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GRAMMYs

Whitney 

Photo: Olivia Bee

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Whitney Are Far From The Shallow Now whitney-are-far-shallow-their-sophomore-album-forever-turned-around

Whitney Are Far From The Shallow On Their Sophomore Album, 'Forever Turned Around'

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The Chicago band's sophomore album, out on Aug. 30, has them digging deeper, both lyrically and instrumentally
Jennifer Velez
GRAMMYs
Aug 29, 2019 - 12:13 pm

Indie/country-soul band Whitney won fans over their 2016 debut Light Upon The Lake, which primarily featured songs about heartbreak. They were only touching the surface, though, as their sophomore album, Forever Turned Around (out Aug. 30), has them digging deeper, both lyrically and instrumentally.

"I think we definitely wanted to push ourselves melodically, so it's more playful melodies, and then also we poured over the lyrics quite a bit on this one," vocalist Julien Ehrlich told the Recording Academy on the phone from his home base of Chicago. "I'm proud we were there for the first one as well, but there's just a lot of them that we were kind of the first... I don't know, I guess they seem a little bit more shallow at times."

The new album voyages through the stages of romantic relationships⁠—the moments when you can feel a partner slowly start to pull away, not being able to let go even though you want to give up—yet it also goes beyond the impact time has on a romantic relationship. Forever Turned Around represents the stength of Ehrlich's and lead guitarist Max Kakacek's friendship.

Forming Whitney after the 2014 dissolution of their former band Smith Westerns, Ehrlich says Whitney could only keep going because of how strong his friendship is with Kakacek.  

"The fact that Max and I can accept criticism between us and not let it really get super personal when we're songwriting... I think we're able to continue doing it because we're still friends," he says.

Below, the Recording Academy speaks with Ehrlich about his bond with Kakacek, romantic relationships, recording Forever Turned Around and more. 

Tell me about the first time you two recorded a song together.

Cool. Yeah, it was probably seven or eight months after our band Smith Westerns broke up. It was just a super organic experience, basically. We woke up one morning, I think we were slightly hung over. We were living together, obviously. Max had this old tape machine called a Ross—the brand was Ross. I don't remember the model or anything, but yeah, it was a four-track and it wound up on the first record.

Even when you and Max were in Smith Westerns, did you ever talk about breaking off to form your own project?

No, I think that's probably why that the band was successful because we didn't really have an agenda. I mean, we always knew that we were really close friends. I don't know. I'm sure it was in the back of our heads that we could one day write these things together. But I think not forcing it and letting it come along in an organic way, it was really, really important for us. It was really just a friendship thing and then it just turned out to be a good combination. I think we're able to continue doing it because we're still friends.

Why the name "Whitney"?

You remember at the time of... I don't even know when the reissue was put out, but Light In The Attic?

Light In The Attic, that re-release, I think his name was "Lewis" or something. I think he has a pretty interesting backstory. But yeah, I think we were just really into making a record that we thought sounded like something that a kid would find, you know, 40 years from now or something. And then we just thought Whitney was a catchy name.

[Editor's Note: Ehrlich is describing the Light In The Attic 2014 reissue of Lewis' L'Amour, which originally came out in 1983.]

Tell me about the experiences that formed Forever Turned Around. What inspired this latest album?

As far as the arrangement and the tools that we used and sound that we found on the first record, we were still very inspired by it, so it's not like I started singing in a completely different way. It's not like we were every thinking about doing like stents or anything on this record.

I think we were more so inspired by just pushing our songwriting to another realm, I guess. We were super inspired by Neil Young and specifically Live at Massey Hall 1971, that live record of his. When were writing the song, we used that as a benchmark or something.

How do you feel you've grown as songwriters since the completion of it?

I think we definitely wanted to push ourselves melodically, so it's maybe more playful melodies. And then also we poured over the lyrics quite a bit on this one, which, I'm proud we were there for the first one as well, but there's just a lot of them that we were kind of the first... I don't know, I guess they seem a little bit more shallow at times. I just feel we actually needed to make sure that we resonated with every single word on this record more than the last one.

The album is hugely about relationships. I feel a lot of times now people, especially at the beginning of relationships, are hesitant to let their feelings out. In "Giving Up" you say, "I can feel you giving up." Do you think being honest with feelings at whatever point in a relationship is worthwhile?

Yeah, I mean I definitely do. I think that song specifically in our eyes was outlining whatever stage in a relationship happens right after the honeymoon phase when maybe doubt or feelings like that would start to creep in into your head. You're like, "Oh, now we're not necessarily on the same exact page all the time anymore." I do feel it is a very important to let your feelings be known in a relationship because that's just communication, but you just need to make sure that you're doing it in a respectful way, obviously.

What's one of the biggest lesson a relationship has taught you?

It is just good to be honest with someone. Just always be honest. If you're trying to... Obviously, feel out the vibe, don't be brutally honest or overshare, or whatever. But if you have something that at first maybe you want to hide from someone, don't do it.

How is it revisiting the moments the album is influenced by live every time you perform?

It's weird because we also just played our first show in a year at Pitchfork Fest [in July.] It's weird. I mean the songs definitely take on new meanings. I'm not really thinking of being in this old relationship that drove me and Max to write the first record. I'm not really thinking about that anymore. But I do think it's important to still put yourself into some sort of a head space that allows you to perform the song in a believable way as well. I'm usually thinking of some sort of maybe personal tragedy or something. 

How was it being back on stage for the first time in years? Did you miss it?

Oh, yeah. I mean, the longer that you don't play in between album cycles or whatever, the more the nerves obviously creep in. But then, once you're halfway through the first song, I was just like, "Oh man." I was like, "Fully, I miss this so much." It just felt so good. Really liberating.

You're a part of a duo and that's two different creative processes. How do you and Max come together to make something interesting to both of you? 

I mean the only way that we could do it is by being really close friends and to be open to criticism. That also goes with honesty as well. The fact that Max and I can accept criticism between us and not let it really get super personal when we're songwriting, it's just not from experience, like even in Smith Westerns, any band I've been in. That's not always the case that people can handle that. I think we've kind of dropped our egos for this project and that that's how we can come together as one.

 How did you get to that point where you just don't take it personally? How do you leave your ego at the door?

I don't know. I feel we realized that we do really just want to push each other to write the best possible thing that we can. I think maybe it was probably early on in the process. Either he came up with an idea and I'm like, "I don't know, I don't know about this. I don't know about like this part of it," or something. I bet he was really mad at first. Or maybe it was me. But then maybe it took a day and then after further discussion, we just realized that if we treat the little part of this idea, it'll just make it a lot better. I think probably throughout writing one of the first songs or something. We probably look back and is like, "Hey, see what happened when you drop the ego or whatever?" 

I want to talk about the space where the albums were recorded. It was in the basement of one of your guitarists where you recorded your first album. Is there a particular reason why you decided to record there again?

It was really just a time thing. We didn't take trips to different studios and stuff, but I think we realized that the way that we work on music, if we were actually just renting out a studio for that long, we would've been broke. Being in a basement or an apartment, or whatever, and being able to wake up every day, simply all day, every day, to be walking around and banging our heads against the walls. Yeah, we just needed that opportunity, like a basement or an apartment or whatever. We'll usually do that.

How important is this space for you when you record?

I can't tell. I mean that's a good question because a lot of times we are so deep in our own heads that our surroundings don't matter. I think it really moreso has has to do with the people in the room. But when it comes time to really record, you know, like drums or the latter stuff, I think at that point a proper recording place can matter. But even then, we can recreate drums and stuff and in our apartments.

What inspired the title Forever Turned Around?

Let me see. I mean, I can tell you what we liked about it the most. I just remember singing forever, thinking about "Forever comma Turned Around." We have been working on this one idea for, I don't even know, the better part of a year and never really figuring out how to complete this song until we stripped away the part that we even liked about it the most.

Then, I came up with a new melody, and the saying, Forever, Turned Around." We all got together, me, Max and the others. We're both just like, "Oh my God, Forever Turned Around." That is the perfect thing. Oh, my God." I think pretty much immediately we knew how much we liked it as a title, because it can have five or six different meanings.

That was also just what allowed us to finish the song, taking away our favorite part of the song, which is such a ass-backwards way to write the song in the first place. It offers perfectly described "Forever Turned Around." Complete confusion the point of... Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I like the term "ass-backwards" but...

There had been a bit of a break between the last album. Have you been writing this album since then? Since after the first one came out or the last one?

There are maybe some really loose ideas that have been around since mid-2016 when the first one came out. But I don't know, for the most part, we would get back home from tour, try to write it in between tours and stuff and it just didn't work for the first years. So I don't feel like we actually accomplished much of anything until the beginning of 2018 or something.

Did the album organically become about love and relationships?

Yeah. I mean Max and I are both still in committed... the same relationships that we were in while writing the record. For about half the songs aren't exclusively about romance or whatever, but we did try to make a point to not just go just go on a hundred percent heartbreak records again.

I think those are the best though.

You think heartbreak records are the best?

Yeah, I think some of the best albums are about heartbreak.

Yeah, and I mean also you can write, you can interpret whatever you want about a lot of these songs too. I feel like definitely tried to make all of the themes and sentiments super universal.

That's totally true. Once you let a song out, it's like it becomes something different to everyone. As a songwriter, are you cool with a song becoming someone else's?

Yeah, I mean that's the whole point, and that was something that we were thinking about the whole time while we were at least writing then. Just leaving, yeah, to leave enough space for the listener, I feel like some of the worst lyrics, if they're way too particular or descriptive, or whatever, it's like, "Oh, I don't want to be exactly where you are." I want to listen to what you're saying, and then also, I guess, adapt it to a memory, a pre-existing memory.

Jay Som On 'Anak Ko': "This Is The First Time Where I Feel Relaxed And Honest"

Alicia Silverstone as Cher Horowitz in 'Clueless' (1995)

Alicia Silverstone as Cher Horowitz in 'Clueless' (1995)

Courtesy Photo: CBS via Getty Images

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How 1995 Became A Blockbuster Year For Soundtracks 1995-soundtracks-film-batman-forever-clueless-waiting-exhale-whitney-houston

How 1995 Became A Blockbuster Year For Movie Soundtracks

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From 'Clueless' to 'Dangerous Minds,' soundtracks were big business in 1995, but the year's hits offered no clear formula for success
Jack Tregoning
GRAMMYs
Aug 9, 2020 - 4:00 am

Mariah Carey, Alanis Morissette, 2Pac and The Smashing Pumpkins all had No. 1 albums in 1995. Despite such hallowed competition, four movie soundtracks also topped the Billboard 200 chart that year. Two were family-friendly Disney behemoths: Pocahontas and The Lion King, the latter still powering from the previous year. The other chart-topping soundtracks, for the Michelle Pfeiffer vehicle Dangerous Minds and the stoner comedy Friday, were no one's idea of kids' entertainment. 

Beyond those No. 1 spots, 1995 marked a fascinating midpoint in a soundtrack-heavy decade. According to a New York Times report, a new release CD that year typically cost anywhere between $13-$19. At that price, a soundtrack needed major star power or an undeniable concept. 

For movie studios and musicians alike, the format was rich with opportunity. However, there was no certain formula for success. Some soundtracks were guided by a single producer, while others drew on a grab bag of then-current songs. Several featured one clear hit that eclipsed the soundtrack, or occasionally the movie itself. For all their differing approaches, the soundtracks of 1995 epitomized the energy and audacity of the decade, while also establishing tropes for the next 25 years. 

The Bodyguard: Original Soundtrack Album (1992) set the bar high for the decade. With a 20-week reign at No. 1, it remains the biggest-selling soundtrack of all time. Whitney Houston performed six songs on the album, including the titanic power ballad, "I Will Always Love You." (At the 1994 GRAMMYs, the track won the GRAMMY for Record Of The Year and Best Pop Vocal Performance, Female, while the soundtrack itself earned the Album Of The Year award.)

While The Bodyguard magnified their commercial potential, movie soundtracks like Quentin Tarantino's Reservoir Dogs (1992) and Pulp Fiction (1994) framed the medium as an artistic showpiece. Throughout the '90s, Tarantino and fellow indie auteurs Paul Thomas Anderson, Richard Linklater and Spike Lee made music a key character in their films. (The latter continues the trend on his latest movie, Da 5 Bloods, alongside six-time GRAMMY-winning composer and trumpeter Terence Blanchard.) Both instincts, for commercial returns and artistic validation, were well-represented in 1995. 

Read: 'The Bodyguard' Soundtrack: 25 Years After Whitney Houston's Masterpiece

Batman Forever (1995) epitomized the big-budget, mass-appeal mid-'90s soundtrack. Spanning PJ Harvey to Method Man, the 14-track set employed some tried-and-true tactics. First, only five songs on the track list appear in the movie itself, ushering in a rash of "Music From And Inspired By" soundtracks. Second, its featured artists largely contributed songs you couldn't find on other albums: According to Entertainment Weekly in 1995, U2 landed a reported $500,000 advance for "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me," an offcut from the band's Zooropa album sessions. 

Most significantly, Batman Forever backed a surprise smash in Seal's "Kiss From A Rose." Originally released as a single in 1994, the ballad blew up as the movie's "love theme." In its music video, Seal croons in the light of the Bat-Signal, intercut with not-very-romantic scenes from the film. Outshining U2, "Kiss From A Rose" reached No. 1 in 1995; one year later, the song won for Song Of The Year, Record Of The Year and Best Male Pop Vocal Performance at the 38th GRAMMY Awards.

Both Bad Boys and Dangerous Minds had their "Kiss From A Rose" equivalent in 1995. Diana King's reggae-fusion jam "Shy Guy" proved the breakout star of Bad Boys, transcending an R&B- and hip-hop-heavy soundtrack. Meanwhile, Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise," featuring singer L.V., the key track on Dangerous Minds, became the top-selling single of 1995; it won the rapper his first, and only, GRAMMY for Best Rap Solo Performance the next year. 

Other soundtracks from 1995 endure as perfect documents of their time and place. Clueless compiled a cast from '90s rock radio to accompany the adventures of Alicia Silverstone's Cher Horowitz and her high school clique: Counting Crows, Smoking Popes, Cracker and The Muffs. Coolio, the everywhere man of 1995, contributed "Rollin' With My Homies." 

From the same city, but a world outside Cher's Beverly Hills bubble, came the Ice Cube- and Chris Tucker-starring Friday. Its soundtrack took a whistle-stop tour of West Coast hip-hop and G-funk via Ice Cube, Dr. Dre, Tha Alkaholiks and Mack 10. True to the era, the music video for Dr. Dre's "Keep Their Heads Ringin'" is half stoner comedy, half cheesy action movie. 

Waiting To Exhale, the 1995 drama directed by Forest Whitaker, boasted a soundtrack with a clear author. Babyface, the R&B superproducer with 11 GRAMMY wins for his work with the likes of Boyz II Men and Toni Braxton, produced the set in full. Following Babyface's co-producer role on The Bodyguard soundtrack three years prior, Waiting To Exhale featured two new songs from the movie's star, Whitney Houston. 

Read: 'Score': Soundtracks take us on an emotional ride

Houston's "Exhale (Shoop Shoop)" and "Why Does It Hurt So Bad" led a track list that also featured Aretha Franklin, TLC, Chaka Khan, Mary J. Blige and then-newcomer Brandy. A powerful showcase of Black women across generations, the soundtrack has prevailed as a standalone work, going on to receive multiple nominations, including Album Of The Year, at the 1997 GRAMMYs. In a crowded year for soundtracks, which also included Dinosaur Jr. founder Lou Barlow's work on Larry Clark's contentious Kids, Waiting To Exhale demonstrated the power of a singular vision. 

For the most part, the soundtracks of 1995 tried a bit of everything. The previous year, The Crow: Original Motion Picture Soundtrack went all-in on covers, including Nine Inch Nails overhauling Joy Division's "Dead Souls." That trend continued into 1995, from Tori Amos covering R.E.M.'s "Losing My Religion" for Higher Learning to Evan Dando's update of Big Star's "The Ballad Of El Goodo" in Empire Records to Tom Jones gamely taking on Lenny Kravitz's "Are You Gonna Go My Way"' for The Jerky Boys movie. (Is there a more '90s sentence than that?) 

Elsewhere, the Mortal Kombat soundtrack blended metal and industrial rock (Fear Factory, Gravity) with dance music (Utah Saints, Orbital). For every Dead Presidents, which zeroed in on '70s funk and soul, there was a Tank Girl, which threw together Bush, Björk, Veruca Salt and Ice-T to match the movie's manic tone. 

Continuing from their '90s winning streak, grown-up soundtracks have proven surprisingly resilient. In an echo of Babyface's role on Waiting To Exhale, Kendrick Lamar oversaw production on 2018's chart-topping, multi-GRAMMY-nominated Black Panther: The Album, uniting an A-list cast under his creative direction. On the same front, Beyonce executive-produced and curated The Lion King: The Gift, the soundtrack album for the 2019 remake of the Disney classic, which spotlighted African and Afrobeats artists. In 2016, Taylor Swift and One Direction's Zayn recorded "I Don't Wanna Live Forever (Fifty Shades Darker)," pitching for the movie tie-in bump enjoyed in 1995 by Seal and Coolio. (The millennial stars stopped short of including scenes from the movie in their music video.) 

Like Batman Forever back in the day, the DC Universe continues to put stock in soundtracks. Both Suicide Squad (2016) and its follow-up, Birds Of Prey (2020), are packed tight with to-the-minute pop, R&B and hip-hop. Each soundtrack reads like a who's who of the musical zeitgeist. In 1995, Mazzy Star, Brandy and U2 grouped up behind Batman. In 2016, Twenty One Pilots, Skrillex and Rick Ross powered the Suicide Squad. In 2020, everyone from Doja Cat to Halsey to YouTube star Maisie Peters form Team Harley Quinn. 

As 1995 taught us time and time again, nothing traps a year in amber quite like a movie soundtrack. 

How 1995 Became The Year Dance Music Albums Came Of Age

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The Joy Formidable 

Courtesy of Corona Capital

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The Joy Formidable To Release Anniversary Welsh EP exclusive-joy-formidable-celebrate-10th-anniversary-debut-ep-welsh-version

Exclusive: The Joy Formidable To Celebrate 10th Anniversary Of Debut EP With Welsh Version

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The Welsh trio sit down with the Recording Academy in Mexico to talk 10th anniversary of 'A Balloon Called Moaning' and more
Jennifer Velez
GRAMMYs
May 16, 2019 - 4:46 pm

It's been 10 years since Welsh alt-rock band The Joy Formidable released their first EP A Balloon Called Moaning. No small feat, the band is celebrating with a project unlike any other they've done before.

"Instead of re-releasing [the album,] we recorded it in Welsh," Vocalist/guitarist Ritzy Bryan told the Recording Academy.  "We're excited, it sounds beautiful and it brings back a lot of memories."

The band, whose latest album is Aaarth, says their love of music and frienship is what has kept them strong this long.

"It's actual friendship, and caring about each other and also the music, absolutely the music," bassist/vocalist Rhydian Davies said. "I think when we get on stage and we're playing what we're playing, we forget about everything and enjoy the moment and it's not because of business."

The Recording Academy talked with the charming trio after their set at Corona Capital Guadalajara in Mexico about more details of their Welsh release, how important personal songwriting is to them, what's next for them and more. 

Tell me, how does it feel to be in Mexico?

Rhydian: Hot.

Ritzy: It's been a little while. I think we were here in 2012. It's been seven years and we had a really lovely time last time that we visited. So I think we've been just excited to come back and hoping and kind of, I feel a little bit torn, I wish we'd been back more but, no point in having regrets. Hopefully we can come back more regularly from now on.

Rhydian: There are so many things that get in the way unfortunately, you know? We'd like to go everywhere on every album cycle but, certain things come in the way; logistics or whatever it is, personal circumstances, but, It's just nice to be here we've not been to Guadalajara before.

You're celebrating 10 years together this year. What is the glue that keeps you together?

Ritzy: I think a lot of respect for each other, good communication and, I think, all of us have got quite different personalities, and just over time you learn how to I suppose just build, inspire each other, how to still have a sense of humor, how to still be really good friends but, we're all quite different people. Over time we've just created this dynamic that feels very intuitive and very, I don't want to say easy, 'cause we fight as well you know.

Rhydian: It's friendship and love isn't it?

Ritzy: Yeah.

Rhydian: Friendship, love and respect comes from that because you spend 24/7 with someone, you're bound to have some arguments and how'd you get over that? It's love isn't it? It's actual friendship, and caring about each other and also the music, absolutely the music. I think when we get on stage and we're playing what we're playing, we forget about everything and enjoy the moment and it's not because of business. We are not doing it just because we want to be famous or it's like I'm getting paid at the end of this so those are pretty major things I think. Don't do music if you doing it for those reasons, that's my opinion. 

Matt: Rhydian Davies with his opinions (all laugh)

Where do you get your inspiration from? I mean you have made music for so long, where does it come from constantly?

Ritzy: It comes from the smallest little thing that happens, maybe. Just you see something that triggers or it makes you feel something and it can go from there, something as simple as nature or just a moment in time watching something through the window, walking down the street to something much more expansive, where you just feel like you need to get something out, you have a story to tell, or you feel like you need to share something that has happened to you good or bad. I think it could be—

Matt: Could be anything—

Rhydian: It could be very personal.

Ritzy: Yeah very.

Rhydian: Because it's been something cathartic for us as well, trying to get over things. You know, there's been things, traumas and fear and into sometimes, what would you call it, mental problems, mental issues, which is obviously something that affects so many people, and we don't like to talk about it but, I think whatever you talk about, you can't help but put your personal element on it because it is obviously how you see the world, isn't it? The personal is always, I think, a really big part of this band. It's not like trying to fit in lyrics to go "DA DA DA" so it sounds nice at the end. "In the air, we're gonna fly, I feel so high," and that's fine. There's a place for everything isn't it? But, I do feel like it's also been a benefit for us to also talk about something that actually means something personal you know?

Matt: We've also got a song about a cactus.

Corona Capital's mission is to bring more international music to Mexico, what does it feel, for you, to play in a new city? To get your music in a new place?

Ritzy: I don't think we ever get in a place all weary. It's not like we wake up in the morning and we're like, "Uh, Where are we? It's fucking ground hog day". That isn't what drives our band or us as individuals, we still are hungry to play music, we are still excited to wake up in a new city but—

Rhydian: You know, we love to play anywhere. New city, old city, we are always excited to go back.

Matt: The key thing is your message is in there, you ask about lyrics and I don't think it's just the lyrics as well as what your message [is], I think.

White Lies Talk Touring Mexico, 'FIVE' & Why Friendship Is The Key Ingredient To Band Longevity

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

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Quarantine Diaries: Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward quarantine-diaries-rosehardt-playing-his-new-piano-lauren-ruth-ward-dancing-emo-music

Quarantine Diaries: Rosehardt Is Playing His New Piano & Lauren Ruth Ward Is Dancing To Emo Music

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As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rock the music industry, GRAMMY.com reached out to musicians to see how they were spending their days off the road
GRAMMYs
Nov 19, 2020 - 1:08 pm

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rock the music industry, GRAMMY.com reached out to a few musicians to see how they were spending their days indoors. Today, we have a special bi-costal edition, with Brooklyn-based Rosehardt and Los Angeles-based Lauren Ruth Ward, two artists featured in Dr. Martens Presents: Music & Film Series, sharing their Quarantine Diaries.

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

Rosehardt, Brooklyn

[8:45 a.m.] On occasion, I'll wake up and my hair will be shampoo commercial voluminous. I don't try and explain it, I just show gratitude by continuing to care for it like my mama taught me.

GRAMMYs

[9:30 a.m.] We made cold-seared salmon last night. Hella tasty. I put the leftovers into an omelet. Also hella tasty. Additionally, if one can have toast with jam with breakfast, and one can also have toast with peanut butter with breakfast, then logically one can have a PB&J with breakfast. Don't @ me.

GRAMMYs

[12 p.m.] Today was a very special day.

GRAMMYs

[12:05 p.m.] A very, very special day.

GRAMMYs

[12:45 p.m.] Not only did the American people make the right choice at the voting booths, but I became the proud owner of this gorgeous piano. It was given to me by the sweetest woman from Craigslist (!!!).

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[1 p.m.] Seriously, if you want a piano and have room, peruse the free section on CL, you'd be surprised. I was so tremendously fortunate to not only find this piano in amazing shape, but I couldn't have asked for a better CL experience. Her only stipulation was that it went to someone who would put it to use and das me. Thank you, Julia from Craigslist.

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[1:30 p.m.] This is my cat Ishmael. I don't usually let him in the studio but I was feeling gracious and he was meowing incessantly.

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[4:45 p.m.] This is Alex, the mysterious piano tuner my roommate recommended who not only does a great job tuning, but always obliges when asked to play a little when he's finished. I really wish you could hear this photo.

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[5 p.m.] I plunked around on the beauty for a minute and now it's loaf time. Ish loves loaf time. We all love loaf time.

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Lauren Ruth Ward, Los Angeles

[8 a.m.] Wake up and caffeinate. We have an espresso machine with a milk steamer, the whole shebang.

[8:15 a.m.] Check in. Look at my calendar and make sure my schedule is realistic. My friend Emma and I call ourselves The Over-Committers Committee (lol). I drink my coffee on my porch, sometimes journal and send out confirmation texts to hair clients and anyone I have plans with.

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[8:30 a.m.] I pull myself away from my phone—I have a timer on my social apps to keep me from mindlessly scrolling! Depending on the day, I will do Patreon duties, Pullstring Vintage work or merch fulfillment. All of these are truly exciting and inspiring.

On Patreon, I post behind-the-scenes videos, and photos on my private Instagram. I also chat with fans about their week and if they relate to what I've shared. This kind of connection with them has kept me sane. I also get to "see" two of my Patron tiers monthly on a Zoom hang. I also spend this time prepping monthly mail-out incentives.

Pullstring Vintage is my new baby! After a buying trip, I wash all the items. Some need extra love—bleaching, tie-dying, studding or button, hem or zipper repair. Then, I take photos of all garments with my friend Zoë. Prior to posting, I take measurement photos and create descriptions for each garment. I then post and repost and chat with my sweet vintage-loving supporters. On drop days, I stay tethered to my assistant, Ivy, who takes care of sales via DM. Mondays and Fridays are post office days. I put thank you letters and pressed flowers go into every package (I love this part). We then DM everyone their tracking number along with another thank you.

Merch fulfillment! I sell 14 different items on Bandcamp. They have slightly different packaging processes but everything gets autographed, thank you carded and, you guessed it, pressed flowers from my garden.

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[12 p.m.] After tapping in and out of the above worlds, it's usually lunchtime. I'll have a little something and then exercise! I love walking a couple miles while listening to podcasts (Brené Brown) or audiobooks (currently spinning the autobiography of Malcolm X). Or, if I have less time, I'll turn the heat up in my living room and freestyle yoga with dance and ab work integrated. I always do this to screamo/pop rock bands' albums, something I listened to in high school. Yesterday was Decadence by Head Automatica—totally holds up. If I have even less time, I'll freestyle dance in my front yard for three to four songs—quick and life-changing.

On other days, this is prime haircut time. I prefer to cut in the hours of 11 a.m. to 5 p.m.

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[3:30 p.m.] As I mentioned, on Mondays and Fridays I go to the post office (where I am helped by either Ernie, Adora or Stanley). Other days I'll have a golden light, front yard hang with a friend.

[5 p.m.] I kiss my dog for the seventieth time today.

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[6 p.m.] Pandemic life: make dinner, sometimes simple, sometimes elaborate. I prep snacks and juice my Imperfect Foods produce for the week. Then I hang/watch TV/read/after-dinner walk with my partner. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two over for a drink and a porch hang. Living the dream!

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Days where I have no clients and no pending orders, I either aimlessly craft or I write. Song messages come to me unplanned—this is my way of planning those unplanned creative spurts. I work on songs alone and sometimes with bandmates. The day will go as follows: coffee, podcast while I walk, then get together with either Eduardo for LRW band, Chris for Aging Actress or Andrew for Heaven Electric.

These days are few and usually clumped together. Because I released an album in March and because the music industry has slowed down immensely, I've been treating writing less militantly and been allowing myself to explore other passions.

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De'Wayne Talks "Top Gun," Jimi Hendrix & Radiohead, Finding Himself In L.A.

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PJ Harvey and John Parish perform at Primavera Sound Festival in 2016

Photo by Jordi Vidal/Redferns

News
John Parish On PJ Harvey's Lost Album pj-harveys-lost-album-john-parish-discusses-1996-gem-dance-hall-louse-point

PJ Harvey's Lost Album: John Parish Discusses 1996 Gem 'Dance Hall At Louse Point'

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On the occasion of its recent reissue, we tracked down John Parish to talk about 'Dance Hall At Louse Point' and his earliest memories of meeting PJ Harvey as an ambitious teenager
Zach Schonfeld
GRAMMYs
Nov 10, 2020 - 10:19 am

PJ Harvey rarely looks back. The songwriter’s career has been defined by a restless sense of reinvention, each album cycle accompanied by a fresh persona—the blues roar of To Bring You My Love, or the glossy alt-rock romance of Stories From The City, Stories From The Sea—ready to be discarded at the next creative whim.

But 2020 has been an exception. Harvey has spent much of the year rolling out a vinyl reissue series of her back catalog, along with some accompanying demo albums. The latest vinyl reissue is something of an outlier: Dance Hall At Louse Point, Harvey’s abrasive 1996 collaboration with ex-bandmate John Parish. Harvey and Parish had first met in the late 1980s, when she joined his band Automatic Dlamini. In 1996, they combined Parish’s musical demos and Harvey’s lyrics on an album that would plunge the singer-songwriter into an avant-garde realm of disturbing monologues and banshee-wail vocals.

Credited to John Parish & Polly Jean Harvey, Dance Hall was largely overshadowed at the time by the immense success of To Bring You My Love. In retrospect, it’s an underrated gem and something of a lost album in Harvey’s catalog; as Harvey herself later acknowledged, "People don't even count that, yet that's the record I'm really proud of."

On the occasion of the album’s recent reissue, I tracked down John Parish to talk about the album’s unusual backstory and his earliest memories of meeting Harvey as an ambitious teenager. Since then, Parish has co-produced most of the singer’s solo albums, and in 2009, the pair reunited for a second collaborative record. This interview has been lightly edited and condensed.

At the time you made Dance Hall At Louse Point, you had already known Polly for a number of years. What was your first impression when you first met her in the '80s?

She was like 17 when I first met her. She was coming to see my band, Automatic Dlamini, whenever we played in her local area. We all got to chatting after a gig. A mutual friend introduced us, and then she gave me a couple of cassettes of some of her early songs she’d been writing. They were kind of like folk songs at that time, really. But her voice—it was already there. It was fully formed at that age.

I just thought, "That girl’s got a really good voice, I’m gonna see if she wants to join the band." So I just asked her. When she finished school, she came and joined the band and she played with us for the next three years, before she formed the first PJ Harvey trio.

Was there a moment when you first realized, "This person is extraordinarily talented, oh my God."

I mean, I obviously saw something that was really good there; otherwise I wouldn’t have asked her to join the band. You can’t possibly predict how somebody’s going to develop as an artist. I could see that she had the potential to be great. If I said, "Oh, I knew she was going to be a star"—obviously nobody can know those kinds of things.

Do you have any favorite memories of working with Polly in Automatic Dlamini?

She came in at a point when the original lineup was kind of falling apart. I was rebuilding a lineup, and she was an absolutely fundamental part of that. She’s always had an old head on young shoulders. She was somebody that you could talk to and discuss pretty serious issues. As a teenager, she was very serious. And was quite capable of being able to offer good advice. We started relying on each other.

Was she nervous performing onstage with the band when she first joined?

The first couple of shows, yeah, really nervous. As you would be. But no, she got used to it pretty fast.

Tell me about the origin story for Dance Hall At Louse Point. My understanding is that you wrote those songs while on tour with Polly for To Bring You My Love?

That’s semi-right. It was Polly’s idea. It was after Rid Of Me, before she had started To Bring You My Love. I was teaching a performing arts course at a local college. I’d written some music for a theater production, and Polly came along to see it. She absolutely loved the music, and said afterwards, "Would you write me some music in that kind of vein? That I could try writing words to?" I said, "OK, that would be great."

That’s how we had the idea for the album. I was writing the music for Dance Hall At Louse Point at the same time she was writing the music for To Bring You My Love. I then became involved with [To Bring You My Love], which was obviously a big record. And it involved a big tour as well. Took 18 months of our time. While we were on tour for To Bring You My Love, that’s when Polly wrote all the words. She already had a cassette of the music for the Dance Hall record, which she carried around with her on the tour and then wrote lyrics in different cities. Which is why those cities are referenced on the album sleeve.

Were you hearing her lyrics while she was writing them? Or were you both working in your own separate worlds?

She would sort of drop a cassette into my hotel room and say, "I've got some lyrics for this song." I'd hear them as they were coming in. It was always kind of, "Here you go, here's the lyrics." And it would always be completely done. It was very exciting.

I was reading some old interviews with Polly. There’s one where she describes that record as being a huge turning point for her. What do you think she meant by that?

It’s always difficult to talk about how that is for somebody else. My take on that is—and I know this from myself when I’m writing in collaboration with somebody else—it’s a certain freedom you have that you don’t give yourself if you're writing entirely individually, because you have the weight of the whole thing. When you can share the weight, it eases you up to do things you might be nervous about doing yourself, because you’re not sure whether you’ve gone off a stupid tangent and you’re not seeing it.

You can try those things that might seem kind of wayward. And you have another person that you rely on say, "Oh yeah, that’s great. Push it a bit further." Like I said before, she approaches most things very seriously. Writing particularly so. So I think it probably enabled her to be a bit more wayward than she might have been. When I first heard her vocal idea for "Taut," I mean—the entire delivery of the song was kind of extreme.

Which song are you referring to?

I’m referring to "Taut." Which is quite an extreme performance. A lot of the songs, I would give her a title. So I gave her the title "Taut." She didn’t have to use it if she didn’t want to. Some of the titles she used; some she didn’t. But I think it was also quite freeing to suddenly have a word or a line and say, "What are you gonna come up with for that?"

I’m assuming Polly thinks the same. She might have a totally different reason for saying that was a turning point. It could also be that, up until that point, the lyrics she had been writing—you know, Rid Of Me and Dry—were very personal lyrics. Or they could be read in a personal way, couldn’t they? Louse Point was very much stories and scenarios. You weren’t imagining that Polly was talking about herself in the bulk of those songs.

The vocal performance on "City Of No Sun" is also quite extreme and very jarring. Were you taken aback by her approach to singing this material?

I was a bit surprised. In a good way. I thought it was really exciting. I remember the performance of "City Of No Sun" when we were in the studio. She said, "OK, I’ll record the quiet bits first, then I’ll do the loud bits." So she had the engineer set the levels, doing the quiet bits. It’s quite strange timing in that song, to get everything to line up. She hit the chorus; she had two or three go’s and she kept getting it wrong.

At one point, she got it wrong again and she was so annoyed that she just went straight into the loud bit anyway. We had the mic set to be recording this really quiet vocal, so all the needles shot way into the red. It was on tape, which can really compress those kinds of things.

Is that the performance that is actually on the record? You can hear how it sounds a bit distorted.

Yeah. Because it’s absolutely pushing everything. She didn't mean to record it like that, but it just sounded so great. Of course we kept it.

Whose idea was it to cover "Is That All There Is?" by Peggy Lee?

It was initially done because they needed it for this film [Basquiat]. We really liked the way it came out, so we thought, "Oh, it kind of fits on the record." The recording that’s on the album is actually the first time we’d ever played that song. There were no rehearsals. We didn’t really know what we were going to do. Mick Harvey played the organ, I played drums, and Polly sang.

Obviously, most of her albums are credited to PJ Harvey. On this album, she's Polly Jean Harvey. What do you think is the significance of her changing her billing?

That was absolutely her call. I think she was quite protective of me. She very much said, "I want it to be called John Parish and Polly Jean Harvey, not the other way around." It’s difficult, isn’t it, if you’re an established artist and you suddenly work with someone who’s unknown, or de facto unknown. It’s like, "Oh, PJ Harvey and some bloke" kind of thing. I think she was trying to find the best way of making people realize that it wasn’t another PJ Harvey album. I know that later on, when we did the second collaboration, it was PJ Harvey and John Parish. It in some ways made more sense, but you’re never quite sure how you should go about those things when you’re doing them.

Some articles I’ve read state that the record label, Island, was uncomfortable with the album and believed it to be "commercial suicide." Is there any truth to that?

I’m sure there were people at Island who were a little bit unnerved by it. And by the fact that it was coming out not as a PJ Harvey record, but under a different name, when To Bring You My Love had just been such a relatively commercial success for PJ Harvey. Probably somebody said it was commercial suicide. If they really thought that, I doubt they would have put it out. I think they didn’t really know what it was.

I have to give quite a lot of credit to Polly’s manager, Paul McGuinness. I think if he hadn’t been behind it, perhaps Island Records wouldn’t have gone for it. But Paul heard it and he was like, "This is a really good record." Obviously he had a lot of clout and a lot of credibility with Island.

During this period, Polly was also becoming successful very quickly. Perhaps she was overwhelmed by the expectations from the record label or the degree of media scrutiny. Do you think those factors contributed to her desire to separate herself from the PJ Harvey that people knew?

You’d probably have to ask her. My take would be that it’s not quite as thought-through as that. She doesn’t like to repeat herself. The last thing she would have wanted to do at that time would have been To Bring You My Love 2. Her gut reaction is to try and do something different each time. Which is why I think she’s had such a long, successful career. I think there was a lot of pressure after the first album, Dry—the record company didn’t like Rid Of Me. They didn’t want to have this Steve Albini-recorded, very hard-hitting album. They were hoping for something more commercial, like I would have said Dry was.

If you are able to reinvent yourself each time—which, obviously a lot of artists just don’t have that facility—if you can, it sets you up for a much longer, more interesting career.

The album title refers to a painting. How did the title present itself to you or to Polly?

I was, and I still am, a very big fan of the painting Rosy-Fingered Dawn At Louse Point by [William] de Kooning. I told you I was giving Polly some of the songs I gave her with titles. One of them, which she ended up not writing any lyrics to—the title track from the album—is an instrumental. That was just a title I gave it. There was something about a place called "Louse Point" that sounded sort of desolate and rather unappealing, and I just thought a dance hall—I just liked the atmosphere that the title [suggested].

How would you describe this album’s long-term legacy in Polly’s career? Do you think it’s overdue for more attention?

I mean, I know it’s seemed like there’s a hardcore group of fans that like it very much. In the U.K. and Europe, there were a lot of people [who] liked it pretty much straight away. Perhaps in America it took a little bit longer to find its home. Obviously we never came over, played any shows, did anything in the U.S. at the time of its release. A lot of people talk to me about it 23, 24 years after its release and say they love it very much. I guess it has its fans for sure.

Once this reissue campaign is over, do you think we can expect a new album from Polly next year?

Umm… I don’t know. I can’t really answer that.

Are there any more previously unreleased demos, like the Dry demos, that fans can look forward to as part of this reissue campaign?

Nearly all the albums will come with accompanying demos. Probably the only ones that won’t are our two collaborative albums—the demos would all be instrumental versions of the album, because that’s how we went about it.

What can you tell me about the demos for Is This Desire?

Well, there’s a demo version of "The Garden," which I really, really love. Had it been down to me, I would have said "Put the demo version on the album" when the record came out. Because I just think it’s one of Polly’s greatest demos. Generally, I like the demos for Is This Desire? a lot.

And the b-sides from that record as well—"Sweeter Than Anything," "Nina in Ecstasy." I think there are some really extraordinary songs that didn’t make it onto the proper album.

You and me both. I think "Nina In Ecstasy" should have been on the record. That was my favorite track of the whole set of demos. So I was very disappointed that that didn't make it onto the album.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that track should have been on there. Will those b-sides be included with the reissue package?

Not the initial reissue package, because it’s literally the album plus demos of the album. I might be wrong, but I think there might be some kind of b-sides and rarities thing to come out as another package at some point down the line.

Will you also be reissuing the more recent albums, like Let England Shake and The Hope Six Demolition Project?

I think Hope Six is still available anyway. So I don’t think there’s any point in reissuing that. But I think everything that was unavailable is being made available.

Has Polly herself been very involved in preparing these reissues and overseeing everything?

No, I think she’s delegated to people like me or Head. And she’s delegated the artwork; it’s all the people that did it originally who are working on it again. She’s very good at [delegating].

I’ve always gotten the sense she doesn’t like to dwell on her past work. She’s more interested in doing something new.

As all creative artists should be, I think.

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, The Honorable Music Lover

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