross, David Bowie, Beyoncé and many others, and produced era-defining albums such as Madonna’s Like a Virgin and Duran Duran’s Notorious.
Now, he’s ready to make his debut into the K-pop realm alongside girl group LE SSERAFIM. Rodgers is featured on "Unforgiven," the title track from LE SSERAFIM's debut studio album. The track also samples Ennio Morricone’s theme song from the 1966 spaghetti Western film The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, and the music video, recorded in Thailand, sees them boldly take the town in cowgirl outfits — a celebration of all the "unforgiven girls" and "unforgiven boys" in the lyrics.
Rodgers couldn’t have chosen a better act for his first K-pop feature. LE SSERAFIM takes their name out of an anagram for "I’m fearless." In May 2022, the quintet became the first girl group launched by Source Music under HYBE — the same label of K-pop icons BTS and SEVENTEEN — with the fittingly-titled EP Fearless. Aiming to spread self-confident messages, LE SSERAFIM established themselves as unflinching, dare-devilish stars.
Throughout Unforgiven’s 13 tracks, LE SSERAFIM are boldly themselves, regardless of what others think. Whether they are the unforgiven villains of the title track, "a mess in distress" in "Eve, Psyche & The Bluebeard’s wife," or demonstrate vulnerably on "FEARNOT (Between you, me and the lamppost)," LE SSERAFIM live by their truth. And what’s more fearless than that?
GRAMMY.com caught up with Nile Rodgers and LE SSERAFIM's Sakura, Kim Chaewon, Huh Yunjin, Kazuha, and Hong Eunchae for an exclusive conversation about Western and Eastern collaborations, what makes K-pop so exciting, and what they learned from each other.
Nile, you have collaborated with many legendary artists throughout the decades. What made you choose LE SSERAFIM to be your first K-pop collaboration?
Nile Rodgers: Why? Because when I heard the song, I loved it.
LE SSERAFIM [in unison]: Thank you!
LE SSERAFIM, did you know about Nile’s work before? What was your reaction when you learned that he was featuring on "Unforgiven?"
Yunjin: Well, I grew up in the States, so of course I knew. We were all so shocked to know that such a legend would work with us. It hasn't even been a year since we debuted, we were so honored and so excited.
Sakura: It was a really, really huge honor, and I still cannot believe that it happened. When Nile first played the guitar for us, I was completely blown away. I was like, "Is this going to be in our song?" I couldn't believe it. I was really proud.
Yunjin: I remember when I first told my parents, they were like, "No way! You? You and Nile Rodgers?" [Laughs.]
Nile, what are your impressions about K-pop in general? How do you see its growth in America and across the world?
Rodgers: This may sound nerdy, but I love the fact that it seems like a lot of the K-pop that I'm hearing lately, the new music, [has] the harmonic changes. The chord changes are a lot more interesting than what's been happening [in other music fields] over the last few years.
And that's made me excited, because I come from a jazz background, so to hear chord changes like that is really cool. They’re not afraid, which is great to me.
LE SSERAFIM, as a K-pop group, why do you think that it's important to collaborate with Western artists like Nile Rodgers? Is making your music more global something that you strive for to reach more people?
Yunjin: As time goes by, on the contrary, I think it's harder to find boundaries. Music is a universal language, and I think it's very good and very honorable to have Western and Eastern artists collaborating from wherever they are. It's just so that more people can enjoy good music. Isn't that the only reason? Like, music is good, and so more people should listen to it.
Rodgers: And I agree.
How has this collaboration inspired you further? Is there anything you learned from working together that you want to apply to your future work?
Rodgers: I was thinking I should have worn a cowboy hat today. [Laughs.]
Kazuha: When we first met online, Nile played [the guitar] according to our song, and it was completely freestyle. It wasn't something like "Oh, I'm gonna sit down and play music," it was just completely freestyle. I thought it was really cool and fascinating for a new work of art to be formed just by going with the flow and feeling the vibe. I thought it would be nice to [have] that process for us too, as true artists and for [creating] similar works of art as well.
Since Nile mentioned the cowboy hat, "Unforgiven" samples The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly soundtrack, which is a surprising novelty. What do you think about the fact that you are actually merging the past with the present, and bridging decades of culture in one song?
Sakura: I just learned that there are no set rules in music, we just do it.
Rodgers: I once attended a concert with maestro Ennio Morricone, who wrote the music for The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. He had me sit right behind him while he conducted. It was fantastic.
Yunjin: Wow, so it must have been very weird to hear that in a K-pop song?
Rodgers: It's cool. See, that's the thing I like. K-pop music is stretching the boundaries. I was talking to my engineer today, and we were listening to, not just the rest of [LE SSERAFIM’s] album, but other people who are sending me music or would like me to play with them. And I was noticing that, as I said earlier, harmonically, it's a lot more interesting than what's been happening in the last maybe 10 years, where it's been almost the same four chords over and over and over again, just different melodies.
Nile, you've heard the rest of Unforgiven. LE SSERAFIM’s album. What was the main takeaway that you got from it?
Rodgers: I actually think that it's really cool. I think it's progressive. It's fun. It's exciting. I hope that what I feel is what the rest of the world feels — I loved it. There’s a lot of good writers and producers. It's really great.
**LE SSERAFIM [in unison]: **Aw, thank you so much!
The title Unforgiven is based on the idea that you don’t need excuses to be who you are. Is there anything specific that you learned about yourselves while working with this concept?
Yunjin: Through every album, we grow with it and then we are able to personify [it]. I think the main message that we want to convey has actually become our story. No matter what people say — even if they might judge us, or misperceive us, or point fingers at us — regardless of what people think, we might become the villain in other people's eyes. But just like how our music is crossing lines and stretching out the boundaries, we want to become a team that can continue doing that.
Rodgers: I think what you're saying is exactly right. If you have a message and a concept, never worry about some people not liking it, because there's no way that everybody can like everything.
I mean, even the five of you probably don't like all the exact same food at the exact same moment, but it's okay. Sometimes people don't understand it right away and they get it later on, and that's cool too. Art is personal.
Were there any challenges working together, or any obstacles that you had to overcome while recording?
Rodgers: Well, I was In America, unfortunately, and they were in Korea. You can see that we can work like this, we can work remotely, but it would probably be fun to be in the same room.
Chaewon: Sure, sure, hopefully.
LE SSERAFIM was the first girl group launched by Source Music under HYBE, and now you're part of such a strong new generation of girl groups who also debuted in the past few years. What are some of your thoughts about being part of this new wave?
Eunchae: I think it is really nice to be active in a time where so many great girl groups are getting a lot of attention. A lot of people are listening to their music, and while we are also promoting with other groups, we're getting a lot of motivation and positive influences. I'm really satisfied and happy with that.
There’s plenty of musical styles that you approach on Unforgiven — Latin rhythms, Jersey Club beats, and even some country rock. What are some of your favorite experimentations or favorite moments to work on in the album?
Chaewon: "Unforgiven!"
Yunjin: I think the fact that Nile is in our album is just… You just can't not have "Unforgiven" as a favorite. I think all of us have "Unforgiven" as our top two. It's my personal favorite title track that we have ever done.
Sakura, Kazuha and Eunchae: Yes, "Unforgiven"!
Rodgers: I didn't pay them to say that. [Laughs.]
Nile, do you have any other favorites in the album, besides "Unforgiven"?
Rodgers: I actually liked the whole album. That's why, when we first started talking, I really was impressed with the fact that it's not conventional. It's not exactly what you would think. As a musician, it's great to listen to, to have different styles of music, and all of the styles that they pursue sound sincere.
If you could collaborate together again, what kind of music would you want to make?
Chaewon: Wow, that’s hard. I think if we can collaborate together again, anything would be fine.
Yunjin: We will try our best at everything.
Rodgers: I have a feeling in my heart that we will collaborate again.
[LE SSERAFIM cheer and send heart hands and thumbs ups to Nile.]
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