Oak Felder

Oak Felder

Photo: Krystyna Felder

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Producer/Songwriter Oak Felder Wants The Music Industry To Support Creativity, Not Just Hits

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"The model needs to change to reflect that writers get paid for records that, even if they aren't big smashes, we get back to getting paid at a level that they will be allowed to live," Felder recently told the Recording Academy
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jul 12, 2019 - 10:20 am

GRAMMY-nominated producer/songwriter Warren "Oak" Felder knows how to craft Top 10 hits—including Alessia Cara's "Here" and "Scars To Your Beautiful" and Demi Lovato's "Sorry Not Sorry," to name just a few. Though he has the skills and experience to craft top-charting songs, he passionately believes that the music industry should foster an environment that ensures all creatives get paid—not just the ones dominating the airwaves.  

"I think it's important for creators of music to be able to create music and make a living off of it. Because right now, the only way that you are going to be able to do your job and make money to live off of is if you're getting hits," Felder recently told the Recording Academy. "How many records do you have in your life that you listened to that weren't singles, but are just as meaningful to you?"

The Los Angeles-based, Istanbul-born alt-rock lover is also dedicated to the art of mentorship and paving the way for younger creatives. Last month, he led one of the GRAMMY Museum's Summer Sessions, speaking to a theater full of high school students hopeful to pursue songwriting careers. We sat down with Felder to find out what he learned from the students, why he believes in music education and his biggest piece of advice for aspiring musicians and songwriters/producers.

You just wrapped up the GRAMMY Summer Session program. How'd it go?

Fantastic. I was sort of awed by just the concept of it. Those kids are awesome. And the program is fantastic.

Were there any good questions from the kids, or something else that stood out to you from it?

Yeah. So one of the questions really focused on working in the studio with an artist, on bringing an artist story to the forefront and how to do that.

I feel like people forget that production and music is so psychological and they say, "Oh, well you just go in the studio, you make a beat, you write a song and you record." People forget there's a psychology to it. So that awareness surprised me. I don't think I was aware of that until I was older and much less dumb than I was when I was a kid.

Music education is SO important, but often ignored or defunded in public schools. Why do you think music education is important?

I think the kids that learn how to play the piano and play some sort of instrument when they're younger develop and demonstrate better cognitive abilities as an adult. And I think it's something that serves you, even if you're not a musician afterwards. If you've learned how to play the piano and you forgot, you still created the pathways in your brain that allow you to solve different problems, probably more efficiently than other people would.

Creativity is very important for coping with life in general. If you have an early relationship with music, it makes music as a coping mechanism a little better for you. So, education and music would apply to society as a whole. Being born and raised in another country where music is a focus educationally, I definitely see a difference between a place that doesn't focus on it as much from an educational standpoint, and a place that does.

How do you integrate teaching and mentorship into your work in the music industry?

I consider myself a natural teacher because I like to talk a lot. You kind of have to show people the ropes. I have a guy assigned to me that I consider it my responsibility to teach him. Even beyond that, after I'm done with production, I think I would continue to teach it afterwards. I definitely have the gray hairs to match with professorship, so I'm definitely going to try for that. I think teaching is important, otherwise, we'd all be sort of aimlessly walking around figuring things out by trial and error.

Did you have any mentors when you were first starting out in the industry?

The first one that comes to mind is my oldest brother Dennis. He's an amazing musician and a great guy. He definitely was an inspiration to me. I feel like I've been following him my whole life, trying to be as good as he is. I'm still not, but I'm getting there.

Another early mentor for me was an R&B producer, guy named Teddy Bishop. He gave me my initial view of what being a record producer is like, the template for what it's supposed to look like. I've been applying that to what I've been doing since.

How do you think people within the music industry can foster a more collaborative, inclusive environment?

I think there is still the perception of corruption in the music industry. I think that the day that I am not surprised when a woman walks up to me and says, "I am a producer." That shouldn't be a surprise. The moment we can get ourselves to that point as creatives, we will diversify and mutate the state of music to a point of amazingness. Because for every idea that comes from a stereotypical producer, there's an idea that wasn't heard from someone who's not a typical producer. That's going to add to the culture when we finally get to that point. I think that should be everybody's focus.

Do you have a vision to help ensure more diverse groups are working in the studio?

Absolutely. I needed somebody for my team who did pop music very well as a producer. So I asked a friend of mine if he knew anybody and he pointed me to this producer named Zaire [Koalo] Simmons from South L.A. You wouldn't typically associate a young black producer as being somebody who is immediately capable of doing pop music at a high level. You do have black producers who are capable of doing pop music. This kid floored me. And then I was like, "Well, do you do urban tracks?" And he blew me away again.

So the rule is, give everyone a shot. Because the real thing is talent, it doesn't really matter who it comes from. It's almost like a cheat because you get to look in places that other people might not be looking. And you'll find gems that exist there.

Zaire Koalo, Oak Felder & Nelly

L-R: Zaire, Oak & Nelly | Photo: Courtesy of artist

So, being conscious about when you're opening the door and that you're not just looking to the usual suspects.

Yeah. That's really important. Plus, it's our responsibility to mutate the culture. And the only way to do it is if people who typically don't have a voice are given one. That's our responsibility. I take that seriously.

You've worked with a pretty major, diverse group of artists. What's the biggest thing you've learned so far in your time collaborating as a songwriter/producer?

What I've learned is that the lack of an ego is a superpower. I'm a believer that anybody at any moment could have a better idea than you will ever have.

So I think humility is what gives you the ears to hear that idea. There have been times where I had a clear concept, direction and vision for what I want it to be. And I walked in the room and somebody says, "We should do this." My immediate reaction is no, that's not what I wanted.

[But you have to] put down your ego. That's the biggest thing that I've learned. Your ego has no space in a room of collaborators. You leave that mother***er at the door.

So, if you have 10 people in a room, and everyone has an idea, how do you foster an environment where everybody is listening, is collaborating, and isn't getting upset when their idea moves to the side?

First of all, if there's 10 people in the room, some of them are going to leave. It's easier to manage smaller groups of people. And then splits end up a little bit better if there's less people in the room. But yeah, if somebody has an idea, it gets out there.

You know what's funny, everybody has developed the concept of, "let me throw an idea out and if the room responds, then it sticks. If the room doesn't respond, no one says anything." You're in the room and people are writing songs and somebody goes, "Wearing leather pants." And it's silence, that idea was not a good idea.

So a room full of people who've figured that out, have learned how to regulate themselves, as a collective, works. That's what music is, a collective of creation. We're learning how to function as one unit, especially people you have good chemistry with.

What's your favorite part then about the collaborative process?

Self-discovery. And allowing the music that you make to do the same thing for yourself that it does for other people, through realizing other people's perspectives.

The story behind that is, I was in Jamaica working with Alicia Keys, she had invited a lot of us to come out and work for her project. I'm in a room with one of my producers and Miguel, who was there as a songwriter. He and I hadn't worked together up until that point. We're at this beautiful location, sitting at a table, just me, Miguel, Alicia and a couple other people. We're having a conversation about our biggest fears, going around the table.

Death is one of my biggest fears, beyond a person's rational fear of death. It gives me anxiety to even think about. I had no way of controlling that anxiety until I said "I'm scared of death." And Miguel goes, "You're scared of death? So you would want to live forever?" And I say, "Of course I would."

He was like, "Why? Where's the rush to do anything meaningful if you lived forever? If you were going to live forever, you'd probably have the most boring, unfulfilled existence."

He adds, "There's no fun in forever." And Alicia said, "That's a song." We ended up doing a song called "Where's the Fun in Forever" [by Miguel featuring Keys]. To this day, there's three songs I've produced that are my favorite and that's one of them. Because after we did the record, that anxiety lessened every time I thought about or listened to that song.

I can mark that as the first time that my own music has done for me, what other people's music, or my music, has done for other people. It's the collaboration with other people and learning their perspectives that I'm so grateful for because now I have a tool that allows me to deal with a difficult thought.

How do you foster that kind of collaborative space where everyone feels safe to share their ideas? And to talk about the things that are raw and kind of scary but can really get those amazing songs and emotions?

I think it's about trust. When a person comes to my studio, especially if it's somebody that I've never met before, I have to expose my own vulnerabilities first. To give them the signal, look this a safe space. What that ends up doing is it gives the artist an opportunity to tell me things about their personal life they would never in a million years want anyone else to know. So that we can then take those stories and turn them into music, because that's the process.

But it starts with you being comfortable enough to expose your own vulnerabilities and hoping not to be judged for whatever they are. And like I said, having no ego is a superpower, because the ego is what gets in the way of being able to do that initially.

And then you have a session where people sit in a room and it's kind of awkward, nobody's saying anything. Where it's, "So what are you working on?" "Same sh*t you're working on." As opposed to, "I woke up this morning and I was feeling like crap because my dad called me," etc. You're having this kind of conversation with somebody that you've just met. It's a disarming thing to be that vulnerable with somebody else. And when they see that they open up as well.

That's the key, vulnerability, because it creates trust. And puts them in a position where they're able to say, "You know what, let's write a song about this thing that I experienced, that I would never in a million years tell anyone, but let's write a song with that energy in it." A lot of my biggest records are records that have been written that way.

That's really cool; leading by example and setting the tone.

Absolutely. I think the best kind of leader is the one that leads from the front.

So what's your biggest piece of advice for young, aspiring artists? What about for young songwriters and/or producers, those who are more behind the scenes?

I say this to everyone: Know your history. Current music is the tip of the iceberg, it's being supported by a large group of music that proceeded it. If you are a rapper, then you should know why Tupac is important, why disco is important, and why a break beat is important and how it contributed to the culture.

Actually, my partner (Andrew "Pop" Wansel) just produced a song for Nicki Minaj that samples a classic dancehall record (called "Filthy Riddim"). This record is historically and traditionally a song that will always get the club popping, but the newer audiences haven't been exposed to it yet.

What do you want your legacy to be?

I want people to remember that he was a nice guy. And I want people who are successful in the industry to be able to turn around and say, Oak helped me do this. That's my biggest dream, wish, goal. Because I want, in 20 or 15 years, to be able to be the person who gave a shot to someone who made a difference. And in so doing that, make a difference myself.

What's your biggest hope for the trajectory of the music industry, the biggest thing that you wish to see that isn't happening yet or is just starting to happen?

I want us to get paid. I'm part of the MLC [the Music Licensing Collective], and I think it's important for creators of music to be able to create music and make a living off of it. Because right now, the only way that you are going to be able to do your job and make money to live off of is if you're getting hits. That wasn't the case in the '80s or in the '90s; you could've produced three records on an album that weren't necessarily singles. How many records do you have in your life that you listened to that weren't singles, but are just as meaningful to you?

In today's cultural climate, that is starting to become a thing of the past. Because the economic structure of the music industry only rewards people who have big singles, which means the big singles are the only ones that influence culture, i.e., there's no album record that really speaks to people.

And think about this: From a creative standpoint, when I get in the studio and I know the only thing that's going to make money is a big hit smash, that's all I'm focused on making. I'm not gonna make the "Where's The Fun In Forever" record, which wasn't a single, it was an album cut on that album. But it's a record that affected me and it probably affected other people in the same way. Those don't exist with the current model anymore.

The model needs to change to reflect that writers get paid for records that, even if they aren't big smashes, we get back to getting paid at a level that they will be allowed to live. That is my single biggest wish for the music industry right now.

Meet Ericka Coulter, The Inspirational Music Exec Amplifying Rising Talent With TheBasement

Ellie Goulding

Ellie Goulding

Photo: Recording Academy

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Ellie Goulding Talks Songwriting, Loving Skrillex & Björk & Growing Up On Electronic Music

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"If I could be described as being a musician that gave people hope, then I'd be really happy," the GRAMMY-nominated pop singer/songwriter told the Recording Academy in the latest episode of Up Close & Personal
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jun 27, 2019 - 2:38 pm

Looking back at the music that British pop singer/songwriter Ellie Goulding has put out over the last decade, it's clear that her powerful voice works well on all types of tracks. The GRAMMY nominee is the perfect vocalist for EDM bangers like "I Need Your Love," from Calvin Harris' 2012 GRAMMY-nominated heater 18 Months, and Skrillex's "Summit," from his 2011 GRAMMY-winning rave album, Bangarang, as well as for more laid-back, piano-backed love songs like "Flux" and "How Long Will I Love You."

Jun 27, 2019 – 2:28 pm

Ellie Goulding On Songwriting, Skrillex & More

Her latest single, "Hate Me," released June 26, showcases her prowess as a collaborator with rappers. On the new track, the songstress links up with rising rap star Juice WRLD, as the pair stands up to unappreciative lovers.

Goulding recently stopped by the Recording Academy headquarters for an in-depth conversation in our latest episode of Up Close & Personal, which you can watch above and check out on our YouTube page for a longer version of the video, as well as the other recent episodes. Read on to learn how she feels when she looks back on the songs she's written over the last decade, what it was like to work with Diplo and Skrillex and how she's always loved electronic music. She also explains her reaction to hearing GRAMMY nominee Björk for the first time, why environmental activism is so important to her and more.

Your most recent music video, for "Sixteen," is really sweet. Can you talk about the story and message behind it?

Well, I wrote "Sixteen" a few years ago and really it was about the idea that you develop yourself around that age. Well, for me anyway, it was really the age that I was discovering everything about myself and becoming who I am in a way. It was a pivotal time where I was figuring out music I really loved and friends and suddenly falling madly, deeply, uncontrollably in love with people. That song really was intended to be a nostalgic celebration and the video is about two friends who have this very close relationship.

I think now, it's so much more, not acceptable, but you can be so much more open with your friendships and it's okay to have a really close friendship with someone of the same sex or with anyone and there's no black and white anymore, which is great. I had those really close friendships with my girlfriends at that age and then some of my girlfriends are still with the person that they fell in love with at that age and they're now in their 30s and have kids with this person that they met at that age.

You've put out a lot of huge tracks over the past nine years, all the way back to "Starry Eyed" in 2010. What are a few of your personal favorites? Has your relationship with your earlier tracks changed over the years?

Oh my gosh. My relationship with all of my early songs has changed. I only get them out on very special occasions. When I listen back to the songs and the lyrics, I do feel a bit silly at some of the lyrics. I feel like they're kind of immature and they're a real marker of that time, where I feel like I didn't know anything about anything and I would write a very naïve perspective of what I thought love was. When I think back to those situations, I think that actually was me a lot of the time in the raw or me doing something stupid. In the song, I maybe portray it as differently or the other person's fault. I do think about my old songs a lot in that way, but I don't regret writing them. Once time has passed, I keep having to move on with songs. They're real markers in the book that I keep writing. It's very hard for me to go back in time with them, but "Anything Could Happen" is a big favorite because I just remember being in such a happy place when I wrote it.

It was melancholy because I had just broken up with somebody, which as we all know is for some reason the most painful thing in the world, but at the same time I was back in my hometown writing with somebody that also lives in my hometown and we just came up with this song, and whenever I play it live it just has this euphoria and brings everyone together and I see people in the crowd just so happy and it has some kind of rave element to it that makes everyone go a little bit crazy. Yeah, so I have such good memories of that song and it was also just one of those songs I wrote in half an hour. It just happened. I also am very proud of the song "Flux," which I played earlier. I was just proud of myself for the honesty and the way that I managed to capture what I was feeling.

Sometimes I'm like, "God, do I really want to write this about this person?" but sometimes I just have to tell the truth and even if it shows how emotional I am or shows my true colors or whatever, it just has to happen. That was one of those moments with that song. I'm proud of all the songs I've written. I'm proud of the huge cheesy pop songs and I'm proud of the more obscure weird ones, like when I first released a song called "Under the Sheets" on an EP with a song called "Fighter Plane," and I'm proud of how I was thinking at that age. I was maybe 20 and I was already writing in a somewhat mature way. [Laughs.] I'm having a proud moment.

It's like the songs are the chapters of your life, and while the stories are super specific to you, so many people can relate to them.

I think subconsciously I've always written with other people in mind. Not in the sense that I want to please people, but I love the idea of providing people with a resolution, or with some kind of consolation for what they're going through. Music is one of the most powerful things in the world and we all speak its language. When I write lyrics, I understand how much of an impact they can have on people, so I'm always aware of that. When I'm writing about a breakup or I'm writing about the state of the world or the planet or whatever, I try and make it hopeful. If I could be described as being a musician that gave people hope, then I'd be really happy.

"If I could be described as being a musician that gave people hope, then I'd be really happy."

You've worked with some really big names in dance music: Diplo, Skrillex and Calvin Harris, to name a few. Can you talk a little bit about what you've learned working with those producers?

I think collaboration in general is somewhere you learn about yourself and you learn about compromise and it makes you realize how much of a unique artist you are because you're never just going to go in and have completely the same opinions on things and artistic ideas or directions. It's a learning curve, working with other people. I've written with writers where we both agree that it's not right; it was great to meet you, but it didn't quite gel well. Sometimes I write with writers where we're best friends by the next day and we're texting every day. There's some people that I feel so comfortable with, which is not that many people, that I just text them lyrics and say, "What do you think about this?," or send ideas or voice notes.

Diplo is someone I've gone back to. He's completely bat sh*t crazy. [Laughs.] But he's funny and he does respect artist's individuality, so he's really great to work with. And you know whatever he's going to do is going to be completely fresh and new and no one else has done it.

And then Skrillex, when I first met him, he was a pioneer in electronic music. Actually, I really feel like he was a new sound, he was refreshing and I was completely fascinated and completely enthralled by what he was doing and I just wanted to be a part of that. I have such an affinity for electronic music and since I was a kid, my mom listened to lots of rave music and dance music and we had a very specific phase in the U.K. in London, especially of dance music.

We had garage and then we had deep house and we like to think of ourselves as having a very unique place in music in that sense in London. I was completely inspired by that growing up. I only discovered musicians and people playing instruments in bands when I was a teen. I never listened to The Beatles. I never listened to Fleetwood Mac. I never listened to Bob Dylan, so it was just a sensory overload by the time I listened to all these singers like Stevie Nicks, Joni Mitchell, that it was a new world. That's probably when I realized that I could be a singer because I had this really unusual voice that I didn't know could be a thing until I heard other singers with unique voices and lyrics and honesty and I thought, "Oh, I could do this."

Is there a specific moment where you remember an artist that you listened to that you then thought, "Oh, I could have a place in music"?

Yeah, I came home one night and I was a bit drunk and I think we'd been out camping somewhere in a field. I grew up in the middle of nowhere. I switched on the TV. Tiny box TV at the time and Björk was singing on stage somewhere. I think maybe at the Albert Hall in London. I just remember being completely transfixed. I'd never seen anyone sing or perform like it before. All of a sudden I'd gone from listening to pop singers. I loved Lauryn Hill. I loved Alicia Keys. I loved Beyoncé. I loved Destiny's Child. I loved girl groups, and then I saw this singer and it resonated with me because people had always told me that I shouldn't sing because I had this really unusual voice. It had such a lack of control and I could sing high, I could sing low, I could sing hard, I could sing soft. I could do these crazy things with my voice, but it didn't ever really seem to have a place anywhere and I couldn't write the right songs and nothing seemed to sound right.

When I heard Björk, I suddenly was like she's got this beautifully inventive and unusually curious voice and it suddenly made me feel very powerful, like I could sing after all. It took a few years for people to really get me and some people would come along and listen to me sing. Not that many, but I've played my own songs. I carried on. I just kept singing and playing and I thought I had something maybe because more and more people were coming and at that point, I was able to sing and play effortlessly and not have to think about guitar and it was just there. Then, eventually it clicked after a solid few years of trying to get people to come and watch me play. Eventually I signed a publishing deal to be a writer and then I signed a record deal the year after that. After a long, long time of what we call "fanning around" in the U.K.

Related: Rosalía Shouts-Out Lauryn Hill, Kate Bush And More Women During Latin GRAMMY Speech

That's so cool. I love Björk.

Yeah, I saw her the other night in New York at The Shed. Oh my God, you have to see it, if you can. You can't even for a second lose focus or concentration because there's so much going on and the visuals are 10 years in the future. It's mad.

Do you have any dream collaborators you haven't worked with yet that you'd like to in the future?

I'm a fan of so many different producers and classical composers actually, maybe more than I am of artists, just in the sense that I can see so many possibilities with my voice with musicians and producers, but I'm always open to singing with other singers too. There's electronic producers I've always wanted to do things with; Jamie XX I've loved forever. One day he'll work with me. Mura Masa, I love. I love this guy George FitzGerald from the U.K. I love Frank Dukes, who makes a bunch of records here in L.A. There's a guy called Arca, who just did Björk's latest record.

There's actually a guy serpentwithfeet, who I love, who I discovered relatively recently. His voice is out of this world and he's a beautiful pianist, so maybe one day I'll work with him. I love experimenting and I love this classic producer and composer called Ola Gjeilo, who based in New York, he's from Norway, makes beautiful music. And then there's the classics like Hans Zimmer and Lisa Gerrard. My dream is to eventually do film soundtracks and go down the Lisa Gerrard road where she's just f***ing cool and just puts her amazing voice on things. You know, in Gladiator she's the voice that you can never forget, and I'd love to do that at some point.

For World Environment Day, you posted on social media encouraging your fans to take action. You've done work with the UN and you've always been vocal about standing up for what you believe in. Can you speak a little bit to using your platform as a catalyst for change?

I do think it's important for me to use my social media to influence young people for the better. Social media can be used for all sorts of weird, wonderful and sometimes not-so-good things. Relatively speaking, I have a small following, but it's enough to get people talking and sharing about the things that I care about. The things that I care about, and what we should all be caring about because it's essentially all of our futures at stake, is protecting the environment, which involves things like cutting massively down on plastic and eating less meat, which is better for the environment. When you think about how much goes into producing meat, but that's a whole other story. Go to my Instagram if you want to know more.

I talk a lot about climate change; it is the biggest threat to our existence. There's never been more CO2 in the atmosphere. Every single year it gets hotter and I think that's enough for us all to be quite scared, but because there is another agenda, a huge agenda in this world to promote climate change as a hoax because of oil, the meat industry, things that are trying to crush it for their own financial advantage. We are the warriors on the other side of that, making it come to light and showing people that what they can do makes a difference individually. I really just try and spread the world that climate change will ultimately be the end of us, if we don't do something about it, which means drastically changing our habits, changing the way we live.

Stop plastic production because that is linked to climate change. We need to eat less meat. We need to stop cutting down forests. We're simply not growing trees quick enough to replace the CO2 that is being created. Ice caps are melting, which means methane and other things being released. Ice caps reflect the sun more, so the less ice there is, the less sunlight is going to reflect it back into space. Ultimately, everything is going to screw us unless we act quickly and it's not like, "Oh, maybe we'll be okay. We'll start acting in a few years." We have 12 years exactly to save the planet, so with that in mind, I do use my social media to try and push that a bit and get people on board with me.

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Backstreet Boys GRAMMY Museum 2019

Backstreet Boys

Photo: Rebecca Sapp | Design: F. Inomata

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Backstreet Boys Talk GRAMMY Museum "Experience," 'Millennium' Legacy & Touring

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As they unveil the interactive 'Backstreet Boys: The Experience' exhibit, we go behind the scenes with the GRAMMY-nominated boy band to look back on their 26 years together
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Apr 18, 2019 - 3:10 pm

On April 8, the Backstreet Boys visited the GRAMMY Museum for a very special evening; the preview night of the newest exhibit there, Backstreet Boys: The Experience. AJ McLean, Howie Dorough, Nick Carter, Kevin Richardson and Brian Littrell all played a part in making the exhibit happen, sorting through old wardrobe trunks to choose which iconic '90s and '00s looks to put on display and sifting through the countless fan photos and homemade memorabilia they've been gifted over their 26-year career.

Apr 18, 2019 – 2:26 pm

Backstreet Boys On New Exhibit, 'Millennium,' More

We went behind the scenes with the GRAMMY-nominated group right after they explored the newly set up exhibit for the first time, as they reflected on who BSB is today, their legacy, having fun in Las Vegas and their excitement for the DNA World Tour. Or, as McLean put it, their "biggest tour in 18 years," in support of 2019's DNA.

"I think [The Experience] is gonna surprise a lot of people, bring back a lot of memories…if you're a fan, this plays homage to you," Carter told us about the new exhibit. "[There's] a lot of things you can interact with, but just really cool things that remind people who the Backstreet Boys are and where we've come from, so it's a cool experience."

Speaking of looking back, the group also discussed the 20th anniversary of their record-breaking album Millennium, which was the best-selling album of 1999.

"Millennium is probably, to this day, one of the biggest album's we've ever had. I think if we weren't on the map by that time in most people's eyes and ears, we were definitely at that point," Dorough said. "I think that itself is what's continued the legacy of the Backstreet Boys."

Backstreet Boys: The Experience is currently on display at the GRAMMY Museum L.A. Live in Downtown Los Angeles until Sept. 2. Learn how and when to have your special BSB experience on the Museum's website.

LANY Is The Modern, Thoughtful Pop Group The World Needs Right Now

Ericka Coulter

Ericka Coulter

Photo: Bre Jones/Courtesy of TheBasement

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Meet Ericka Coulter, The Inspirational Music Exec Amplifying Rising Talent With TheBasement

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"I see more women being empowered, more women being highlighted. I see different types of artists being signed that usually would be stereotyped. I just love it," Coulter told us, reflecting on the changes she sees happening in the industry
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jul 2, 2019 - 3:52 pm

Kansas-born, L.A.-based music executive Ericka Coulter is one of those magical people who connects instantly, makes you feel like a lifelong friend and surrounds herself with an incredible crew. Above all, she is someone who turns visions into reality.

As the VP of A&R at Epic Records, Coulter not only represents big name artists such as Rick Ross, she also highlights rising talent with the event series/industry movement she launched in 2017, TheBasement. Her vision is to help connect emerging talent with what they need to keep growing—excited fans to support them, a label to amplify their work, a manager to rep them, a cool brand to partner with—and to offer them a vibey space to share their music.

Right before the doors opened for the June edition of TheBasement's artist showcase event series, Ericka sat down with the Recording Academy to discuss the spark that started it, how she stays grounded while always moving, her best advice for young artists and music professionals and more.

After the conversation, the doors opened and the exposed-brick space in downtown L.A. quickly became packed and bustling with energy, as the city's hip music creators, professionals and most in-the-know fans waited for the first artist to take the stage. The events take place, popup-style, in different spaces around the city and partner with an exciting mix of music companies and other brands. The June event celebrated Black Music Month and the BET Experience, featuring a stacked lineup of AWAL artists from their new Urban roster.

TheBasement June 2019

Attendees at TheBasement June 2019 | Photo: Bre Jones/​Courtesy of TheBasement

When did you first discover your calling for working in music?

I'm from Kansas, so I grew up listening to gospel music, and that's really where it started. Like, okay this is what makes me happy. I love to just be around it. But when I came out to L.A., I went to school for fashion and got a degree in fashion merchandising. I loved what I was doing in that, too, but my calling was always that I want to just be in music. I want to put together products. I want to close deals. I want to help people.

At one point I was trying to be an artist and had a couple of sketchy managers, let's say, that weren't the best. If anything, that made me want to go harder to be that person that, if people ever cross my desk, they wouldn't have to go through those things.

But as you get into this, you learn some things are out of your control. It's a process, and not everything works out exactly how you want it to. But if you know that your intentions are good, that's what keeps you sane. And it's like, you know, I know where my heart was. I know why I did it, although it may not have worked.

Did you have any mentors along the way that made you feel like you were on the right path?

Oh, absolutely. I got to work at Interscope during some of the most amazing moments. When Lady Gaga was discovered and Mary J. Blige, Keyshia Cole, Black Eyed Peas and Eminem were all fire. It was just so much all at once, and to see what Jimmy Iovine did, even building Beats.

To see what Beats turned into now, and for Apple Music to be so influential in today's culture, it's incredible. So to see him do that, and when I started I worked for a guy named Step Johnson who was the President of Urban Music. I can honestly say that from him, I learned how to be in this and also know that you can get out at some point, but leave a legacy. And I think that's the most important part, like "what are you doing this for?"

When I was working on Rick Ross' last album, Rather You Than Me, we were in the studio one day and JAY-Z was there, and he was talking about his last project, 4:44. He was playing a couple of records before it dropped and the main thing that he was saying was like, "Yo, you can't be in this if you're not doing it for something." Like as much as we love music because it makes us feel good, what are you doing it for? What are you wanting to leave behind? 

And after that, it just made me look at things differently, okay, why am I going so hard? That's what led to TheBasement. 



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Can you speak a little more to the beginnings of TheBasement and the spark that lead you to starting it?

I wanted to create an environment for people to network, vibe and discover. A room where artist can meet the right people to help them move forward. So maybe you leave TheBasement Series with a record deal out the gate. But maybe you leave with a manager, attorney, producer or writer; something else to help you move further. That's what made me be like, "Okay, there's a need for this."

I found my first sponsor, and then our first venue, a photo gallery. And that's been our thing, to find venues that people wouldn't regularly perform at, something that didn't feel so familiar. Somewhere you can feel inspired, and learn about new artists. Where is it at that you feel like you're discovering something, that you don't feel like it's familiar or that you know what it's going to be. You want to go and feel either inspired or like "I didn't know that person was that dope and I'm going to come back." Or "Now I'm going to go look up that person and start listening to their music." That's what I want you to leave with.

Lu Kala performs at TheBasement June 2019

Lu Kala performs at TheBasement June 2019 | Photo: Bre Jones/​Courtesy of TheBasement

What are some lessons you've learned along the way? I'm sure it's one of those things that keeps going, but could you speak to TheBasement's growth a little bit?

This was literally an idea that has not become a movement that I feel is my responsibility to keep it going.

The one thing that I had to learn is that every conversation is not going to turn into that deal that you wanted it to turn into. But you can't let that stop you. There's been moments where I feel like other people probably would have given up. Where I feel like I'm showing it to you exactly what it is, but you're still not getting it; but I'm a true believer in that whatever is for me is going to be for me. God is going to make sure that happens, and when that door doesn't open that just wasn't the door that was supposed to be there. And no hard feelings, you know what I mean? It is what it is.

I think when you have that mentality, you're going to make it work. Cool, all right, that person, that sponsor didn't come through right now, we're going to get this sponsor, and we're going to put this together. Or you know I've been blessed to have a team of kids that literally we can take $50 and make it look really good. Sometimes too good, but you know that's what makes you be like, okay I'm not doing it for nothing; there's no way that something this good is not going to get where it needs to be.

I use metaphors for a lot of things, but it's like cooking chicken. You cook the chicken, it starts to look really good on the outside, you might open it up just to check on it, and it might be a little pink inside, that means we not ready yet. So we cooking. And we're going to cook until it's time. When that timer hits off, and it's time to go, people will feel it.

So you have two pretty major jobs; how do you stay grounded when you're always moving?

Right. My faith is strong. My parents are in Kansas City and they've built me up to be strong. And you know, you just never look at something like it was a failure. You always look at it like, all right cool, that just wasn't it. So we're going to figure out the next one, but I have a really good team of friends and a foundation around me that even if I wanted to beat myself up, they wouldn't even allow me to do it. And I think that's the thing, and you don't realize that you really have friends. Because you can have a group of people around you. You can throw a party and everyone will be there, but to have people that you actually call your friends. Like who you invite to your house when you have on no makeup and don't feel like putting on clothes. Those are your friends. You know?

They make me feel secure and even when I am down on myself they'll talk to me like, "You're bugging. Like are you serious right now? I'm not going to have this pity party with you. So cry, get your thug tears out for a couple minutes, and then we back at it again."

As cliché as that may sound I think it's just important. Because everyone in L.A. is always from somewhere different so if you don't have that little core team of people, although we may be from different places, that is your family, it's a struggle. Like I'm not going to lie. Like sometimes, you don't have the balance. I still don't know what the balance is even, but I feel like some days when I can just breathe and be like, "All right."

Sitting with you here right now, usually, I'd be like, "Girl, I can't do this because I got to figure out what's going on in there." But I have to trust my team. And I have to trust that they know that I've got them and they got me.

When you are working on a project like this, where it's something you created from the ground up, how do you bring in people that you know are going to work with your vision and keep the vibes positive?

I'm honest with what our vision is. This is no disrespect, but this is not a talent show, and I think you have to look at it in that way to know what type of talent you want in there, what the vibe is supposed to be. That sets the tone, especially in Los Angeles. That'll make you like, "Am I leaving my house?" Because you know people are in their bubbles and I think when I've been honest with my team about that, and then they've seen the results of it, that people need motivation and inspiration as well. For my team, some of the people I don't even get to see until the next Basement, because we're all so busy, but I can count on them. For them it's like, "TheBasement's coming, I have something to look forward to. I have something that I'm a part of that's growing."

I always tell them, "This is not just for me; this is all of us. If you're a part of this team, and you're going into an interview you tell them, I'm a part of TheBasement. I'm your reference. Use me as much as you can so that I can help you or it will be pointless." I think that's why we've been able to form the talent that's coming on the stage, to the team that I'm building or even the sponsors that are coming on now. Because there are brands out there that want to support the emerging artist.

Yes, you need the artists that are already established because that is something that is a part of it as well, but we also got to help these acts that like don't have it yet, that are really, really talented, and they just need their moment. So if they can get their moment on TheBasement stage, I did my job, and that makes me go to sleep at night. Knowing I may not have been able to take over the world, every project might not be perfect, but at least I was able to give somebody some hope, because hope is what keeps us going.

What's your favorite part of your jobs?

Favorite part, I would have to say, from the A&R side of things, is when you get to hear the finished product and everybody else agrees on what you heard. Because sometimes we can move with our hearts and then sometimes you've got to move with your ears. So it's exciting to get the finished products of that part of it. For TheBasement, it's exciting when these artists get off the stage or they hit me up, like, "That was a moment for me, E. Thank you." And some of them have already been performing on stages, but I think it's just such a home kind of feel, like it makes you feel like you're at a party with your friends. And you get to just be free, be yourself, rock out and not overthink it, and that's what this is supposed to be.

Is it important to you to have TheBasement be a safe space, sort of a container for creativity? If so, how do you foster that?

Yeah, it's definitely a safe haven for creatives. And even for the people that work within the industry that come in here. For them, they're like, "Hey, there's a lot of people in there that are from different industries, but I don't feel like I'm at an industry event. I feel like I'm at a kickback." And that's when I was like, how can I make one room feel like Atlanta, New York and L.A. all at one time? I get a vibe every time I go to Atlanta. When I go to New York I feel like I can take over the world and when I'm in L.A., it's like, "All right cool, I'm vibing, I'm chilling." That's what I feel what we're creating. I'm still adding on to it, learning every show. There's always something to be like, Okay, we could have done that better.



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What's your biggest hope or vision for TheBasement, in the next six months or year?

To get it on the road, that's been my biggest thing. I want to get this to New York, Atlanta, Toronto. Also, we're working on a lot of content pieces that we're going to be launching very soon and I want to make sure that we get that out too because I don't want people to think that this is just a showcase. It's a movement; I want it to be a creative agency that literally, whatever you need help with we're here to help you, we work with everybody. We're not working against anyone, this is not for us to be the next thing and next that. We want to be that thing that's not there and actually be the glue for a lot of people.

I feel that. I think there's kind of two lines of thought, one is when there's someone at the top, no one else can be up there. That feels counter-intuitive to me, especially if you are living your truth, being honest and helping other people along the way. Do you see that in the music industry, that it's a bit more like, "This is THE person and they're the best"?

I don't want to say it's the music industry. I just think it's industries in a whole. We as people tend to put things into boxes and it's not until you step outside of that box for people to see you. It happens everywhere, not just in entertainment. That's where you have to live your best life and color outside the lines, be humble and be the best you.

I think we all are going to get into coloring outside of the lines. Not only giving people opportunities but also taking risks on ourselves. We get so caught up sometimes in being in one spot and being comfortable, but comfortability is not necessarily going get to the success that we need it to.

"I think we all are going to get into coloring outside of the lines. Not only giving people opportunities but also taking risks on ourselves."

What is your biggest hope for the music industry in the near future, the biggest changes you wish to see?

I think it's happening. I see more women being empowered, more women being highlighted. I see different types of artists being signed that usually would be stereotyped. I just love it. You know, I feel like there is no genre, because all genres are all pretty much going together. You got country music and hip-hop doing records together. You have people redefining themselves doing jazz or doing R&B; to see what things are evolving into is exciting. I know about more R&B singers right now than I've ever known in at least the last two years. There's more festivals, which means more visibility for new artists, which is incredible. Yeah, I think everybody just got to start having fun and not taking this sh*t too seriously. We making music, it's supposed to make us happy and free, and that's all I want.

How do you believe women who work in music can help support each other and other less historically represented groups in the industry?

I think for things like that, it's hard to be like, "Oh, we got to all come together and we got to do this." My girlfriends and I struggle to see each other in person because we're all working so much. But we check in on each other and encourage each other. Sometimes, just sending somebody a text to say, "Hey girl, I don't know what you're going through this week, but I want to let you know that you're going to be great. And whatever it is, we're going to get through it."

Those little things, even if it's a stranger. I might want to send you a text one day and be like, "Just letting you know that today is going to be the day and you're going to be great." I think it's about being more encouraging and also being more vocal if we don't know each other, to reach out to each other and just be, "Hey girl, hey!"

Starting TheBasement, I've met some of the most incredible women in this industry, I didn't even know what they did and they didn't really know what I did, but now like I consider that person a friend or a colleague. I've had more women hit me up and be like, "Hey, just checking on you." That goes a long way because sometimes we get so caught up in this and we'll run ourselves down and we don't check on ourselves or each other. I think that that's important, those little words of encouragement, and I think we're going to get there. And yes, you'll see more things of women coming together and doing things, but I think it starts with just a little gesture of "Hello, how you doing, you need help with anything?"

It's really easy to get caught up in the "I'm so busy and don't have enough time." But you never know what the other person is going through, and that little encouragement could be just what they need to hear to do the thing they're afraid of.

I feel like they can do it. I hope seeing this makes somebody be like, "Okay, I don't have to be just one thing. I can be a lot of multiple things."

Pharrell reinvents himself every year! I mean he's the G.O.A.T., but to see this man take it so many different places, that's my motivation to be like, "Oh I don't need to stop, I just need to be like smarter in the moves that I make and just make them make sense." And have fun while I'm doing it.

What's your biggest piece of advice for young women interested in a career on the business side of the music industry? And what about for an up and coming artist, someone that just isn't really sure how to get their name out there or how to meet the right people?

For that young girl, she has to be fearless, and she has to understand that sometimes it's not going to be that full plan on the vision board just in that order, but you will cross out all those dots, know that.

For that new artist, if you are in a little town somewhere in your bedroom making music, and you've graduated from school, it might be time to move. It might be time to take that risk and go to L.A. or New York or Atlanta. That place that you've been like, "Maybe I'm not ready." Well maybe you are ready, and maybe when you get there you might not be, but at least you did it.

I always tell myself this, "I can go back home. If this sh*t don't work out, my mom will gladly be like, "It's okay; we're going to figure this out." I think that's the beauty of it, just knowing that you can go back home. And if you can't go back home, that's going to make you work harder.

And I think it's also being honest with yourself. If you're an okay singer, let's go to being great, let's get the proper training to do that. Don't just settle to be an okay singer. There are artists like H.E.R. who didn't rush the process. She trained herself, so that now, she's on a roll, because she practiced to be great at whatever it is that she needed to do.

Beyoncé practiced to be a beast. So I think you have to use things like that to be like, "Okay, I can't just be mediocre at it, I've got to be great." And that takes time. It goes back to the chicken. We're cooking, so let's just let it bake, let it get all ready and marinated, and then we'll be ready to go.

Why A&R Matters In The Streaming Era: 7 Women Share Their Experiences

The Veronicas

The Veronicas

Photo: Brian Ziff

News

The Veronicas Talk New Album, Why Performing Pride Is So Important & Coming Of Age In The Music Industry

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"There's something so beautiful about the LGBTQ community in particular. Wherever you go, they're the most supportive, loving crowd…and [at L.A. Pride] they showed up hard for us and it was the best feeling"
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jun 28, 2019 - 4:09 pm

Identical twin sisters Jessica and Lisa Origliasso, born on Christmas Day in Brisbane, Australia, have always had big dreams and strong sense of who they are. They are better known as alt-pop outfit The Veronicas, which they formed in the early '00s after moving to Los Angeles to pursue a career in music when they were just 19.

In 2005, they released their debut album, The Secret Life Of..., along with their breakout single "4ever." They followed up with Hook Me Up in 2007, featuring pop-rock classic "Untouched." Due to issues with their label, they would take a forced hiatus until 2014, when they could finally release new music, which would eventually be their self-titled third album.

Through it all, The Veronicas have remained 100% themselves: bold, confident and creative, always exploring new sounds and styles. They are not only bolstered by the unbreakable bond they have as twins, but also by the support of their fanbase, especially those from the LGBTQ community, as they tell us.

Not long after their breathtaking performance at L.A. Pride, and before they took to the stage at World Pride in N.Y.C. this weekend, the Recording Academy sat down with Jessica and Lisa to learn more about what new music they've been working on, and what performing at Pride means—and feels like—to them. As they finish each other's sentences, they also dive deep into their creative process, the pressures of the music industry, their biggest influences and Jessica's own journey with exploring her sexual identity.

Okay, so let's start with new music. You guys released a new song earlier this year, "Think Of Me," which I think is your first new song in two years. How did it feel to be sharing your music again with the world?

Jessica Origliasso: It's always incredibly inspiring to be releasing new music, and for us, it's like every song is our baby. Everything that we put out is something that we've slaved over in some capacity. "Think of Me" was the beginning of a bigger picture of music that we've created, and it just felt like a relief really to have it out, the first sort of piece of the puzzle, the story.

Lisa Origliasso: Yeah, it's been fun because it has been quite some time since we've actually got in the studio to write an entire album, and we have about an album's worth of material now, but we did it in a relatively short time. So, about six to eight months we just kind of wrote out everything, and, I don't know, the universe is kind of inspired to get us at the right time, inspired writing. None of it was sort of too preplanned. It was just the right pieces fell into place, or the right inspiration was there.

Jessica: Artists that we wanted to collaborate with were available to get in the studio, and it all just sort of worked out that way. So, yeah, it felt right.

Do you want to talk a little bit more about that song specifically, and then maybe about the bigger project as well? What can we expect?

Jessica: When Lisa and I go into write an album, usually we're drawing from a lot of different influences of whatever we are listening to currently, but then also stuff we've been into for a long time. So, because of how much freedom artists have now with music, it was important for us to be able to storytell, and have elements that don't feel forced.

So, because there's so much now to be influenced by, because when we last did an album in such a short period of time, it was our second record [2007's Hook Me Up]. And at that time the Internet and Spotify were not really there. So, you had to go really searching, you had to go to see a lot of live shows and dig around for a lot of underground stuff, which we did at the time. Whereas now there's a lot to pull from.

I think with "Think of Me" in particular, we went in and just wanted to write a song, and make it as sort of simple as possible, and just embody a feeling. So, it was about a feeling, and that feeling came from a personal experience that I was going through that Lisa channeled into, and the other two writers, the producer and the other writer in the room channeled into, and we all just threw a lot of feelings into the middle, and wrote out some stories.

It's very uncensored when you're in a recording room like that. I think maybe because we're twins we have each other's back, and you automatically feel very comfortable. So we tend to throw out the rawest feelings to the room, a lot of people are probably a little shocked. Like, "How are you so comfortable?" But because we have each other, you feel immediately at home. 

Lisa: We've always had that comfortability, and it's what has made us love music so much.

Jessica: I think inspired writing is incredibly important. It's why people go, "Why do you wait so long in between records?" There's actually a really good reason for it. I mean, Adele speaks on it all the time. She's one of my favorites with that because she will not go into the studio and create a record that isn't inspired writing. Because at the end of the day, you can do it. We've done songwriting for 15, almost 16, 17 years now, professionally. So, you can go in and do it…

Lisa: And when you're doing it for other artists, it's maybe easier to do that. But for our record, and a fourth record especially, where you have so much creative freedom, I think it's really important to be able to create it from the most authentic space you can.

Jessica: This record is actually very collaborative-heavy. Over half of the record is collaborations, and we've never done that before. We've never collaborated with anyone before other than each other.

Wow.

Jessica: So, we've got collaborations and then we've also gotten features on other artists' stuff.

Lisa: Which is such an exciting time for us because more music is out there. And that's why we love today's climate with music. It's not just about having to slave over this one album and then you're going to have that for two years. You can get into the studio tomorrow with this awesome DJ, and we just featured on our friend Allday's new single. Even though it's not our release, it feels like our release and our fans are excited, and our fans are turning into his fans, and his fans are turning into our fans, and it's just such a beautiful sort of love fest of collaborations. Those experiences have been really, really fun.

Jessica: But this album has been very influenced by stories, feelings and stories. It's driven by the idea of leaving the past behind and stepping into your power. And there's a lot of '80s influence, there's guitars, there's a lot of emotions...

Lisa: A little dramatic.

Jessica: Bit dramatic, but most of our records are.

Lisa: That's sort of a bit of our blueprint, to be honest.

Jessica: And then there's also like the super-stripped-back, raw, vulnerable feelings in the story. So, it's quite a juxtaposed record. Our next single…[looks to Lisa] We can say the name of it, yeah?

Lisa: Yeah. I mean, I'm always saying yes. I'm like "Yeah, get it out there."

Jessica: Yeah, the next single's called "Life of the Party," and we wrote it about essentially the last 15 years of what it's like when you first come into a space of music, and celebrity, and somewhere like Hollywood, and everyone thinks that it's this particular thing. Everyone's here to be the party. Everyone's here to be the life of everything, the center of attention, and how that becomes old very quickly.

Lisa: The reality of that.

Jessica: What is of true value to you, as people? We wrote this song with our friend, Allday, and the hook is like, "Everybody wants to be the life of the party, but I just want to find somebody. I just want to have something real."

Lisa: It's that sort of feeling, that melancholy sadness intertwined with a lot of '80s pop or hip-hop elements.

You put out your debut album back in 2005. What was it like coming of age in the music industry? How has your growth and personal identities shifted within the context of The Veronicas?

Lisa: Well, we have an incredibly interesting dynamic and journey because we are twin sisters, who literally created a band together. Nobody tells you when you start music, that you're about to also embark on a social experiment of celebrity. That is one of the wildest concepts. Nobody has the conversation with you when you enter the public eye for what you love to do, which for us it was songwriting first. We weren't even focused on being artists first, it was songwriting and then we moved into being artists. Nobody tells you at that point, you're going to be entering some weird public social experiment of position, of power, of dynamics, of having money for the first time, of having people recognize you, of knowing how to navigate—

Jessica: The attention.

Lisa: And being completely exhausted.

Jessica: The tabloids.

Lisa: Negative attention, or positive, overly positive attention.

Jessica: Well, and then you put, on top of that, the fact that we are twin sisters…

Lisa: …and young women who are growing, and becoming independent from each other as well.

Jessica: Yes. Becoming independent from each other, and growing into the people that we are. Because you get two twin sisters in a band, people are going to compare you to each other. So, there's the comparisons, there's the interviews. "What's your favorite thing? What's the worst thing about your sister?" And it's kind of like you're constantly navigating this sort of dynamic, that in itself, is just a crazy thing.

Lisa: Well, you don't give it that much observational thought until every single interview it's, "Who's always late? Who's the better cook? Who's the better songwriter? Who's the better singer?" Literally, I would say every single interview from the past 15 years, at least one of those questions will come up.

Jessica: And at the beginning, it would be like, what? Who's the better singer? What a stupid question. Like, wait, who's the better cook? Well I guess I am, or I guess that you are. Who's messier? Well, I'm messier. But then it becomes a competition. So, it's funny that you become this sort of social experiment that you're not ready for. Lis and I, we're very blessed that we grew up with a very grounded family and grounded sense of self. So, for us, none of that was taken on board really. We're very blessed in that. For us it's always just been about music, and about our family and being real.

Lisa: But it is a wild experience, and we've been doing it 15 years now, and you find that after 15 years, success is cyclic. Success is...

Jessica: It's very individual to the person. What is true success? We would say, at this point, true success is creative freedom. Having the freedom to be able to create how and what you would like without compromise. Now, at the beginning of your career, you're told there's a lot of compromise that has to happen, in order to have success.

Lisa: And success back then is a number one hit, fame, money. But 15 years later, that is not the same value system.

Jessica: Yeah, you redefine what success is, what is the true value on it. That's really what a lot of this record is about; what is of true value?

Related: LA Pride 2019: The Veronicas, Sir Babygirl & More Celebrate The LGBTQ+ Community

Yeah, I can't imagine like being a young woman in the music industry, when people are literally staring at you like you're not there, and there's just such an emphasis on women's looks. But you both seem so grounded.

Lisa: We were very young, we were very naïve.

Jessica: Yeah, we were 19 when we moved to America. We had lived in our family's home with our parents up until 19, up until we moved here by ourselves.  But the thing about us from the beginning has been that we've always had a very big sense of self, of who we are. And yeah, when we moved here, it was weird because a lot of that was internally going on in the industry. I think we were really lucky to have each other because...

Lisa: We never felt pressured to ever have to compromise on those things. I remember, our first music video was shot in a pool and…

Jessica: …we were wearing like skater boy pants, and just quite horrible fashion honestly. But we didn't want a stylist, okay? We were very much like, we know who we are, and God bless, we really were true to that.

Lisa: They would try and get us in bikinis and all kinds of stuff. We were like, "Why would we do that?"

Jessica: It didn't even make sense to us. I didn't even own a bikini.

Lisa: [looks down at all-black outfit] I own goth attire and that's what I'm going to wear, and just give us the money for the budget because we'll go buy what we like.

Jessica: Which at time was like Dickies shorts.

Lisa: It was a different time, Hot Topic was our favorite shop. I mean, it looks like I'm wearing Hot Topic right now, but the point is that we always had each other's back, and we always were like, well that's stupid.

Jessica: We were always going to fight for who we are and fight for our career.

Lisa: And now, sometimes, people who work with us are like, "Wow, you girls are..."

Jessica: …hard a**es. We don't ever step on people to get to where we want to be, but we're quite stern with what we want. When you've had to fight for 15 years, with people calling you a b*tch for having an opinion because you're a girl in pop music, you learn to value your integrity, and your position through the years of learning where the actual power lies. The actual power lies in you, your ability to create, and nobody can take that from you.

We had a record company shelve of us for four years because they went through internal changes, at the peak of our career, and how debilitating that is for an artist, I cannot even put into words. That can literally destroy you.

Lisa: So crazy.

Jessica: We had dedicated eight years to this, and then they just literally didn't have a single person there to be able to help with our release.

Lisa: And then they also wouldn't let us off the company. So, we had no other choice but to just sit there, and the only way that we could actually take the power back was to get back in the studio. And throughout that time we kept writing, but it was a pretty dark time.

Jessica: And that's why for us, it always comes back to writing. Always comes back to being the songwriters because nobody can ever take from you. Tabloids can't take that from you…

Lisa: That's our voice.

Jessica: Record companies can't take that from you, managers can't take that from you, they can take your money, they can take pretty much everything else, your freedom to be able to release, but they can't take your ability to write. So, for us it's always what it comes back to. As long as we have that, and we've always placed so much value in having that voice.

Lisa: I think that's why there's these big writing camps with the best songwriters in the world, and they come out with these amazing songs, but it's like, well, it's going to take us a little longer because…

Jessica: …that process is the most important for us.

Lisa: It feeds our soul as artists, it feeds our soul as Lisa and Jess, not just The Veronicas.

Jessica: But there is a machine that works, and it works very quickly these days, and so people get a little bit frustrated, like, "Why haven't you got your album out yet? What's taking so long?" And I don't think people realize, because of how quickly music works now, that unless you have the team that's feeding that, it's impossible for one artist or two artists to do everything. But we're trying to do everything.

Lisa: We love to do everything.

Jessica: We would love the time to do everything.

Lisa: Or you find a team that can help facilitate that, but that's also very difficult. It's almost impossible.

Jessica: Well, let's also be real. We really know what we want, and more often than not, we're not satisfied with someone else doing it. It is nice when you find those people you can collaborate with. It's just so rare to find that special connection, I think we're lucky we have it at each other. And so you almost expect other people to be on that same wave, and more often than not, I'm sure we're on a wavelength of our own. I mean, maybe no one else can actually get on this frequency.

Lisa: They probably don't want to. It's probably a bit much.

Were there specific artists or someone that made you feel like you had a place in music when you were younger?

Jessica: We had a very eclectic [musical] upbringing.

Lisa: Our parents were super into a lot of different stuff. So, they were playing records around the house, but I mean it was anything from a glam rock band from Australia, called the Skyhooks. It was very camp, it was fun, it was rock and roll.

Jessica: They'd be in make-up and dresses, super gender-bending.

Lisa: Australia's very innovative, especially with rock and roll music.

Jessica: We loved them. And we grew up in musical theater. So, Jesus Christ Superstar and Rocky Horror Picture Show. I mean, this is stuff that our mom was really into, so she was just constantly playing it around the house. For us, it was just the coolest thing we've ever seen when Frank N. Furter comes out in this women's corset, just rocking our world. And then on the other side it's like k.d. lang, Dean Martin, Elvis Presley...

Lisa: INXS. A lot of rock and roll. And Kylie Minogue was kind of Jessie's fave. And then, I mean Michael Jackson was...his songwriting… So it was a pretty eclectic range of music.

Jun 10, 2019 – 5:09 pm

The Veronicas & More On What Pride Means To Them

Your performance at L.A. Pride was amazing; you said it was your first show in L.A. in eight years, and you two seem so natural and powerful on stage. How did it feel to be back?

Lisa: There's something so beautiful about the LGBTQ community in particular. Wherever you go, they're the most supportive, loving crowd. In L.A., we've lived here for 15 years so, we're sort of L.A. natives a little bit in that way. You're kind of spoiled here, everybody comes through, you can see your favorite artists in rare, small shows. We're very lucky, but with having played for the first time in eight years, especially to such a huge crowd in L.A. But the LGBTQ community in general, wherever you are [shows up], and in L.A., for this particular show, they showed up hard for us and it was the best feeling.

Jessica: Oh my god. It was so much love coming our way. And just looking down, seeing people just…

Lisa: …Loving it. And knowing all the songs.

Jessica: Singing every word and just giving us all their love and energy. It was overwhelming. I was like, "Oh my gosh, this is my fave. I wasn't expecting want everybody to know all the songs, all the words.

Lisa: We got off stage and we were like, "I think that was the best show we've ever done." I couldn't even think of a show where we left feeling that good.

So, during the L.A. Pride performance you guys were like, "Okay, it's time for the gay national anthem," and then sang "Untouched." That was kind of amazing.

Lisa: I was thinking about it because so many people we've been playing for—we played Pride in Orlando as well—and so many people said like, "Your music helped me when I was coming out." There were these beautiful stories that we were hearing from every single person that we were meeting. And I thought, I wonder what it is? What could it be that connected with the queer community in general in such a huge way at that time, beyond obviously we wrote lyrics like, "I want to kiss a girl, I want to kiss a boy." We were just writing out our feelings at the time.

But even beyond that, what was it about the music? What was it about it that really captured the community in such a big way? Well it makes sense because we grew up with the queer community. We grew up in theater from the age of five, where every single friend of ours was gay or queer or in some form of the community. Our main director at the theater company was a gorgeous gay man, and every song was some kind of an anthem for that time as well.

Jessica: Free love and celebration.

Lisa: Yeah, free love, celebration, liberation, sexual freedom. I thought to myself, we've taken that on board in our songwriting, in what we're attracted to sonically. So, we've created music that has essentially embodied a history of music that has engaged the LGBTQ community.

So, that's what we have then been influenced by and created. So, people say that we gave the gays "Untouched," but I'm like, gays actually gave us "Untouched." And that's why I call it the gay anthem.

Jessica: You're right. It's the culture and queer community, and even entertainment was ingrained. It was such a huge part of our upbringing.

Lisa: It's our DNA, and our blueprint. And that's why we've gone on to create this music.

Jessica: Yeah. It's funny thinking about it because I guess I haven't really thought back, but that really stems from our mom. Our mom was just the most loving, giving soul there was. From the theater company, she would have all of our best friends sleep over, and it was all the cute boys, and we'd play fairies and wizards and they'd always want to be the fairies. So we had to be the wizards.

Lisa: She encouraged so much, and she always took in, and always loved people for who they were. We grew up in the most diverse upbringing that you could possibly have.

You'll also be performing at World Pride in N.Y.C. this weekend, which is huge, as well as a few other city's Pride celebrations. Why was it important for you this year to celebrate Pride on stage?

Jessica: I think for me personally, my journey sort of coming to celebrate my sexuality, and I always have been very comfortable with my sexuality, but it has been a particular journey for me. Especially because it's all been quite public, and now I'm in a relationship with a trans man, and he's the absolute love of my life. And how I've identified previously, I've had a very bisexual journey, but through it I've realized that my preference is women, but that's in my 30s now realizing that that's how I would identify.

I just feel so proud to be doing what I love to do, in a relationship that is so wonderful and healthy, and loving, passionate and exciting, and be the most comfortable and happy with. I guess it's continuing to always honor myself, and honor every process and step that I'm going through and to be in a community with people that are going through that for the first time.

But also knowing that in some parts of the world and, in other times of the year, it's not accepted. It's not acceptable to a lot of people still. I take so much pride and honor in being a voice to that, and just a creative force in that, and an ally in every way.

Lisa: Bringing our voice, and that visibility as well I think is so important for us, and especially as music is a universal language. So, through our music, that's why we want to be there. We want to use our voices, we want to use that platform to celebrate love and spread that message. And especially because it's my twin sister too, and part of her journey, and I'm so proud of her in literally every way. So, yeah, it's the best feeling to be here celebrating with everyone.

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Jessica: I guess because we've grown up next to so many fans, and a lot of them are part of the LGBTQ community, we wanted to be able to celebrate in every way that we could with them. Over here in America too, because we do a lot in Australia, and we do a lot of activism, a lot of the rallies in Australia. But marriage equality was only passed last year in Australia, and it's still kind of up there somewhere in the legislation being seen through properly.

But to come here, and I know it's been legal here for a little while, and just being able to celebrate that, and like Lis said, visibility, as there's so many issues within the community that need highlighting. Trans women of color, and the risks and danger that they face still daily, is a huge part of that. Obviously, legislation around transgender visibility, and freedom, and acknowledgement is still a huge, huge thing. And now, being with a trans partner, it's very important for us to be able to embrace those issues.

So, it's really just like being here for that time, and then to be completely honest, the LGBTQ community has shown up for us in the biggest ways at some of the darkest times of our life. When it's a really hard to be an artist in a time when maybe you're having a down time or a hard time in the press, or whatever it is, and they rally around you and lift you up no matter what.

We played a party the other night, called Heaven Party, it's like an underground queer goth warehouse party. It's amazing.

When we came off stage there was a row of the most beautiful drag queens you've ever seen in your life. And every single one of them kissed me, and was like, "You were amazing. You're so gorgeous. Thank you." And I was like, by the third, I was crying because I just feel so lucky.

What is your message for young LGBTQ+ people this Pride, right now?

Jessica: I think just to feel proud of your journey, feel proud of who you are. [Pauses.] Gosh, there's so many messages. I'm trying to think of something to sum up in a soundbite for you.

That you are beautiful, that you are seen, we see you, we're so proud of you, continue to shine brightly. Know that even if you haven't come out yet or if you don't feel safe there, or in the community that you're in currently, that it will get better, and there will be a time when you can live as authentically, and entirely as you wish to be.

That there are people here who love you and there always will be. And as long as we are creating music, we will continue to try to reach out and inspire people in every way that we can. You're so loved, and that family, and that sense of family and community that is available to love and accept you, might not be blood, and that's okay. Love is love and that there really truly is a community here who will embrace and love you, and to always remember that.

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