"There are things that just cannot be taken away from me," says JoJo. "And that's my history, my voice, my spirit." 

Over the years, that's exactly what the pop star has reinforced, though her approach—always using her voice, her spirit—took a lot of strength and resilience. In an age in which seemingly everything is available at the tap of a finger, JoJo’s first two albums remained absent from the world, as if lost in a patch of quicksand in the music streaming universe. And while dedicated fans of the 28-year-old pop star’s 2004 debut, JoJo, and 2006 followup The High Road, certainly felt their absence, the voice behind them, unable to share her music with the world, felt that loss more deeply. 

JoJo signed with record label BlackGround at the age of 12, after having already turned down contracts elsewhere at a younger age. The label was co-owned by Barry Hankerson, ex-husband of Gladys Knight and uncle of Aaliyah, whom he also managed at a point. Hankerson also managed R Kelly and Toni Braxton. The label's output included records from Aaliyah and Braxton, super-producer Timbaland, and R&B singer Tank, among others. But all of those beloved records have been held away from any and every online streaming or purchase outlet. The reasons behind that decision remain unclear, despite many reports attempting to dig into the issue. Many of the artists behind those hostaged records have settled out of court, with confidentiality agreements involved. 

After years with her records suppressed, JoJo and her team came to a settlement with BlackGround in 2014. A deal with Atlantic followed shortly thereafter, but the master licensing for the original recordings for her first two albums remained under BlackGround control. Instead of allowing her songs to remain locked away, JoJo decided to record new vocal takes to slightly altered production. Diehard fans finally able to hear those songs rejoiced, but no one’s spirit was as unfettered as JoJo’s.  

On the eve of Women’s History Month, JoJo spoke with the Recording Academy about her fight to control her own voice, the process of re-recording songs she first released as a young teenager, and the music that comes next.

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Did you always have a sense that you would be an artist or a musician of some kind?

Always. I was such a creative child! I'm so thankful that my mom nurtured that in me and allowed me to be free and to express myself through various different kinds of art—visual, music, dance, and acting. She didn't stifle that in any way. I always knew that I wanted to live a creative life, to not go a traditional route. And I always loved music more than anything. It made me feel so whole, so understood. And when I sang, I felt like I had found something that made me special, and I felt that from a really young age.

What made you start writing? What was the cause of that urgency? 

Even at six years old, I would just be inspired to try and put my own lyrics into melodies that already existed. I started writing at school. I was really lucky to have teachers who fostered my creativity and encouraged me to do extra assignments for creative writing and poetry. That writing turned into songs because I'd like to model what I was doing after songs that I really liked, whether they were Mariah Carey's, Whitney Houston's, or Aretha Franklin's. I was a strangely precocious little girl; I would look at the advertisements in the back of the newspaper for auditions. Somehow I knew that's how you got famous—you had to audition for things. So I was looking for auditions and saying, "Mom, can you take me to New York for this audition? They're looking for kids who can sing and dance and I really want to do that!" I'm just lucky that I had a mom who listened and was willing to take me to those things.

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It’s especially influential to have that maternal support in making that dream feel very realistic as well.

There's honestly no other way I could've been so successful so young. I had been offered record deals from the age of nine years old. It was just that precociousness, that old soul. Nothing about the industry, the music itself, or the expectations scared me, nothing. I was very excited by it all.

How rapidly do you feel your perceptions of the industry changed as you got older?

The more experiences that you have with human beings, the more that you learn, whatever industry you're in. Life is all about relationships. So the more you engage in various kinds of relationships, the more perspective you can take into the next situation. As I got older, I got a little bit more conscious of people. My consciousness evolved and I was less naive.

At this point in your career, do you have a typical way that you like to work? Do you have your own studio, or a place in your home where you like to write, or are you needing to constantly adjust?

I do my best to create an environment wherever I am where I can be free, comfortable, and confident. I really like to live a life that's open and to be inspired by conversations and experiences. Something interesting might happen at any moment, and I'll jot it down. I have tons of notebooks, tons of notes in my phone, tons of voice notes with melody ideas. But over the years, I've really learned to love collaboration. I love getting with a co-writer or a producer, coming to the table with certain ideas or influences and seeing what they have as well. That's really special and valuable to me, especially if we're talking about an experience that we can both relate to. It's cool to see different sides of the same coin and to be able to explore it a little bit. I love the humanness that connects us all. I just try to stay open and keep myself in the flow as much as I can, not being closed off, or afraid, or ashamed, or self-conscious. 

"I feel like I've got my power back and I'm stepping into the fullness of myself."

You've been through hell with your former label, which makes what you said about the importance of relationships so meaningful. I can only imagine that was such a life-changing experience.

It was definitely frustrating to feel like my history was just being swept under the rug. I've been building this career since before I was 12 years old. I feel like I've got my power back and I'm stepping into the fullness of myself. I spent a lot of years feeling like there was nothing I could do, feeling unempowered. It was fulfilling to find a solution—taking action, going back into the studio, re-singing the songs, collaborating with producers to have them remix these tracks, and re-releasing my first two albums. It’s amazing to have my fans understand what that meant and what the time commitment was, and amazing to have them be received the way they were. It made me feel like it wasn't in vain. It was crazy that it got to this point, but I like solutions, and instead of being overwhelmed by what I can't do, I wanted to focus more on what I can do and move forward, because I'm tired of looking backwards.

I wanted to take control of my narrative in a tangible way, and this enabled me to do that. I wanted to put this out before I put out any new music so I could really get in touch with that carefree spirit that I had when I first started recording my first album, before things got really difficult for me in my professional life and personal life. I found my voice again through this process. I've been having conversations with other friends who are also in their 20s, and it seems like there's a similar theme going on: we're all wanting to get in touch with that inner child and to remember how we felt before life got in the way of who we truly are: that fearlessness and that true inner essence. 

Recreating any sort of magical artistic moment is so tricky. Did you just jump right into it?

I just put my head down and did it, and with each song I went back and I had vivid memories of being in the studio the first time. I didn't try to recreate it exactly because I don't sing today like the little girl that I was back then. The voice changed and has more body now than it did back then. I wanted to take where I am now and relate to the songs in a natural way. I really just tried not to psych myself out about it. I tried to be as true as possible. Sometimes it felt like I was covering another person's songs. It was kind of trippy to remind myself that we're one and the same, and to bridge that gap. This is really for my fans, because I saw that people were asking where they could hear my first two albums, and I didn't want it to come across like I was holding them back, or any weirdness like that. I just wanted to feel in control again.

And as a woman in the music industry—or sadly any industry—you must have felt countless pains. But it’s inspiring and energizing that you were able to reclaim that music. How much of your strength was attached to that identity of being a woman in the music industry?

So much! I really needed to go through this in order to get some strength back and to feel like I'm firmly standing on solid ground. There are things that just cannot be taken away from me … and that's my history, my voice, my spirit. In any industry where there's money involved, and ego, I think that it can get very convoluted and challenging. I wanted to remember why I love this, and it's because of how music makes me feel, how I can connect with as many people as possible. It would have been really hard for me to move forward because my spirit was broken through the process of feeling like I was losing my identity.

"I wanted to remember why I love this, and it's because of how music makes me feel, how I can connect with as many people as possible."

Where did you mine the courage from to achieve that? 

Well, I certainly don't think about it as being courageous. I just refused to give up. I wanted to choose to see obstacles as opportunities—and that's what my team and I have done for the past 10 years. Now that I'm free, making a new album, and working on a joint venture with Warner Bros., I'm more empowered and excited than ever. It's constantly checking your mindset, and saying, "Do I want to be depressed about this, or do I want to find a better way to perceive my circumstances?" We have to check ourselves and ask those questions every day, because we're more in control than we think we are. That's what I needed to come to terms with. There were certainly moments where I was in a dark headspace, but that's why you can't do it alone. My fans' support, the way that we are engaged with each other, is invaluable to me. And I wouldn't have continued on in the way that I have if it weren't for them.

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Were there certain things about the process that you were surprised to learn, things that you wish someone would have told you when you were younger?

When I signed my first record deal, I was 12 years old, and my mom read a book called All You Need to Know About the Music Business. I think she learned a lot of valuable stuff in there, but there were also things that were not included in that book. I know that we trusted the people that I was signing business contracts with, and we trusted that they had my best interests at heart and that we were truly like a family. It's important to separate business from family and friends and knowing that you can't trust what somebody says—you need to get it in writing. We didn't understand that I didn't own my voice. I had to get permission to do anything with my voice that could possibly make money for the record labels that I was signed to. They chose many times not to let me do certain things because they wanted more money. I wish we had known to go over contracts with a fine-tooth comb. But to be honest, I don't live my life that way, where I'm looking backwards and thinking what if, thinking in retrospect, because it's just not constructive. So I think about how I can move forward and have more ownership and more empowerment, and encourage young people to think about how much they want to give away of themselves and to be protected.

You're working on new music, pushing forward, focusing on who you are, who you can be. What does that music look like? 

It's really eye-opening to dive deeply into myself and connect with myself in a way that I really never have. I'm stepping out of my comfort zone, sonically, even in the way that I'm singing. I just want to continue to grow. I feel like if I'm not growing I'm dying. That's what's exciting me right now. I have nothing to hide. I want to tell all my stories so that I don't feel ashamed of anything. I've had a lot of experiences as a woman—some good, some not so good. I want to control that narrative because I think a lot of times as women we feel ashamed for things that we've done, and instead of feeling that, I want to connect with others because I think there's strength in being vulnerable. And I want to find that.

Is there something creative that you haven't done yet that you'd still like to do? 

I'm really interested in directing. I would really like to start shadowing directors and getting more involved in that. I'm really inspired by how a lot of artists are being hands-on in that way and have been for a while. I just bought a place in L.A., and I'm really interested in the curation of making that a home and how developing a personal style and an aesthetic is something that can carry you through different areas of your life. 

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Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

Looking for more GRAMMYs news? The 2024 GRAMMY nominations are here!

He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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As Jagged Edge and Nelly asked in 2001, where the party at? On May 6, it's at the Las Vegas Festival Grounds thanks to Lovers & Friends.

The star-studded festival largely celebrates the R&B and hip-hop stars of the '90s and 2000s, with a lineup that boasts Missy Elliott, Mariah Carey, Boyz II Men, Usher, Christina Aguilera, Nelly, and 50 Cent, among countless other hitmakers. With a jam-packed roster, it's hard to believe the fest is only one day. But one thing is guaranteed: it's going to be a day full of bangers.

There's also a good chance that there will be some viral moments from the second annual Lovers & Friends fest. Several of the stars on the bill have delivered some smash hits together, and they may just take the stage together to perform them — whether it's Chris Brown and Busta Rhymes for "Look At Me Now," Frankie J and Baby Bash for "Suga Suga," or, yes, even Jagged Edge and Nelly for "Where The Party At."

Even if you didn't get a ticket to this year's sold-out fest, that certainly doesn't mean you can't get in on the nostalgia. GRAMMY.com has curated a 50-song playlist to highlight all 50 performers on the Lovers & Friends 2023 lineup (which also includes current stars like Summer Walker, Bryson Tiller and Partynextdoor), and it will undoubtedly get you pumped up.

Below, jam out to GRAMMY.com's Lovers & Friends 2023 playlist, or listen to it on Apple Music, Amazon Music or Pandora.

It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bam" back in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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