Sleater-Kinney

Photo courtesy of Mom + Pop 

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Sleater-Kinney Are Embracing Whatever Comes Next

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One week out from releasing their ninth studio album, 'The Center Won't Hold,' the punk torchbearers talk about their latest project, being in the studio with St. Vincent, losing drummer Janet Weiss and why we need to tell older women's stories
Bonnie Stiernberg
GRAMMYs
Aug 8, 2019 - 7:57 am

When Yeats famously wrote, "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold," he was specifically referring to the chaos of post-WWI Europe, but with daily mass shootings, white nationalism on the rise and a president who has been accused of sexual misconduct by at least 22 women, it's a sentiment that, sadly, feels particularly relevant to 2019.

It makes sense, then, that The Center Won't Hold, Sleater-Kinney's first album of the Trump presidency (out Aug. 16 via Mom + Pop)—their follow-up to their 2015 comeback, No Cities To Love—would be rooted in that tumultuousness. But to assume that it's all despair is an oversimplification.

"It's not really the job of the songwriter or the artist to make sweeping statements that are a summation of phenomena or moments but to grapple with opposing or contradictory truths or multiple ideas or multitudes, and I think that this record is an exploration of a time of chaos, a time of brokenness, fragility, and it acknowledges that within that sort of mode of despondency that there are glimmers that feel hopeful that I think we speak to—collaboration and community and friendship as the fulcrum for resistance," Carrie Brownstein tells the Recording Academy over the phone. "I think if anything it speaks to the idea that many people right now have to withstand various forms of trespass and discrimination and trauma, and it's kind of seeking like how do we do that, and what are the moments in that journey where there is an allowance for happiness. And so it veers into happiness and hopefulness at times, but I wouldn't say that overall it's a hopeful record.

"I think it's a contemplative record, it's a very personal record, and I think we always hope to connect to people and for people to feel seen and heard by our music, but I think we'd rather share all of the feelings than just 'here's one,' you know?" she continues. "I think we're not afraid to have there be moments of discomfort or anger or sadness, but the counter to that is there are instances of levity. So is it hopeful? Maybe not. But I think connection is a form of hope."

Those contradictory truths can be heard throughout the album, perhaps most obviously on the deceptively catchy "Can I Go On," which juxtaposes its danceable melody with grim lyrics from a narrator who admits that "maybe I'm not sure I wanna go on at all," and, as Brownstein puts it, is "kind of stunned by the ways people feel necessary to sort of perform outward modes of joy when really inside they feel awful." In addition to that variety of moods and feelings, The Center Won't Hold features an expanded sonic palette from the band, thanks in part to their decision to have St. Vincent (also known as Annie Clark) produce the record.

"I think that we originally had thought that we might work with more than one producer on the album to kind of break it up a little bit and do something really different, but we've all known Annie for a long time and are friends with her, and she offered to go into the studio with us and try producing, and so it was really on a kind of 'let's see how this goes' basis that we went into the studio with Annie," Corin Tucker says. "In the summer of 2018, we just had a few days and we were gonna get a few songs done, but she was so full of ideas and energy and so productive that we were kind of blown away with how it sounded, and we were definitely like, 'Oh, we should make the whole record with Annie.'"

"After No Cities, I think we felt a sense of accomplishment in setting out what we'd hoped to do, which was to return to playing music in a way that wasn't nostalgia-based or playing into any sort of sentimentality, but that we knew there was sort of this next chapter of the band and that we wanted to focus on new music and moving forward," Brownstein adds.

Of course, it's impossible to talk about next chapters for Sleater-Kinney without addressing the recent, unexpected departure of Janet Weiss. After 23 years with the band, the drummer took to social media on July 1 to announce that "the band is moving in a new direction and it is time for me to move on," shocking fans and leading to speculation over why she left. (Two days before we speak, Brownstein responds to a fan's joke about Weiss leaving on Instagram, writing, "What am I supposed to say? She left. We asked her to stay. We tried. It’s hard and sad. Most people would ask me, 'hey are you ok?' That’s the human response.")

"I think the conversation has shifted," she explains. "I think obviously people feel a real connection with this band, and I think originally [the fan response] was sort of the same way we felt, which was surprise and sadness and questions, but I think with time there's a more holistic response, which is to realize that a band is a relationship, and relationships change over time, and it's just as hard if not harder for Corin and I to lose a collaborator. It's just as hard for us as it is for the fans. And I think Corin and I feel very strongly that we have an obligation to our fans, and also it's a privilege to get to keep playing and keep going. I think all that stuff becomes part of a bigger conversation about change and transformation and art, and I like those bigger conversations. I think those are interesting. I think some of the more knee-jerk, very reactionary kind of comments are less useful, and I think with more time people start to realize like, 'Oh, almost nothing upon which we rely has been static, and change and evolution are kind of the only things that we can count on, and bands are no different.'"

"And even though this was not what we wanted, obviously we wanted Janet to stay, she didn't feel like it was something she wanted to do anymore," she adds. "So we have to respect that and we have to embrace whatever comes next. And also, her playing on this record is amazing and I'm really, really excited for people to hear it. We all worked really hard on it."

For all the changes, The Center Won't Hold is still very much a Sleater-Kinney record—bold and feminist and unrelenting. It ends with a gut-punch, the piano ballad "Broken," where Tucker sings, "Me, me too / My body cried out," inspired in part by the #MeToo movement and the testimony of Christine Blasey Ford. It's a bleak way to leave listeners, but it's an important one.

"Even though we're one of the first all-female bands to be at this precipice, I hope we're not the last."

"We wrestled with the sequencing of the album a lot," Tucker says. "And you know, I think we thought about that and I think we really gave ourselves permission to just be on this album and not have to be optimistic in every song or present like a solution to any of our problems. This album is much more about just noticing where we're at and speaking out and commenting on it and speaking our feelings without any kind of prescription of how we're going to make it better. I feel like that was a really freeing sensibility in terms of writing. We were just gonna write for ourselves, first and foremost...I think that in this cultural moment it's hard not to feel reduced by the kind of language around women and around people of color. It's hard not to feel constricted and reduced and silenced by that, and the band has always been a place of exploration of self and a place to expand identity and to explore that, and so I think that this album, the writing process was a really natural place to do that in."

Ultimately, that place to explore and expand and connect with listeners who may be experiencing similar things in their own lives is essential—and it's why, after 25 years, Brownstein and Tucker have no intentions of stopping.

"I think that it's so important to have a multitude of stories in the world, and I'm so grateful to hear younger women's stories and stories by young people in general. But I think in music, especially within more heavy rock vernacular, there's sort of less stories being told by older women," Brownstein says. "And I just want that spectrum to exist. So I also hope, you know, even though we're one of the first all-female bands to be at this precipice, I hope we're not the last. Because I feel like what's wonderful about music is that you get a sense of life from beginning to end, but you need those voices from the middle. You need those voices from the later years to really understand the whole human experience. So I'm glad that we're putting something out in the world that's a very honest assessment of bodies and life and growth in a slightly later stage."

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Carrie Brownstein of Sleater-Kinney

Carrie Brownstein of Sleater-Kinney

Photo: Scott Dudelson/WireImage/Getty Images

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Sleater-Kinney Confirm New Album In The Works

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The indie-rock trio will release their ninth studio album this year, following their reunion record, 2015's 'No Cities To Love'
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 8, 2019 - 5:32 pm

Today Sleater-Kinney shared some big news with their fans—they're working on a new album, due out this year, produced by none other than GRAMMY winner St. Vincent.

Corin Tucker, Carrie Brownstein and Janet Weiss of Sleater-Kinney posed for a photo in the studio with Anne Clark, aka St. Vincent, sharing it to their Twitter earlier today. The post read: "Sleater-Kinney. Produced by @st_vincent. 2019." Clark, wearing a big grin, followed up with a similar photo.

Smiles or not, it's safe to say that this is a pretty exciting collab for all involved. Brownstein, who many may also recognize as half of the "Portlandia" comedy duo, recently spoke to NPR about the new project.

"We always planned on getting back in the studio — it was just a matter of when. If there is an overarching principle to this album, it's that the tools on which we were relying proved inadequate. So we sought new ones, both metaphorically and literally," Brownstein said.

While this is the first time (to our knowledge) that Sleater-Kinney and St. Vincent have worked in the studio together, as highlighted by NPR, Clark has appeared on episodes of "Portlandia" (most recently in 2014) and has shown Sleater-Kinney love with a cover. In January 2018 Clark posted a video of her playing "Modern Girl," from Sleater-Kinney's 2005 album, The Woods.

The currently unnamed 2019 album will be Sleater-Kinney's first album since 2015's No Cities To Love, which broke their decade-long hiatus since The Woods.

One of Clark's most recent projects, St. Vincent's MASSEDUCTION, is currently up for consideration at the 61st GRAMMY Awards. Tune in to CBS on Sunday, Feb. 10 to catch the show and all the GRAMMY excitement.

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Victoria Kimani

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Afropop Queen Victoria Kimani Is Kenya's Best Kept Secret

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The "Wash It" singer tells the Recording Academy about her multinational background, growing up in L.A., Tulsa, Nigeria and Kenya and breaking out of what can sometimes be an isolating music scene
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Aug 9, 2019 - 12:52 pm

Everyone has an origin story, and R&B/Afropop singer Victoria Kimani's is especially memorable. Born in Los Angeles to Kenyan parents, Kimani moved all over the globe—specifically to Tulsa, Okla., Nigeria and finally Kenya—during her teen years.

These days, she lives full-time in Kenya, where she is one of the nation's most recognizable performers. She makes time to return to L.A., though, where she's recording her sophomore album, which follows last year's Afropolitan EP and 2016's Safari.

For all intents and purposes, Kimani should be better known in the States. Over the course of the last decade, she's been professionally linked to everyone from DJ Whoo Kid to Jadakiss to DJ Green Lantern to Busta Rhymes to Timbaland and beyond. More recently, she joined Ghanaian rapper Sarkodie on the grooving single "Wash It," and she shows up on Afrobeat upstart Hakeem Roze's bouncing June single "Miracle." Later this year, she'll drop her long-awaited sophomore effort. 

Kimani sat down with the Recording Academy to tell us more about her multinational background, coming of age in Kenya and Nigeria and why, as an artist, she's committed to breaking boundaries and pushing beyond Kenya's local music scene.

Can you tell me a little bit about your background? You were born in the States but you moved to Kenya as an adult. How did you get your start in music?

Well, growing up was interesting. I'm first generation Kenyan-American. We listened to a lot of gospel music growing up. I was pretty sheltered, my parents are pastors, so there wasn't too much secular music invited in the home. But we listened to a lot of African music, a lot of jazz, a lot of Miriam Makeba, Brenda Fassie, lot of the legendary African artists from my parents' generation, and then listened to a lot of gospel music at the same time.

So I think I kind of just taught myself how to sing from listening to gospel artists and trying to match their runs and match their melodies. My dad is a musician and even in the '70s he was singing Elvis Presley covers in Nairobi. Kenya in the '70s with his bell-bottoms and his Afro. He's very deep with the music. As far as good music goes, that definitely came from my dad.

But growing up here was, it was interesting, I was always moving around. Yes, I was born in California, but here we ended up moving to Oklahoma so my parents could further their Bible education in Tulsa. Then we went on our first mission trip when I was 14 and the first African country that I went to was Nigeria. Although we're not Nigerians.

We lived in Nigeria, Benin City to be exact, for two years from 1999 to 2001, and that was my where I got my real introduction to world music and how there's other rhythms and other kinds of music besides what I was familiar with in America, just being around my friends at school. I'd say I got more exposed to African music for sure when I finally went back to the continent.

After we left Nigeria we entered Kenya and my parents said, "Okay, well, we're relocating here now. No more America for you. We're going to live in Kenya." And I'm like, "What!" I think I had like two weeks to say bye to my friends. So straight from Nigeria, moved to Kenya and that's when I started recording. I was 16 when I started recording my first songs in Nairobi, Kenya.

Have you been based in Kenya ever since?

There's been times between then that I moved back to the States. So from 16 to about 18 or 19, I was still in Kenya. I came back to pursue my music and then that's when I got into songwriting where I used to write for a few different artists. But I think when I actually moved back full time, that was towards the end of 2013.

What made you eventually decide to make the move permanent?

Opportunities. Opportunities to build my fan base of people that I felt like were my people.

I felt like, although I was born here, I'm still very much Kenyan. My family, my entire family; mom, dad, brothers, cousins, everyone was still in Kenya. I was approached by a record label that was based in Nigeria, as a matter of fact. And I felt comfortable to go back to Nigeria because I had already lived there as a child. So I knew what I was getting in to. At the time Nigerian music was really starting to create some hype, some waves, globally. So when I had that opportunity I jumped at it because I always just stated myself as not just a Kenyan artists because I sing in English. I don't sing in Swahili. I wanted to be [collaborative].

For me that means someone that could be from one place, but you're [traveling] around the continent, you're working in East Africa, West Africa, you're collaborating with artists in Central Africa and South Africa as well. So I sort of treated the continent how anyone would treat America. Where you could be from Virginia and move to Los Angeles. You could be from L.A. and move to New York. That's not something that's really done a lot in the continent. Most people in Africa stay in our each individual countries and we literally don't meet. So I really treated it the same way I treated America very early on with even how you move around a lot as a child with my parents. So that was very instrumental for me and I think it definitely sets me apart as an African artist, as a Kenyan artist in the continent who has collaborated so much across the continent.

But initially when I moved back, this was just an opportunity. It was an opportunity for me to reach back to my own roots and to reconnect back into my town and to find myself as an artist. And five years later it definitely accomplished that and still accomplishing more. We're still building on it.

What is the reasoning behind people in different African nations staying more or less put? Are there economic reasons behind that? 

There's so many different factors. I mean for one, like right now people are doing it a lot more. But in 2014, when I moved back, no one was doing that because I didn't know that they needed to. I think a lot of East African artists didn't realize that the door could be open to them in West Africa. I think a lot of people maybe can't afford it. Some people really don't have the means to be able to leave like that. Some people don't have passports, and a lot of artists are also very content in their space. They don't mind being like the local champion, which is great, you know? They're just comfortable. Maybe some people are afraid? Maybe they don't have the connections? There's so many different factors that can kick into that.

But I think for the most part it's just a comfort thing. Right now, a lot Nigerian artists, they don't need to leave Nigeria. In fact, the farthest that they probably would want to go is probably Ghana because they have so many resources locally. They're making enough money. They have this stick-together mentality. Whereas in Kenya we're very different, but at the same time we have a certain level of comfortability. There's only 50 million people in Kenya. There's 200 million people in Nigeria. So if you just think about that alone, some people have just become comfortable with their space, and others feel more pressured to go and leave and go find a greener pastures elsewhere.

Another motive for me getting to go to other places is because our industry is not fully built yet. We don't even really use the good singing platform just like other artists, they're singing globally. We're very much in our own little bubble of not understanding where to place art in general. Even fashion. Politics is very much at the forefront, even in the youth in Kenya. So music is not an industry that's developed. I don't know what I would do if I wasn't able to leave Kenya and explore the continent the way that I did.

You've experienced so much success in Kenya. As someone who goes back and forth to the States, what's your interest level in terms of gaining more attention over here? Is that a priority as you ready your next album?

Definitely. I mean, ultimately I think everyone right now... I don't know if you're too familiar with African music or Afro-beats, but the message is very much Africa to the world. It's very much about sharing our culture and music with the rest of the world. When Lupita's made it globally and in America it just sends so many positive messages back to Kenya and it was like wow, if you do have this international dream or whatever it is and in your capacity or outside of it, it's possible. So, for her success, like it just meant so much to me as well. Ultimately I would like to see my music in a space that it can grow more in especially... Even now that you could just go down into a place that has structured like we still are struggling with collecting our royalties in Kenya.

We still are fighting for our rights as composers in Kenya. We still are, a lot of our music is stolen and we're not able to do anything about it back there. So here we are in this land of global opportunities, but also you have rights, you actually have rights as a creator, you know, so ultimately it would be amazing for that crossover to happen. The producers that I'm working with now they're African producers based in the States. So they also work with some top tier American artists as well. So for me, they understand the rhythm because I do want to stay very true to like my own rhythm, but they also understand the crossover. They know what's palatable more for people in America or Europe or the rest of the world. So for me it's about collaborating and creating more fusion. And so yeah, that's definitely my goal.

Could you tell me a bit about one of your recent singles, "Wash It"? It's a collaboration with Ghanaian artist Sarkodie. How did you guys connect?

Sarkodia is definitely probably the best rapper from West Africa. His flow is just super crazy and Ghanaian people have really showed so much support for anytime we have collaborated. This is actually our third collaboration. He featured me on his last album and then I featured him on my first album and then this is our new project together. Now we've just been working on the next body of work. I think it's time for another album. And so that's literally what I'm finalizing here in Los Angeles right now.

What are you hoping to portray on this album that maybe you hadn't gotten the chance to? How would you word describe the evolution between your first and this one?

Identity. My first, I was still trying to figure out who I am and how I fit in that space. I also felt a little displaced for a while when I first moved back to Kenya because I don't speak Swahili, because I was born an American. Now I'm around people who've never, ever been anywhere but Kenya. So I had to figure out my sound and my space in that capacity. And then you can hear that when you listened to the album.

Now I know exactly who I am. I know where I come from. I know how I was brought up and I know what I like. So now that really translates in the production, in the songwriting. It's very, very much Kimani, very me now. I feel like my first body of work was me trying to find me and yeah. So I feel like I've finally cultivated my own sound.

Can I ask—to what extent do you grapple with your own multinational background as an artist? Do you grapple with it at all? I only ask because I imagine it can be an interesting experience performing for more closed-off communities when you yourself like to cross borders.

That's an interesting question. There's two different ways that I can answer it. One of them is in the literal way where because I know that I'm 100% Kenyan tracing back to all my ancestors, but my mother told me that my tribe, which is Kĩkũyũ. My tribe allegedly migrated from Cameroon back in the day, which is West Africa. So if that's true, then you know, where are we really from?

You know, a lot of Kenyans are actually nomadic. Especially the Masai are known to go travel from different parts, but even now, they don't have a place they really settle. They take their cattle and they move. They just walk from country to country. So I don't know if I really trace all the way back, but at the same time, because my story is so different than a typical Kenyan, because I was born [in L.A.], I do feel like I can't ignore where I was brought up. I cannot ignore how my accent sounds.

Yeah, I can't really detect an accent. If anything, it's just a very soft lilt. 

I don't think I have an accident at all, but I definitely know I have one at home because Swahili's the first language, so I'm sounding like this. It's like, "Where are you from?" I had to remind people that there's something called Kenyan-American. It's like people don't realize that Kenyans left and there's a lot of Kenyans that have left the country and live in so many different parts of the world. I think a lot of Kenyans don't don't that. And so having to go back and explain this is the reason why I don't speak Swahili. This is the reason why I identify so much with West Africa because they are an English-speaking country. This is the reason why I was able to drive when I go to South Africa, when I go to these different places, because I'm literally speaking a common language. I had to explain these things.

I'm also very naturally rebellious. Nothing is really how it's supposed to be. And so I had to just stop apologizing for the fact that my parents didn't raise me speaking Swahili. I think really it's just about other people educating themselves about diversity in Africa and also with diversity of Africans. 

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Christina Bell

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Christina Bell On "Going" & Playing Twinkie Clark In The 'The Clark Sisters' Biopic

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"A couple of years ago I went out to Essence Fest and did a tribute for The Clark Sisters, and then three years later I'm like, 'What the heck. I'm in their movie?'" the gospel performer tells the Recording Academy
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Aug 5, 2019 - 11:44 am

Gospel singer Christina Bell is having a heavenly year. Not only has the Shreveport, Louisiana native recently released a chart-topping single called "Going," which is co-written by Isaiah Templeton and Shamarr Blake, and produced by D. Jamel Kimbrough, but Bell just wrapped filming the Lifetime biopic The Clark Sisters: The First Ladies Of Gospel, where she portrays Twinkie Clark. 

Executive produced by Queen Latifah, Mary J. Blige and Missy Elliott, The Clark Sisters will premiere early next year. As she talks about it, Bell, who spent nearly two decades singing in the gospel group Zie'l with Crystal Kay Bell and Keyondra Shane Lockett, lets out a little yelp of excitement. First of all, AHHH!" she exclaims over the phone. "It's definitely a very thrilling and exciting adventure to be on right now. My first day, of course, I was super-duper nervous. But then it calmed down once I got the hang of it. It's been amazing ever since."

Now that she's wrapped shooting, Bell is working on her second solo album, which is due to arrive later this year via Malaco Records. The Recording Academy sat down with Bell to talk about everything she's been working on lately, including what we can expect on her upcoming solo work and what it was like to hang out with the real Twinkie Clark when preparing for her role.

How long have you been professionally singing gospel, and what inspired you to pursue a career in it?

I actually started singing since I was a small little baby. I was in a singing group for about 20 years. The group was called Zie'l, and we got the opportunity to just travel so many different places all around the country, and then a little bit outside of the country, hitting Jamaica and doing different things like that. And it started when we were in church. We grew up together and sang in a small choir. It was five of us. They were the only people that came to the first rehearsal, and that's how we started the group. Shreveport, Louisiana was our hometown, and like I said, we grew up together in the same church just really, really excited about just singing. At one point we actually wanted to do R&B, but my mom was like, "Yeah, no. You're not going to do that."

I continued on with the gospel thing. But for the most part it's really, really been exciting to sing gospel music. Of course gospel is the good news, so I'm really excited to keep doing gospel music and getting his word out, so that's where it started for me.

You've been performing solo for about the last four years. What has your journey been like in deciding to pursue a solo career?

I definitely will say the experience is quite different from doing group music than solo music. It's a little bit strange when you first start out doing the solo career because you don't get the opportunity to look to your right and your left. I always say this: you look to your right and your left. These are your sisters that you've grown up with, and you just have so much chemistry with, and you know exactly where to go musically, and you don't really have to say anything. But you know how you give that look to somebody and you're like, "Okay, yeah. Let's go there." I didn't have that anymore. I had to carry my own weight. In the beginning it's very nerveracking because you don't know if people will accept you like they did with the group. It's almost like you're starting over. People don't really know you as much. You have some people that remember you from where you came from, but then you have a lot of people that are being introduced to you.

The downside [of performing solo] is more nerves. You tend to be a little bit more nervous when you have to go from being in a group to being a solo artist. But the upside to it is, you get used to it. And though my nerves almost get the best of me, I've learned how to put that in check. So, it feels very exciting to sing and to perform, and just do what I enjoy doing. I wouldn't trade it. 

I know a lot of people ask me if the group will get back together, and I tell them I can't see it right now because it's freeing. You don't have to necessarily do what everybody else wants to do. You can actually get your brand out there. 

I'd love to talk a little bit about the latest song, "Going." What was the genesis of that one?

This is one of those songs that you want to have written, but I didn't pen this song. This song was actually penned by Isaiah Templeton and Shamar Blake. They are really, really great friends. Shamar was actually in Walmart and God just placed that song in his heart about God's mercy. I think he even saw something going on in Walmart, or something like that, but God placed those words in his heart about his mercy constantly going and just keeping us. And though we don't have to continue doing the same things that we were doing, you get the opportunity to experience God's mercy in a really, really real way when you're going through life, when you've made a mistake or when something has happened and you just don't feel right about certain things.

I think it's really, really special that they got the opportunity to get together and collaborate on the song. When you're working on gospel music you very seldom have people that can come together and do something so tremendous like that: make a song really simple so that other people outside of the writing department can understand what it is that you're saying. A lot of times I think that music has started to get to a place where we don't really necessarily understand what's going on in the lyrics, and this is one of those very simple songs where you don't have to worry about not understanding. I think that this song is actually for everybody.

In the Bible it says in Lamentations, chapter 3, verses 22 and 23, "The faithful love of the Lord never ends and his mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness. His mercies are new each morning." That's so beneficial for all of us, when you get to experience the love of God, and his mercy and his grace constantly just wrapping you up. I always say you got two best friends following you, grace and mercy. Because if you get in trouble, if you find yourself wondering what's next, you still have grace and mercy that follows you all of the days of your life, and you don't necessarily have to really struggle with wondering if God is there. 

In the song it talks about God talking you off of the ledge. Not necessarily off of a physical edge, but a spiritual edge. If you find yourself looking over the edge and you're like, "Okay. I just can't do it no more." God, he will in the nick of time literally send you something, or remind you of a word something in your spirit and you can just come off of that and you'll be like, "You know what? I'm not worrying about this anymore. I am not about to worry about it. I'm not going to be afraid anymore. I'm just going to take that leap of faith and I'm going to jump." And that's God's mercy just constantly saying, "You know what? I got you."

You just wrapped up filming The Clark Sisters, your first movie role. How did you get involved with this project?

First of all, [Screams] AHHH! It's definitely a very thrilling and exciting adventure to be on right now, okay?

We got connected with this project through a very well-known producer, and writer. He posted about it on his Instagram page, and I don't think that he was supposed to, but my managers got wind of it and reached out. And we got the opportunity to do an audition. They told me to get it in by a certain time, and I had to learn my sides in less than a day. And that's something that I have never done before, so I got the sides done and really, really studied hard for it. I had to study for three different role. They wanted me to try out for three different characters, and then Twinkie was the one that they were like, "No, you are definitely Twinkie." So I got the role, and a month later everything was history. We got to Canada. And my first day, of course, I was super duper nervous. But then it calmed down once I got the hang of it. It's been amazing ever since.

Did you actually re-record The Clark Sisters' songs? 

The first thing that we did was, we went to studios to record the vocals and everything. And this is something I didn't know, of course, but we did see live vocals as well while we were on set. A lot of what you see is us singing live, but they of course had to mix the two so that they could make sure that it was great for TV. You don't want to really have mess-ups and all that stuff or whatever. So we did do the recording of the vocals first, before we even did any television, the scenes or anything like that. Before we did any of that. So, that was nerveracking because I actually had never done lip syncing or anything like that. 

Right, and it's actually really hard to lip sync, or so I've been told.

Yes! I had to ask them. I was like, "Can I sing live?" So I sang live quite a bit, and the other girls did as well. It was something that not all of us, actually, have ever experienced actually doing live. I mean, lip syncing for videos and stuff. So, it came out really, really good. 

Did you have the opportunity to connect with Twinkie herself?

Oh, definitely. Mm-hmm. The group that I sang with, we covered quite a few of [The Clark Sisters'] songs when we were growing up. And once we got recognition for their song called "Is My Living In Vain," we got the opportunity to meet them. From that point on we did some meet and greets with them, and we also got the opportunity to sing with them on stage once before, or it may have been twice before. Over the years we got the opportunity to do tributes to them. And quite funny thing is, a couple of years ago I went out to Essence Fest in New Orleans and did a tribute with a couple of women gospel artists, and we did a tribute for The Clark sisters, and then three years later I'm like, "What the heck. I'm in their movie?"

I've [also] gotten the opportunity to sing at their church and just have fellowship with them, and actually speak with them, and with Twinkie. The Clark sisters saw the movie already, and when Twinkie watched it then she says, "You know, I like everybody, but the Twinkie character, I really like her."

That's great. So what can you tell us about your new LP?

I'm actually about to release my second project, which is going to be this year. And I'm super-duper excited about that because I've actually been done with it for about a year and a half, maybe two years now, and we just wanted to make sure that everything was absolutely fantastic for the listeners. It's just really important to me that people are not necessarily bombarded with gospel, even when it comes to gospel music. I wanted people to walk away with the feeling of relief and feeling renewed, because of course that's what the Bible talks about: be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I want people to walk away feeling renewed and feeling refreshed. 

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Hootie & The Blowfish's Darius Rucker

Photo by Scott Kowalchyk/CBS via Getty Images

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Hootie & The Blowfish Talk 'Cracked Rear View''s 25th Anniversary, Being Secretly Political And "Old Town Road"

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Lead singer Darius Rucker sits down with the Recording Academy to go deep on his band's best-selling album, feeling pressure to change the "Hootie" name, breaking racial barriers in country music and more
Dan Weiss
GRAMMYs
Jul 31, 2019 - 10:53 am

Hootie & The Blowfish are a household name, possibly for the worse. Despite being four of the most regular guys to make one of the 20 best-selling albums of all-time with 1994's Cracked Rear View, which has shipped 21 million copies worldwide, their popularity is viewed as somewhat of a fad from the era between grunge and teen pop. It's hard to account for why their success was less stable than that of peers like Counting Crows or Dave Matthews Band, but the name probably has something to do with it. At the same time, one could argue they achieved critical mass because of it, and more staggered successes like Counting Crows didn’t.

Regardless, it isn’t much of a stretch that Hootie's jangly folk-rock has transitioned from '90s frat-guy audiences to Tom Petty-loving dads and families in the 2010s as they tour to celebrate Cracked Rear View's 25th anniversary and prepare to release a new album later this year, with the likes of Ed Sheeran co-writing a song. And it doesn’t hurt that frontman Darius Rucker, 53, has enjoyed unexpected number-one success making country music solo for the last decade and change. Rucker spoke to the Recording Academy via phone about the legacy of Cracked Rear View, the political bent that's gone unnoticed in Hootie’s songs and his belated conversion to hip-hop.

You'd been playing these songs for years before Cracked Rear View was a smash. So you’re officially celebrating the 25th anniversary, but is it 30 for some of them?

Oh goodness, yeah. "Let Her Cry," "Hold My Hand," definitely 30 years.

How much time passed between writing a song like "Only Wanna Be With You" and it being completely inescapable everywhere you went?

Probably six, seven years! Before any of those songs really did anything, we were just playing clubs. We were still that little band in South Carolina that wasn’t ever gonna get a record deal, writing songs, playing out, and people kept coming to see us.

You had no idea you had several hits on your hands?

Goodness, no. All we knew is that they were good songs. At the time we were in clubs, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" was a hit. We didn’t think "Hold My Hand" was gonna do anything like what it did.

That’s incredible because "Hold My Hand" sounds like you're addressing a mass audience with those first lines. It’s hard to imagine singing those to just your bandmates in an intimate space.

We were auditioning drummers, and Soni [Jim Sonefeld] said "I want to write songs with you guys," and  he played "Hold My Hand" for us. And we said, "That’s a good song, you're in the band."

That's dangerous to bring a song like that to an audition. What if you guys just took it and didn't call him back?

[Laughs.] That wouldn’t have been cool!

How much of the backlash do you attribute to just the name "Hootie & The Blowfish"? You played with Dave Matthews Band a lot; have you wondered if you guys were just the Darius Rucker Band…

I’m sure it had a lot to do with it. The backlash had to do with the name of the band and just the raw success and grunge ending and people just being like, "This little pop/rock band from South Carolina telling me to hold their f**kin’ hand." [Laughs.]

You don’t have a backlash that big unless people were affected by the music so, you know, it’s okay. Thriller is the number-one selling record in this country, and it sold what, 28 million copies? That means 322 million people didn’t like it. [Laughs.] People who don’t like it, I don’t care.

There must have been pressure on you guys to do something different with your sound.

We've talked about it, but anytime we played any kind of songs, they just sounded like us. Atlantic sucked as a label, they treated us like sh*t, but that’s a record label.

What were some of the crazier things they tried to pressure you to do?

Well first, to change the name. To be honest with you, not much. We got a lot of good stuff in the rejection letters that we got back, but once we got to Atlantic, it was just "do your own thing."

Did you ever think about changing the name?

We definitely had a conversation about it, but we were already doing so well in the Carolinas and on the East Coast, it was too late. If we changed our name we would've had to start over.

When's the last time you spoke to the college classmates you named the band after?

We were friends! But I haven't spoken to those guys in decades, it’s been 20-something years. VH1 did a whole half-hour show on those guys.

Cracked Rear View is one of the best-selling albums of all time, but you guys still feel like underdogs. What song on it have you always wished would get more attention?

There were still songs on that record that we thought would be a good single, but we stopped that record, you know? If it was up to our record label, they would've gone with another single or two. But we were ready to move on and do something else. "I'm Goin' Home" I thought would’ve made a good single.

Do you think Cracked Rear View is your best album?

Oh no, I don’t. [2003’s] Hootie and the Blowfish I liked a lot, and [2005’s] Looking for Lucky I liked a lot, too. Those are two great records. But the first record was the biggest record so people always say that, and we’re cool with that. We’re still kids from the University of South Carolina who got real lucky, people are still talking about us 25 years later, that’s pretty cool.

"Drowning" was campaigning against the confederate flag at the South Carolina statehouse 25 years ago. Did more people comment on your political lyrics in 1994 or do you find newer audiences now pay more attention to that?

No, I don’t think most people really got how political our records were. I mean, I always say “Hold My Hand” was a protest song. If you listen to the words, it just was. But no one ever got that because everybody was too fixated on… “God, this new band, I love it” or they were too fixated on hating this new band. [Laughs.] When people like you actually bring that up it shocks me because I always thought we were a very political band and nobody got it.

Did your political lyrics raise more eyebrows when you began a solo career in the country world?

Nah, not really. When I got into country, some people were like, "This guy from Hootie & The Blowfish…" but it was really like a brand-new start. When you listen, it's not like I was making that big of a jump anyway. No one ever really brought it up.

Country has a way of embracing artists from other worlds who aren't what’s necessarily considered hip, like Jimmy Buffett had kind of a big country revival, and the alt-rock band Lit, and you’ve scored some serious solo hits.

It’s really funny how Kid Rock had that big hit, and you said Buffett, "It’s 5'O'Clock Somewhere." I was really surprised because all I wanted to do was make records, I wasn’t really counting on any success to be honest with you. When it did happen, I was shocked.

Listening back, something like [Cracked Rear View’s] "Running From an Angel," could’ve fit right onto one of your solo albums.

Oh yeah, absolutely. When you listen to [Hootie] records you can feel that country influence because I was definitely listening to some country at that time.

Do you feel like the country world has gotten more welcoming for non-white artists?

Oh, absolutely. When I came in, it was the first time in 25 years an African-American hit the top 25, and then it the first time in 25 years that an African-American was in the top 10. Women and guys coming up, they're getting a chance. I don’t know if I broke down a barrier, but maybe now these singers of color, an A&R guy will give their tape a listen.

Are you a fan of "Old Town Road"?

I love that song! That song is like "Who Let the Dogs Out," who doesn’t like it? If you say you don’t like that song, you’re lying. You get a song like that, where kids everywhere are singing it… a song can get big with adults, but when you get the kids buying it and saying, "Mom, put on 'Old Town Road'," that’s a smash.

I think a swath of my generation considers Hootie to be the ultimate "dad" rock. What do your own kids think of the band? Do they have any awareness of how massive you guys truly were at one time?

Not really. They’ve never really known anything else but their dad as a musician, you try to explain that to them and they don't get it.

Ed Sheeran wrote for the upcoming Hootie album. Did your Nashville career help open Hootie up to outside songwriters?

Our last couple records we sat around and wrote with some people, that’s something we do now. Nashville, everyone’s inspired. You could write a song at any time. It might be a shitty song, but you could write one right now. [Laughs.] It’s totally different there for sure. I love it, I’m excited for people to hear this record.

Have you thought about writing songs for other people?

I’ve done sessions to write for other folks, but every time, the song was so good I ended up taking it for myself. [Laughs.]

Have you seen the Key and Peele sketch…

Love ‘em, love ‘em, love ‘em. I’ve seen ‘em all and I laugh every time. That line he had where he walked into a room of white people and said he knew exactly how Darius Rucker felt? Frickin' hilarious.

Are you a fan of any artists that would surprise people?

Musically? Barry Manilow. I don’t like him; I love him. I saw him live a couple years ago and he blew my face off. He was 72, dancing the whole time. I was sitting there in the audience going, "This is f**king incredible."

Is there any angry music that you like?

Ahhh…I don’t have any angry music! [Laughs.] I listen to the Notorious Big! [ed. note: he pronounces it “big”]

That’s fitting because you guys were two of the most influential stars of 1995, in completely different worlds.

Yeah, it’s funny you said that because I didn’t realize until recently that [Hootie] and gangsta rap happened at the same time.

Was there great music you felt you missed at the time?

Oh yeah, most of hip-hop! I listened to Dwight Yoakam and Lyle Lovett and Tim McGraw. Going back now I’m listening to Wu-Tang and being like, "Where the hell was I?" [Laughs.]

Well, you were topping the charts and singing to millions. Have any hip-hop artists ever reached out to collaborate or sample you?

No, they haven’t, and that’s one of the last things on my bucket list, to sing the hook on a really big rap record. I had this fantasy that Eminem was gonna call me, I thought that would be really cool to sing on an Eminem song. But I’m not holding my breath for that one.

That would be amazing. I mean, it seems more plausible now in a post-"Old Town Road" world.

I’m surprised he didn’t call me for that record, but I thought Billy Ray was a good choice.

Maybe you should call Lil Nas X and hop on another remix?

Nah, man, he’s gotta get another hit now!

You could write it for him.

I could write it with him.

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