meta-scriptJulia Michaels On Her Long-Awaited Debut 'Not In Chronological Order' And How Being In Love Inspired It | GRAMMY.com
Julia Michaels On Her Long-Awaited Debut 'Not In Chronological Order' And How Being In Love Inspired It

Julia Michaels

Photo: Miranda McDonald

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Julia Michaels On Her Long-Awaited Debut 'Not In Chronological Order' And How Being In Love Inspired It

Ahead of her keynote conversation at the GRAMMY U Virtual Conference on May 7, Julia Michaels sat down with GRAMMY.com to candidly discuss her debut, love, relationships, social media, and more

GRAMMYs/Apr 30, 2021 - 05:15 pm

Julia Michaels is someone you’re already familiar with—whether you know it or not. The songwriter turned singer has several hits under her belt, one being her 2017 acclaimed song "Issues." Before her move to the stage, her career was forged by songwriting for pop stars like Selena Gomez, Fifth Harmony and Hailee SteinfieldAfter signing with Republic Records in 2016, she released "Nervous System" and "Inner Monologue Pt. 1," toured the world and received three GRAMMY nominations, including one for Best New Artist. But on her debut album, Not In Chronological Order, out today, Michaels is giving you several more reasons to not forget her.

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The Iowa-born singer/songwriter admits she's taken her time to release her biggest project yet. "It took me a long time to do this album mostly just because I don't know if I was really ready to do an album and I think one day it just hit me," she told GRAMMY.com. "I realized I had enough songs to be close to an album and I was just like, 'I don't want to stop. I want to make this. I want to put it out.'"

While her debut took her some time to make, Michaels’ ability to make pop music more personal—stemming from her mastery as a wordsmith—continues to shine on her first full-length album. In the past, through her transparent ballads, she has shared battles with mental health and anxiety, inadvertently working to destigmatize these topics within the pop genre. On Not In Chronological Order falling in and out of love are the central themes as she jumps across various timelines in her life, from her early 20s to now.

"Love is Weird" is the common thread between these conflicting experiences and emotions on the album as an acoustic guitar is accompanied by Michaels’ forthright lyrics about her encounters with the good and bad of love and relationships. She additionally shows her range in more upbeat singles like "All Your Exes" and "Lie Like This," which contain messages of reclaiming her own happiness and well-being from the waves of sadness after a breakup. The album shows that Michaels is just as resilient as she is relatable—and she refuses to be a monolith.

Ahead of her keynote conversation with close friend and manager Beka Tischker at the GRAMMY U Virtual Conference on May 7 at 3 p.m. PT / 6 p.m. ET in which she will open up about what it takes to be an artist, Julia Michaels sat down with GRAMMY.com to discuss writing the new album, how finding love inspired it, her favorite track and more.

Before this album, you had two projects under your belt. What was the biggest change that you saw within yourself when songwriting for this album? 

I think the biggest change and the biggest thing that's happened is I've fallen in love. I think that's always inspiration for me when I write. It feels good. It just feels good, and I wanted to write about it. 

You created the album during a pandemic. Did that have any impact on your creativity? 

I think isolation and self-reflection are two things that plagued a lot of my quarantine time. It also was kind of bizarre because we had to socially distance for our sessions and I've never really done anything like that, but I was like I'm not making an album on Zoom. I refuse. I don't want to do that. That was probably one of the biggest things, the social distance stuff. 

What does the album's title mean for you and how did you come up with timing as the concept for your album? 

Not IChronological Order, literally just means not in chronological order. None of the songs are in order of the way they happened in my life. And timing—yeah, it took me a long time to do this album mostly just because I don't know if I was really ready to do an album and I think one day it just hit me. I was doing "Lie Like This" and then I was writing "Pessimist" and I was writing all these songs. Then I realized I had enough songs to be close to an album and I was just like, "I don't want to stop. I want to make this. I want to put it out."

Do you think listeners could put this album on shuffle then or does it need to be listened to front to back? 

No. I think they can put on a different song. I think my album is very situational. I feel like I have a song for everything on this album. I have a song for if you're feeling spiteful or revengeful, if you're feeling jealous, if you are just having a moment. I have songs for if you're heartbroken, if you're in love. I think my fans can always expect those kinds of things from me, always expect situational songs from me because I am in a situational person. 

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On "Love is Weird" you sing, "Love is strange for some. It ranges from love to tears." Do you think that the tension of love is what keeps people together or sometimes pulls people apart? 

I think if you would have asked me this when I was 23 [years old], I would have said it pulls people together. I don't think that as a 27-year-old. I think for people like me who have anxiety and depression, I think for me personally, I thought I deserved a certain kind of love, like a very kind of toxic traumatic kind of love. And then, you meet somebody that changes all of that for you, and you're like, ‘Oh no it doesn't have to be this traumatic, chaotic, bullshit of a relationship. It can be easy. It can be beautiful and it can be communicative and it can be passionate without all the f***ing chaotic energy. 

Was there ever a big breakthrough moment that you had in the studio when you were writing or recording? 

I wouldn't say there was a breakthrough moment, but I think probably one of the songs that had me sort of more vulnerable than the others would be a song called "That's the Kind of Woman." I wrote that in a session with Michael Pollock. It started as an idea I had in the bathtub. I think it was just one of those songs where I was just thinking about all of the things that I wish I could—if I was sort of a well-rounded human being, what that would look like and I just started all the things that that would look like, and I remember Michael Pollock and I just like crying in the studio and writing it together. It was just a really beautiful moment. It's probably one of my favorites on the album for sure. 

 Is it tough for you to allow others to see that part of yourself, especially when thinking about "That’s the Kind of Woman?"

I think my fans have always known me to be very openly vulnerable. I feel like that's sort of, in a weird bizarre way, my brand. I'm innately an emotional person and innately a vulnerable person and I feel like some of my favorite music of all time is vulnerable. I wouldn't do this, I wouldn't be putting myself out there on stage and all of this stuff if I wasn't able to be vulnerable. 

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Do you have a favorite vulnerable or soul-crushing ballad that you listen to often? 

My favorite one is probably "Independence Day" by Ani DiFranco. It's the best song of all time. 

Do you have any particular inspirations for the production on "Orange Magic," because it contains elements of synth and new wave? What was the story behind that song? 

I wrote "Orange Magic" about my boyfriend and about sort of our first date and falling in love and that kind of stuff. I guess "Love is Weird" was how I described the complexities of love. I wanted "Orange Magic" to sonically sound like complexities of love. I wanted it to sound a bit eerie and a bit distorted and just have this sort of weird sonic beautifulness about it. 

Are you on TikTok? What are your thoughts about people using certain songs off of this album on the platform? 

I am on TikTok, but I use TikTok mostly for fan questions or to talk about the album. I'm not good at doing the trends and the dances and that kind of s***. That's just not me at all, to each their own—and if  you can, congrats. I use TikTok a lot just to answer questions and talk to my fans, just like on another platform. If they use my songs and they want it and feel connected to do things with them, that's awesome. Please, by all means, have fun. I'm always interested in seeing other people's creativity  and how they personify songs and how they resonate with songs and what their creativity makes them see with songs. 

On social media, you can be connected with your fans in such a close way, but it can also be a place with a lot of negativity, do you have any tips on how to block out some of the negativity or what you do to counteract it? 

It's complicated because it is such an interesting place. For every 20 comments I get one that's just like, "Is that necessary on a Tuesday, on a nice sunny day, you a******?" Honestly, I try to just focus on the people that are there to support and focus on the people that I love and that lovme and that are really excited about this album. I've just been focusing on them. It definitely gets to me sometimes. I have my moments where I'm just over people and I'm not scared to speak my mind and say if something is fucked up, but I try to just focus on the people that I love and that are excited about the album. 

What song are you most looking forward to performing on tour eventually and seeing your fans sing along to? 

I think I'm most excited for "All Your Exes." I think that one's going to be really fun live. I also think that "Little Did I Know" is going to be a really beautiful and intimate moment that I think will be a special part of the show. 

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Behind Julia Michaels' Hits: From Working With Britney & Bieber, To Writing For 'Wish'
Julia Michaels attends the 'Wish' UK premiere

Photo: Belinda Jiao / Getty Images

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Behind Julia Michaels' Hits: From Working With Britney & Bieber, To Writing For 'Wish'

GRAMMY-nominated songwriter and artist Julia Michaels has been trusted to turn pop stars' revelatory moments into song. Michaels spoke to GRAMMY.com about creating authentic songs and the stories behind some of her biggest hits.

GRAMMYs/Dec 18, 2023 - 02:51 pm

Julia Michaels landed her first major songwriting gig at just 18 years old. 

Fresh out of school, she’d cold pitched a little company named Walt Disney with a song she thought would suit an upcoming series. That song went on to soundtrack a popular Disney Channel show called "Austin & Ally."

Michaels quickly developed a reputation for her quick work and therapeutic approach to songwriting, and, in her early 20s, was transforming pop music via her confessional and slightly quirky perspective. The L.A.-based artist was soon writing with pop’s A-listers — from Britney Spears to Justin Bieber and Ed Sheeran, producing songs that gave the world insight into the contours of the biggest star’s internal worlds. 

"I'm grateful that I've been able to work with artists that allow the space for vulnerability and for authenticity, and for us to be able to speak openly and honestly about things we're going through," Michaels tells GRAMMY.com.

With a knack for emotional precision and complexity, Michaels has been trusted to transmute icons' revelatory moments into song: post-divorce comeback anthems, breakup bangers, even apologies. You’d be hard-pressed to find a songwriter better able to spin pain into a punchline than Michaels.

It’s one of many reasons Disney tapped her to score Wish, a recently-released mega musical feature that’s been chosen by the Studio to celebrate their 100th anniversary. Her idiosyncratic and confessional style lends a fresh perspective to protagonist Asha, while the songs remain rose-colored, dreamy, heart-lurching and classically Disney.

At age 30, Michaels is the youngest ever songwriter to score an entire Disney feature. But that's not her only major accolade: Michaels has been nominated for three GRAMMY Awards, most recently for Marren Morris' "Circles Around This Town" — which was given the nod for Best Country Song at the 2023 GRAMMYs. At the 60th GRAMMY Awards, Michaels was nominated for Best New Artist.

The phenom spoke with GRAMMY.com about some of the hits that made her one of the industry's most in-demand writers — and led to her biggest gig yet.  

"Sorry" - Justin Bieber (2015)

I had met a producer named Josh Goodwin, and he had asked for us to write some songs and see what we could come up with.  We had written two songs, and one of them I don't think ever saw the light of day. The other was "Sorry." 

"Used To Love You" - Gwen Stefani (2016)

I was asked to do some sessions with Gwen and my friend Justin Tranter. It was my first session with her but not his, so they had already known each other.

I wasn't entirely sure what I was gonna walk into or what she would feel comfortable talking to me about. And she was just so open and so lovely and vulnerable. She had these journal entries; in the midst of all of these thoughts and feelings she’d written down she had said: “I don't know why I cried, but I think it's because I remembered for the first time since I hated you that I used to love you.” She kept on reading from her journal and I stopped her and said "No, no, no, that’s a song." So we wrote it and it was just beautiful, she was very happy with it.

Every session is different, every artist is different, everybody writes differently. So sometimes I'm not sure what role I need to take that day. Gwen was very much in control of her narrative and vision, and what she wanted to talk about, so I just followed her footsteps.

I'm not really one for small talk. I think that's why I am still here. I like to get down to the heart of somebody and I know that takes a lot of trust. I'm grateful that I've been able to work with artists that allow the space for vulnerability and for authenticity, and for us to be able to speak openly and honestly about things we're going through.

I don't really have any qualms with walking in a room and being like, "Okay, but how are you really doing?" Not the L.A. version of how are you doing. Like no, how are you actually doing?

"Slumber Party" feat. Tinashe - Britney Spears (2016)

I met her [Britney] after writing a song that she liked, and then we started writing together. 

That was pretty surreal. I don't really fangirl a lot; I've been in enough rooms with people to know that we all laugh the same and cry the same and bleed the same. But then I remember hearing Britney sing this into the microphone for the first time and I just began melting into the floor, in shock and awe. 

I’d done something like eight songs for the album, and writing with her was so special. She has pop melodies wholly ingrained in who she is, so everything that she's saying just sounds like the perfect pop song. She also had her own narratives and she knew what she wanted to write about. We would literally just pull the microphone up to her face so she could sing melodies and we would write songs according to all the melodies and just go from there.

I remember just writing all the time and trying to find a sound that she felt suited her best. A I knew she wanted to do things that still had some vulnerability, but she's Britney Spears — she wanted to have a really fun pop record also. So we tried to cater to that as much as we could.

"This Wish" (2023)

This was the first song I wrote for Wish and it was the first song to come out for the movie. I was called in 2020 by [Walt Disney Music President] Tom McDougall and he asked me if I would like to try to write a song for a new movie, but didn't tell me that it was for the 100th anniversary of Disney's animation movies. Off of this little sort of blurb that he had sent me, I wrote this song about hope and being courageous, and taking a chance and being brave. I thought that was just such a beautiful message.

If he had told me that it was the 100th anniversary, I probably would have been really stressed out. I'm a Disney fan. I've been a Disney fan since I was a kid; I love Disney songs. And so there was already that added pressure to make something that's going to stand the test of time. But I also think that because I grew up with [Disney] it is probably in my psyche more than I even know. And so I wanted to make a song that felt really classic and really powerful and really beautiful, but also still sounded like something that I would write.

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016
Kendrick Lamar

Photo: Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016

Upon winning the GRAMMY for Best Rap Album for 'To Pimp a Butterfly,' Kendrick Lamar thanked those that helped him get to the stage, and the artists that blazed the trail for him.

GRAMMYs/Oct 13, 2023 - 06:01 pm

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

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He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea
Franc Moody

Photo: Rachel Kupfer 

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A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea

James Brown changed the sound of popular music when he found the power of the one and unleashed the funk with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag." Today, funk lives on in many forms, including these exciting bands from across the world.

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:23 pm

It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage
Billy Idol

Photo: Steven Sebring

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Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage

"One foot in the past and one foot into the future," Billy Idol says, describing his decade-spanning career in rock. "We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol."

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:19 pm

Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bamback in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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