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GRAMMYs

Margo Price

Photo by Bobbi Rich

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The Unbreakable Margo Price unbreakable-margo-price

The Unbreakable Margo Price

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The country singer/songwriter speaks to GRAMMY.com about her third studio album, 'That's How Rumors Get Started', working with Sturgill Simpson and her two heroes, late friend John Prine and his oddball soul-legend pal Swamp Dogg
Dan Weiss
GRAMMYs
Jul 13, 2020 - 9:10 am

At 37, Margo Price hasn't just lived a few lives already. She’s lived a few country singers' lives already, famously pawning her wedding ring to make Midwest Farmer's Daughter, the 2016 album that caught Jack White's attention and then the world’s, with not just the Newport Folk Festival to follow but "SNL" and a GRAMMY nomination for Best New Artist. For someone who survived the death of her infant son, a drunk-driving accident, jail time and homelessness, that's a vast change of fortune. Except fast-forward to 2020 where everything goes wrong no matter who you are, and Price came out of a few-years hiatus to have her excellent new album That’s How Rumors Get Started delayed anew while her husband and fellow musician/collaborator Jeremy Ivey fought a frightening bout of coronavirus right in her home just after beginning to raise their newborn daughter.

Luckily, the new album is a good fit for the holdup, a scorched-earth record that's at least half rock’n’roll on lyrics alone: "Call me a bitch, then call me baby / You don’t know me, you don’t own me," "Sobriety is a hell of a drug," "I won’t forget what it’s like to be poor," and of course, the delectably autobiographical "If it don’t break you, it might just make you rich." The tenderly worded All American Made made its points through typically acerbic country ("Don’t say you love me when you treat me this way," "Pay gap, pay gap, breaking my dollars in half") but the Sturgill Simpson-produced Rumors adds howling guitars returning the White Stripes favor on "Twinkle Twinkle" and the lung-bursting coda of "I'd Die for You," which is exactly what a multivalent songbird sings to her newborn's ailing father during a pandemic. GRAMMY.com spoke to Price over the phone about coming out of this state with sanity (and songs) intact, and her two heroes, late friend John Prine and his oddball soul-legend pal Swamp Dogg.

How is Jeremy doing?

Oh, he's healthy again and we’re really grateful for that.

That's great, I imagine this period was really scary for your family.

It’s been... not ideal for sure. I really hope that we all continue to stay healthy.

Do you feel like you're ready to plug back into music after all this craziness?

I do, I mean, it’s just been a long time coming and if I wouldn’t have gotten pregnant—and you know there would have been a lot of different factors—I would’ve had this out last summer. But I think everything happens for a reason, so we just roll with the punches.

When an album like That’s How Rumors Get Started sits on the shelf for this long, do you start to feel less connected from it? I imagine this year gave you a whole new album to write.

I'm definitely getting ready to, you know, start writing and recording again just to keep myself occupied and whatnot, but I feel like we picked it up, we started learning the songs and we put it back down. It’s still the best thing I’ve ever done, I think, thus far, and, you know, that makes me still feel connected to the songs and confident that it’s gonna hopefully go over well.

All American Made felt like you had a lot of things to say, and Rumors feels like you wanted to show those things rather than tell them. Did you feel like you were doing more dynamic singing or making a louder album?

I knew that I wanted to sonically do something that I'd never done before and use what I’d learned over the past few years being on the road. Having played rock’n’roll music and played in a soul band prior to everybody getting to know me through Midwest Farmer’s Daughter, it’s been interesting to only get put into this Americana category. So I just wanted to do something that was well-rounded. We put a lot of time into doing this album, a lot of care into my vocals, and I would say that Sturgill helped me turn it up to 11.

What was the biggest thing that you learned from working with Sturgill?

I really wanted to record every song that I had at the time, and we did put down like 16 tracks. But he was like, "You should just get something that sounds like they all go together like texturally and as a bigger picture." I think that was good advice, and I feel really good about the 10 songs; they feel like they belong together. It’s not like, oh, you’re skipping over this one track. And the way he had me approach doing my vocals was pretty key in getting the sounds that we got. I don’t like to sing with headphones on—I don’t think anybody likes to hear their own voice coming back at them—so that was an idea of his: To get more of how I sing when I’m just performing on stage, we took the headphones off and just sang in the studio with the track coming back at me at, like, a very low volume. I was just able to belt and hear myself the way that I normally would hear myself.

Like singing in the shower where you can just go at it.

Exactly.

It shows. A song like "I'd Die for You" is a much less muted way to close your album, like "With or Without You" or one of those big U2 ballads.

Oh, thank you, that’s great. I love that reference.

And then you have "Heartless Mind," which sounds like an idea Sturgill would definitely encourage. Was it always planned to be a fast, new wave-y song?

No, I did not picture it coming out like that and I absolutely love it. I was going into the session thinking that that one may be like, a [Pat Benatar’s] "Heartbreaker"-like guitar-driven song and then the synth got on it. It turned out better than I could have expected, with my friend Ashley Wilcoxson on backing vocals, but it's a big sonic change for what usually is behind me. I actually even let [Sturgill] put a drum machine just on the snare head for the choruses; a few years ago I might have said that’s sacrilege. And my drummer Dillon Napier is playing actual drums on it.

It's very in the spirit of Sturgill’s last album, Sound & Fury, which quite a few people compared to ZZ Top, and they are generally considered to be one of the most successful acts to put synthesizers on roots music.

Yeah his album's wild. I don’t think anybody expected it from him. I mean, I didn't expect it from him and I know the motherf**ker. A lot of times I see people working with certain producers because they're hot at the moment, or like, you know, things become really trendy and it's scary to go out there and get out of your comfort zone. But I’d rather make a few mess-ups then go crazy from just regurgitating the same ideas.

Do any of the lyrics on Rumors resonate differently for you now after the events of this year?

There’s moments that have become more powerful. I felt that same thing happened with All American Made because I wrote it while it was an election year but no one was in office, and then… you know. Time always has a way of making things feel more heavy, especially these days. But "I’d Die for You" has become the most important song to sing and feel connected to because of the tornado, and the cancellation that's happening, and people everywhere all over America unemployed and without health insurance. The racism and the division all that’s kind of spinning around. But Jeremy and I wrote that song for each other and for our children.

Certain songs on here are really cathartic to listen to now even if they were written way long ago. Something like "Twinkle Twinkle," where you’re singing "In the good old days, things weren’t really all that good," has me how all these coronavirus deniers will eventually go on to romanticize this period.

Oh, without a doubt. I was talking about that earlier with somebody, about how everything seems like it’s changed but really, all of the fear, and the hate, and the racism those things were all there,  just below the surface. I don't know when we’re going to be able to live the way that we did with, you know, human contact and hugs and stuff like that .

Somehow we got to the point where hugs are in question.

But don’t even come at me with that hand and I've really perfected my handshake.

On "Stone Me" you could be singing about toxic men, or fame, or the completely divided state of society all at once, and maybe those things are inherently connected.

Yeah, it has a double meaning for me. When I first wrote it was about a personal relationship, and the things that happen when you get put up on a pedestal, and then people immediately want to knock you down, and I let it all roll off my back. But it’s very cathartic to write a song. I don’t even ever have to say who it’s about specifically, because it’s about so many people that I've known.

A lot of country artists address things like growing up poor, but they're so associated with conservatism that you get the sense they expect it’s like, just part of dues to be paid. But you sing things like "Pay Gap" that are actually about changing that.

Oh, without a doubt. I mean, that song probably cost me a lot of fans. I had so many people try to argue with me and tell me it’s a myth. As a citizen I have every right to think about the things that affect me and we're all in it together no matter what side of the fence you're on. Everybody wants the same damn thing, food on the table. To would be able to be taken care of when you're sick.

This year is really the test case for that, because you’d think everyone would be able to agree that, like, we all want to be alive, and doing some things that are not too difficult in order to lower that risk. The rebellion against that is really surreal. Have you already begun writing new songs?

My husband’s got an entire album that he’s written. I have, like, starts of songs… I don’t know, six or seven things I'm working on. And then I’ve just been writing and journaling more. It’s important to write your memoir while everything’s still fresh on your mind. Especially now with not being able to go to shows. I’m like thinking back to specific memories and things that happened and just saving it all for a rainy day.

Do you have any plans for live shows again?

I’m really wanting to do these drive-in theater shows. I think that would be super cool. It would be a great way to start back and feel like things are at a safe distance, but who knows what the future holds. I'm just dreaming about a day when I can like, bodysurf across the crowd again. That’s gonna be a long time.

What have you been listening to while you’re stuck at home?

I have been addicted to this new Swamp Dogg record, Sorry You Couldn’t Make It.

I love Swamp Dogg, I actually just ordered reissues of Gag a Maggot and Total Destruction to Your Mind last month.

Yeah, I mean, "Synthetic World"…there are just so many good songs on Total Destruction to Your Mind. Rat On! and that whole album cover. And then I realized that he was putting out this new record, and John Prine sings two duets on it which are amazing. It’s the last thing that John Prine ever recorded.

Wow, I didn’t realize it was the very last thing he ever did.

There's a song on there is called "Family Pain," and it's really cool, like a hip-hop track with a fiddle. I’ve also been listening to Run the Jewels.

I mean, speaking of catharsis…

Yeah, perfect time to put out a political rap album. And of course I’ve been diving super deep into the Bob Dylan and the Neil Young records; the fact that they came out on the same day was pretty spectacular.

If you do any more covers, I definitely vote for Swamp Dogg.

That's a great idea. And Swamp Dogg’s version of [Prine’s] "Sam Stone" is just killer. When I met John I was like, "So tell me about Swamp Dogg." You know they were buddies. It’s really cool to hear them on [2020’s] "Please Let Me Go Round Again." They just are riffing back and forth, really conversational improv. It cracks me up to listen to.

Now I’m gonna have to put that on after we hang up.

I hope you stay well and, yeah, see you next time we get out of this burning trash fire.

Liz Brasher Opens Up About Memphis, Mental Health & Her New "Sad Girl Status" Video

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Joan Osborne

Photo by Jeff Fasano

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Joan Osborne Gets Political On Trouble And Strife joan-osborne-talks-getting-political-trouble-and-strife-singing-jerry-garcia-songs-phil

Joan Osborne Talks Getting Political On 'Trouble And Strife,' Singing Jerry Garcia Songs With Phil & Friends And More

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The GRAMMY-nominated "One Of Us" singer opens up about the "all-hands-on-deck moment" that led her to address current events on her latest LP
Will Schube
GRAMMYs
Sep 17, 2020 - 9:18 am

Joan Osborne is one of those artists you’ve heard before even if you’ve never actively searched for her music. Her song, "One Of Us," written by collaborator Eric Bazilian, is one of those songs that transcends time, space, and individuals. It’s catchy and powerful, and landed Osborne three GRAMMY nominations. Not bad for her first single from her debut LP. Though Osborne, born in Kentucky but residing in New York, has never penned a song as culturally captivating as "One Of Us," her career is a sterling example of craftsmanship and dedication to superior songwriting.

Osborne plays with a number of genres, and on her new LP, Trouble and Strife, she bounces from Americana to bar rock to pop with ease and style. Though the album is her boldest political statement to date, she wanted to blend the serious moments, like the powerful immigration tale, "What’s That You Say," with moments of optimism and celebration. "I really wanted to make this record a fun and joyful album and something you could dance to," she explained to GRAMMY.com. "It's about staying connected with your joy and allowing that to lift you up," she added. As the world continues to crack and we fall under the weight of it, Osborne hopes to be a source of positivity and hope. Though songs like "Hands Off" deal with the prevalent corruption of our modern era, "Never Get Tired (Of Loving You)" is a heartwarming ode to her daughter, and "Boy Don’t You Know" wraps themes of female empowerment and misogyny in society around warm piano chords and silky guitar runs.

Though Osborne's songwriting is subtler and more nuanced than her defining hit, her voice continues to be a revelation. From her days of singing Jerry Garcia songs in the Grateful Dead after the legend passed away to her Bob Dylan covers album from 2017, Osborne continually displays why her vocals are some of the most iconic in modern rock ‘n’ roll. Trouble And Strife is another example of her power and dexterity, a beautiful encapsulation of our times, warts and all.

What is it like releasing a political (and fun) album in this particular cultural climate?

Because of the pandemic, the process that we would normally be going through to release a record and support a record is, of course, different because we can't do any live shows. We can't go to any radio stations in person, and we're limited with the amount of stuff that we can do to promote the record. We're, of course, doing a lot of phone interviews and Zoom interviews and things like that remotely to be safe, but it's not the same as going on a tour and playing your songs in front of audiences and stuff like that. It feels a little weird, a little abstract in that way.

This is not a good thing, but I feel like the record, being a very political record or at least the most political record that I've ever released, it feels like there's an audience that's going to be receptive to it. That's the response that we're getting. People are saying that they're happy to have music that is addressing what's going on in the world. It makes them feel less alone and it can be a useful thing to help to navigate this particular moment. That's gratifying. I'm not happy for the reasons behind it being so relevant, but I'm happy that people are responding to it in that way.

When you are interacting with moments to inspire your songs, like "Hands Off," is it draining being inundated by negativity and awful things happening all around us?

It can be very difficult to navigate a time like this. Every day seems to bring some new crisis and some new disaster. If you have kids, you're thinking about the world that you're going to leave to them. That's a difficult thing just as a person and as a citizen. But as a writer, it lights a fire under you and gives you a lot of energy to put the things that you're thinking and feeling into your music. There's a real urgency that I've felt about having songs like this that address this current moment. It gives you a real push in that direction of trying to wrestle with this moment in a creative way.

Having the platform to be able to illuminate a story like on "What's That You Say," is so important, too. Can you talk about how that song came about?

I'm dismayed by the immigration conversation that's going on in this country right now. I believe that America is great because it's a country of immigrants and because of the mix of all the different cultures and artistic traditions that different groups of immigrants have brought with them. That's why American culture is so fascinating. People bring their different traditions with them and then those different traditions and styles have mixed together and created brand-new forms of art in this country. I think that's part of what makes us an amazing country.

I wanted to write something about a person who has come here and brought the best of themselves to this country and really contributed. And so I wrote this song, "What's That You Say," about this character. There were these moments in the song that were instrumental passages that didn't have lyrics and there wasn't singing. I kept hearing a spoken voice in those passages. I thought, well, why don't I turn the mic over, so to speak, to someone who has actually lived this immigrant journey? That's another thing that frustrates me so much about this issue, is that we talk a lot about immigrants and immigration, but I don't hear a lot of people listening to actual immigrants. I don't hear their stories that much. That's very frustrating for me.

I felt like this would be an opportunity to allow somebody to talk about their experience, someone who's actually lived this experience. I can come at it from an artistic perspective and try to have some connection to someone else's story, but no one's going to tell it like someone who's lived it. That's when I approached this organization called RAICES. I've been aware of the work that they're doing at the southern border, trying to help people who are attempting to immigrate to the U.S. from Central America and Mexico and people who are trying to navigate this really dehumanizing system that is in place at the border and helping them with their legal applications for asylum and things like that.

I called them up and I said, "I'm really a fan of the work that you're doing," and I told them about the song and I asked them if they knew someone who might be interested in telling their story to become a part of this song. They introduced me to Ana Maria Rea-Ventre. She is very much the kind of person that this song is written about. She's someone who came to America as a child and has lived the rest of her life here and has been someone who's contributed to her community. She's this shining light to the people around her. She agreed to tell her story.

When your songs began to take a political angle, did you watch what was happening in the world and think to yourself, "I need to make my next album a certain way"? Or had you already started writing and that's just the way that the songs were taking shape?

It's a little bit of both. I wrote these songs in a big rush in 2018. It was before the most recent disasters, but this has certainly been a rough four years. These things were on my mind and a lot of ideas for songs about the current state of our country and of the world kept coming to me. I feel a responsibility as a citizen, a parent, and an artist to try to do what I can to effect some positive change. As they say, "It's an all-hands-on-deck moment." None of us, I don't think, have the luxury to just sit back and watch it unfold. We have to participate.

There’s a cautious optimism that prevails over the entire album. Is that something you really had to work towards? Or is that your MO as a person?

I've been reading a lot of this writer, Sarah Kendzior. She was one of the people who believed that Donald Trump was going to win the presidency. She's an expert on authoritarian governments and she's brilliant. I don't think I can quote her directly, but she said something about, "I'm not an optimist and I'm not a pessimist. I believe that we have to do the work that we have to do, whether we know what the outcome is going to be or not. There's no guarantee that the work that we have to do is going to bring about the change that we want, but we have to do it anyway."

With the revitalization of the Grateful Dead in this modern era, your time playing with Phil & Friends is particularly relevant. Do you have any fond memories from that era?

I was able to work with the Dead after Jerry Garcia passed away and went on a big tour with them. Then I went on a bunch of tours with Phil Lesh & Friends since then and have a real lengthy connection with those guys and with that music. It's a really interesting phenomenon because you have the Grateful Dead and you have their fan base and then you have this larger jam band scene that has spun off from the Dead and from that world.

I have so many memories. I think I was very nervous before my first handful of shows because I sang a lot of the Jerry songs and I felt like, "Wow, is this audience going to accept me? This girl singer doing these songs or are they not going to accept me?" But the audience was very welcoming. I remember it was my birthday and we were playing part of a five-night stand at Red Rocks in Colorado. I got to sing "Stella Blue" in that beautiful setting. There was this gorgeous moon and it was a clear night and it was just one of those moments where you could have heard a pin drop. The song is so delicate and so emotional and it was this moment that's now frozen in my mind. It's this pure, beautiful moment of being on stage with those guys and performing that song in front of that audience in that beautiful space. It was really transcendent.

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Brandon Stansell

Photo by Spencer & Lloyd Harvey

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Brandon Stansell Talks Emotional Documentary, 'Three Chords And A Lie'

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The Tennessee singer/songwriter talks to GRAMMY.com about capturing the return to his hometown of Chattanooga and the importance of LGBTQ+ representation in country music
Jason Scott
GRAMMYs
Aug 26, 2020 - 9:51 am

"You can hide your scars, ignore your pain / But it all comes out in other ways," weeps Brandon Stansell. An openly gay country star, the Tennessee native first came out when he was 22, and the fallout within his very strict, Southern Baptist family sent him on a path many queer individuals know all too well. While he had already been living on his own at the time, studying at Belmont University, he quickly realized that family is often not defined by blood alone.

With "Hurt People," the title cut to his new EP, Stansell invites the listener to hear his story and fully understand the scope of brokenness out of which he still climbs. "I knew they wouldn't understand, but I told them anyway / And 10 years later, I'm still waiting for time to heal this pain," he sings. "My daddy said I want you to know that we're not proud of you / So, I left home all on my own just like hurt people do."

Stansell draws from a very deep well of pain. Across his four-song Hurt People EP, he wrestles with an upbringing rooted in faith, longing for what could have been ("Like Us"), and finding his own kind of light. Accompanying the project, Stansell, in partnership with OUTtv, returned to his hometown to play his first-ever show there and film a documentary. Three Chords And A Lie features commentary and insight from CMT’s Cody Alan, songwriter Jeffrey James, performer Shelly Fairchild, and various young people from Nashville’s Launch Pad, an initiative to assist homeless youth in the community, particularly LGBTQ+.

"It feels crazy to finally have it out into the world. It was almost a year-ago since we shot the documentary," Stansell recently told GRAMMY.com. "I guess because the world has felt stagnant, it feels like we just did it."

The documentary, filmed in October 2019, doesn’t sugarcoat the truth about coming out in many parts of America ─ depicting some truly heart-wrenching moments in his story. Stansell never shies away from discussing his family, their reactions to his coming out, and the ongoing struggle for self-worth. What is also truly admirable is his willingness to be open and honest on-camera, even leaving in an emotional breakdown while rehearsing with his acoustic guitar.

Below, Brandon Stansell spoke with us about his journey, the new documentary (which premiered Sunday, August 23 at Out Fest), conversion therapy, representation and what's next.

When did you get the idea to film a documentary about your story?

I started writing the EP last May. I had ideas for the project, and I vacillated between doing what I considered a more traditional route where you would pepper songs like "Hurt People" and "People Like Us" across multiple projects so it doesn’t feel like the hammer is falling when you listen to them all in a row. Once I had everything written, OutTV approached me about doing this documentary, and it wasn’t anything I ever thought I would do. With the music I was writing, and the timing of everything, it felt like I was writing this music for a purpose. And it was this purpose. It all felt right to put into one EP. It’s better that way. I have a real passion for talking and writing about queer stories in country music, and you really get that sense when you hear these songs back to back. It doesn’t just feel like a little piece of you. These things have fundamentally changed my life and shaped me into the person I am.

What did you ultimately learn through this documentary process?

I was going through this process of being very hesitant to put this music and documentary out and then just being really ready to go. I obviously shied away from it because it was very personal for me. It’s my life. It’s not a persona or a mask. It’s my world and relationships, and it’s hard for me to allow everyone to have a window into that world. I didn’t really know how else to engender that conversation without talking very specifically and personally about my own experiences. The responses I’ve gotten so far have been ─ I guess I didn’t know what to expect ─ on the positive side of what I hoped for, and that was people feeling like they finally had a voice from someone who had gone through experiences they’d gone through. And they were okay. It didn’t kill them or ruin their lives. We can have these shared experiences, as hard as they are, and still be okay, and better than okay. We can do great things in the world, pursue our dreams, and do all the things we ever wanted to.

"Ever since I came out, I decided that I was going to go and try to pave a path for people like me and use my experiences to make that an easier path to take."

For a lot of queer people, and specifically for me, I always wanted to be a singer and songwriter. I didn’t think these would be the things I would write about. I don’t think anyone hoped for that, but when I came out, I had an experience that fundamentally changed me. It’s just part of my story now and because I see it reflected in kids across the country, I thought it was important for me to share in an effort to help people feel not so alone and to help families with people like me know what this process is like. It can be good or it can be bad, depending on how you react. That’s my hope for the project.

You've said you didn’t want to sugarcoat the truth about your experiences. In one particularly moving moment, you break down while playing guitar. Did you have any reservations about showing such raw vulnerability and pain?

I think anyone that is putting themselves into a public view wants to portray themselves in the very best way they can. You don’t take an ugly picture of yourself and go, "Oh, I can’t wait for the world to see!" [Laughs.] It’s just not the natural thing to do. But I realized that there’s more important things going on than how I am personally perceived. That is the thread that runs through this entire documentary. There are so many people in this world that have these shared common experiences but for one reason or another, we get shamed into not telling our experiences, and we can’t ever grow from that. We can’t ever be better if we don’t talk about the things that have happened. At some point, I had to look at scenes like that breakdown and realize that I don’t look great, no, and makes me look like a complete mess, yes ─ but can it/could it help someone, yes! I think it could. So, it’s worth it. That’s what I had to lean into.

In the documentary, you also mention conversion therapy and how "they think they’re doing the right thing." From your perspective, how has such religious beliefs led to such extreme ways of thinking?

Thankfully, specific states in this country are coming to their senses in that conversaion therapy is nothing more than child abuse. It is emotional abuse. Just plain and simple. No matter which way you cut it or what techniques you use, you’re trying to convince a person that what they are is wrong and bad and needs to be fixed. That is emotionally scarring to anyone who goes through such "therapy." When I was coming out, the people in my world wanted me to do that. There were a few Christian conversion therapy camps, including the Exodus Ministry and Love Wins Out, and thankfully at that point in my life, I had the foresight to know it was only going to make things worse for me. My only reason for wanting to do anything like that was not so I would not be gay anymore but so I could stay connected to my family.

Now, looking back, we're 10 years past that and a lot of these places have closed down. Some states have banned this kind of therapy. It’s part of my story, so I talk about it. It still exists in places, and some people still consider it to be a legitimate thing. And it’s not and shouldn’t be.

You and your mother share an embrace at the very end. Have you found this documentary to be an important step forward for your relationship?

My goal was that this would facilitate healing. It has been a conversation I don’t think we could have otherwise had. It’s done good in my space. I have stepped back and said, "There’s nothing I can do to change the minds of people I love. I can’t do that. I can only control and me and my world." Ever since I came out, I decided that I was going to go and try to pave a path for people like me and use my experiences to make that an easier path to take. If any of them want to come along for the ride at some point, I’m open arms. That’s kind of where I’ve always been and where I am now.

Nearly two years following the groundbreaking CMT premiere for your "Hometown" video, has there been a weight of responsibility for you as you've moved forward?

I don’t feel a weight on me. I have only felt that my only responsibility is to be authentic to who I am and share my story as honestly as I can. I feel like I’ve done those things. I don’t know what people expect of me, but I think that what I can say is that I’m going to continue doing the things I’ve always done, which is make music I think people will want to listen to and is reflective of me and proud of. That’s been my road from the beginning and where I see myself continuing to go.

You've also spoken on the importance of representation, noting you didn't have that growing up watching CMT music videos. What's it been like for people to reach out to you now with the understanding you’re giving them that bridge?

You know, it’s been different over the years. When that video came out, the one story that’s stuck in my head is I had a guy message me, saying, “I saw your video and sent it to my mother. She called me, and I got the apology I never thought I could ever get from her.” It was such a weird, full-circle moment because I wrote that song out of a pretty deep, personal place and shelved it for a long time. I didn’t think anyone would be able to find themselves in it. When I finally put it out, I realized that not only did so many other people find themselves in the lyrics, but it was something that was being used as a tool to start bridging the gap. It made me proud of the work and wanting to do more.

Do you think mainstream country music will ever see an out gay superstar?

Yes, I do. I've said for years that people are more open than we give them credit. We just have to give them the chance to show us. Ever since I started making music, I have had nothing but good things said about me and to me. I think with the work that we’re doing ─ queer people, women, and people of color ─ in country music, we’re setting the stage for anyone who has a dream of being a superstar in this genre will be able to with no inhibitions. They will be able to see themselves, from the time they’re little kids to making moves. And that’s exciting. I grew up watching and loving CMT. I would dance around in the basement to Jamie O'Neal's "When I Think About Angels." I love that station, but I also knew I was gay when I was six. So, I lived in this split world where I wanted to so much be a part of this country world, but somewhere in me I didn’t know if that would be able to happen. I think it’ll happen, as soon as people start feeling like they’re represented in the genre.

Have you already been writing for the next project?

It’s pretty much written. I’m excited about the new project, because it’s upbeat and fun. So… it’s different. [Laughs.] It’s going to be another EP. We’re currently vacillating between a five- or six-song EP, but we’ve already started working on it. I’ve been recording through quarantine and doing scratch vocals on an iPhone. It’s been an experience. I’ve been doing some writing by myself and then some Skype writing, which I had done before since I’ve been living on the West Coast for six-plus years now. I would Skype write with people in Nashville all the time. It didn’t really feel like anything too new to me.

Brandon Stansell Takes Us To His "Hometown" In Special Pride Month Edition Of Press Play

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Rita Wilson

Photo by Robert Trachtenberg

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Rita Wilson On Bold Country Songwriting, Emotional Labor & Rapping To Naughty By Nature

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The actress, producer and singer/songwriter is done talking about coronavirus and ready to get back to her first love: music
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Jul 29, 2020 - 1:01 pm

Rita Wilson is sick of talking about being sick. As the first public figure to be diagnosed with Covid-19 back in March (along with her husband Tom Hanks), the actress, producer and singer/songwriter probably hasn't been able to escape questions about the mysterious illness, which, in 2020, exploded to pandemic levels and has more or less shut down the entire entertainment industry. 

What Wilson would much rather chat about, understandably, is the music she's released this year—gorgeous, gentle acoustic ballads that recall her greatest influences: pop-country trailblazers like Dolly Parton, Jessi Colter and Bobbie Gentry. Though she only just released her fourth studio LP Halfway To Home in 2019, Wilson has kept busy: recently she unveiled the single "Everybody Cries," which accompanies the Rod Lurie war drama The Outpost. She also dropped the poignant "Where's My Country Song," which pays tribute to the "women out there quietly doing jobs that sometimes we just are aware of, but we aren't really paying attention to," as she tells GRAMMY.com. 

You may have also caught Wilson in a recent viral video, where she's expertly rapping to Naughty By Nature's 1992 hip-hop classic "Hip Hop Hurray." Though it was originally something she had to practice for a part in a movie, the video was so popular that Wilson teamed up with Naughty By Nature for a remix, with profits being donated to MusiCares' Coronavirus Relief Fund. Once touring is allowed to resume, she says, you should definitely expect to see her perform "Hip Hop Hurray" live with the trio. 

Below, Wilson opens up about her most recent musical endeavours, what draws her to the country genre and how "Where's My Country Song" ties into a larger conversation about women's emotional labor. 

You recently released the single "Everybody Cries," which appeared in the film The Outpost. Was that song written specifically for movie?

Yes, it was. How it happened was the director Rod Lurie reached out to me because he had heard other previous albums that I had done and felt that the movie needed a female voice and he felt that it might be possible to fulfill that vision, which was really an honor.

I was able to see a little bit of the film because the song is used in the body of the movie. And then again, later in the end credits. I think [Lurie] also was looking for a female perspective on things. What was absolutely so sad was that when Rod was doing the movie, he lost his son, and here he is doing a movie about these young men who lost their lives. And I think that very much connected him to the story on an even deeper level. And then what I responded to was just being a mom [myself]. You raise these children, whether they're male or female or whatever gender they identify with, and you try to make them good and courageous and strong people. You try to keep them safe. And then at 18 they can make their own decisions and their own choices.

When you think of all the service men and women who have given their lives for our country and for our freedom for our democracy, I also think about the mothers and wives and daughters who had to say goodbye to their loved ones, just sending them off to serve.

I think the movie is really beautiful and I'm really so, so grateful to be a part of, of it in any way, particularly with this song.

It is a really beautiful song. Speaking of songs written specifically to showcase the female perspective, I also enjoy your recent single "Where’s My Country Song." The way it describes the average working woman’s experience, it reminds me a little of Dolly Parton's "9 to 5."

That's a huge compliment. Thank you. I'll take that.

You’re welcome! You've said in previous interviews that this song was inspired by your mother. Do you feel like maybe it holds a special kind of resonance now?

Well, actually the original idea of the song was inspired by a single mom that I know who's working really hard and her mom helps her raise her kids. And then I started thinking about my mom because I could not have also raised my kids doing what I do without my mom and my dad. So many times, people will say things like "what do you do?" And I've heard women say, "Well, I'm just a mom and that's me." It's like what you should say‑I mean, I don't know what they should say‑but [as a mom] you are probably given the most important job of your life. You’re trying to raise these humans, good humans and put them in the world and carry on.

Then that led me to all the women that are out there quietly doing jobs that sometimes we just are aware of, but we aren't really paying attention to because they're the jobs that get us through our lives. Let's say it's somebody who's working in a warehouse or somebody who's working in an office for your bank or somebody who's working at a grocery store or somebody in agriculture, who's making sure our fruits and vegetables are brought to us. Then I read that during the pandemic and the COVID-19 crisis that 75% of essential workers are women. And you look at that and you say, okay, great. That is again, another example of how many important jobs women are tasked with.

And then I also think that aligned with not just country music, but all music, and movies, that women can sometimes be idealized and written about in a way that is wonderful, there's room for everything, but it's not the whole picture. So, I started thinking about, well, where's that song? Where's the song that is talking about those women? I just felt that I wanted to explore that and see what I could come up with.

And I had the title, "Where's My Country Song." I wrote it with Lee DeWyze who won “American Idol” a few years ago. [He’s] a really talented songwriter and an amazing singer. So that's how it evolved. It kind of was a stream of consciousness, and that's how songs happen. That's the crazy thing: I didn't think, “I'm going to set out to write this song.” But when I started looking at all the other women that are out there that don't get the sort of appreciation and sort of thanks and gratitude that they really should get.

Yeah, what's interesting about the essential worker conversation we’re having now is that there’s a lot of performative thanking and acting grateful—billboards, TV commercials and stuff—but what these women really need is a living wage, quality health insurance in case they get sick and guaranteed childcare. They’re looking out for us—what choice do they have? But who is looking out for them?

Exactly. It's sort of like, well, when you look at what women did, even during World War II where they were really influential and important in terms of joining the workforce, when men were all fighting and then when everybody came back from the war, women were sort of displaced again and sort of like, "Okay, thanks for helping out then, but now go back to whatever you were doing." I know so many amazing women who do extraordinary things with so much of their lives and a lot of them just, I never really hear complaints. Women are sort of amazing in that way. They just get to it and do what's required without a lot of whining.

This also ties into the ongoing conversation about emotional labor, both in and out of the workplace. Have you read very much about that?

What does that mean? Emotional labor.

It's basically like all the unseen work that women do—in the house, as parents, in the workplace. For instance, in relationships, women tend to “manage” the household and “assign” chores to their partners.

Yes! Like, even if I am in a relationship, there's always somebody who's taking on the extra—let's call it home labor or emotional labor. But emotional labor to me says something like you are taking on not just the scheduling, but the wellbeing of people in your life.

Exactly. Or, in the workplace, women colleagues might be expected to organize a party if someone's having a birthday.

Oh, absolutely. I played a character on "The Good Wife." And she was a killer lawyer, killer litigator. And so, I went in my research in killer litigators. This thing came up that I thought was just mind-boggling, which was, this amazing lawyer said that, even though she won all of her cases and she was sought after and she was number one in her field, she still felt the need to bring cookies or cupcakes to a meeting. And that was her way of saying, "Don't be threatened by me. I'm just a woman who really just likes to bring sweets to you. I'd rather be doing that." Which I think is so... It's so crazy that women even have to think about that.

Speaking of roles, I know that you you've done music for a long time, but I think the first time I personally realized that was watching you play Marnie's mother on "Girls." You kind of hop on stage with her and try to salvage her own show.

So much fun.

Did you have any input on how your character would sing?

What I loved about that character was that she was such a narcissist and it didn't really matter if she was going to be embarrassing her daughter. It was just literally like, give me more attention. And so that's why that character was so much fun to play. And that gift that Lena Dunham gave me.

You also have a collaboration out right now with Jimmie Allen and Tauren Wells, "When This Is Over." How did that come about?

Jimmy’s an amazing artist. I became a fan of his just by hearing him on the radio. And then he reached out and said, "listen, I'm doing this collaborative EP. Do you want to be a part of it?" I said yes, not even knowing what the song was. And then he sent the song and I was like, "dang, this is a really good song!"

In terms of genre, your music is very much aligned with country. What draws you to country music? Who did you grow up listening to?

I was lucky enough to be exposed to all genres [and artists] when I was younger. The very first [artist that stuck out to me] was Bobbie Gentry because of "Ode to Billy Joe." That song was just a magical, mysterious, dark story that when you hear as a nine or ten-year-old or however old I was, when that song came out, it just grabbed you and sat you down at a chair and you couldn't move. You're like, what is going on in that bridge? Why are these people talking about black eyed peas? Somebody jumped off a bridge, like what? Go back to that story. What did I miss here?

And then secondly, Dolly Parton, because Dolly Parton was incredible. Jessi Colter, loved her. I don't know if you remember her, but she had that song "I'm Not Lisa." It's heartbreaking, it's so good.

Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson. And then later when I was older, the artists that I liked I guess would be kind of crossover artists like Linda Ronstadt, Emmylou Harris. When those three ladies—Emmylou, Dolly and Linda—did that trio, that was just like, oh my God, that was heaven. And then later on, of course, when females really dominated country music again, like Faith Hill and Shania Twain and Reba [McEntire] and Deana Carter, and the list goes on and on.

To me, it's always been about the story, the story in the song. And, of course, Tammy Wynette has to be mentioned because she really took chances. And Loretta Lynn, that was incredible. When Tammy Wynette was writing about divorce, but having to spell it out," D-I-V-O-R-C-E." And Loretta Lynn is singing about the pill. Now this is courageous and this is really bold, back in the day.

It's interesting, because I think it must have been so much harder to be that bold in the ‘60s and ‘70s. Because it's like, you're really going to be singing about this? And you're talking about country music. Applause to them for being so courageous.

Yeah, although the Pill and divorce would be potentially polarizing half a century ago, country music can still be an unfriendly environment for today’s divisive topics. I mean, look at the Chicks.

[The Chicks] never shied away from being political. And it's so crazy to me what happened to them and their career and where we are now, what people are saying, like what the... I don't even want to go there. I can't get political on this, but they were very brave.

While I have you, I’d love to ask you about your recent viral moment rapping Naughty By Nature’s "Hip Hop Hurray." Has anyone tried to get you to rap anything since then? You're very good at it!

Somebody reached out to me that I'm most likely going to do a collaboration [with].

I had to learn that song for a movie and it took me like a month to learn it. That was not an easy thing. And that's what is so major about Naughty By Nature: I learned so much from them about that genre and how difficult it is. It's really incredibly challenging. One thing that [Naughty By Nature] did say is that when we go on tour again, that they want to invite me on stage, and I'm going to. Oh yeah. I will be there rapping with Naughty By Nature.

Quarantine Diary: Louise Goffin Is Exercising, Taking Walks & Covering Cage The Elephant

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The Jayhawks

Photo by Vivian Johnson

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The Jayhawks' "New Day": How The Americana Pioneers Overcame Decades Of Turbulence And Became Full Collaborators

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For the first time in 35 years, the Gary Louris-led rockers pivoted to a full democracy on their new album 'XOXO.' Will it last?
Morgan Enos
GRAMMYs
Jul 9, 2020 - 11:39 am

The Jayhawks are generally seen as the rootsy, easygoing Minneapolis band that helped pioneer alt-country 35 years ago. But their leader Gary Louris hardly touches the stuff.

On his own time, the 65-year-old prefers to zone out to ambient drones by Cluster and Neu!; he's effusive about the hallucinogenic hard rockers Hawkwind. His bandmates, too, don't exclusively sit around listening to the Flying Burrito Brothers. Lately, keyboardist Karen Grotberg has been revisiting the French prog band Magma and German electronic pioneers Kraftwerk. Bassist Marc Perlman cites R.E.M. as a major inspiration. Drummer Tim O'Reagan was partly reared on 1970s power-pop like Badfinger, Cheap Trick and Big Star.

These influences have bubbled up in their music since the 1990s. This has been something of a liability. "A strength of ours is that we’re hard to pin down. We’re eclectic. But it’s also been a hindrance," Louris tells GRAMMY.com. "I don't take it personally, but I feel like it's because we have a little too much of a British pop element that mixes in with the roots. Only in the 1980s — when I was 26 or 27 — did I discover American traditional music. That was added into what was already our DNA and that’s what makes us kind of in-between."

The Jayhawks exist in an awkward limbo — too rootsy for experimental rock fans, too left-field for those with a closetful of Western snap shirts. But that in-betweenness gives them longevity and range. The band has swerved between soothing Americana, morose pop, and art-rock meltdowns over the years, but their new album XOXO (out on July 10 via Sham/Thirty Tigers) marks their most profound shift to date.

For the first time ever, Grotberg, Perlman and O’Reagan, all who have been in the band for decades, contributed their own songs and sang lead vocals throughout a Jayhawks album. When Grotberg's "Ruby," Perlman’s "Down to the Farm" and O'Reagan's "Dogtown Days" ricochet off each other and Louris' contributions like "Living in a Bubble," the effect is of a songwriters' guild a la Rumours-era Fleetwood Mac.

To hear the Jayhawks tell it to GRAMMY.com, they're pleased by this development. "It's fun in a way that wasn't there before," O'Reagan says of the open format. "It gives some variety and depth." Perlman concurs: "It does help to get a band's interest and focus on recording to have them included from the writing stage through the production stage," he says. Most important, "I feel like I had equal opportunity to express myself and to have those expressions heard and respected," Grotberg explains. "Gary opened it up. Wide open."

But when the Jayhawks began, they were anything but.

 

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The Jayhawks perform at The Greek Theatre on October 21, 1992 in Los Angeles. (Photo by Lindsay Brice/Getty Images)

 

Crowded In The Wings

The band was formed in 1985 in Minneapolis by Louris, Perlman, drummer Norm Rogers and their founding co-leader Mark Olson, who has since left the band twice. "Mark had the idea of putting the Jayhawks together because he had songs," Perlman says. "Good songs that he wanted certain musicians to flesh out for him." Their self-titled 1986 debut album and its 1989 follow-up Blue Earth were almost exclusively written by Olson, and on each, he and Louris honked together in ragged, gorgeous harmony.

The cocky pair's breakthrough came in 1992 via Hollywood Town Hall, which was released on Rick Rubin's fledgling label American Recordings. On that album, Louris emerged as Olson's co-writer and competitor. "There was a lot of blood spilled and sweat poured out and feet stepped on," Louris recalled to The Aquarian in 2011. "It was just our transition from being kind of a regional band to being internationally known."

"When we were younger, our edges were sharper," O’Reagan says. "Our egos were bigger."

Hollywood Town Hall featured Benmont Tench and Nicky Hopkins trading off on piano duties. When their mutual friend Mike Russell learned they needed an onstage keyboardist, he referred Grotberg, who lived around the corner from their frequent haunt the 400 Club and had seen the Jayhawks a number of times, She met up with the band at their rehearsal space and had one practice: "I guess it must have gone well, because I got the job!" she says.

But the spotlight unwaveringly remained on Louris and Olson. They got brasher and more ambitious on 1995’s Tomorrow the Green Grass, dabbling in psychedelia and breaking into an exuberant cover of Grand Funk's "Bad Time." "I just remember us all kinda rubbing our hands together going 'I think we’re onto something here,'" Louris told The Aquarian of songs like "I'd Run Away"; "Miss Williams' Guitar" and "Blue," the only Jayhawks song that came within spitting distance of a hit.

"I think we pushed it a little bit more on that one," Louris added. But they might have pushed it over the edge altogether: that Halloween, Olson abruptly left the band.

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The Jayhawks at Farm Aid in Ames, Iowa in 1993. (Photo by Paul Natkin/Getty Images)

 

Olson Leaves The Band

"It wasn’t a joyous ride, man!" Olson told Popmatters in 2011 of being a Jayhawk. "I'd been in the band for quite a while. I'd just got married [to singer-songwriter Victoria Williams, the namesake of 'Miss Williams' Guitar']. I found a house down in Joshua Tree. And I wanted to try something else with my life. I felt like we’d given it 100% on those two records, and we’d landed where we’d landed. And those guys wanted to go on, and I wanted to stop. And they went on."

Louris struggled in his new role as the band's leader. "A concern of Gary's was whether or not he could handle being the frontman himself," Perlman recalls. "He went and did it out of necessity. It’s like second nature to him now." Fearing the end of the band and hitting the bottle hard, Louris let his inner Anglophile take the controls, and he wrote a handful of rattled, despondent pop songs that became their 1997 masterpiece Sound of Lies.

"It is the f**k-you record. It really is the f**k-everybody record," Louris told San Francisco Bay Area Concerts in 2015. "I was going through a divorce, I was a mess, I was drinking too much, I was unhappy… I really felt this was the last Jayhawks record, and why not go out with a bang, so f**k it?" One line from opener "The Man Who Loved Life" predicts how the album would fare commercially: "The traveling band was not well-received."

Still, Olson's absence created a clearing in which the other members could flourish. O'Reagan, who replaced their third drummer Ken Callahan, wrote and sang "Bottomless Cup"; Perlman contributed “I Hear You Cry,” one of the album's B-sides. "I learned how to write songs by being in the Jayhawks," Perlman explains. "I didn’t really have any interest in it in any band I was in before. It kind of took me years to understand the concept of it."

Smile, their 2000 album helmed by star producer Bob Ezrin, was their shot at a full-bore pop record with co-writing credits from all Jayhawks. Sunnier than its predecessor while thrumming with slightly unhinged energy, Smile has aged terrifically, but the slickness of songs like its title track, “I’m Gonna Make You Love Me” and “Queen of the World” came to some fans' chagrin. Louris was unmoved by the pushback: "I get bored easily… I don’t like doing cookie-cutter things," he plainly told Yahoo! in 2014. "I didn't want to blindly follow what we were supposed to do and play country-rock."

Which is ironic in light of its 2003 follow-up Rainy Day Music, which completely abandoned synths and drum machines and took shelter in Americana. "People say that it's a return to our original sound, but sometimes I think of it as a retreat," Louris told City Pages in 2014. "We licked our wounds and said, ‘Well, that didn't work.’ And, I mean, we weren’t going to go in another direction of weird shit and drony music."

On that stripped-down album, the other Jayhawks continued to step up in Olson's absence. O’Reagan contributed “Don’t Let the World Get in Your Way” and “Tampa to Tulsa”; Perlman wrote “Will I See You in Heaven,” which the band sang in harmony. While lovely song-for-song, Rainy Day Music was a safe move instead of a surge forward, and it arguably cemented the Jayhawks’ image as an easy-listening band. They wouldn’t release another album for seven years.

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The Jayhawks' Gary Louris and Mark Olson perform onstage at Barbican Centre in 2012 in London. (Photo by Roberta Parkin/Redferns via Getty Images)

An Ill-Fated Reunion

While the Jayhawks quietly puttered along, Olson was engulfed in a tailspin of his own making.

At home in Joshua Tree, he was a full-time caregiver to Williams, who had been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. During periods of remission, the couple performed and recorded as the Original Harmony Ridge Creekdippers. After an exhausting 2004 tour of Europe, Olson decided to clear his head and enroll in a geology course at Barstow Community College. "One day, I drove the half-hour to college, and I kept driving," Olson told The Independent in 2007.

Olson didn’t stop until he arrived back in Minneapolis, where, he told Williams, he was crashing with Louris. In reality, Olson had gotten back with an ex-girlfriend. Williams quickly found out and filed for divorce. "The episode put such a strain on me that when I was in Minnesota my behavior wasn't rational," Olson recalled. "I mean, I was eating and doing normal things, but I was actually insane."

A bright spot emerged soon enough: Olson and Louris had reconnected back in 2001 when they were asked to write a song together for the Dennis Quaid-starring sports drama The Rookie. In 2008, they released Ready for the Flood, a duet album produced by the Black Crowes' Chris Robinson. "I'm willing to play it more by Mark’s rules now," Louris told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that year. "There’s definitely some kind of chemistry between us musically that just seems to pick up wherever it left off."

It worked so well, in fact, that Olson briefly rejoined the Jayhawks for 2012's Mockingbird Time, their first with their old co-leader since 1995. International touring followed. Then it all fell apart that same year after a festival gig in Spain. "In front of a bunch of people, Gary said, 'Why don’t you hit me?'" Olson told Minneapolis Star Tribune in 2014. "I don’t ever want to see Gary Louris again, nor do I want him singing my songs," he added.

Despite strong reviews, Louris has since disowned Mockingbird Time: "I don’t even count [it] as a Jayhawks record," he told Wicked Local Beverly in 2019. "I just kinda skip over it. It was a really bad experience. I was trying to force something that wasn’t there anymore with my relationship with Olson." Plus, "I was in the throes of drug addiction at that time," Louris admitted.

Ever since a heart-related surgery in 2003, Louris had been addicted to painkillers, and his drinking was spiraling out of control. "I found I just felt good on these things," he told MPR News in 2016. "I finally felt not-anxious, which is what I had growing up and all of my life, a low-level depression and anxiety." But Louris' need for pills ballooned over time; on one solo tour, he fell over backstage and repeated songs onstage.

The bottom fell out in downtown Los Angeles, when he stood on a hotel ledge at midnight and thought about jumping. Luckily, a friend from MusiCares got him into treatment: "I was so ready. You have to be ready,” he told The Current in 2016. "And I was so ready, it wasn't even funny."

Read More: Liz Brasher Opens Up About Memphis, Mental Health & Her New "Sad Girl Status" Video

Leaving The Monsters Behind

Sobriety gave Louris a new lease on life. "It’s changed the way I played," he told The Current. "I'm actually much more comfortable on stage straight. I approach the music differently." After spending years blaming music for his problems, he immersed himself in the stuff, writing prolifically in his home studio and twisting found sounds into unrecognizable shapes.

"[I] started dabbling with everything from manipulating radio broadcasts to sampling things off of my vinyl and twisting them into strange compositions," Louris told Courier Journal in 2016. This artistic roll resulted in 2016’s Paging Mr. Proust, which was co-produced by Peter Buck and juxtaposed pop jewels like "Quiet Corners and Empty Spaces" with Krautrock-influenced jams like "Ace" that reflect Louris' outré tastes.

Grotberg had a more hands-on role in Paging Mr. Proust. "I didn’t have any lead vocals that I sang, but there was definitely a lot of prominent piano," she notes. "Also, we started collaborating a little bit [on the writing of 'Lost the Summer,' 'Leaving the Monsters Behind' and 'The Dust of Long-Dead Stars']. There was a lot of freedom on that album. A lot of ‘Let’s get a little jammy and see what happens.'"

Proust’s easy-breezy follow-up, 2018’s Back Roads and Abandoned Motels, was a "cover album" with a twist. Nearly every song had been written by Louris for an outside act, whether it be The Chicks' ("Everybody Knows" and "Bitter End"), the Wild Feathers ("Backwards Women") or Ari Hest ("Need You Tonight"). Grotberg and O’Reagan sang more lead vocal parts than ever — the former on "Come Cryin’ to Me" and "El Dorado," the latter on "Gonna Be a Darkness" and "Long Time Ago."

Back Roads and Abandoned Motels led to a eureka moment for their next album of new material. "It kind of spurred me on… I just start thinking ‘I wish these guys were singing more,'" he says. "I'm singing 95% of the songs, and I have these two other people who sing so well. People love to hear their voices. Not just behind me, but singing lead."

A Full Democracy

In the interest of "opening [the band] up a bit more" and finding a unifying theme for a record, Louris asked Grotberg, Perlman and O'Reagan to write and sing their own compositions for XOXO.

Grotberg contributed two songs that dated back decades. "Ruby," which the Jayhawks occasionally performed live in the 1990s, was written about an elderly woman who cared for her during childhood. "Fast-forward a couple decades, and I hadn’t seen her in a long time. I found her with one foot in this world and another foot in the next," Grotberg says. "So it’s sort of a transition into death, but I view it more as a love song. I was trying to write about her relationship with her husband, which is a beautiful story."

Her impressionistic ballad "Across My Field" was written while living in the countryside. "I was probably sitting there spacing out with a kerosene lamp on the table and looking out across the gravel driveway to that field," she says. "It’s about trying to move forward out of any situation in life. You have to take a step. It’s not necessarily a large step. But you have to step forward." (Grotberg also wrote and sang "Jewel of the Trimbelle," a piano ballad named after a small Wisconsin town where she once lived, which is included as a vinyl-only bonus track.)

Grotberg's bandmates are ecstatic about the leaps she's taken. "Her lyrics are very poetic. It’s a major step for her to be able to express herself more," Louris says, aglow. Adds Perlman, "Gary and I talk about how enjoyable it is to watch her come out of her shell. He and I have been supporters of her songs for a long time. It’s just a question of finding the right time and place for her to step up."

Perlman, who had never sung a lead vocal on a Jayhawks album, wrote "Down to the Farm" half an hour before a writing/rehearsal session. “"I kind of felt like I wasn’t pulling my weight. I kind of got frustrated," he admits. "You’ve got to step up to the plate a little. So I sat down and just popped that one off." ("I love the dark beauty of that song," Louris says of the Leonard Cohen-esque track, noting its theme of "aging and feeling time pass.")

O’Reagan ramps up the energy on XOXO with "Dogtown Days" and "Society Pages," two hard-charging tracks that hint at his power-pop roots in his old band the Leatherwoods. The album’s closer "Looking Up Your Number," a tender, close-miked ballad he wrote more recently, is something else entirely.

"The lyrical content is kind of a well-trod area for me, which is regret over a screwed-up relationship and trying to figure out how to make it work again," O'Reagan says. "I seem to keep going back to that subject in my songs. A lot of selfishness and screwed-up relationships and trying to make good on it."

Louris, Grotberg, O'Reagan wrote the winding "Illuminate" in hot-potato fashion by tossing suggestions back and forth — it’s anybody’s guess whose lyrics were actually whose. "It has a variety of styles within," Perlman says, calling it a "process song." "I do remember that Gary and I had kind of rediscovered the Moody Blues at some point in the last year. I think subconsciously I was thinking of the song 'Question,' which is a beautiful song and has really distinct parts to it. It doesn’t barrel through the song from beginning to end."

As for Louris' songs, "Living in a Bubble" is a bouncy rejoinder to data-tracking and the 24-hour news cycle reminiscent of Harry Nilsson and Elliott Smith; "Homecoming" is a climate-change warning that slowly becomes subsumed in a bit-crusher storm; and "Bitter Pill" is an aching story-song that builds on "Lovers of the Sun" from Paging Mr. Proust.

"It’s a theme that hits close to home for me," Louris said in a statement about "Bitter Pill." "Always searching for the next fix of happiness, the missing piece… never being happy with what one has."

A "Shit Show" For Good Causes

While waiting for the COVID-19 pandemic to die down and for concerts to resume, most of the Jayhawks have been at home in Minnesota. "I'm kind of bored, like every musician," Perlman says. While Grotberg, Perlman and O’Reagan have zero desire to live-stream ("I think it would be a challenge for me," O’Reagan says pointedly), Louris has taken to the format like a child clambering on monkey bars.

Every week or so since late April, Louris has hosted "The Sh*t Show," a ramshackle home performance series in which he performs Jayhawks favorites and obscure solo cuts by request. His girlfriend Steph runs point from a second iPad from Canada, and his son Henry, who possesses a dusky tenor like his father, typically joins on-camera to sing backup and cover songs by Radiohead, Paul McCartney and Sean Lennon.

Louris began broadcasting "The Sh*t Show" from his home in West Saugerties, New York; now, it’s live from Minneapolis, where he moved in June just as the George Floyd protests kicked into gear. "We join in with our fellow Twin Citians in expressing our grief over the senseless death of George Floyd," the band wrote in a Facebook statement in June. "Our sympathy [is] with the family and all those affected by the events of the past couple weeks." Given current events, he splits tip jar donations from "The Sh*t Show" between the Navajo Water Project and the GoFundMe for Elijah McClain, who was killed by police in 2019.

Overall, Louris, who has been open about his struggles with depression, looks relaxed hosting his home show — cracking jokes, bantering with the peanut gallery in the comment section, lightheartedly penalizing Henry for sour notes. "He can pull that off. He has the ability to get on a stage," Perlman says of his boss' livestreaming abilities. "I don’t think I’ll ever work with anybody else who is as proficient a songwriter and as talented a singer and as talented a guitar player as he is. People don’t realize what an amazing guitar player he is. You don’t find people with that kind of all-around talent. So he can do that."

"On the other hand," the bassist says, "I would never be caught dead doing something like that."

GRAMMYs

Photo Credit: TimGeaney

 

Looking Forward

When the pandemic allows for touring and recording again, will the band continue in this democratic format?

"I’ve been thinking about this and I’ve kind of painted myself in a corner," Louris says with a laugh. "There is no rulebook. I’m always going to feel a little bit like a benevolent dictator and the buck’s got to stop with somebody because it’s really hard to have everyone agree on everything. I’ll always kind of sort of steer the ship a little bit more, but hopefully this continues. I have total faith that this will continue."

"We kind of have similar sensibilities between us about what’s good and what ain’t," O’Reagan says, noting that the process of trimming songs was surprisingly painless. "There were no knock-down drag-out discussions about what would make it and what wouldn’t."

"Who knows?" Perlman asks in response to the question. "The songs decide how the record is going to be produced. The next record we make could be completely acoustic, stripped-down. The next record could be all Karen songs for all I know."

To Grotberg, who has had the longest journey of any Jayhawk to the spotlight, there’s no question that XOXO is the beginning of an era. "I’d have to say yes, I do anticipate that," she responds. "It could be that Gary has such a large volume of songs for the next album, but I can’t imagine him saying ‘Nobody else can have a song.’ I imagine that this is a new day."

To that end, nearly four decades since Louris found American traditional music, the Jayhawks are arguably just getting started.

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