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Nicholas Britell

Photo by Dominic Nicholls

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Nicholas Britell On Scoring 'Succession' And 'The King' & Learning From Steve McQueen

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The Emmy-winning composer talks to the Recording Academy about moving between film and television, working with auteurs like Adam McKay and Barry Jenkins and more
GRAMMYs
Sep 18, 2019 - 10:58 am

It's safe to say that Nicholas Britell is living the dream—his dream, at least. "Ever since I was five years old, I loved movies and I loved music," the 38-year-old film and TV composer tells the Recording Academy over the phone. "As a composer, the dream is that you can write things and that people can feel the things that you're feeling."

That's exactly what Britell’s work does: It stirs up feelings, whether it’s the bittersweet strings that adorn director Barry Jenkins' 2018 tragic romance If Beale Street Could Talk, or the cascading pianos that usher viewers into the rareified air of the Roy family, the dysfunctional super-wealthy clan at the hardened heart of HBO's Succession. Britell's ear and knack for translating emotion have helped him build quite an impressive IMDb page over the past few years. He's collaborated with some of the most respected filmmakers active today—Jenkins, Steve McQueen, Adam McKay—which means his songs have appeared in two of this decade’s Best Picture winners (McQueen's 12 Years A Slave and Jenkins' Moonlight). Britell has earned some awards attention of his own, as well; he's been nominated for two Oscars for Best Original Score (for Moonlight and Beale Street, respectively) and, more recently, took home a Creative Arts Emmy for Outstanding Original Main Title Theme Music (for Succession, naturally). Odds are, if you have any friends who spend too much time on Film Twitter, they're fans of his.

The Recording Academy chatted with Britell about working alongside a series of auteurs, his score for the second season of Succession (which is presently dominating the TV discourse online), and his compositions for the upcoming Henry V-centric film The King, set to hit theaters on Oct. 11 before debuting on Netflix on Nov. 1. This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity. 

To start at the beginning of your recent run: What was it like being a young composer, working on a film as heavy and sobering as 12 Years A Slave and working with a master like Steve McQueen? 

Steve is incredible. It was truly inspiring and really a life-changing experience for me, to work closely with an artist like Steve, and to learn from him and just to see the way that he approaches things, his decision-making process, the way that he thinks about artistic choices. I often think back on that experience and I’ve stayed in close touch with Steve, and he’s been a very dear friend as well, since then. 

On IMDb, it says "Additional music" for your credit on 12 Years A Slave. Can you clarify: What was your level of involvement? You didn't handle all of the scoring, but you did some of it? 

Actually, I wasn't involved in the score of 12 Years A Slave. I wrote and researched and arranged all of the music that appears on-camera in the film. 

All of the diegetic music.

Exactly, all of the diegetic music. Everything from working with Chiwetel [Ejiofor] and coordinating, researching the type of fiddle tunes that an African-American violinst in 1841 in New York state might have played. Everything from that to exploring the field songs and dances in the South and collaborating with Steve on figuring out the best way to execute those performances. It was actually a huge research endeavor to figure out what's possible to be known about those types of performances and music, and also what are the limits of our knowledge on that. 

You've also collaborated with Barry Jenkins, who has such a distinct visual style, obviously, and favors a lot of close-ups of his characters, a lot of eye contact. What's it like composing for sequences and shots that are so direct, where the audience and the performer are both so vulnerable? 

One of the things about Barry's filmmaking style is that he creates a very full, rich aesthetic experience for the films that he makes. What you’re talking about, that sort of directness, is really emblematic of the way that he approaches all of the departments of the films: the colors, the cinematography, the music, the sound. There is a directness and a boldness with his choices, but it’s all in service of the feeling. A lot of what we’re trying to do, from my perspective, it’s about finding musical landscapes that can convey those feelings and the fullness of those feelings. 

And every film is different. There's no right score for something, there's just the score that you craft in collaboration with the director, at that moment in time. There are lots of possible scores, but I think one of the beautiful things about scoring is that it's so dependent on the process, and how it comes together, and that's what makes it unique to that film. Above all, it’s about finding a sound that feels like—for you and for the director—that it’s really woven into the fabric of the movie somehow. Some things just feel connected, in a way, and some don't. We ourselves don't really know, and the process is us experimenting together. 

You've also worked on two films with Adam McKay, who's an executive produer on Succession. Can you talk about how you got invovled with the show specifically? 

Well, actually, Succession was a result of those two films. I first worked with Adam on The Big Short, and it was after we finished The Big Short that we talked about Succession, and he told me about the premise and the ideas behind the show and asked if I wanted to be a part of the pilot, and of course I said yes. It was quite a few years ago, actually. My mental calendar is sort of a blur—but we did the pilot and I worked on that and then it was after the pilot, after some time, we then did the rest of the series and put it all together. 

I started talking to Adam about it before they shot the pilot and was able to go to set and be there for when they were shooting the pilot, which, it’s always a great experience because you get to see things up close. So, it directly came out of that experience of first working with Adam on The Big Short. I finished scoring Succession, the first season, while we were making Vice, actually, so I was doing those in parallel to some extent. 

The goal for me musically was that it had both this kind of gravitas to the seriousness of that world, which is—it’s a real issue in the world, that there are these increasing concentrations of wealth and power amongst fewer and fewer people. There's a darkness there, but there’s also this absurdity and I think that finding a tone that could balance both of those things was really the key. And it was very interesting, actually, working on Vice at the same time, because I feel working with Adam has been so crucial for me as a learning experience, too, and thinking about that interplay between drama and comedy.

How has the Succession score changed or developed from season one to season two? 

Season one really laid the groundwork for the thematic ideas and for the tone. Season two, I think it was really important for me that as the story evolved, I definitely wanted the music to continue its own evolution. I remember talking to Jesse [Armstrong, creator and showrunner of Succession] about this idea of, "Imagine a symphony that is Succession, what's the second movement sound like? What do we do?"

Also, you never want to overstay your welcome with certain musical ideas. There's definitely a sort of dark, maniacal streak to some of the music, and I want to make sure that when we’re using certain ideas, that we know exactly where and they have a power still. There’s certain new elements for Kendall, there are certain elements that are Shiv-focused. It’s the same Succession universe, but hopefully a bit more. 

How does working on a TV show compare to working on a feature-length film? 

The difference between film and TV is pretty large, actually. There's just so much more real estate in TV. Certainly, there's the micro-level approach, which is thinking episode to episode. But I really try to think about it as one entire piece, in a way. So, you're always thinking about, "Where do certain ideas get seeded, where do certain ideas come back? How does what we hear in episode one impact what we hear in episode 10?" It's actually quite challenging to think about that. 

That's something that I really love about film music, is thinking about the architecture of the ideas, like, where you start one idea and then how does it evolve, how does it change, where does it come back? And also, importantly, where do you not have music? That’s always really important, too. Each film has its own musical logic, and you’re trying to have the film tell you where it needs music and where it doesn't want music. 

You just won a Creative Arts Emmy for the Succession theme. There's always so much talk about awards campaigning, mostly about the Oscars. What does campaigning look like for a film composer? And how does it differ between the Oscars and the Emmys? 

I’m new to the TV world a bit. The film awards season and that process is very linked with the release of those films, so I view it very much as you're participating in helping bringing the film into the world. I remember last year, with Beale Street for example, it wasn’t even so much necessarily campaigning as it was, we would do a lot of Q&As at movie theaters, and really be there sharing what the story of the film is. 

With TV, actually, I haven’t done quite as much, I guess. In the sense that that kind of natural, going to movie theaters and doing Q&As and stuff, there really isn't as much of that. And I think that’s partly also just the nature of the medium. Which, I would actually add to that and say that I've been really awed by the level of audience that is possible from television. I love movies, and I love the movie theater experience, but I also think it is a wonderful thing that television is actually able to get out to more people, and more people, on a weekly basis, can participate in the stuff that you’re making. That’s been something of a new experience that I’ve had with working on a TV show. 

You worked on a film that's coming out in October, The King. Did you have to get into a dramatically different headspace as a composer, working on something that’s set that far back in the past? 

I definitely did not change my process. When I approach a new project, I try to have a blank slate in a way, where you’re trying to be open to feeling what that film or that series need in the way of music, and seeing what that is. Obviously, you don’t figure that out without talking to the director, and having that conversation: What are they feeling and what are they looking for? 

I remember with The King, the first thought that I had when I saw a rough cut of the movie was, "What would it be like if I imagined that the 1400s was actually like the 2500s?" You say to yourself, "What is that sort of sense of distance and time mean?" So I tried to create sounds early on that felt like they could be linked with the world that we were witnessing, but that also felt like they weren’t necessarily "period." I was very specifically not trying to say, "All of these instruments are from 1413."

So, the sound that I settled on, working with David [Michôd, director of The King], was this sound where it's a mixture of these bass clarinets that I pitched through this sort of tape filter that created a very strange texture. And then there’s the sound of a boys' choir, which emerges over the course of the film, and there's definitely some symbolism there, emotionally and musically, with the fact that this is a young man who is becoming king. And there were a lot of musical experiments that we did, too, with morphing some brass and morphing these sort of metallic sounds. I think it's about creating something that makes you lean into this world, to want to explore it—but at the same time, you need something that feels like it connects with you.        

I've seen a lot of people tweeting about your music, saying things like, "Just working all day to the Beale Street soundtrack." I imagine that if you're a film composer, it'd be rewarding to put your music out, but there would maybe be this fear that your work would be entombed with the movie it's for, just inseprarable from it. But it seems like people are more than happy to associate your compositions with the films, but also to break them out and use them in their own lives. 

Well, thank you. I definitely feel like when I’m writing, it's very important that the music for film can exist both inside and outside the project. I think that's maybe a little bit of an aesthetic criteria for me, of whether something works. For any piece that I’m writing for a movie, the music has to be able to exist on its own, hopefully, as an idea. So, I do think about its ability to exist outside of the project, but certainly, the number one goal is that it's right for the project. That's its only reason for being there. 

Music Is Coming: Composer Ramin Djawadi Looks Back On Eight Epic Seasons Of 'Game Of Thrones'

Selena

Fans remember Selena during Hollywood Walk of Fame ceremony in 2017

Photo: TARA ZIEMBA/AFP via Getty Images

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Selena Forever: Remembering The Latin Pop Icon 25 Years Later

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On the 25th anniversary of her passing, the Recording Academy honors Selena via an industry round-table tribute featuring the artists, creatives and journalists she inspired through her art
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Mar 31, 2020 - 7:48 pm

Few artists have transcended genres, decades, languages, cultures and borders like Selena. Born Selena Quintanilla in Lake Jackson, Texas, and reared in the state's Corpus Christi area, the iconic singer is one of the most influential and most successful artists in the wider Latin pop canon.

In her early days, she became a pioneer in the then-male-dominated Tejano music scene, a genre she helped mainstream when she won the GRAMMY for Best Mexican-American Album in 1994 for her 1993 live album, Selena Live! It marked her first, and only, career GRAMMY win and the first time a female Tejano artist won the category, earning her the undisputed title of Queen of Tejano music. It was only one of many accolades for the legendary singer. 

Remembering Selena 25 Years Later

In her short-lived solo career—she released five studio albums between 1989 and 1995—Selena would establish an ever-lasting sound that spanned languages and styles and resonated with fans across a spectrum of cultures and ethnicities. Her multiplatinum 1994 album, Amor Prohibido, gave early indications of her cross-cultural crossover appeal. In addition to topping the Top Latin Albums and the Regional Mexican Albums charts, Amor Prohibido became a top 30 hit on the all-genre Billboard 200 chart. It also received a GRAMMY nomination for Best Mexican-American Performance and spawned four chart-topping hits that conquered the Billboard Hot Latin Songs chart: "Amor Prohibido," "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom," "No Me Queda Más" and "Fotos Y Recuerdos," all considered signature Selena classics today. 

She would later go on to fully establish her mainstream crossover appeal with Dreaming Of You, her final album, released posthumously in July 1995, just three months after she was murdered by a former employee. The album would debut at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 chart in the U.S., becoming the first predominately Spanish-language album to accomplish that feat. It would ultimately prove the full potential of just how far the international star was poised to go.

Selena's reach expands far beyond music, too. A multifaceted businesswoman, she owned and operated two boutiques, called Selena Etc., across Texas, with several other locations across Latin America in the works. As a budding fashion designer, she regularly wore her own designs while performing onstage: Her iconic purple jumpsuit she wore at her final concert in 1995 remains an eternal look. In 2016, MAC Cosmetics released a makeup collection inspired by and in honor of Selena. Selling out within a day, the collection is now considered one of the best-selling MAC celeb collaborations of all time. MAC will be releasing a second Selena capsule collection this April.

The story of Selena, forever immortalized in the 1997 biopic starring a then-rookie Jennifer Lopez in the career-making titular role, is one that's continued since her untimely death in 1995. She has since inspired a new generation of artists and fans alike, who carry on her legacy through music, art and fashion, three areas in which she pushed the envelope with her unique style and vision. Much like her music lives on to this day, so too does her never-ending influence. 

On the 25th anniversary of her passing today (March 31), the Recording Academy honors Selena via an industry round-table tribute featuring the artists, creatives and journalists she's inspired throughout the decades through her music and art.

The quotes and comments used in this feature were edited for clarity and brevity.

She Was A Genuine Soul

Kacey Musgraves (GRAMMY-winning artist; in 2019, she covered Selena's "Como La Flor" at the same site of the Tejano legend's final concert in 1995): Selena had an innate talent for taking something classic and traditional and shaping it with her modern voice. I love when someone has the vision to take something that's been done a million times and knows how to freshen it up in a way that speaks to their generation and also older generations. It's a quality that truly brings people of all ages together. 

Selena was an entrepreneur and woman of business, a songwriter, an iconic vocalist, a trendsetter, and her fashion sense was way ahead of its time. But the attribute I admire most about her was her ability to be real—unabashedly genuine across the board. Being in the spotlight, especially from a young age, can bamboozle people into feeling like they have to shift into something different when the cameras are on. Without ever knowing her, I feel like I can say she never did.

Linda Wilvang (Senior Director, Awards and Latin Genre Manager at the Recording Academy): I have always been attracted to artists who push the envelope, artists who are not conventional, and Selena was one of those artists. She elevated Tejano music to a new high. She successfully blended other musical styles with Tejano and made it her own. She proved to me that you can succeed without compromising your core values, without changing who you are. You can work in any industry and still be real.

John Dyer (photographer; in addition to photographing Selena for several magazine covers in the early '90s, he has contributed images to the Selena Forever/Siempre Selena installation on display at McNay Art Museum in San Antonio, Texas): I spent the day before the shoot setting up several backdrops in the studio so I could photograph her in a variety of situations and costumes ... She jumped out of her car with a big smile. A naturally beautiful, young Latina with jet-black hair, flawless skin, and a perfect figure. She opened the hatchback. It was crammed full of her performing costumes, many handmade, all of her own design … 

For the cover [Mas Magazine, 1992], we shot in front of a gray background. Then we moved in front of a red curtain above a black and white checked floor. We ended outside the studio against a white seamless in the warm afternoon light. Selena's quick smile, infectious laugh, and unending energy made her a pleasure to work with …

In early 1995, Texas Monthly called and wanted to do a spread on Selena. By now, she had achieved incredible fame and transcended the boundaries of the Texas music scene. 

We met at the Majestic Theater in San Antonio, a favorite place of mine. She had just finished two exhausting days of shooting TV commercials for a corporate sponsor. She was tired. I had brought a beautiful handmade jacket for her to wear. I posed her in the alcove on the mezzanine of the theater where the light is particularly nice. She was subdued and pensive. A far cry from the ebullient, excited young singer I'd photographed three years earlier. Later I thought her mood might have been an eerie harbinger of what was to come.

Between when I photographed her at the Majestic and the Texas Monthly article coming out, she was killed. The art director, my old friend DJ Stout, used one of the more somber shots I had done for his cover chronicling her death. He sent me a handwritten note not too long after the issue appeared saying the cover with my photograph of Selena was one of the strongest he'd ever done. It's a cover I would rather not have had. 

She Represented A Different Kind Of Beauty

Patty Rodriguez (Senior Producer for On Air With Ryan Seacrest; her Los Angeles-based children's book publisher, Lil' Libros, released a bilingual picture book biography about Selena; in 2015, her online petition helped launch the Selena-inspired MAC Cosmetics makeup line): She was unapologetically Latina. She was so proud of her identity and carried it with her everywhere, and that is what resonated with us. Growing up, we had no one to look up to, so then here comes a woman … with black hair, brown skin, that sounds and looks like us. Her flamboyant onstage costumes were designed and created by her, an example of the Latina make-it-happen-with-the-limited-resources-we-have attitude. Her trademark red lipstick and hoop earrings are what you see in our neighborhoods, and she took that with her to the world stage. 

Latina women purchase beauty products three times more than any other group, and it wasn't until MAC released Selena's collection did we feel seen; it's unbelievable to me that it took this long. But I see why: The men and women who grew up with Selena are now adults. She taught us to be unapologetically Latinx, and we are no longer afraid to ask for what we deserve. Thank you Selena.

Read: Remember When? Selena Wins Big At The 36th GRAMMYs 

Leila Cobo (VP Latin Industry Lead at Billboard): I think Selena's particular brand of beauty was essential to her success. In a world (still) of telegenic, imported Latin pop stars, and a time when the standard for Latin beauty were largely white soap opera actresses, Selena was an anomaly. Selena embraced her body, her hair, her voluptuousness. She was so real. I would say that, for the first time, a new generation of U.S.-born Mexican-Americans and Latinas overall had a star that they could intimately relate to at all levels. She was their peer. She was a role model for an entire generation of Mexican-American girls who didn't have a role model before. This was key. Only Jenni Rivera, many years later, would come close.

Kate Carey (Head of Education at McNay Art Museum in San Antonio, Texas; Exhibition Curator for Selena Forever / Siempre Selena photography installation): In selecting the photographs on view in Selena Forever/Siempre Selena, I had an opportunity to look through many photos from two different shoots with photographer John Dyer. I recognize that he is a gifted photographer, but her beauty and winning personality were revealed on every frame. I can see why brands wanted to align with her image. Yes, she is beautiful, but she also came across as very real—just like me or you. 

Pabllo Vittar (Brazilian activist, artist and drag queen): Selena embraced her beauty the way it was, not trying to follow the "beauty rules." That's important and it resonates till now, as you can see more and more people feeling good with their bodies and how they look. We are all beautiful in our own way and there's nothing that can tell us otherwise. 

Honey Andrews (transgender performer, based in Corpus Christi, Texas, who's worked as a Selena impersonator for nearly 15 years; "Selena was definitely one of my inspirations and idols and someone I definitely look up to when I began my transition," she says): Selena's fashion was definitely ahead of its time, and she was always up to date on the latest trends. She was an amazing fashion designer. Her amazing onstage costumes are very recognizable, and she has definitely impacted today's women in the music industry; till this day, a lot of women credit her for the fashions they wear ontage and even for just a casual day. She definitely impacted me because she taught me that you can be sexy, even if you're not a size zero. You can still be sexy by having curves, and she definitely embraced her own beautiful body and curves.

Girl Ultra (R&B artist from Mexico City): I feel like she embraced her curves and her body shape so much. She was breaking paradigms about the female body and Latina bodies as well. As Latinas, we have big caderas [hips] and juicy thighs, and when it comes to fashion, it's hard to find the right sizes. And by her designing her own outfits and crafting them, she was breaking all this body stereotyping back in the day. 

Javiera Mena (Chilean electropop artist): She transmitted good vibes with her smile, her eyes, her body—we could feel it. We all feel it when we watch her videos, too. It makes you connect, and that's a real beauty. Also, her mouth and lips were very iconic. I understand MAC [Cosmetics] used it for a [beauty] line, with her big and thick lips, something that influenced me and all the people!

Her Fashion Was Ahead Of The Time

Kate Carey (McNay Art Museum): Selena Forever/Siempre Selena was conceived at the McNay Art Museum in tandem with the 1990s-focused exhibition, Fashion Nirvana: Runway To Everyday. Like many of the designers on view in Fashion Nirvana, Selena took fashion risks, embraced body-conscious ensembles and carefully crafted her image. That brand of fearlessness and innovation characterized the 1990s and Selena's fashion sense. The sparkly bustier tops, revealing performance ensembles and cool leather jackets cement her reputation as a style icon, but she presented an authentic and accessible image by wearing jeans, boots and white T-shirts. Personally, I'm a big fan of the accessories: the newsboy hats or big silver belts. She absorbs these elements of menswear and represents them as both tough and feminine. That, to me, is '90s fashion in a nutshell.

Javiera Mena (artist): I love her aesthetic and style. It is a great influence for me. I have been influenced by the high-cut Texan jackets with large shoulder pads and the glitter and reflective accessories. Also, her jeans and thick eyebrows. She was a pioneer. She had an elegance that brightened without limits when she was on stage.

Christian Serratos (actress; she stars as Selena in the forthcoming Netflix series, "Selena: The Series"): It's amazing to see how many artists, of all backgrounds and genders, have been inspired by Selena. It was her fearlessness and creativity that made her an icon. There are few people who have the power to be remembered by a color or a feeling, or who have become synonymous with an accessory like the hoop earring. The last time I saw what Selena did to the red lip was Marylin Monroe, another icon. I see Selena's influence when I walk down the street, and I know I'll continue seeing that influence for many more generations. 

María (Lead singer of Los Angeles-based Spanglish indie rock/indie pop band, The Marías): My first memory of being introduced to Selena was in her biopic film. Thereafter, I listened to her music and watched her music videos nonstop. I remember when I was around 5 or 6, I wanted to wear a bustier just like Selena. I wasn't even old enough to wear a bra! But my mom, being the angel she was, found some tiny training bras at the store and sewed little beads on them for me. This was my earliest memory of being directly influenced by fashion. When I was old enough to really understand, her style represented confidence in your own body. The fact that she could so freely and confidently dance around in a bustier, against her father's wishes, was inspiring. She wasn't doing it for sex appeal, in my opinion. She was doing it because she simply wanted to feel free and in control of her body.

Raquel Berrios (Puerto Rican designer and co-founder/singer of Buscabulla): Her style sense was very balanced and cool. It was sexy without being slutty, feminine but not fragile. She really created a strong yet down-to-Earth example for Latinas. I personally strive to include that balance in the way that I like to style myself and portray myself as a Latina artist. 

She Was A Multifaceted Businesswoman

Christian Serratos (actress): Selena's ability to create new avenues for herself and work hard to achieve them is inspiring and relatable. We all have the ability to design our own paths. Strong women like Selena show us the power of never giving up and handling adversities with grace. 

Jennifer D'Cunha (Global Head of Latin Music at Apple Music): Selena had an entrepreneurial spirit and extended her self-expression beyond music and into fashion, design and film, while staying true to her personal brand and identity. Her confidence, authenticity and distinctive personal style still resonate and inspire fans all over the world. She had the courage to reinvent herself and the work ethic and raw talent to be successful at anything she committed to. Selena ventured into uncharted territory by expanding her realm of influence outside of music, well before celebrity clothing lines were commonplace and brand partnerships were the norm.

Tatiana Hazel (Mexican-American, Los Angeles-based singer-songwriter, musician, producer and fashion designer): Nowadays, several musicians are starting their own makeup lines, fashion brands, etc. But Selena was definitely a pioneer for this kind of business model. She really was capable of anything she set her mind to accomplish, and I believe that is why she was able to break so many barriers through determination. Also, not only was she determined, but also talented at everything that she pursued.

She Was A Voice For Latinx People Around The World …

Adrian Quesada (GRAMMY-winning guitarist/producer and founding member of GRAMMY-nominated duo Black Pumas; he served as the music director for the Selena For Sanctuary tribute concert series in 2018 and 2019): She had a huge impact and influenced many, and still does to this day, because representation is very important for communities and cultures that haven't always had an icon that transcends boundaries to look up to. For people that looked like her, spoke like her, came from places like she did, it let them know that they could do it, too. I feel like her influence continues to grow exponentially, even for generations who weren't alive when she was. She gives hope and inspires because she was bigger than any one genre, culture, region and country, and was a positive role model at that. 

María (artist): When an artist as undeniably talented as Selena comes along, deep down it doesn't matter where she's from. I became a fan of Selena when I was really little, after watching the movie [Selena] with Jennifer Lopez. It didn't matter to me what Latin country she was from. What mattered to me was that she was Latin and that she was accomplishing so many amazing things. Of course, Latin communities take pride in their countries and flags, but what unites us all is that we're Latin, that we have similar values and morals and beliefs. I'm from Puerto Rico and my father is from Spain, but growing up, all of my friends were from different Latin countries: Venezuela, Colombia, Mexico, Brazil, Uruguay, Guatemala and more. We learned from each other's unique cultures, but deep down we were all the same. 

La Doña (Mexican-America multi-instrumentalist, producer and singer-songwriter): I think the reason her music was so successful with such a diversity of Latinos is because Tejano music and all of the music she is founded in are tremendously diasporic cultural practices. That means that when she revolutionized Tejano music and prepared it for the pop platform, she is representing and reiterating ancient practices that are not confined to the region of Texas. Similarly, when she presented her style of techno-cumbia, she was not only appealing to a young brown audience, who was excited by their contemporary synthetic sounds mixed with familiar and familial rhythms, but also representing Afro-Latinx and Afro-indigenous art forms that have informed all of the musica tipica and popular of Latin America. This commitment to tradition and bravery in transporting it into a new arena is definitely one of the reasons that Selena's music spoke to such a diversity of Latinx fans across the world. 

Isabela Raygoza (Latin Music Editor at SoundCloud): Selena's musical moxie embodied the beautiful complexities of biculturalism. With her insatiable mix of electro-cumbia, ranchera and pop-flavored R&B, Selena went on to represent the experiences and lifestyles of her compatriots: Mexicans (native, first-, second-, third-gen), Texas dwellers and beyond. She was born in the U.S. to Mexican-descendent parents, and she didn't speak fluent Spanish, similar to Chicano rock star Ritchie Valens before her and countless others of Latinx immigrant backgrounds. Brown-skinned, family-oriented, and of humble beginnings, Selena, the pop icon, became the voice of the Latinx diaspora. 

Without Selena's formidable contributions to Latin pop, J.Lo or Becky G's musical career might've not been what they are today: two U.S.-born Latinas who, too, grew up speaking predominantly English, who embrace their biculturalism with endearment and pride and who uphold the enduring legacy left behind by the Queen Of Tejano Music.  

Although Selena's tragic death cut her potential short, she nevertheless managed to leave an indelible mark on Latin pop, and she will surely continue to do so for newer pop stars to come.

Raquel Berrios (artist, Buscabulla): Selena was right there doing her Latin thing in the most unique way in a time when we really didn't get to see a lot of Latina role models on mainstream media. She set such a cool example of a super talented, down-to-Earth Latina woman. I loved how she broke language barriers. That was a huge inspiration for me as an artist.

… But She Was A Role Model For All People

Kali Uchis (GRAMMY-nominated artist): Selena will forever be iconic because that's what she was. Her being taken from us is one of the greatest tragedies known to man, but Selena's raw star power, persistence and dedicated fan base are the reason her legacy will be immortal. As a Latin-American woman, she made me proud to be multicultural when at times it never felt I could be American enough or Colombian enough. I've always listed her as one of my greatest inspirations, because she was the first multicultural global sensation on Earth.  

Honey Andrews (performer/Selena impersonator): Selena's music and art influenced me in so many different ways. Her music is timeless. Selena was a piece of art herself. She was very diverse with her wardrobe as well as her music. She means so much to me as a person because she taught me that the impossible is always possible. She was a one-of-a-kind artist and she was such a great cultural figure for the Hispanic and Latino and Mexican-American community.

Marissa Gastelum (Latin Music Artist Relations at Apple Music): Selena is the only Latin artist to have broken cultural barriers the way she has passed the grave. When you have artists like Beyoncé and Kacey Musgraves performing covers of Selena or Drake wearing a shirt with Selena, you know she has transcended culture. Her spirit lives on through her music, and the Selena movie helps new generations get to know her story and connect to her music. Her album Dreaming Of You is a gem, and those songs are timeless. I think these artists connect to Selena because of her music and her sense of style. She was the epitome of cool and an incredible performer. Selena showed that a woman can be strong and graceful and can command a stage and be sexy at the same time.   

iLe (GRAMMY-winning Puerto Rican singer/artist; member of Calle 13): I think that when you start something that's so good there is no reason to stop. Selena was that dreamer that we all are when we were young. Listening to her songs today is revitalizing. She and her music reminds us about the importance of being alive, enjoying every moment and to keep dreaming. 

Suzy Exposito (Latin Music Editor at Rolling Stone; her former punk band, Shady Hawkins, covered Selena's "Como La Flor" in the past): I was always a sucker for a forbidden romance like that of [Selena's hit song] "Amor Prohibido." Inspired by love letters Selena discovered from her grandmother to her grandfather—a young maid who fell in love with the wealthy son of her employers—it's a heartrending tale of two young sweethearts, who against the conventions of society, flout their class disparity with love. Selena told it with such verve and conviction that even as a 5-year-old, it just rocked me to my core. Yet the context changed as I grew older, and I began to understand that the love I so desired would probably look very different from that of my parents or most of my peers. So when I came out as a bisexual woman 10 years ago, I braced myself to go through it alone; but the biggest surprise and reward of coming out was that, in fact, I was far from it! In being more present in New York City's LGBTQ community, whether by attending protests, drag nights and punk shows, I was able to find a beautiful community of Latinx people who grew up just like me: bilingual children of immigrants, whose resilience and great capacity for love transcends all kinds of borders.

Suzy Exposito (center) performs with her band, Shady Hawkins

Suzy Exposito (center) performs with her band, Shady Hawkins

Adrian Quesada (artist/producer): Being from a South Texas border town, cross-cultural and bilingual feels pretty normal and felt so at the time of her music. But I think it gave hope that it could be bigger than that and reach the masses through multiple avenues. They updated the Tejano sound a bit with modern, at the time, R&B influences, which helped it cross over and resonate with people who weren't familiar with regional Tex-Mex music and did so in a way that was seamless and natural. I do believe she was well on her way to even bigger crossover territory, with collaborations with people like David Byrne, and would have continued to push the envelope musically and culturally to this day. She was just beginning to really branch out before her life was tragically taken. 

She Broke Barriers And Opened Doors For Next-Gen Artists

Angie Romero (Senior Editor, U.S. Latin Music Culture and Editorial at Spotify): Back in the day, artists like Selena had to fight hard against systemic barriers, many of which still exist today. But because of artists like Selena, Gloria Estefan and others, the door for the next generation has been cracked open, and it will forever stay open. Young Latinas can dream of doing anything they want to do in the world, and they don't ever have to stay inside a box, either — they can do it all, just like Selena did.

iLe (artist): Society makes us get used to the same things so much that we don't notice what we're seeking until it suddenly appears. We as women have a voice that should be heard and acknowledged. Selena became a female figure that Tejano and Latin pop music needed and I think she succeeded by not being afraid of being herself. 

Selena Wins Best Mexican-American Album

Jennifer D'Cunha (Apple Music): Selena broke barriers for women in Latin music. She created her own lane in the male-dominated Tejano music scene, and successfully took the genre to new heights. Whether it was cumbias, traditional Tejano or pop, she made her unique sound mainstream in Latin music. She thrived not by trying to conform, but by pushing the boundaries, following her intuition and playing by her own rules. Her spirit lives on and continues to inspire.

Pabllo Vittar (artist): For me, she was the first Latin diva going global! She was gorgeous and unique! I was born a year before she passed away, but I remember my mom listening to her music and I could watch her videos some years later. She was an icon that comes to mind when we talk about letting the uniqueness of your culture shine through you, and she was an example of how you can take a specific and regional rhythm and work your way into the industry. 

Jesse Baez (Guatemalan contemporary urban/R&B artist): I think the most important thing people should know is that you can live forever through music. You know, Selena passed away when she was 23, so she was incredibly young, and in spite of that, she's still relevant in 2020, maybe more than before. I think people should know that you can live forever if you do something with passion and enjoy what you do—that's what I would take from her. 

Girl Ultra (artist): She had such a big female strength that still empowers upcoming generations. She embraced her roots and her femininity in ways that Mexican culture was not very used to. She also gave Mexican weddings and parties many anthems.

La Doña (artist): Selena was able to supersede systemic barriers for many different reasons; one of those is her raw talent and passion. It is impossible to ignore the sheer amount of energy she put behind not only every song and every performance, but also all of her other creative ventures. Unfortunately, however, we have seen that that is rarely enough for a young star such as Selena to achieve success in the way that she did. 

I think that a huge contributor to this success was the support and contributions of her family. Though working with one's family is never simple or easy—speaking from the perspective of someone who grew up playing Tejano music in a family band—it is also grounding and supportive in a way that you won't experience from a different type of team. 

The last element of this perfect storm that vaulted Selena into super stardom is that the music industry needed her. The huge Latinx population within the United States needed her; the market existed but it was largely ignored until Selena revealed it, and then there was no going back. She opened a door to a market and created an entire Latinx enclave within the pop industry that would always exist as her legacy.

Her Music Still Strikes A Chord Today

Kate Carey (McNay Art Museum): "Como La Flor" is one of the greatest songs ever, and if I have done anything right as a parent, it is that my kids know this song by heart. 

Kali Uchis (artist): My favorite songs are "No Me Queda Más" and "Como La Flor"—because I like to dance and cry.

Angie Romero (Spotify): It's so hard to choose a favorite! But "Como La Flor" is just a perfect song, with the perfect metaphor, and it was also special to her and the band because it was their breakthrough hit in the U.S. and Mexico, reaching No. 6 on Billboard's Hot Latin Songs chart [in 1992]. When she sings the opening notes of that song, live at the Astrodome, and drags out the word "flooor," then moves her hand beautifully like a flamenco dancer, it gives me chills and makes me teary-eyed every time! I also just love that line about "me marcho hoy, yo se perder" ["I'm leaving today, I know how to lose"]. It's a different take on a broken heart in the sense that you aren't just wallowing in sadness, but you accept it and move on, similarly to other iconic songs that I love that also take the high road, like "I Can't Make You Love Me" by Bonnie Raitt. 

iLe (artist): I have many Selena classics that I love, but I would have to say "Techno Cumbia" [is my favorite] because it reminds me of a little dance that I used to do with my cousin, Beatriz, when we were kids.

Jesse Baez (artist): I feel like "No Me Queda Mas" is the only ballad that I can go back to and not feel weird about liking. It just became a permanent song in connection to my childhood. Even though it's sad, and there are a bunch of other Selena songs that I also love, I like how this song goes against everything else I tend to like, so I will pick that song forever.

Jennifer D'Cunha (Apple Music): Selena's [2003] Live: The Last Concert is one of my favorite concert films of all time. Selena's charisma onstage, her vocals, the energy from her fans and that fierce purple jumpsuit make this one of the most iconic live performances ever.

Leila Cobo (Billboard): "Amor Prohibido" is my favorite Selena song. It's a beautiful story, a timeless song, timeless lyrics. It's a song that will forever be relevant.

A New Generation Of Artists And Fans Continues Her Legacy

Leila Cobo (Billboard): While Selena's music traveled internationally, her real influence lies in her impact within the United States. Because she was a homegrown star, she was widely recognized both by Latin and non-Latin fans. Selena was an anomaly: Bilingual and bicultural, she not only looked like her fans, she was like them. That relatability was transformative for Latin pop culture.

Thanks to Selena, for the first time, perhaps ever, U.S.-born Latinas had a role model they could aspire to be. Two generations later, Selena's impact is tangible. Dozens of prominent figures—from Becky G to Jennifer Lopez to Leslie Grace to Selena Gomez—point to Selena as their direct influence. Selena's legacy has been fundamental in creating a new movement of U.S.-born Latin artists who today, 25 years after her death, are collectively reaping success and still naming her as the precursor of their achievements.

Girl Ultra (artist): I feel like any Latina making music since then is part of her legacy. We're fighting for the same cause: breaking paradigms about how ''Latino music'' should sound or look like and breaking with the objectification and the so-called "fetish" of Latinas all over the world.

Linda Wilvang (the Recording Academy): Selena made Tejano music cool! Moreover, she was able to fiercely and creatively convey her passion for the genre, and this you can attest by watching any of her performances. She truly loved her craft, her fans—she loved life. Selena's legacy has endured to this day and will continue, thanks to her family and fans who lovingly have kept her music and spirit alive for 25 years and beyond. 

Marisol "La Marisoul" Hernandez (Lead vocalist of GRAMMY-winning Los Angeles band La Santa Cecilia): When I first witnessed Selena, I was blown away by her amazing vocal skills. It was so inspiring to see a brown, curvaceous woman be so confident and commanding onstage. I could see myself in her, and that was so empowering! At that time, as a teenager, I, too, had dreams of one day becoming a singer myself. Her beautiful music introduced me to the Tejano music genre, which I began to follow. I admired her presence in a mostly male-dominated music scene and soon became a loyal fan. 

Watching her interpret regional Mexican music in Spanish really moved me to continue my personal journey. When I saw an interview with her and [saw] the way she spoke Spanish with her Mexican-American accent, that's what really got me. She spoke the way I spoke. She was a Mexican-American female musician dominating the Tejano, regional Mexican music scene, and at the same time, you could hear in her voice that American R&B style that I would hear later in the [1995 album], Dreaming Of You. That's what made her so special to me and such an inspiration.

Kate Carey (McNay Art Museum): I love visiting the McNay on weekends when I'm not really working. The first weekend of the Selena Forever/Siempre Selena exhibition at the McNay, my parents were visiting; I wanted to show them what I was working on. We saw visitors throughout the museum wearing Selena fan memorabilia. One older gentleman wore a T-shirt that read, Selena es mi reina [Selena is my queen]. Similarly, a young mother encouraged her daughter to pose like Selena in the photos. I don't know why her music is so timeless, but I know that it is, and it's very obvious to me the reverence Selena fans have for her music and her image. 

The Enduring Beauty Of Selena's Legacy

GRAMMYs

Pearl Jam

Photo by Danny Clinch

News

Pearl Jam Producer Josh Evans Unpacks The Iconic Band's New Album, 'Gigaton'

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The Recording Academy spoke with 'Gigaton' co-producer Evans to discuss Pearl Jam's multi-year journey of writing and recording the album and their renewed commitments to creative experimentation and socio-political engagement
Will Hodge
GRAMMYs
Mar 30, 2020 - 10:55 am

"There's a reason Pearl Jam is still going strong 30 years in," states producer Josh Evans. "The guys care deeply about the details that matter and they’re determined to let go of the things that don’t."

While Evans has worked in various capacities with the legendary alt-rockers since 2006, their brand-new album Gigaton (out now on the band's own Monkeywrench Records imprint) marks the first time that the Seattle-based studio pro has been credited as a co-producer alongside the band. The feverishly anticipated record is the band’s 11th studio album overall and their first since the release of their GRAMMY-winning 2013 album Lightning Bolt. After an explosively strong trio of pre-release singles—the adventurously experimental "Dance Of The Clairvoyants," the familiarly ferocious "Superblood Wolfman" and the riff-heavy protest song "Quick Escape"—Gigaton announces a defiantly new chapter in the band's iconic multi-decade canon of bombast and breath.

Gigaton's raucous opener "Who Ever Said" finds Pearl Jam frontman Eddie Vedder growling "Whoever said it’s all been said gave up on satisfaction" and the mantra serves as a bit of a warning to anyone who might assume the band is operating on creative cruise control. Known for continually pushing out their own artistic walls and finding previously undiscovered ways to be completely themselves, Pearl Jam has once again evaded expectations to deliver an album that is both reminiscent of their past successes and wholly relevant to the current cultural, environmental, and socio-political moment. From the climate-conscious album artwork featuring the breathtaking photography of conservationist Paul Nicklen to the unflinchingly "of the moment" lyrical directness that is usually reserved for hip-hop, punk and folk songs, Gigaton finds the band openly embracing hard-earned experience and fresh experimentation to create one of their most prescient offerings to date.         

Recently, the Recording Academy spoke with Gigaton co-producer Evans to discuss the band's multi-year journey of writing and recording the album and their renewed commitments to both boundaryless creative experimentation and uncompromising socio-political engagement.

Josh Evans: I guess you could say I kind of started in the mailroom with these guys. I first started working with them as an assistant engineer during the recording of the Avocado album, their self-titled record from 2006. At the time, the term "assistant engineer" meant setting up gear, getting sandwiches, making coffee, cleaning the toilets, or whatever else needed to be done—all of which allowed me to really get to know the band and their crew. When the album was finished, they were moving warehouses to their current location and they hired me to do stuff like moving boxes and painting walls and I ended up working around the warehouse and studio on a full-time basis.

I also started touring with them as a tech. Over the past five years or so, I started recording a lot of their demos, both for band stuff and for some of their individual solo projects. Around the beginning of 2017, they decided to really focus on crafting a new album, so we started recording demos, which turned into new songs, which eventually became the new record. I’m very lucky that they trusted me to help them see it to the end. It was a super collaborative process and it was a very organic evolution over the last three years from being the guy that hit record for the demos to really being included in the various creative exchanges that take place during the recording process. This would be a big project for anyone but it’s certainly a huge project for me.

"There's a reason Pearl Jam is still going strong 30 years in. The guys care deeply about the details that matter and they’re determined to let go of the things that don’t."

Outside of his studio experience with Pearl Jam (he also worked on their 2017 cover of Brandi Carlile's "Again Today" for her Cover Stories tribute album and their 2018 standalone single "Can’t Deny Me"), Evans has also garnered production credits for his engineering and mixing work with artists like Soundgarden, Carlile, Gary Clark, Jr., and the Secret Sisters. However, the particular designation of being a co-producer on Gigaton was not just notable for Evans individually, as it also marked a shift in Pearl Jam’s longtime relationship with GRAMMY-winning producer Brendan O’Brien, who has famously worked with the band on nine of their 10 previous albums. O’Brien still appears on Gigaton playing keyboards on "Quick Escape" and "Retrograde."

Josh Evans: I'm the biggest Brendan O'Brien fan because he's really the reason I got into recording in the first place. When I was a teenager in Seattle in the 1990s, I’d see his name on all of these albums that I loved—Black Crowes, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Pearl Jam, of course. After I started working with the band, I was in the studio with Brendan and the guys during the recording of Backspacer and Lightning Bolt and I found out that a day in the studio with Brendan is like a year's worth of studio knowledge. He’s such an incredible producer and on this album, I just wanted to carry on the high standard that he had already set in his work with them.

As the recording sessions for what would become Gigaton started up in early 2017, Evans quickly noticed that the band was operating within a very open, experimental attitude towards their new songs. Some songs were written with all of the band members jamming together in the same room at the same time and some were systematically built within multiple sessions, across multiple locations, over multiple years. Everyone’s ideas were equally on the table for consideration in service of whatever helped best support each song. This experimental environment is readily apparent in the instrumental tracklisting of the new songs, as Evans is credited with contributing instrumentation to six of the album’s 12 tracks and band members can occasionally be seen playing gear outside of their own sonic status quo: guitarist Stone Gossard played bass on "Dance Of The Clairvoyants," bassist Jeff Ament added kalimba (a metallic African thumb piano) to "Alright" and "River Cross," guitarist Mike McCready contributed some keyboard parts to "Retrograde," and drummer Matt Cameron played guitars on "Take The Long Way" and "Alright."

Josh Evans: Each band member is such a talented multi-instrumentalist—I mean, just listen to any of their solo albums—and I think the instrument-swapping was sort of a side effect of the intentional experimentation process for this record. None of the guys have any ego about who's playing what. They're only concerned about the end result. That was sort of the directive during recording: if it sounds good, we’re keeping it, no matter who’s playing it. On "Dance Of The Clairvoyants," Stone was listening to Matt's electronic drum loop and heard a bass line in his head, so he put it down. When Jeff heard it, he really liked it and didn’t have the ego to think he needed to be the one playing the bass on that song.  Even though Matt is the drummer, he’s such a talented guitar player and laid down a lot of the guitar on "Take The Long Way" and added these nice 12-string acoustic touches on "Alright" that sounded so great. Sometimes they would lay something down and then tell me to mess around with it or add something weird to it myself. It was a very open process and they were very generous and brave to want to share their songs with me like that.

Back in late January, Pearl Jam released Gigaton’s electronic-influenced lead single, "Dance Of The Clairvoyants," along with a trio of interconnected music videos; with the band deeming the third version to be their first official video in over seven years. Critical reception to the band’s bold creative evolution was initially mixed, due in large part to the sonic shift of mechanized-sounding drum patterns, New Wave synth fills, and Vedder’s undeniably Talking Heads-esque vocal delivery. However, while some listeners may yearn for the band’s more signature sonic ingredients, Evans sees the buoyantly captivating single as a refreshing merger of the band’s longtime influences and current creative freedoms.              

Josh Evans: For me, this song is the centerpiece for the record, both sonically and as a representation of this experimental way of working. All of the guys are huge music fans with diverse musical tastes that include some things that would probably surprise most fans. Up until now, the musical references that have come through most noticeably in their songs are the big ones: The Who, Led Zeppelin, Neil Young, Bob Dylan, The Clash, maybe some Springsteen. Those influences have been really clear. But Ed is also a really big fan of stuff like early Genesis and Talking Heads, which is what makes his vocal on "Dance Of The Clairvoyants" sound so natural. It comes from the same place as his Roger Daltrey-esque screams.

One thing that I'm really proud of on this song is how it continually developed and what we were able to do with the drum sounds. It started out simply enough with this electronic drum beat that Matt had made—no harmonic content, no chords, no bassline. Stone really liked it and heard a bassline that he wanted to put on it. Jeff said he could hear some keyboard stuff and the guitars that you hear on the chorus, so he added both of those. Later on, Mike came up with those funky, Bowie-like rhythm guitar stabs that really set the track on fire. After Matt heard everything together, he really wanted to play live drums on it, but everyone loved the feel of what he brought to that original processed beat and they wanted to retain the unique sonic impact of the electronic drums. So, Neil Hundt, who is Matt’s drum tech, and I spent a day in the warehouse studio with all of Matt’s gear trying to find the right combination to recreate the electronic programmed sounds with live acoustic drums. We tried all sorts of different options—taping up the drumheads, putting pillows in the kick drum, "not this one, let’s try that one over there"—so that what you hear on the record is actually Matt's live performance on acoustic drums. The only sound that remained from Matt’s original electronic beat is this specific hi-hat pattern. He also nuanced his playing throughout the recording, starting off real tight and controlled and then gradually opening it up a bit as the song progressed. It all ended up being this cool human-machine kind of performance that’s really the best of both worlds.

A little less than a month after surprising listeners with "Dance Of The Clairvoyants," the band released the album’s second single, a prototypical PJ rumbler called "Superblood Wolfman." In the lead-up to the single's rollout, the band offered up an augmented reality teaser that involved fans visiting a specific website and pointing their smartphones at the moon, which activated onscreen animations and a preview snippet of the new track. Wanting to create another cool music video as well, the band contacted animator Keith Ross of @TinyConcert who draws deceptively simplistic musical shorts with only a ballpoint pen. "Superblood Wolfmoon" is his first full-length music video and perfectly captures the song’s passionately raw, down-and-dirty vibe.         

Josh Evans: For "Superblood Wolfmoon," Ed came in with a pretty fleshed-out demo that he had recorded himself with some guitars laid over a drum machine program. It was kind of sloppy and wild and the guys just wanted to capture that same messy vibe and expand on it a bit within a full band context. We tracked it all in the same room at the same time. The experimental aspect of that one has to do with its arrangement like I still don’t know which part is supposed to be considered the chorus or which section is technically the bridge. On previous albums, we might've tried to chop up the song or define the sections a bit more, but this time around it was more about the energy and the attitude. It’s an exciting and intense song, so we intentionally tried not to overthink it or try to force it into some specific structure.

Earlier this month, the band dropped Gigaton’s final pre-release single, "Quick Escape," a multi-riff monster of a song with a thick, Led Zeppelin-like swagger that thuds and lilts on the impressively propulsive bass-drum-guitar interplay. While this track evokes the "in the room" feel of all five guys looking each other in the eyes as they lock into this massive groove, the truth behind’s its creation is that it was far more a construction than a channeling. In fact, the first time that all five guys actually played “Quick Escape” all together in the same place was during rehearsal for their upcoming tour.

Josh Evans: This one came together through more of a collage-style assembly. It had a few different drum approaches that were chopped and edited. Jeff’s bass part is from his original demo that was recorded in Montana—just a one microphone on a bass amp kind of thing. It just sounded so great that we decided to use it and not rerecord it. Jeff also played those main electric guitar stabs. Stone added that first buzzy solo that you hear and then Mike’s solo at the end is just him lining up all of his effects pedals, dialing in a cool tone, and letting loose. That’s a first-take solo as well, we didn’t touch it up at all. I think this is one that will really hit live and hopefully go on for about five extra minutes at the end.  

“Quick Escape” also features some of Vedder’s most politically direct lyrical commentary since 2002’s “Bu$hleaguer” from the band’s Riot Act album. Using quasi-science fiction themes (alongside shout-outs to Queen and Jack Kerouac), Vedder unfolds a global-to-interstellar journey “to find a place Trump hadn’t fucked up yet.” In the same vein, Vedder also directly calls out Trump – though not exactly by his given name – in the charmingly melodic “Seven O’Clock,” referring to him as “Sitting Bullshit” and wondering “Talking to his mirror, what’s he say, what’s it say back? A tragedy of errors, who’ll be last to have a laugh?” Similarly incensed political sentiments can be found in “Who Ever Said,” “Never Destination” and album closer “River Cross” as well. Though the band has never really shied away from directly engaging in socio-political issues throughout its career, Gigaton feels especially forthright in its attempts to speak clearly and candidly into the current cultural unrest. However, it should be noted that the lasting impression of the album forsakes nihilism and apathy in favor of hope and activism; as evidenced by Vedder’s call-to-action in “Seven O’Clock” (“this fucked-up situation calls for all hands on deck”) and his existential longing in “Superblood Wolfmoon” (“I’ve been hoping that our hope dies last”).    

Josh Evans: There wasn’t a lot of overt discussions regarding any of the lyrics. These guys all trust each other and trust each other’s instincts. When we started up this project in 2017, we started every day like most Americans, drinking a cup of coffee and asking each other if they had seen the previous day’s news: “Can you believe this? What’s going on here?” Like so many other people, we were just trying to make sense of it all. We all have kids and were questioning what kind of world we were creating and leaving for them. These guys have always cared deeply about that. It’s sort of eerie how even more relevant some of these ideas and themes have become in the past few weeks. That’s really the magic of this band is that sometimes it seems they’re tapped into things that we didn’t know where even there to be tapped into. We all have to find something to hang onto because it's dark right now. What’s the alternative these days?

Rounding out the sonically diverse and thematically experimental album are a couple outliers written by other band members (Cameron’s multi-metered "Take The Long Way” and a slippery waltz from Gossard called “Buckle Up”) and two of Vedder’s most emotionally intimate numbers: “Comes The Goes” and “River Cross.” The former finds Vedder having a poignant one-way conversation over his own twangy, acoustic blues strumming and the latter features his moving baritone lamenting over the invitational wheezing of Vedder’s nineteenth-century pump organ. For all of the successful sonic layering and instrumental adventurousness that takes place throughout Gigaton, both “Comes and Goes” and “River Cross” benefit greatly from the band’s underrated use of restraint and space.

Josh Evans: Some of the other songs on the album were really labored over but “Comes Then Goes” was just about capturing Ed’s performance and then not messing with it too much. We added a couple little things, some feedback textures and an electric guitar doubling the acoustic in spots, but it was mainly about Ed’s performance and his lyrics. Same with “River Cross,” the song is so solemn and cinematic that it didn’t need any extra ear candy. It was so cool to be able to mix this ancient-sounding pump organ from the 1800s with modern-day synthesizers and electric guitars in a way that still felt sacred and prayerful. Thelonius Monk had this famous list of rules for musicians and the one that was most powerful to me was “Don’t play everything, some music is just imagined. What you don’t play can be more important than what you do play.” Sometimes you have to just imply what could be there instead of adding so much in. In some songs, it’s more magical for there to be ideas that only exist in the listener’s mind. This band really understands how to leave the space for that to happen.     

How Pearl Jam's "Unplugged" Performance Captured The Grunge Gods' Pop Cultural Rise

Grammys Newsletter

Maceo Plex

Maceo Plex

Photo: Ruben Schmitz

News

How Will Coronavirus Shift Electronic Music? Maceo Plex, Paul Van Dyk, Luttrell, Mikey Lion & DJ Manager Max Leader Weigh In

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"Now, the silver lining could be that people are going to make some amazing music coming out of this. When you don't have the pressure of making a hit track for the club, you usually make something more interesting," Maceo Plex predicts
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Mar 26, 2020 - 12:06 pm

Amidst all the uncertainty of the coronavirus pandemic, one certainty is this will affect everyone in some way, and it already has had huge effects on all who work in the music industry. As major music events like Coachella, Ultra, SXSW, Glastonbury, Time Warp and many more continue to be canceled or postponed, as well as upcoming tour and club dates, many artists, managers, promoters and the crew members are facing gravely reduced or non-existent income over the next few months and possibly beyond.

We reached out to four globe-trotting DJ/producers—Barcelona's Maceo Plex (Ellum Audio), Los Angeles' Mikey Lion (Desert Hearts), San Francisco's Luttrell (Anjunadeep) and Berlin's Paul Van Dyk (Vandit Records)—and London/New York-based DJ manager Max Leader to learn how the pandemic is directly affecting them and those they work with. While this crisis is radically shifting their plans this year, they all see silver linings, especially in the sense of unity felt in the dance music community and, increasingly, humanity as a whole.

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The Show Might Go On

Longtime (he's been in it since '90s raves) underground legend Maceo Plex, a.k.a. Miami-born Eric Estornel, was set to headline Ultra, Movement (which was recently rescheduled from May to September) and Time Warp plus a bunch of major club dates over the next few months. He underscores that this is going to be hard for everyone as they all scrambles to readjust, reschedule and recover losses, and thus will likely reshape the electronic music industry as a whole.

"It's not just DJs it's musicians, bands, anybody that their job is to congregate people together to hear music is affected. That can be promoters, DJs, they all have the same story, club owners, everybody's pretty much screwed. It does give you a sense of unity because everyone's in it together," the Ellum Audio label head told us over the phone late last week.

Chip In Now: Recording Academy And MusiCares Establish COVID-19 Relief Fund

Leader has been in the industry for years, formerly as a promoter and currently, for the past 18 years, as a manager of a roster of major DJs. He also paints the picture of a challenging year for everyone planning and playing events in 2020, highlighting just how many dates and dollars have already been lost.

"The bread and butter for my artists and for me is in live shows. My clients tend to do anywhere from six to 12 shows a month and we work three to six months in advance. So, what happened two weeks ago, was the cancellation or attempt to reschedule the gigs, between one to three months from that moment to three months ahead," he explained during a phone chat last week. "And the promoters that were booking for three to six months from that point, were not booking anymore because they didn't know what was going on, which means that you're already at nine months of no shows. So, if you start looking at nine to 12 months, it means in the space of two weeks, you're suddenly 12 months away from receiving any income from touring."

Canceling even just a few shows could be financially crushing to promoters, as well as the clubs and everyone else who works for them. "Also, these promoters, some of them are weekly promoters, some of them are monthly promoters, and they try to honor deals. Now you lose one show for artists of the caliber that I work with, you could lose $25,000, $30,000. If you lose that amount two or three times in a row, you could be out of business," Leader noted.

For Estornel, van Dyk and Leader, their long, successful careers have put them in a place where they are currently okay financially. Of course, dipping too far into savings is stressful, as is not having an income stream to share with your team. "I'm already going into savings, because of having to cancel the ongoing business," Leader added. "I would say that my business is 90 percent gigs, so I have effectively lost 90 percent of my business right now. And it happened immediately. It happened overnight."

Estronel was set to debut his new M^3 live show in Los Angeles on March 14, which, as he put it, ended up being "the first weekend that no events were happening pretty much anywhere." Two days before the event, California banned all gatherings over 250 people (now restrictions are even tighter) in the interest of public health and safety.

"I was waiting, too. I'm not a promoter, but I was promoting [M^3] pretty much in conjunction with Factory 93, so I already had the production and all the equipment and everything paid for. So that's why it's super important to reschedule. But, at the same time, I think Factory 93 was giving money back to whoever wanted it. I don't know how they were doing it, but I had to pay for a lot of that production out of my pocket. It was already there and I was like, 'Well, f**k it. Let's do this stream.' That wasn't anywhere near what we were going to have planned for the holograms and all kinds of crazy stuff, but at least we used some of the cool lights. So those can kind of come together quickly."

Both van Dyk and Luttrell had major tours slated this year in support of their 2020 albums—the German trance legend's 10th album, Guiding Light, drops on April 17, while the S.F. deep house hero's sophomore LP, Lucky Ones, came out on March 13. Of course, with global spring dates, both tours have been put on hold.

Luttrell was also set to make his Coachella stage debut in April, which will now have to wait until October. "It's affected it quite a bit thus far. I have an album tour that was set to begin April 2. Now everything is being pushed back a few months to end of July through August. Feeling good about getting most of the shows rescheduled at least!" he shared over email.

For Mikey Lion and his Desert Hearts crew (the label/party maestro squad he leads and co-founded in 2012 in San Diego), their flagship "72+ hours of nonstop house and techno" festival was slated for April 23-26, but luckily they were able to find new dates pretty quickly. Some of the other festivals the crew were booked to play have also been affected, including at Lighting in a Bottle, whose 2020 edition was canceled, and Vujaday in Barbados, which was postponed to November. Desert Hearts is also beloved for the fun club nights and block parties they throw in a bunch of different cities. Those will have to wait this year as well.

"We postponed the festival to Oct. 22 to 26, 2020. Luckily our fest is in a really good place right now to come back because we were able to find a make-up date quickly and we didn't have too many deposits out there right now because we were monitoring the whole situation," Lion explained over the phone. He noted how this is not necessarily the case for other independent festivals and events, and that could have far-reaching negative effects in the industry. "I think that that's probably the biggest problem that all the other festivals are going through right now, is that if you're an independent festival that's not backed by Live Nation, AEG or some other big financial backer, you're using your ticket money to secure the acts that you're having, all the equipment, everything. You have so many deposits out there. Then we have this totally unforeseen disease that's coming through and everyone's having to cancel, and then all of a sudden all the fans are looking for refunds and those festivals don't have the money to be paying their fans back because it's all tied up, it creates this really hectic ecosystem where the fans think that they're getting ripped off and festivals can't do anything about it."

For all the events and festivals that are able to successfully reschedule and bring the majority of their lineup with them, that is a big relief, but of course a year's worth of events can't all happen in the fall and winter, especially outdoor events in colder climates. And who will get to play in the more limited event pool? Probably the bigger DJs, for the most part, with less slots for local opening acts—and less money for everyone overall. It is hard to predict exactly how hard the crisis will strike the global economy, but it has already done damage, with many hourly or gig workers currently out of work. For most people, the less income they make, the less money they will spend on going out, festival tickets and travel, so it becomes harder to get people to clubs and festivals.

"The festivals are already rescheduling and they're not going to be able to pay the same," Estornel noted. "So DJs fees are definitely going to go down in general. Which is kind of a trickle-down effect; the bigger DJs will have to charge less and some of the smaller DJs' fees will then obviously go down as well. Then resident DJs that live in that city might not even play at all. Or if they do, for very cheap, because the promoters are not going to be able to charge the same entrance at the same ticket price or entrance at their clubs or whatever because people are not going to have any money,

"Rescheduling events, in my case, because of the fact that I'm in a position to headline, I get to reschedule first before others. I feel bad for all the other people that are, to promoters, maybe second or third tier artists that aren't getting rescheduled right away… I'm in a position where I can't complain because I can reschedule. But then again, I can't because I'm booked. I was booked up for the rest of the year."

Estornel also underscores that festivals moving towards later dates is going to cut into the bottom line of clubs, as everyone is now competing for a limited window of dates and likely a smaller pool of attendees with any money to spend on nights out. "A lot of these festivals are moving to those [later] months and they're going to take up a lot of the weekends that clubs function really well in those parts. So economically, it looks pretty crazy," he explained.

Leader echoed both of these points, that there are a limited number of dates for events and DJs to fill for the rest of the year and smaller pool of money for everyone. He is also cautious about predicting that events will be back up and running before at least a few months off. He notes recent conversations he's had with promoters, those who are looking ahead to book fall/winter dates—no one can pay deposits right now. Everyone is pretty much just trying to stay afloat at this point.

"The conversation that I do have with bigger promoters is, 'Okay, we're looking at the last two weekends in October, the first two in November, the New Year's Eve, we're looking to fill these holes. This is who I want from your roster on that. However, obviously we can't contract this right now. We obviously can't pay any deposits for it right now," Leader said.

Livestream Nation

van Dyk explains how not being able to travel to his sold-out Moscow show on March 13 led him to play via livestream to the packed venue in Russia from an empty club in Berlin. From that experience, he decided to launch a weekly livestream series from the club, which he's calling PC Music Night. He and fellow German DJ/producer Chris Bekker have shared two livestreams so far, much to the delight of trance and progressive house fans around the world.

"I was supposed to play in Moscow last weekend and because they have restrictions of people from Germany flying into Russia because of the Coronavirus and you have to go into quarantine," van Dyk explained. "What do people do when their shows are canceled and something cannot happen? Well we use the latest technology. We came up with the idea of me going into an empty club here in Berlin, have everything set up and then stream my performance from Berlin live to Moscow. It obviously is not the same as me being there because, it's difficult to interact. I had a little monitor so I was able to see what's going on in the venue in Moscow, but it was one way to sort of cope with the grim times and the possibilities that there are right now. and we came up with an idea from that streaming experience."

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Since both the epic Paul van Dyk and Maceo Plex sets aired on March 13 and 14, respectively, many DJs and artists have understandably jumped on the livestream wagon, craving a way to continue to share their music with the world and engage with their fans. It's safe to say that music livestream offerings are a bit oversaturated at the moment, but it has been fun to see the different ways artists and their fanbases have been engaging with them. For Estornel, he's aiming to think outside of the box when it comes to interacting with his fans during quarantine times:

"Everything's flooded with DJs doing streams. So now I'm thinking of new ideas… something more interesting. Somewhere between nerdy, like a studio talk but musical where you could dance to it. Hopefully we'll do something for these months, until things get back to normal."

Since we spoke last week, Lion and the Desert Hearts squad have started a new daily livestream series that's very on-brand with their colorful, playful vibes. Stepping out of the box a bit, the eclectic offerings include Q&A on Mondays with Lion, cooking lessons with his brother and labelmate Porky on Tuesday, yoga on Wednesdays and DJ sets from the squad on Sundays.

It's About Time For Unity!

While not being able to interact with others "irl" is difficult for all of us, connecting online, especially over music, can be especially powerful during these times of isolation. van Dyk witnessed this during his first PC Music Night livestream, where he encouraged fans to send track requests and special shout-outs in the comments.

"Chris Bekker and myself played for five hours for free for everyone who wanted to join, just simply to put a smile on people's faces, for people to connect. There was so much interaction going on from people from the U.S. talking to people from Italy, from Italy talking to people in South America. It's like they were all interconnecting. There was a sense of community, a sense of being there for each other. That is the essence of what we are trying to do with this DJ set."

The Berlin legend underscored the importance of staying in touch with others while we are apart, as during times of global distress, we all need comfort and support. "It's those little things to still be there for each other. I don't really like the term social distancing because what we have to do is stay physically apart from each other. But if anything, we should be socially closer and support each other. I think this is what we can do, and this is what we should do in crazy times like this."

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Seeing as the coronavirus crisis really does affect everyone, van Dyk sees this as an opportunity to put aside our differences and practice real empathy and growth. "In these times right now, I think we can all interconnect. At the end, of the day it doesn't really matter if you're a Trump supporter or if you support Sanders. At the end of the day, it's about the species, us as humans. Everyone is affected by it. We have to be there for each other. And that's about actually putting the human first, putting the real us first and therefore being there for each other," he added.

Lion pointed to the surprising and rather atypical unity we're seeing here in the States between Democrats and Republicans as they try to address the crisis is something to be celebrated. It could also have policy implications that change our lives for the better going forward.

"I think that things like universal healthcare and ideas like universal basic income are at the forefront right now of things we're realizing would be a massive help. It's crazy to see Republicans even embracing those things right now because of the situation that we're in. I don't think they would ever come to grips with and accept it unless they're seeing it affect them," Lion stated. "Hopefully we start getting some relief for people that are really struggling right now."

"I think that people are going to come out of this much more understanding of other people's situations and we are all in this together," he added. "I think that we're going to start seeing a lot more compassion from people in the world."

Luttrell echoed their messages, in sharing what gives him the most hope right now: "I feel like a big crisis like this—especially one that affects the world all at once—gives us an opportunity to come together and become closer as humans on this planet."

In the midst of trying to reschedule, reorganize and roll with the waves of the world, everyone we spoke to has already felt unity across the electronic music scene and the larger music and events industry. As Lion noted, many artists have been understanding about returning deposits for canceled events, given the circumstances, even though money will not really be coming in for a bit. At the end of the day, everyone in entertainment is more or less in the same boat right now.

"For the most part, I think that agencies and the artists are being really cool with getting back to the deposits in a lot of circumstances because I think everyone gets it, that we're all in this together," Lion said. "People are definitely working together on it. At the same time, that's money coming out from the artists and all of our foreseeable calendar just got completely wiped out, basically. I don't have any income coming, none of the other Desert Heart guys do, and we don't know how long this is going to last.

"It's a really harrowing experience, and it's not just the artists that are going through it, it's the managers, the agents, all the photographers and videographers, security, bartenders, all the logistics people to build teams. The list goes on and on and that's just the music industry. You know, the entire entertainment industry is getting absolutely battered right now. Think about Las Vegas, it's a city of almost 700,000 people and their entire ecosystem is based on entertainment. That entire city's pretty much out of work right now, I'd imagine."

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For van Dyk, it is important to him to be able to personally esure his regular team is financially stable during this time. "It requires us being socially aware of our surroundings, of the people who need help and then actually do something. I'm committed to do this in this way, and therefore I don't think my crew needs to be too worried about it."



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Here's a fantastic new video that we've made for you, I hope you enjoy it.⁣ ⁣ When I wrote this song and named this album, I never expected it would be released during a time like this. However, instead of dwelling on the obvious and unfortunate irony of it all, I'm trying to make a conscious decision to continue reminding myself just how fortunate I am.⁣ ⁣ I make music. I’m not putting myself in danger every day like the medical professionals and everyone still out there working to keep our society running - like the head of the CDC, or the people keeping grocery stores stocked and functional - but I do hope that what I have to offer can help bring joy to people feeling stressed, overwhelmed, scared or hopeless right now.⁣ ⁣ If you’re stuck inside like the rest of us, put this music video on and dance around in your apartment, or lay in your bed holding your phone watching it, whatever you feel like. If you have one, get your dog all riled up. Give them lots of belly rubs and laugh at them zooming around the house to the music. Imagine how happy dogs are right now? Their favorite people are home all day. They’ll never disappear for hours on end (which to them probably seems like days). Dogs are possibly the most stoked they’ve ever been in history. Sadly, I don’t have a dog cause my landlord doesn’t allow them, but thinking of all the dogs out there living their best life with their favorite humans that are stuck at home right now makes me really happy.

A post shared by Luttrell (@ericluttrell) on

To Release Or Not To Release?

As van Dyk put it, music is a necessity in most people's lives, especially those who make it. Music plays an important part in all of our daily lives, and right now feels like a time where many of us are turning to music to escape or to dive into our feelings. "I'm a musician. To me, music is an essential of part of my life. When I'm sad I'm listening to music. When I'm happy, I'm listening to music. When I'm somewhat in between, I'm still listening to music. It's my passion. Therefore, music is something that's essential, from my perspective, in everyone's life," the German artist said.

"Right now, everyone has endless time on their hands," Lion added. "People are digging, people are paying attention, everyone's at their computer. It is a good time to get stuff into people's hands and really try to affect people in a positive way. Music's absolutely one of the best ways to do it."

"To me, music is an essential of part of my life. When I'm sad I'm listening to music. When I'm happy, I'm listening to music. When I'm somewhat in between, I'm still listening to music. It's my passion." – Paul van Dyk

Perhaps it's a great time to put out an uplifting track or music video, but what about releasing an album or club cuts? While many in the industry seem to be encouraging fans to support their favorite artists with online album and merch sales, other entities, like Amazon and even some artists themselves, have decided now is not necessary a good time to release projects. If you can't tour in support of the release, will the financial investment in the project be worth it?

For electronic artists specifically, who support and promote each others' new, often then-unreleased, records by playing them at their DJ sets around the world, the hype and release cycle just had a big wrench thrown through it. Additionally, if most of the DJs of the world are hunkering down in their home studios right now, which tracks and albums will cut through the noise when everything is dropped in a few months?

Leader's comments speak to this, and the "hustle," as he put it, that will ensue to get the gigs and have your music heard this year.

"You can definitely plan ahead in terms of what you're releasing to the world. Everyone is assuming that come July, August, this will die down. I personally am not having conversations besides with the most optimistic of promoters about shows, pre-October, right now. And really, most of the conversations are 'Well, let's see what the next couple weeks unfolds for us,' so you're not really banking on anything there. But in terms of products or music being released, and social media, building your fan base, and working on consultancy jobs or working with brands, there's still some business out there that can be done. It's a hustle."

"One thing that I am thinking is that all these DJs who usually are gigging Friday, Saturday and Sunday, home on Monday, recovering on Tuesday, making music on Wednesday, and then getting ready to tour again on Thursday, are finally having long periods of time to actually make music. And so, I think what we'll find is a plethora of music coming out at the same time, which has an effect on the developing artists," Leader continued. "Even if I'm looking in October [for their release], I think the market is going to be really excited about the [bigger] producer who's finally released some new material because they had four, five months off the road."

Estornel and Lion also spoke to releasing tracks during the age of COVID-19:

"You don't sell music to dance to or to DJ to when nobody can go out and dance," Estornel explained. "They're not really selling that much music. You have all these artists that had their releases planned and it's like if you postpone the schedule, then their music doesn't come out until way later, when that music's old, basically."

"You can't really go test out new tracks now. I feel like the entire record label promo system right now is just worthless, because how are people even going to go try out your tracks or get feedback on stuff?" Lion says. "I've been seeing a lot of artists go to moving all their stuff over to Bandcamp because it's a much more direct peer-to-peer system over there than having a middle man like Apple Music or Beatport. I'm actually running through and getting our Bandcamp set up today."

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Creativity & The Future Of Dance Music

Regardless of artists' personal stances on releasing new music now, it's likely many of them will be using the ample free time to work on music in some way. 

"The city where I live, San Francisco is now on lockdown," Luttrell said. "I won't be traveling outside my apartment much the next few weeks. I'll take it as an opportunity to focus on having more interaction with fans online and come up with fun ways to promote different songs on the album... I'm already working on a bunch of new songs that will eventually be the next album, so I feel like there's going to be a lot of time to make that really special. A lot of those songs will have been written during this lock down in S.F., so maybe I'll use the weirdness of it all as some sort of inspiration."

Similarly, van Dyk also feels new music will come out of this experience for him. "I finished my new album," he said. "I was ready to be out on the road in the world to play my music in front of my audience. So it's a bit of a strange timing for me, but I constantly make music and so, I'm pretty sure whatever extra time I have at hands now, some music will come out of it."

Leader also sees these times as a creative challenge and powerful reset for his work. "I think that everyone's playing from a level playground now. You know, everyone is suffering, and in a way, we're all in it together for that reason. And I'm optimistic by nature. I believe that this will end, and we will get back to business, and that it allowed me to really think outside the box in terms of my business. If you're in an intense job like I'm sure you have, you're going a million miles an hour, and you always wish you had a second to breathe, this is giving us that second."

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Estornel, who has a young son, acknowledges the challenge of working from home if you have kids that are now out of school. Yet he is embracing the creative exploration that may likely come from the reduced pressure he and other DJs are inevitably facing to make the next club banger. 

"Now, the silver lining could be that people are going to make some amazing music coming out of this. When you don't have the pressure of making a hit track for the club, you usually make something more interesting," Estornel said. "So maybe something new will come out of this, but for the most part it also kind of depresses people because if things are kind of bad out there and you're making dance music and nobody's dancing. It's like, f**k. You don't feel inspired. It's tough.

Maceo Plex added, "I feel less pressure to make a bomb kind of, because there's no reason to right now. In the past, the reason why I have any kind of a bigger name is for all the music that I made that I wasn't worrying about making a bomb. I was just trying to make something that was cool and creative, or pretty or just different sounding tracks. Those ended up becoming bombs. So, I mean, it's kind of good. Creatively, I don't have that pressure. So I might have a bomb after this, I don't know. I'd rather not think about it."

Regardless of whether or not the world is gifted any glittering Maceo Plex bombs over the next month, electronic music will be shifting. With a halt as drastic as this, there is no way things will remain exactly the same when we return to the dancefloor. He sees parallels to the disco backlash in the late-70s that, while harrowing, directly led to the emergence of house music and thriving underground scenes in Chicago, New York City and beyond. As the saying goes, when one door closes, another one opens.

"I think this may be the biggest blow to clubbing since the disco backlash back in the late-'70s, early 80s when everybody was for just a moment it was like this media-driven burning of disco records and stuff." Maceo Plex said. "Since then, clubbing got bigger and better and dance music got way more popular over the past 30, 40 years. I think this is kind of like a reset. I'm hopeful we're going to come out of this strong. Nothing can really stop people from listening to dance music and dancing. …We'll be fine, in other words. It's just that it's going to take a couple of years to get back to the size of festivals that we were used to for a little while. They're kind of almost ridiculous at this point; 100,000 people festivals and stuff like that. I don't feel bad for them as much but because they've made so much money, but EDM, this is probably going to be such a huge blow to commercial EDM music more so than underground music."

"I think underground dance music's going to get big. It's going to get bigger, in a way. It's going to see a Renaissance," Estornel concluded. "Whatever happens, the dance music community is in for a wild ride, with new faces and sounds likely emerging over the coming years."

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Photo: Matt Correia

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Cosmic Americana Duo Mapache On 'From Liberty Street,' Honoring Neal Casal & (Briefly) Going Electric

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The "Life On Fire" singer/songwriters, who drop their highly anticipated sophomore album today, talk recording process, Mexican cultural influences, releasing an album during the pandemic and more...
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Mar 20, 2020 - 9:43 am

From note one, the intrinsic musical connection between Mapache's Sam Blassuci and Clay Finch is eerily apparent and feels all at once fresh, timeless and just right. Anyone lucky enough to see Mapache perform live, they understand why the L.A. folk duo has been turning heads with their weaving acoustic guitars and gorgeous yet earthy harmonized vocals create a psychedelic Americana style that once led Aquarium Drunkard to write, “think a blazed up Everly Brothers.”

While the duo's musical partnership goes way back to high school, they went on to crystalize their chops—and their style—together in Grateful Shred, a slightly looser-than-usual Dead tribute band less focused on fidelity in reproducing classic show setlists or tones and more free to add a dash of flair of their own. This music, and this scene in Los Angeles, turned out to be the perfect breeding ground for Sam and Clay's talents, connection and creativity.

As Mapache, the duo released their debut self-titled album in 2017 followed by their three-song Lonesome LA Cowboy EP in 2019. Their sophomore album arrives today, met by both wild anticipation from its stellar advanced singles and widespread uncertainty of a world in the middle of the global coronavirus pandemic. But for Mapache, music is the only way.

"Since there is so much uncertainty, it makes it all the more certain that we definitely want to get this record out as soon as possible," said Blassucci

"Releasing a record [now] is maybe better timing if everyone's going to be stuck at home anyway, so if you can't come see us play in a club, you can at least listen to some new music," Finch added.

We hopped on the phone with Sam and Clay of Mapache earlier this week to hear about the making of From Liberty Street, their involvement in the upcoming Neal Casal tribute album, and the first time they plugged in for an electric guitar for a Mapache recording…

From Liberty Street is out Friday, March 20. Can you tell us how you recorded it with Dan Horne [Cass McCombs, Allah-Las}? What were those sessions like?

Clay: It was cool because the studio with downstairs from the house we were living at, so it gave us a lot of flexibility. The first album we recorded pretty much in a couple of days at a studio in the Valley. But having the studio at the house we lived in it made for a much more relaxed environment and gave us more time to experiment with stuff. And it also presented a sort of a unique situation where lots of our buddies were just coming through anyway. The house on Liberty Street was sort of a meeting spot, kind of like a house where people would go to hang out anyway. So there was always awesome musicians around and so our circle friends and artists definitely expanded a lot while we were there, and I think that was definitely reflected in the recording process, too. There was a lot more hands on deck and different sounds and instruments being added.

Hearing about the house, it's hard not to think about the Dead house and what was going on 50 years ago in Haight Ashbury. And do you feel like it's a modern incarnation of that same spirit?

Sam: Yeah, I think it is just how it sounds, living in a house and it has that kind of home vibe. It's different than going into a studio built and dedicated for just studio activities. We were making the music where we were also eating and sleeping and living and listening to music and watch television and all that stuff. So it definitely had a much more homey vibe that was maybe similar to any bands that have taken that approach. Like living in a house and having it be that kind of community that's a seal, yeah.

"Life On Fire" is getting a lot of attention, and It was fun to watch the room come alive when you played it at the release show. Can you tell me where that song came from and what it's been like to see it take off so quickly?

Sam: That song actually we wrote several years ago before the first record came up that we put out, came out. So we have had it for a long time. For whatever reason, it wasn't ready or it feel right to put it on the first record. And we sort of just had it as a jam or like a back-pocket thing that we would play sometimes time, and then we decided to record it for this next or the one that's coming out now. And it was just bare. Before we went into recorded, it was so bare-bones, it was just the two guitars. And the singing the way we did it on Thursday night.

And then as soon as we got our friend Austin Beede into play drums on it, that immediately took it to a different feel right away. And then Clay and I had been listening to this one Brazilian record that gave us the idea for the baseline that we were kind of hearing over Austin's drumming, and so we told Dan about that and we kind of worked that in and it just kind of... it was one of the songs that kind of tumbled along in the studio as we were doing it, which is really fun, and it has to be our friend Dusty Ineman came in and played congas on it, which also added a whole 'nother layer that was really unexpected and really nice and it was really fun to watch that one tumble into the song that it became.

Clay: It seemed like there was also a lot of people singing along when we did that one on Thursday, which happens every once in a while, where people sing along. But it was a pretty cool to see people singing along to a song that hasn't been out for very long. That was surprising, exciting.

Oh, definitely. There was a whole group of people in front that seemed like that was the song they came to hear. I also love the guitar solo and the recording. Who played the solo?

Sam: Clay played that solo and it's really, it's funny, I always kind of smile at that solo because it's the first time you've ever used an electric guitar on any recording of a Mapache song, and you can totally tell at least I can totally tell it's him when I listen to it cause it's so delicately played and it just sounds like it's a new element, and I think it's a great solo as well, but it has that kind of vibe.

You also write songs in Spanish always, which I think is unique. It makes me think of Warren Zevon's "Carmelita," your style with that influence. But I've read you both lived in Mexico. What can you tell me about your time living in Mexico and how it influenced the band's music?

Sam: Well, growing up in Southern California, we already were exposed to a lot of Mexican culture that was really important to the music we listened to even before I had gone to live in Mexico, but I did live in Mexico for two years, which obviously was the biggest immersion that I've had into that into Mexican culture and Mexican music. But there always was a little bit of an underlying base of that influenced just having grown up here and having that interest in it, just being here all our lives.

Clay: I think it's interesting, too, that you made that Warren Zevon connection because a lot of people, when they ask us about that influence, sort of seems like it's put together like of from nowhere. But there's sort of a long running tradition of people in our sort of musical world drawing heavily from music from Mexico, too. Like Peter Rowan, too, and yeah, Warren Zevon and even the [Flying] Burrito Brothers, and a whole bunch of artists.

You are on the upcoming Neal Casal tribute album, Highway Butterfly, and I just saw from his posts that you recorded it up at Jim Scott's studio [Plyrz]. Why you picked Neal's son "Wisest of the Wise" what he meant to you as both the musical influence and as a friend.

Sam: Well that song sort of just stuck out to us. It was real simple and had real sweet lyrics and seemed like something that we could play and honor Neal with and do something maybe unique with, too, and make our own spin on it. And it was real cool to go up to that spot in Santa Clarita and mess around in that studio, it's pretty massive and there's a bunch of cool stuff, and a bunch of buddies were hanging out.

As far as Neal, one thing that comes to mind that I think represents well the kind of person he was, I think got really stuck out to me: We opened for Circles Around The Sun for a good handful of shows, and Neal would watch pretty much the entirety of our soundcheck…

Clay: And clap after we finished each song.

Sam: Yeah, which is so rare. I mean especially for a guy like him who tours so extensively. It's almost always, during soundcheck, that's time to take a nap on a couch or at least like sneak out and read a book or look at your phone or something. But it always meant a lot that Neal was just so in love with music that he would even watch our soundcheck. Yeah.

Clay: And that's less of a compliment to our music and more of just a compliment to Neal's feelings about music in general, and his interest, and just sort of like an act of like just showing that he cared. That meant so much to us.

The new album comes out March 20 - how does it feel to be putting out your second album in such complicated times of uncertainty?

Sam: I think it feels like the right thing to do. I think with everything going on, since there is so much uncertainty, it makes it all the more certain that we definitely want to get this record out as soon as possible.

Clay: Going on the road is going to be hard the next couple of months, so releasing a record [now] is maybe better timing if everyone's going to be stuck at home anyway, so if you can't come see us play in a club, you can at least listen to some new music.

As working, touring musicians unable to hit the road now, what are you planning on doing the next couple of months during this time of isolation?

Sam: We're definitely going to do a lot of reading and writing and maybe some recording and playing together. We lived together so we were not too isolated. you know everything we can other than going out into everybody's towns and playing.

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