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The Naked And Famous

The Naked And Famous

Photo: Larsen Sotelo

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The Naked And Famous On New LP 'Recover' & More naked-and-famous-talk-new-album-recover-covering-weeknd-allyship-black-community

The Naked And Famous Talk New Album 'Recover,' Covering The Weeknd & Allyship With The Black Community

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Alisa Xayalith and Thom Powers also spoke candidly about staying grounded during a pandemic and how the music industry can better support Black artists, among other vital topics
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jul 24, 2020 - 6:28 pm

New Zealand electro-pop act The Naked And Famous were big in the golden era of the indie/alt scene, thanks to their powerhouse 2010 debut album, Passive Me, Aggressive You, and survived to talk about it, with creative energy to spare. After their romantic relationship ending in 2014 and the other members leaving the band in 2017, Alisa Xayalith and Thom Powers recentered and reinvented the project's creative flow, even shifting the sound to somewhat sunnier territory.

The result is Recover, their fourth studio album, released today, July 24. Across its 15 tracks, the duo explores themes of death, mourning, heartbreak, recovery and identity, all with an unwavering sense of honesty and lightness. Throughout the project, there is a powerful feeling of the pair exploring and creating space for all emotions. There's even unbridled gratitude and joy, with an ode to Xayalith's dog on the effervescent "Sunseeker."

Ahead of the album's drop, Xayalith and Powers called in from New Zealand and Los Angeles, respectively, to chat with GRAMMY.com and dive deep into creative process behind it. They also spoke candidly about staying grounded during a pandemic and how the music industry can better support Black artists, among other important topics.

Your new album Recover comes out in July. What are you most looking forward to about sharing this project with the world?

Xayalith: I think I am just really excited to get it out there. I mean Thom and I have gone on a journey the last two years to get to this point. For me personally, I'm just relieved to just finally get the work out there so people can listen to what we have been working on. And I really hope that during this time it helps people escape from the current state of the world. I also hope people can see it and enjoy it.

When did you finish working on it?

Xayalith: We finished everything around December.

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When did you start the album and what was the seedling of the beginning of the album? Also, what was the creative process like along the way?

Powers: We began recording this one around 2017, which is right about when our other band members left. Alisa and I began doing what we usually do; we start writing songs and we make demos. Regardless of what we are doing, we are often making demos. But we didn't really hit our stride, really figure out what we were doing until the summer of 2018. Everything up until that point was trial and error, we were trying writing positions, working with other people. Some of them came out okay, but we were looking for a new sound, a new direction, a new framework. We had this exceptionally productive burst of creativity in the summer of 2018.

The first song that was written for the new album was "Recover," which is one of the reasons we advocated for it to be the name of the album and the first track because it was really symbolic. It was this turning point. The way that song was written, I was waiting at Alisa's house in her studio with a friend of ours who was doing some co-writing and co-producing with us, his name is Simon Oscroft. He's an old friend of mine from childhood and he does songwriting and producing in L.A. now. Alisa was out, running an errand. She comes storming into her house while we're having coffee, like "I've written this song in the car." She burst into the room with "Recover," with the chorus already written. That was the moment when we hit our stride.

The bulk of the album was written then, in summer 2018, I want to say two-thirds of it. And the remaining third, was the good songs from the time prior to that that we hung on to, but we had to wait until we had the new direction to re-approach and re-conceptualize them. That is the short version of how this came about.

I would love to hear a little bit more about what finding that new sound felt like.

Powers: Yeah it was definitely a eureka moment with that song. It was an obvious turning point, and right after "Recover" we dove right into the album. There were a handful of other songs like "Sunseeker," "Come As You Are," "Easy," "Everybody Knows," that we were just churning out over the course of the month. In the first two weeks most of them came out. It was very clear to us when we had "Recover," that we had something new. And then "Sunseeker" followed it up very promptly, we knew we'd found our new direction. We had found our new way to complete this album, which was great.

Xayalith: When we wrote "Recover," originally it was very traditional sounding, kind of a soft folk song. We recorded it with guitar, some piano and vocals. And Thom was like, "How about we record it this way and then reverse engineer it, drop it into a session and then add some electronic production." So the scene would change quite rapidly in the song and you're not expecting so. How Simon and Thom produced it prompted how they would continue to work together on writing in the days after. I think that alone added some evolution to the production of the songs that you hear on the record.

Where did the idea for the "Bury Me" video come from? And was as fun shooting it as it looked.

Xayalith: Thom has been wanting to direct music videos more, and it was like the perfect opportunity for him to jump in. The minute I read [the treatment,] I just cracked up, I thought it was absolutely hilarious. We finished it out with our creative director, who helped us organize everything and put it together, but it was Thom's hilarious brainchild of the video treatment.

Powers: I came up with it one night at a bar. I had the idea that Alisa just kept killing people, and then I would cover it up. I got worried along the way that it was going to be sort of a male savior complex. It made more sense to have me equally as responsible for all the catastrophes in the video. We tried to combat that [complex], I cover up her mistake and I am driving the car and the first thing I do is run Luna [Shadows, who co-wrote and co-produced the track with them] over. So hopefully I got rid of that angle and parodied it a bit.

I loved making that video, it was a lot of fun. I don't usually have fun making videos per say. I do enjoy being on set and there is a joy that comes from doing it, it is exciting with all the drama and fuss of making videos. But it can be kind of anxiety inducing because it is very difficult to make something satisfying on a low budget. We don't have millions of dollars to spend on a video. And fortunately, that video had so much planning that went into it that it came out really well for not having a massive budget. We are really proud of it. We had an amazing team on it as well that made it come to life. They are all in the credits on YouTube, we always want to direct people to check them out.

Xayalith: If we go back and look at the music videos, we've never really gotten in them as much. We really took the opportunity to make music videos to tune in on an identity that wasn't really there before. And this music video, I feel like it gave Thom and I a chance to not take ourselves so seriously and so people can see another side of us that they have never seen before. I think that has been something really fun and new for ourselves and people who have been a longtime fan of the band.

The one scene where I have blood splattered on my face, we only had one shot for that, one shot because we only had just enough blood for one squirt, so I had two people on either side of me on their knees with their hands held up to my face and they squeezed it and I was like "Okay, I cannot laugh." It was so funny, after we cut everyone erupted into laughter.

Read: Lady Gaga, The Naked And Famous, Bruno Major & More Artists Talk Staying Grounded During Quarantine

On the album, the messages on "Recover" and "Death" feel especially poignant during these trying times. Can you speak to the story behind "Death," what it meant to you recording it then and how it feels listening to it now?

Powers: Thank you, that is such a flattering question. That song has an interesting story about how it was put together, and the starting point particularly. But the line that I stole, again, stealing more of Luna Shadows' creative content. We live together and she has this gorgeous, secret solo project which she just keeps on voice memos. She sent me one of them and it has that line "We both like the idea of / dying by the ocean side / maybe there is nothing more?" It is a love song but I wanted to steal lyrics from her own song and sing it back to her.

And then Alisa, Simon and I wrote this love song and it was fun for me to get an opportunity on this record to be a topliner. For that song, I got to switch roles. Usually I am the one sitting at the computer and doing the tracks. Like on "Recover," and you can hear it is very much Alisa's story, her lyrics. You couldn't create that on a committee, which a lot of Los Angeles songwriting is like—very impersonal and without a universality to it, weirdly, even though it is written that way. With "Recover," Alisa is the topliner, and Simon and I were the producers and the co-writers, so we might fill in lyrics and suggest melodies and lines, but the narrative is coming from one person. My belief is you really need that in a song. I got the opportunity on this album to do that, where Simon was running the computer and Alisa was my co-writer. I haven't had an opportunity to do that on other albums because we haven't worked with someone like Simon who I trusted enough to run the session.

I am not a happy person, I am someone who is consumed by thinking about death and ethics and mortality and the pointlessness and meaninglessness of existence. I wanted to try and write a song about that. But it ended up being really—I don't want to say fun, but it's groovy and it has a gentle quality to the song which is really beautiful and satisfying.

The song is kind of challenging ideas that people have about finding meaning in life. There is this silly idea that if you don't believe in a higher power, or something superstitious, or don't have magical thinking, then why do you get up in the morning? I think there is a deeper meaning in that this is all you have, this is it—it is even more precious. All the meaning you can get in life is right in front of you. "Death" is both a love song but also a love song to that idea. I am really proud of it.

I love your cover of The Weeknd for Triple J—why did you choose to sing "Blinding Lights?"

Xayalith: I am a huge fan of The Weeknd. So when he released it, it was just something I was listening to a lot. Out of a few choices we had, it was the one that made the most sense. If you listen to the song, and the album, he's taken a lot of '80s pop and synths on this record. It was kind of exciting for us to take that. Thom just nailed, just whipped up the demo really quickly.

We turned it around pretty quickly. In the history of the band, we normally go over everything for a while. It was just like, "cool, the music is done, let's go." It was a really fun challenge for us to do that. We have never done a Triple J "Like A Version" before, so we wanted to make sure it was a song that we enjoyed.

If you could record any other cover, what would it be?

Xayalith: Well, I am a huge fan of Caroline Polachek and "So Hot You're Hurting My Feelings" was another one of our choices. I absolutely adore that song. If we were to record another, that would be the next one.

So, it's now been a decade since you released your dreamy debut album, Passive Me, Aggressive You. If you could go back and give that version of yourself any advice, what would it be?

Xayalith: Don't fight the process.

I really fought with myself. I put a lot of pressure on myself when I was younger to get things done, without realizing that part of the process is the work and going through the motions of coming up with an idea. I would get frustrated at myself because I didn't like the pace at which I was creating. If I could go back in time, I would just tell myself to not fight the process and to just flow through it.

Powers: Oh my god. I feel like it's things I would correct myself on. We've been talking about this a lot in interviews lately because of the time period. I guess for some reason it's a symbolic check point. And it feels long enough as a measurement to want to ask "What is different now, how do you feel now?" I think I regret so much of who I was.

I am a person who is self-loathing by nature anyways. I think that looking at myself 10 years ago, I hold myself responsible for so many things that I am unhappy with about my life now. I think I can really see the faults in myself and in the life I have and the things that I am unhappy about as being a product of me. So I really do wish I could go back and correct and adjust my attitude.

I think I could teach myself a few things that I am really happy our culture has created. I am a fan of PC culture. I think it is better than what we had before, better than being able to say something casually sexist, casually racist. I think for all its faults, at which I do believe there are many, I am really happy that words like toxic masculinity exist now. They shine a bright and important light on human psychology. I think it's helpful in our daily lexicon. I think if I could give myself an insight into the way our culture has changed, I would be a better person for it earlier on.

I am sure everyone feels this, but the older you get, the wiser you get; the more you realize how ignorant you are. With wisdom comes the sense of the extent of your own ignorance. I wish I could've taught that to myself earlier on. I would've made some more well-informed decisions and some less-arrogant ones.

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Read: Jessy Lanza Is Still Trying to Look On The Bright Side

I would love to hear a little bit about each of your musical backstory; how you got into making music initially and how you two met.

Xayalith: My mom and dad immigrated to New Zealand, and I grew up listening to Lao music. And my dad was in a Lao community band, so I would often go and see him play. And I love singing, and really loved it at a young age. Music was something that I found myself finding so much joy in compared to anything else. I found ways to be a part of it; I was in the talent competition, choir, I would join a vocal group and drama classes so I could participate in the musicals. I was always searching for some ways to be a part of it.

I also took up guitar, I taught myself how to read music. I fell in love with alternative 90's rock music; PJ Harvey, Smashing Pumpkins. Then I enrolled into this musical college where I met Thom and Aaron, who was in the band, and we started making music together.

It was my first band ever, and it's been the only one. It was pretty unreal. Bu my search for wanting to pursue music I think I really followed my instincts and didn't give up on it. I think my instincts are pretty spot on most of the time. I was pretty tuned in to what I found joy in, and I felt it without knowing.

Powers: I mean, my musical history, is pretty standard to be honest, it is not super interesting. My dad played guitar, he is a musician. I think it runs in my family; we're very musical. I became a guitar player, a little metalhead at age 12. Little white suburban kid gets a guitar and you know, gets dreadlocks by 14. I was a typical—we would call them like a bogon down in New Zealand, which is like an Australian version of Bevis and Butthead. When I hit about my teenage years, about 15, I started getting into more alternative music.

And then I met Alisa, we were both still discovering alternative music culture. So the early Naked And Famous songs, they are somewhat a reflection of the things we were listening to at the time, the bands we were obsessing about. When we started making music we were still discovering ourselves as musicians and discovering what we liked and the kind of music culture that we wanted to participate in.

2006 is when Alisa and I started making music and going to gigs. We both worked at a record store and we were so involved in the music scene back then. Every gig that would come to Auckland, we would go to see. It is funny because I was just writing a list before of potential covers that I want to do. I was trying to put down songs that were influential around that time. There is a Bloc Party song, a Yeah Yeah Yeahs song, a Fyfe song. It makes me feel very nostalgic.

Related: 'It's Blitz!' At 10: How The Dancefloor Classic Marked A New Era For The Yeah Yeah Yeahs

With all the craziness going on in the world right now, what has helped each of you feel most grounded these days?

Xayalith: Getting enough sleep. I know it sounds really silly, but when I don't have enough sleep I don't feel like I can focus or perform to the best of my ability. But in times where I need to feel grounded I usually just exercise.

Powers: Alisa is a very grounded person.

Xayalith: Actually, you know what I do? I cook. That helps me feel grounded. I was on tour earlier in the year, so I hadn't been able to do that very much. But cooking and baking is something that helps me feel super grounded. Which is why I have gotten into making sourdough bread and I have things that I love to cook. Just the process of preparing everything, cooking everything, and the end product is going to be delicious. It always feels good to me.

Thom probably just plays video games.

Powers: I don't really have one thing that I do to stay grounded. Maybe reading. I think I am a grounded person by nature just by being very critical, by working on my critical thinking skills as a hobby. I am not a very smart person, I didn't go to university or get a degree in anything. Critical thinking is probably what keeps me grounded and realistic. Also, my partner keeps me very grounded when I get delusional, or worried about things.

I think when I am least grounded, I have a very unrealistic view, a very envious, jealous and comparative view because of the way music culture has shifted to this online content provider paradigm. Some days when I wake up and I feel negative, I just feel this immense pressure to be this content provider, which is something that does not come naturally to me, it's difficult. But some people, it just comes so naturally to them to put their unedited selves up on the internet. Some days I want to participate and it is really fun and I want to be a person who can get into TikTok. But other days I'm like "this is just empty narcissistic sh*t."

Xayalith: I feel like maybe it is just today. Today you're just not in the mood. Tomorrow you might feel differently. I think everybody feels the same way about social media. We fluctuate between wanting to engage in the conversation and then feeling like you can't keep up in the conversation and we don't want to be a part of it. Social media is this ongoing conversation and there are days that I don't want to participate in it, I can't be bothered. I feel like the mood you're in Thom is probably one that will fluctuate.

Powers: Yeah, you're right.

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As a non-Black ally, why is it important for you to speak out and join the Black community in solidarity?

Xayalith: I think it's essential for us to be vocal and to use our social platforms to help amplify Back voices that need to be heard. Learning about anti-racism is necessary to implement change on a global scale, and we're learning every day. It requires a long-term commitment. We want the Black community to know that we stand with them, and we're listening.

Powers: I don't feel it's about whether it's important to us, but whether it's morally and ethically necessary. I don't mean to sound grandiose, but we feel (happily) obliged to participate. America has been good to us—we've made this place our new home. I think we feel a growing patriotism, although it's clear that this is still a global problem. We're under no illusions about the limits of our reach or social clout, but we can pile-on to the conversation and direct people towards the organizations leading the change; places like blacklivesmatter.com and www.naacp.org.

Read: Black U.K. Music Executives Call For Bias Training, End Of "Urban Music" Term

In your opinion, how can the music community at large contribute to dismantling racism?

Xayalith: I think the music industry at large is homogeneous. Perhaps we can change that with outreach programs to Black communities. This may create more opportunities to work at record labels, music studios, music management, concerts and events—careers in music that would apply to young Black adults who might otherwise be denied those opportunities. Action speaks much louder than words, and right now, action is needed. 

Powers: Uneven business models continue to earn the music business millions of dollars while passing on only a small amount of that wealth to artists. For example, the royalty split on an average major-label deal is 82 percent to the label, 18 percent to the artist. The music industry has been benefiting from and exploiting Black artists for a long time. Adjusting these antiquated models would help all artists, but also result in a considerable redistribution of wealth to Black artists—a tide that would lift all boats.

The music industry is corporate America—its goal has always been to grow and maintain its wealth. It knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. For the music industry to change, it needs companies (as well as individuals) to prioritize art, culture, social equality and redistributing wealth, over unbridled capitalism.

I don't think we should underestimate the power of political correctness, i.e., the recent jettisoning of the term "Urban." I'm old enough now to see what a difference political correctness can make. There are plenty of words and ideas that can no longer be approached or used with casualness, which is a great thing.

Jayda G Talks New EP, Promoting Diversity In Dance Music & Sharing Joy

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

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Quarantine Diaries: Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward quarantine-diaries-rosehardt-playing-his-new-piano-lauren-ruth-ward-dancing-emo-music

Quarantine Diaries: Rosehardt Is Playing His New Piano & Lauren Ruth Ward Is Dancing To Emo Music

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As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rock the music industry, GRAMMY.com reached out to musicians to see how they were spending their days off the road
GRAMMYs
Nov 19, 2020 - 1:08 pm

As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rock the music industry, GRAMMY.com reached out to a few musicians to see how they were spending their days indoors. Today, we have a special bi-costal edition, with Brooklyn-based Rosehardt and Los Angeles-based Lauren Ruth Ward, two artists featured in Dr. Martens Presents: Music & Film Series, sharing their Quarantine Diaries.

Rosehardt & Lauren Ruth Ward

Rosehardt, Brooklyn

[8:45 a.m.] On occasion, I'll wake up and my hair will be shampoo commercial voluminous. I don't try and explain it, I just show gratitude by continuing to care for it like my mama taught me.

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[9:30 a.m.] We made cold-seared salmon last night. Hella tasty. I put the leftovers into an omelet. Also hella tasty. Additionally, if one can have toast with jam with breakfast, and one can also have toast with peanut butter with breakfast, then logically one can have a PB&J with breakfast. Don't @ me.

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[12 p.m.] Today was a very special day.

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[12:05 p.m.] A very, very special day.

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[12:45 p.m.] Not only did the American people make the right choice at the voting booths, but I became the proud owner of this gorgeous piano. It was given to me by the sweetest woman from Craigslist (!!!).

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[1 p.m.] Seriously, if you want a piano and have room, peruse the free section on CL, you'd be surprised. I was so tremendously fortunate to not only find this piano in amazing shape, but I couldn't have asked for a better CL experience. Her only stipulation was that it went to someone who would put it to use and das me. Thank you, Julia from Craigslist.

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[1:30 p.m.] This is my cat Ishmael. I don't usually let him in the studio but I was feeling gracious and he was meowing incessantly.

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[4:45 p.m.] This is Alex, the mysterious piano tuner my roommate recommended who not only does a great job tuning, but always obliges when asked to play a little when he's finished. I really wish you could hear this photo.

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[5 p.m.] I plunked around on the beauty for a minute and now it's loaf time. Ish loves loaf time. We all love loaf time.

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Lauren Ruth Ward, Los Angeles

[8 a.m.] Wake up and caffeinate. We have an espresso machine with a milk steamer, the whole shebang.

[8:15 a.m.] Check in. Look at my calendar and make sure my schedule is realistic. My friend Emma and I call ourselves The Over-Committers Committee (lol). I drink my coffee on my porch, sometimes journal and send out confirmation texts to hair clients and anyone I have plans with.

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[8:30 a.m.] I pull myself away from my phone—I have a timer on my social apps to keep me from mindlessly scrolling! Depending on the day, I will do Patreon duties, Pullstring Vintage work or merch fulfillment. All of these are truly exciting and inspiring.

On Patreon, I post behind-the-scenes videos, and photos on my private Instagram. I also chat with fans about their week and if they relate to what I've shared. This kind of connection with them has kept me sane. I also get to "see" two of my Patron tiers monthly on a Zoom hang. I also spend this time prepping monthly mail-out incentives.

Pullstring Vintage is my new baby! After a buying trip, I wash all the items. Some need extra love—bleaching, tie-dying, studding or button, hem or zipper repair. Then, I take photos of all garments with my friend Zoë. Prior to posting, I take measurement photos and create descriptions for each garment. I then post and repost and chat with my sweet vintage-loving supporters. On drop days, I stay tethered to my assistant, Ivy, who takes care of sales via DM. Mondays and Fridays are post office days. I put thank you letters and pressed flowers go into every package (I love this part). We then DM everyone their tracking number along with another thank you.

Merch fulfillment! I sell 14 different items on Bandcamp. They have slightly different packaging processes but everything gets autographed, thank you carded and, you guessed it, pressed flowers from my garden.

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[12 p.m.] After tapping in and out of the above worlds, it's usually lunchtime. I'll have a little something and then exercise! I love walking a couple miles while listening to podcasts (Brené Brown) or audiobooks (currently spinning the autobiography of Malcolm X). Or, if I have less time, I'll turn the heat up in my living room and freestyle yoga with dance and ab work integrated. I always do this to screamo/pop rock bands' albums, something I listened to in high school. Yesterday was Decadence by Head Automatica—totally holds up. If I have even less time, I'll freestyle dance in my front yard for three to four songs—quick and life-changing.

On other days, this is prime haircut time. I prefer to cut in the hours of 11 a.m. to 5 p.m.

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[3:30 p.m.] As I mentioned, on Mondays and Fridays I go to the post office (where I am helped by either Ernie, Adora or Stanley). Other days I'll have a golden light, front yard hang with a friend.

[5 p.m.] I kiss my dog for the seventieth time today.

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[6 p.m.] Pandemic life: make dinner, sometimes simple, sometimes elaborate. I prep snacks and juice my Imperfect Foods produce for the week. Then I hang/watch TV/read/after-dinner walk with my partner. Sometimes we'll have a guest or two over for a drink and a porch hang. Living the dream!

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Days where I have no clients and no pending orders, I either aimlessly craft or I write. Song messages come to me unplanned—this is my way of planning those unplanned creative spurts. I work on songs alone and sometimes with bandmates. The day will go as follows: coffee, podcast while I walk, then get together with either Eduardo for LRW band, Chris for Aging Actress or Andrew for Heaven Electric.

These days are few and usually clumped together. Because I released an album in March and because the music industry has slowed down immensely, I've been treating writing less militantly and been allowing myself to explore other passions.

GRAMMYs

De'Wayne Talks "Top Gun," Jimi Hendrix & Radiohead, Finding Himself In L.A.

Grimes

Grimes

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Grimes' Non-Violent Utopia

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Seven months after releasing the far-reaching 'Miss Anthropocene,' the pop experimentalist talks to GRAMMY.com about how her 2020 is going, the frustrating paradoxes of pregnancy and motherhood, humane technology and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 29, 2020 - 9:07 am

There is no current artist quite like Grimes. From making a science fiction-inspired album (2010's Geidi Primes) in her Montreal bedroom to becoming an alt-pop favorite with 2012's Visions (also made in said sleeping quarters) to becoming celeb gossip fodder because of her famous CEO boyfriend, she has always remained 100 percent herself. On each of her five albums, she's stayed true to her D.I.Y. and experimental ethos—writing, singing, producing and engineering all the music herself and pushing creative boundaries every time, bringing us further into her enticing, otherworldly dimension. She also created each trippy album cover and directed every wild music video, collaborating with her brother Mac Boucher on the more recent visuals.

Back on Feb. 21, before COVID-19 shut the world down, before the killing of George Floyd by police sparked Black Lives Matter protests across the globe, Grimes (a.k.a. Claire Boucher, a.k.a. just "c") released the follow-up to 2015's Art Angels, the fittingly futurist, dystopian Miss Anthropocene. Recently, we caught up with the "IDORU" singer to talk about the album, the chaos of 2020 and motherhood. She also gets real about her best friend and frequent collaborator HANA, Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion's "WAP" and her interest in more humane technology.

So how have you been doing during quarantine, especially as a new parent?

It started really shitty because one of my best friends actually passed away on the first day of quarantine. And then I had to go right into having a baby. She passed away in a pregnancy-related issue so it was four months of not good, the least productive I've ever been. It was basically terrible until about a month ago. But yeah, I feel like a lot of people are on this path. I mean, granted, the whole is a shitshow and terrible and I'm really worried about everybody. And that's the other thing: I feel like it's getting worse and worse on the outside, so I don't know. Wait, maybe I'm getting too dark. Positive. Anyway.

No, you're fine. You can be real.

I have PTSD from being terrible in interviews. So please excuse me for constantly second-guessing myself. But yeah, I'm not really sure what to do, especially with being Canadian, because I feel I should have a vote in your election and I can't even say much about it. I didn't realize I'm not even allowed to donate to candidates and stuff. So it's a whole thing where I feel weirdly helpless about it. I feel American in my vibe and energy, and all my friends and family are American. But yeah, it's a weird situation. There is actually a lot of stuff to do, it's just not directly political stuff.

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It's an interesting point you made, that things seem like they keep getting worse. I think it gets to place where we have to focus in on ourselves because at the end of the day, some shit's always going to be crazy. When we're able to be like, "Well, what can I do to take care of myself?" or, "What can I do to deal with what's feeling crazy for me?" it makes it seem more manageable. I'm sure that having another human to take care of adds a different layer to that.

Another human kind of helps. Although I disagree that it's unfixable or whatever. But when I look at it, another human is nice because it's very hard to go on social media when there's a baby. It's just hard. When are you going to do it? And then when you're not dealing with the baby, you're like, "Okay, I've got to do something actually useful." The baby caused me to not be on social media and I am very grateful for that.

Regarding society though, which I feel like the craziness of the moment is that the internet is forcing us to become a single unit. I was reading this thing about how the internet forcing us to become a single unit is basically forcing everyone to acknowledge everyone else's suffering at the same time. And even though it sucks so much, I feel like this is the only way to actually fix human suffering. And I also feel like we're at this weird junction in society where we're getting to a place where we can technologically have the ability to destroy civilization and destroy humanity—crazy. But we also have the ability to, theoretically, fix humanity. Not 100 percent solve suffering, and I don't know if we even want that. But I do think it's probably possible to an extent to end violence and extreme inequality.

And so, I feel like it just f***ing hurts, because we're in this moment where it's no longer possible to ignore those things. If you want to engage with society, you have to engage with suffering. And so, obviously, I feel like in the short term, this is super shitty. And especially anyone who has mental illness or depression or is predisposed to that at all, is having an extra hard time. This is existentially painful.

But at the same time, [maybe we need that] in order to get into, I don't want to say a utopian, but a future where we can just achieve and not be fixing. Right now, because of our own f***-ups, we're still just having to Band-Aid instead of solving physics and colonizing space and solving medical stuff. Instead, we're just still fixing the broken things.

Anyway, I feel like the thing that sucks is that we're becoming a single psychological entity. But that is possibly the thing that can save us, because if we're one thing, people are selfish and people want to fix themselves. And I am seeing people want to fix the world more than I've ever seen. It's what everyone's talking about and what everyone's focused on. So maybe that's a good thing? Sorry that was so long.

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I feel that. The fact that people have to pay attention is big. Also, people need to feel like there's something that they can do. Obviously, not everyone that lives here can vote, but it is something that people are mobilizing around. I haven't seen people this excited for an election other than for Obama in 2008. So that's definitely something.

The other thing I keep seeing helplessness. But it's like, man, we're talking through the internet through space and time. And if we wanted to, we could video chat. We can kind of accomplish whatever we want. It seems normal, because we're stuck in this world. But that's all really new shit. And that's like magic. I feel like we can frigging solve things.

The themes and aesthetic of Miss Anthropocene feel so reflective of the chaos of 2020, it's wild that you released it in February. Do you feel like the album and its themes offer any messages of how we can prevent the demise of humanity?

I was trying to be provocative at the time I made the album. Because I made it a lot more in 2018, 2019. When I started making it, I was still like, "Why don't we care about the environment?" And in time since I made it and released it, the world totally changed. And even though I'm really proud of it and I think it's great, I feel like it is not the time to be provocative and trollish. That ended kind of almost before the album came out. It feels insensitive now.

I still actually like it. When I think about the anthropomorphic goddess of climate change and the anthropomorphic goddess of addiction, those things are compelling to me. I even kind of get anxiety talking about it. To myself, I feel like I made something effective, but I get why people found it to be kind of cruel now. But that's art. It goes back and forth.

Sauron sucks and gives me anxiety too, but I don't think Lord of the Rings was problematic, but some people might say it is. I don't know. I'm talking in circles again. Maybe that's the point. [Laughs.] They should not let me do interviews. I'm really bad at interviews.

Sometimes I feel like the most awkward interviewer. I'll ask a question and I'll giggle.

The giggling is good. When people are monotone and so bored with you, you're just like, "Oh, god. I'm sorry I'm keeping you from going home."

Also if it's more of a normal interviewer thing, you're kind of repeating the same thing. You feel like kind of like a phony. I'm always like, "Uh-oh. This question again." And then I'm like, "Oh, no. If any fans see this, they're going to know I answered this the exact same way. I'm such a fraud." You want to give a genuine answer, but it becomes disingenuous just by being forced to answer the same question again and again. It's a trap no matter what.

"Violence" is your only song you didn't produce yourself.  What was it like working with i_o on it, and what did it feel like to let go of that specific element of creative control?

I mean, frankly, people need to realize sometimes collaborating is really hard. But when it's easy, it is incredible. There are no drugs that are like sitting in a room with someone when you're on the same page creatively. And it's your art. I've always been like, "Oh, the art high, the art high." When you make something good and the night after, you close the computer and you're like, "I made a good thing," it's literally the best feeling in the world. And when you're working with someone else, it feels like it's double.

I'm very conflicted right now, because for political reasons and reasons of self-worth, I want to make stuff on my own. But I'm really vibing creating with other people now. With i_o, he sent me stuff and I just wrote a vocal over it. By the way, "Violence" only took about an hour to make. I was like, "Oh my god. Why am I spending tons of hours making songs when it should really just take an hour?"

"Violence" sort of broke the barrier, because I had done so little collaboration before that. Well, "We Appreciate Power" was actually very fun. It was with my best friend [HANA], so it was much easier. It was almost like having a sleepover and writing it. It was not like a work situation.

That's super cool. I'm always really interested in collaboration and the process of it because, like you said, sometimes it's easier than others.

I feel like I'm starting again, because I've always made music by myself and I feel like 19 again. It feels like the first time I first started making music all over again. The human brain is a very amazing thing. And when you can find a brain that works with yours, it's better than any tool. It's also very hard to find. Maybe that's some argument for humans getting along.

When "We Appreciate Power" came out [in November 2018], I had it on repeat an embarrassing amount. When I learned what it was about, I'm like, "Oh, wow. This AI propaganda totally would work."

Here's the funny thing. It is now this so less-controversial "WAP," which I find so funny. When we made "We Appreciate Power," I was like "WAP" is such a random title. No one will ever make a song title like this. And this will definitely own this title forever. And then Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion came out with their "WAP" And I'm like, "Damn, they actually defeated us with making the more controversial song with this absurd title." Our "WAP" has been owned.

Related: Cardi B And Megan Thee Stallion Deliver A Juicy Collaboration With "WAP"

What did you think about the backlash that Cardi and Megan got for literally singing about their p*ssies, when other people sing about p*ssies all the time?

I actually didn't notice the backlash for about a week because, as I said, I haven't been online. So, I didn't watch the music video and I didn't even know the title. I thought it was "Wet and Gushy," or whatever. I had no idea what was going on. And then, my manager said something later and I was like, "What? Cardi B's in trouble for the song?" And [when I learned about it], I was like, "Oh, wow. This is kind of crazy." I'm still surprised it was so controversial, but then that just proves that I'm in sort of in a bubble, I guess.

I've been thinking about this in general, going through being pregnant, no one understands what's going on at all. And you're super unprepared for it. Sex ed is not comprehensive enough at all. And our society does really need to work on—I feel like everyone's way overusing the word "normalized"—normalizing [laughs] women's bodies because it's a huge problem.

"I'm a producer. My war zone is mostly a men's war zone. I get in the ring with the boys. And that seems easy compared to having a baby. I was shocked by how hard it was. I thought I was so tough."

It's so true. I feel like that is such like a valid parallel to the fact that women singing about their body parts is still found offensive. And I haven't had a child or been pregnant, but I've heard conversations around women feeling like they can't talk about the difficulties of being a mother or being pregnant. It's supposed to be like, "Pregnancy is beautiful!" I'm sure it's both, but I wish there more spaces for these conversations.

Yeah. I'll say this. I'm a producer. My war zone is mostly a men's war zone. I get in the ring with the boys. And that seems easy compared to having a baby. I was shocked by how hard it was. I thought I was so tough. It's almost the indignity of it and all the things that go along with it and just being so volatile. There were numerous meetings where I would puke. I was puking all the time. It was really humiliating.

And people are like, "Oh, yeah, morning sickness, well it's like 12 weeks, three months." If you were vomiting constantly for three months in any other kind of illness, it would be really serious. But it's not even considered. It's like, "Oh, yeah. Whatever. It's only a couple of months of puking many times a day." It's like, whoa. That's not even the hard part. That's the beginning. And then you kind of feel like a teenager. Teenagers are grumpy and crazy because of their hormones. Pregnant women are literally going through the same thing but they're supposed to act normal and stuff.

And then f***ing having the actual baby—if I didn't have nannies, babies are literally 24 hours. Being a stay-at-home mom with no help, or especially a single mom, is significantly harder. It's extreme sleep deprivation. As a society, it's possibly the hardest job, and it's not even a paid job. We devalue it and we expect it to be free labor. And the fact that we expect to be free labor gets women into situations where they have no financial freedom and if it's abusive or something they're just stuck.

I mean, other countries at least offer several months of paid maternity leave, and in Sweden [and many other countries] both parents get leave. The U.S. is the only—I hate this word—"developed" country that doesn't have mandatory maternity leave. It totally is devaluing, like you said, the actual labor and time that goes into it.

Yeah. I mean, I guess that's a very capitalistic viewpoint. So people could take issue with that. But I just feel like it's very weird that the hardest job I'm doing is free labor. Before I had my baby, I was always like, "Oh, I don't want to be a stay-at-home mom." And I was sort of rolling my eyes. And I had this bad vibe for stay-at-home moms. I was definitely internalizing misogyny. And now I'm like, "Man, I was such a f*** up. I can't believe no one ever corrected me on that f***ing shitty line of thinking." Being a stay-at-home mom is quite hard, I would say. Maybe it gets easier when they get older.

Long story short, "WAP" is productive towards society. Let's get more used to addressing anatomy.

How would you describe your creative relationship and friendship with HANA?

Oh, she'll be so mad you called her "Hannah." [Laughs.] It's the bane of her existence. I just feel so bad that she's trapped in this nightmare where everyone calls her Hannah and her real name is HANA. I thought an A that's ah is an imperial A, and I was telling people that for years. It turns out that was from a dream and that's not a real terminology. But it sounds real. So, it's HANA with an imperial A. And I'm coining that term, because it sounds right.

Anyway, she's great. I feel like HANA taught me about feminine energy or something. I did not have a lot of girlfriends previous to her. And going on tour with someone is kind of like being married to them. We toured for like three years or something.

HANA's underrated. Check out her latest release, HANADRIEL. It's great, and she produced on Twitch, which I thought was a really cool idea. She livestreamed her album creation on Twitch, which I would not be able to do that. And I think people were able to comment as well and stuff.

What's it like working with your brother Mac? Because you've worked together on pretty much all of your music videos, correct?

To an extent, more or less. The early stuff I did more on my own. I feel like I started working with him because he's probably the best working partner I've ever had. The one thing I think we would say is, don't judge the Miss Anthropocene music videos, because I was pregnant during them. The reason they're less crazy is because I couldn't be throwing my body around for 16 hours straight when I was super pregnant. So we feel slightly self-conscious. Please do not judge either of us.

I'm not talking shit, but it's just they're obviously single scene. They're just very, very simple comparatively to what we normally do. And that's just because what we normally do is not good for your body. Also, it's been Mac and I this whole time and it's just not big budget. So usually, we literally take the whole workload on ourselves. We color. We edit. We do post-production. Literally, when it's animation or something, it's like me and Mac literally doing it ourselves. I mean, we're excited to get to the next phase too though, because ideally, we can access bigger budgets in the future. And Mac's also been learning how to do CGI literally on his own. He probably never talks about this though. He's kind of like a private dude and doesn't want to be too discussed.

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I really like the "Violence" music video. It feels sort of like the opening credits from a movie where you're getting the vibe of it and wondering who the characters are. It definitely drew me in.

I feel like even though that video is simple, it's like one of the best performances I've ever done in a weird way. I mean, the thing with "Violence" is we were like, "F*** hiring random people. We're just going to hire our friends." The stylists and dancers were friends. My brother's girlfriend is one of the dancers. HANA's there [as the "nude corpse"]. Another friend of mine was helping with the styling and ideas. I'd rather sacrifice some physical proficiencies for an incredibly good vibe on set, because performance-wise it's like you're in front of a bunch of random people you don't know who are bored, versus being with all your friends, cheering and doing stuff. It makes a huge difference. Our roommate did the hair. And we wore masks, which seemed weird that was before the pandemic.

But I thought really, what would modern gods look like? All religion is referencing pre-technological existence. And if you just go by logic, if intelligent design is real, which is not out of the question, if we're either in a simulation or if there are gods in any capacity, they have technology. You know what I mean? There's a law [from scientist/science fiction author Arthur C. Clarke] that says, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And my inverse law is any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology. Let's say, we're in a Matrix situation, it's possible that everything condescends this extremely advanced technology. I mean, it kind of is biological technology if you just go on baseline level that life spontaneously occurred and the Big Bang happened.

But man, I just love the idea of there being teenage gods with cell phones who are bitchy. And this gods isplastic and she just looks amazing and she's got this crazy style and she's got this CGI all around her. Just why isn't there more kind of pursuance of this sort of idea?

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Can you talk a little bit about your well, now, virtual art exhibit that you were planning with Michele Maccarone?

Most of the art exhibit has to be real. The thing that's online is just kind of my random art. I don't want to downplay it, it's stuff we've been making. But we have the whole installation and everything that took a really long time. We created these AI meditations where we send a bunch of meditative texts to this generative AI. If you feed an AI stuff, it starts making things, so it was making these meditations for us. Then we started making crazy meditations. We started feeding it dialogues from video games, for video game addiction meditations. And we fed it Kim Kardashian's Instagram feed, and it was making this weird kind of corporate poetry that was amazing. That kind of has to be experienced in real life. So the art installation is kind of in limbo until COVID is over, I suppose. But it's these AI meditations. I'm really interested in spiritual technology.

Okay, yeah, one thing I really want to talk about, coming back to the state of society and civilization and mental health right now. I'm really getting into pursuing humane technology. Why is technology so inhumane? Technology has not factored in human conditions, like human emotions, like the way our biology works, our cortisol, adrenaline and all this stuff. It's almost like a drug. It's sort of abusing our system to just make us addicted.

You should look up the Center for Humane Technology [who recently released the film Social Dilemma on Netflix]. There's all these charities and philosophies and stuff that are starting to pop up around making technology safer for the human brain, and trying to find ways to make it better for us, or whatever. The AI meditations sort of led me into that realm of philosophy. The meditations are kind of scary. They're not meditative, which is part of what's so interesting about them. We need to stop and consider how it's writing all this content that is beautiful and amazing but also scary and aggressive. Even though it's been fed all this information about meditation, it's unable to internalize what meditation is.

As a culture, we need to start getting more used to and more aware of technology safety. And by safety, I don't just mean, are you going to overdose and die? But are you giving yourself a serious mental condition? Are you getting infused with Nazi ideas? Are you growing to hate your neighbor? How do we stop those tendencies? I mean, fight-or-flight response is a powerful response. And most technology right now is giving us heroin and pulling us into darkness.

"I feel like we're at a crossroads right now where at least it might be possible to eliminate physical violence from our species. That's what enlightenment kind of entails."

What does a Grimes utopia look like?

Do know the writer Iain Banks? He's this obscure writer, for some reason. His books are kind of hard to read I guess, maybe they're just too dense. He wrote these books called the "Culture" series. And there's this book specifically, Surface Detail. I would argue that it's not a utopia, but it's edging towards a utopia. AI is this God, and saying conscious beings are existing with technology in a way that seems like there's mega structures in space for when there are no planets. It's like consciousness has been preserved and it is not in a dark and evil way.

When you look in the universe, there might not be any other consciousness, we might be the only thinking creatures. And right now, consciousness is under threat, obviously. Civilization is under threat. I mean, the ideal goal, I think about 10,000 years from now, [is that] consciousness is preserved and existence for those beings is happy. And it's not painless, because that seems like it could lead us through just nothingness. But overall, there's not massive suffering happening.

I feel like that involves a massive sort of philosophical and cultural overhaul. I'm not sure what that looks like. But obviously, reducing unnecessary violence. Physical violence should be unnecessary. I feel like we're at a crossroads right now where at least it might be possible to eliminate physical violence from our species. That's what enlightenment kind of entails. We get to a position where every child is educated in such a way where if they have violent tendencies, there's the ability to overcome those things and there's support systems get to a place where we can reduce that as much as possible.

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And that's kind of the discussion of this moment in some ways right now. I feel like physical violence also includes not having enough food or not having adequate shelter and stuff. If we can get to a place where maybe there's still competition in a mental way—I haven't thought this through enough. But I feel like—I hope—utopia is achievable. I think a non-violent society is possibly achievable.

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Chicano Batman

Chicano Batman

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Chicano Batman Talk Creating Visibility For 'Invisible People,' Representation Of Latinos In Media & Repping Los Angeles

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The beloved L.A. psych/soul rock band dive deep into their powerful, danceable fourth studio album, 'Invisible People,' identity, racism and what the West Coast city means to them
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 4, 2020 - 12:25 pm

There is real power in music that gets you dancing, feeling joy and thinking about critical human issues. That is exactly what Chicano Batman's music does—drawing you in with their groovy bass lines, warm and soulful vocals and all-around funky, sun-soaked instrumentation and aesthetic. With their fourth studio album, Invisible People, released May 1 on ATO Reords, they double-down on the funkiness and deliver their most powerful, rhythmic project yet.

Founded in 2008 in Los Angeles, the four-piece embodies the true beauty, creativity and diversity of the city they call home. Since the release of their self-titled debut album in 2010, the band has brought their infectious energy and vibrancy to countless shows and festivals through Southern California, the U.S. and abroad, with a (typically) active tour schedule.

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With their 2020 tour with Le Butcherettes put on hold until 2021, the group has stayed busy with virtual appearances on "The Late Show With Stephen Colbert," NPR's Tiny Desk, KEXP and more. They've also stayed engaged with their community despite quarantine, offering youth music workshop livestreams with the Young Musicians Foundation and a delicious fundraising taco at L.A.'s HomeState.

In conversation with GRAMMY.com, Bardo Martinez (lead vocals, keyboard and guitar), Carlos Arévalo (guitar), Gabriel Villa (drums) and Eduardo Arenas (bass) dive deep into the creative process and meaning behind their latest album. They get real about identity, racism and representation, and the marinization they have experienced as Latinos in the indie-rock space.

You guys dropped the fourth Chicano Batman album, Invisible People, just back in May. What was the creative process like on this album? How long were you guys working on it?

Villa: A few years?

Arévalo: [Laughs.] A few years. Yes. That's it.

Villa: A few years. Next question. [Everyone laughs.]

Arévalo: Maybe 14 months.

Villa: We had to go on tour, so, we had to stop a little bit. We had writing sessions, but we basically started in 2018.

Arenas: In 2018, we talked about different ideas we wanted to introduce to the new record, and we did a lot of demos. At the end we chose 12 songs. Everybody kicked in on this one and helped develop it, where in the past the Bardo wrote the majority of the songs. This time Carlos was kicking in stuff, Bardo was kicking in stuff. I would join up forces with them and throw in stuff. There were all these different combinations of things that happened that we had not explored in the past.

Martinez: Recording was a big part of it, us using our home studios to record stuff and vibe that way.

Villa: Carlos, talk a little bit about that moment where you came into rehearsal and you were like, "Guys, I know we have to do this album, but wait listen!" [Everyone laughs.]

Arévalo: I had my own little idea of what I thought the record should be in terms of a theme or a direction. That's something I would keep to myself on the past records and then just have my own personal goals for my instrumentation. But this time I shared it aloud to the group. That's choppy waters you can get into because you're asking a drummer to play drums a certain way or a singer to sing a certain way. Well, it's more recommending or showing examples of like, "Hey, could we try it this way this time and see how that goes?" That was a vulnerable place to be. But I've known these guys for so many years, it was time for me to be real with them and hope for the best.

They were receptive, everybody needed a little bit of time at first to just take it in. Once we started trying out these ideas, everybody else started bringing in other stuff they'd been wanting to try before, but maybe never thought this was the project to do that. So, I got the juices flowing creatively for everyone. It was cool.

Martinez: Yeah, this record was a lot of push and pull, as it's always been with our music. It's four dudes in a band, so everybody's pushing for whatever ideas they had in their head. I mean, Carlos was pretty straight forward. He was like, "Well, we should make something we could dance to, danceable music." It was a great idea. It brought us into the late '70s and '80s in terms of aesthetics, in terms of sound—it was new territory for me. It was a lot of fun. It's a dope realm that we eventually got to.

Villa: It was definitely fun to create. The whole process was just fun, fun, fun, and a lot of communication. We learned a lot. We're always inspired and happy to be working with the team so it really, really paid off. You can hear it in the music. If you compare the Chicano Batman discography, you really hear that this album is so different from the rest. It definitely has that element of dancing—for the first time we're doing a lot of 16-notes. [Mimics fast drum beat.]

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Carlos, that idea you came in with, was it "dancing" music or something else?

Arévalo: I had started a little DJ night as an excuse to play records that I was collecting on the road with being on tour—you hit up shops in Michigan and you find amazing 45s that are just so overpriced in L.A. or that you can't even find them. I was playing once a month at bars and exploring what music has that universal appeal to people, that makes them want to get up and move or sing along. It's a cool way to experience music when you have the sound system at your behest. I was controlling the PA and it's bumping, I could control the bass. I could see what was going on from the mixer. That inspired me.

There's so many 45s that I love. I would play stuff like Talking Heads' "Naive Melody," Tom Tom Club. I'd play Prince's "Erotic City," that '80s music that had amazing songwriting appeal, but simultaneously were hit records. I feel that doesn't go hand-in-hand all the time anymore. Now, you have writers that get together to make a song sound exactly like this other song so it can be a hit and make money. It's about capitalism and it's about getting that publishing. Back then, it was more so you can make an art piece that was also danceable. It was really appealing and inspirational to me.

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When did you finish the album? Since you were working on it on and off, was there a period of time where you huddled up and finished all of it?

Arévalo: Yeah, so we started writing the record, like they said, in January 2018. And then we demoed it when we could and we started amassing demos amongst all of us. We had little sessions in between touring and we finally started recording the album in February 2019 at Barefoot Recording, which used to be called Crystal Industries. It's where Stevie Wonder recorded one of his epic '70s trilogy albums, Songs in the Key of Life, those amazing records where he found his synthesizer voice. So many hit records were made there. Sly Stone worked out of there and George Clinton. So, we made Invisible People there for two weeks and then Bardo flew to New York for another two weeks to do vocals and some overdubs. Then we had to wait a year to put it out.

Martinez: Well, it got mixed and we put all the music together. Leon Michels produced it. He definitely put his hand in the sound of it. He's an amazing producer [he's also worked with Lee Fields, Aloe Blacc, The Carters and others] and has an amazing hip-hop sensibility. He knows how to make everything knock. He definitely added some amazing vibes, and then he passed it over to [five-time GRAMMY winner] Shawn Everett who mixed it. So, that was the whole next process of, "okay, well he got the music" and we were in the dark for a week or month or so.

Once we received it, I'm telling you, for me, the summer of 2019 was lit, 'cause it was just blazing, f****ing listening, bumping that in my car. I had just moved into this house that I live in now. It was amazing. Imagine, you move into a new house and you're playing a new record. I had my friends over and it was amazing. It was perfect.

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Read: Aluna On New Album 'Renaissance' & Making Dance Music Inclusive Again

The title track, "Invisible People" is really powerful and very pertinent to this moment we're in right now—calling out racism. Can you speak to the message behind this song and how you feel that it informs the rest of the album?

Marinez: We came up with a thesis statement, which was the title itself. Carlos was like, "How about we write a song about how the marginalization of Latinos?" "Invisible People"—for example, not being noticed in the indie music world or being on tour and feeling marginalized just entering spaces like the liquor store in Tennessee. That was one piece of it.

I started tackling different pieces in different verses, and I only have three verses. I wanted to make sure that whatever I was saying was going to be very strong and very poignant, straight to the point. I didn't have time to cut corners, so I was going to be direct with it. I wanted it to be as strong as possible because the music was set up that like that. We went into the studio and that song was [originally] a little bit faster and Leon suggested we slow it down. The instrumentation is super sparse. The beat is heavy, the bass drops on the kick in the perfect place. The music is there for the vocal to just shoot out.

I approached every verse as a different thing. My first line is, "Invisible people, we're tired of living in the dark. Everyone is trying to tear us apart." So, it's obviously pointing at some type of marginalization. It's not necessarily specific. The second line—"smoke a spliff so I could feel now"— I don't even smoke spliffs by the way, I like joints, but it was a homage to maybe Bob Marley or something I knew a lot of people were going to relate to. Something edgy, something cool. The next verse is about race, "The truth is we're all the same. The concept of race was implanted in your brain." I definitely wanted to call that out, race as a construct pretty much.

Also, just to challenge all of that because as a band, as, we're Chicano Batman. We decided to use this name, which has its own meanings as a Chicano, as an identity. I don't know if that's problematic, but it's going to challenge norms within our own community, and also in the superstructure status quo. That's the more obvious knot.

Also, anybody could be invisible in society. It wasn't "Just Latinos are invisible or just people of color." The privilege that White people have in this country is not good for them. When they walk onto the street, into the supermarket, there's a lot of psychological weight to all that history, to alter that reality which is based upon history, decades and centuries of oppression, that White people really have to deal with as well. Everybody, regardless of who you are, if you're living in a city, if you're living in society, you're a part of it. You're complicit in it. You're subjugated by it. People don't necessarily talk about it like that on Instagram. People on Instagram are just pointing fingers at each other. So, that's really not the goal of it. The goal is to be like, "Yo, the truth is we're all in this together." It's not some "We Are The World" shit. It's also, "This record is fire, we're spinning the world around you. We got this record, we're ready to tour and do it big." It's all those things wrapped into one.

Arenas: Piggybacking off what Bardo said about Instagram, they're probably not saying that on Instagram because White cops are too busy killing Black people and shooting them in the back. That's a reality that White privilege has led to, it's not only capitalism, but genocide. That's also what we have to live with today. Not only with religion, but with the way communities are divided, with the way we think, with our mental health as a people, with our communities and the disinvestment in them and the lack of education and resources. This is all very implicit and designed to be this way, to lack people of color of the resources while the few good resources go to the top. That's the system that we've been living under here in the United States for a very, very, very long time.

I think for me, "Invisible People" has a very open open-ended meaning, it's a very big concept, and I think it can definitely be understood differently in 10 years, in 30 more years, et cetera. But right now, to me, it speaks so much about the murder of innocent people, invisible people, who are our family members, our voices, our activists. They're actors of change in our society, the heroes. So, to me, we need to put some extra highlight on that at this moment right now.

Arévalo: For me, the idea for the song was explicitly about people of color and the struggle we've endured. I don't know how many bands GRAMMY.com has interviewed where they get pulled over by border patrol in Florida for driving in a tour van, but that's our experience. I don't know how many indie rock bands have gone through that. Dealing with stuff like that was in my mind when bringing up the idea of the song, and the lack of representation we see of Latinos in the media, you don't see us with parts of substance in movies or TV shows. It's always cliched, and it makes me sick, because we're multi-dimensional. We are more than caricatures.

So, that was part of the idea. Also, just tongue-in-cheek like, "Do you see us now? Here we are, this is our record. Will you acknowledge us yet?" Because there has been a hump of, people keep saying, "Chicano Batman is breaking through with this record, this rising band." And every time we put out a record, we're always this new band that's coming out of nowhere. So, it's a critique on that and how the status quo in the media views us.

Watch: How Jhené Aiko's 'CHILOMBO' Shows Her Most Authentic Self & Is Helping Heal The World | Up Close & Personal

You've said "Color my life," which opens the album, is about experiencing nature versus being stuck in the city. Was there a specific experience, feeling or place that inspired this song?

Martinez: That's the first time somebody asked me where, what's the location. I appreciate the question. Honestly, it's Oakland. I lived in Oakland for a year and a half. That was the first thought, literally what I was thinking about when I was writing those verses. I had some lyrics that were taken out too. During the chorus, "You've got to color my life..." I had something about birds. Anyways, Oakland was definitely the place.

Do you feel now when you perform "Color my life" now, especially in a virtual setting like on the NPR's Tiny Desk, do you feel it has taken on new meaning?

Martinez: I'll be honest, it's hard for me to connect with the virtual stuff. It's difficult. I'm a little numbed by the whole virtual reality experience. But what's the new meaning? I just went to the forest recently, to Mammoth for four days with my family. I needed to do that. Honestly, it's been a long time since I've actually gone camping or anything that because of doing the music thing and touring. This pandemic has given me the opportunity to do some of that. I want to do it more often because it's the most freeing thing, just to be out in nature, it's fantastic.

"L.A. is what I carry with me all the time... It's what I try to represent in my music, at least respective to the instrument that I play and the swagger I input and the way I want people to move. We want them to feel that this is the way L.A. moves you, when we're in Germany, Brazil or France. It doesn't matter where, it's rooted in L.A. and L.A. is international because our roots are deep." -Eduardo Arenas

As a Los Angeles band, what does the city mean to all of you?

Arévalo: It's a forever home for me. My dad immigrated from El Salvador and lived in an apartment complex in Hollywood and went to Hollywood High, which I can't even imagine—what a dichotomy that must have been. My mom is third generation Mexican-American, so her family's been here since the '20s and they all have roots and stories that come from L.A. It's always been a big part of who I am and where I come from. I still have family that lives out there and also family that lives in L.A. It's an important part of my identity.

Villa: For me, L.A. feels like home. I come from very far away. I was born and raised in Colombia and I've traveled around the world. I had the opportunity and was so lucky to able to go to Europe and live there before coming to the United States. I lived over there for many years. Coming to L.A. straight from Toulouse, France was a big cultural shock for me, learning all these new set of laws and lifestyles. And there's a lot of things I probably will never understand, like the freeway, but L.A. is special, it has so much, it's a place for everyone. I feel it's a big blender and that's something that I like about this city. When I was in France and went to Paris and rode the Metro and saw all these different cultures together, I was like, "This is good. I want to live in a city this."

And I ended up living in L.A., and you have the same feeling just like riding on a Metro in Paris. It's like a dream and every day I'm learning something new. There's a lot going on here in terms of opportunities and work, especially music and media. It's crazy. I'm super glad and lucky to have found my brothers here. The band has embraced me as a Chicano, as a brother, and that's the world for me. Yes, I feel home.

Arenas: I'm born and raised in L.A., I'm from the generation of kids that used to walk to the market and get a gallon of milk and a pack of tortillas. That's how I grew up. I used to sell flowers in the street on Mother's Day and Valentine's Day. We used to sell fruit and vegetables that we'd get, extras from the produce market in downtown L.A. and resell them on the streets. L.A. is me.

I grew up with Hollywood movies and TV shows, all this '80s and '90s action stuff—the vanity that comes with that. And the vision of wanting to be something else that also comes with that. Like Carlos was saying, there's no representation of Latinos on TV, especially when you're growing up in the '80s and '90s, only dumbasses or a donkey mother****ers. Or some, "arriba, arriba" type shit, which we tossed around as culture when we were kids because we don't know better. But, in a lot of places in the country, they still perceive it like that.

L.A. is what I carry with me all the time, even when I lived in Brazil and Panama. It's what I try to represent in my music, at least respective to the instrument that I play and the swagger I input and the way I want people to move. We want them to feel that this is the way L.A. moves you, when we're in Germany, Brazil or France. It doesn't matter where, it's rooted in L.A. and L.A. is international because our roots are deep. Our roots go way back, they're not just bounded to the streets and these grids and these traffic lights, they go down really deep to communities in Mexico, at least for me. I think that's what I can offer.

Martinez: I grew up in La Mirada, Calif., it's a suburb [in L.A. County]. My dad came to Santa Ana, Calif. with his grandma in the late '60s. My mom came to Orange County in the early '80s from Cartagena, Colombia. They established the family. I was the first one to come out and there's only two of us. We moved to La Mirada and lived in some apartments over there for a while, and then they bought a house. Parks and beaches were part of my family's recreational activities. I look at L.A. as a massive region as a county, not just a city.

And to be honest, I'm infatuated by its natural beauty, these hills, the mountains, the wildlife, the ocean. I think of things like, "Wow, I can see the sunset over the oceans horizon because I'm facing directly west" in Redondo Beach. And conversely, the sun sets over the mountains when I'm in Long Beach because I'm facing south. After so many years I can visualize the panorama from various points in relation to the map. Although I navigate L.A.s streets and highways, I'd rather be on a bike, traveling at the speed of my own will, heading in whatever direction without so much regard to traffic or signals. I guess I try to feel the region I live in, as opposed to think of it in the confines of the names and boundaries, that actually don't exist.

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What key things do you think are necessary for L.A. to become a place where all of its residents are celebrated and able to thrive?

Martinez: I think it's necessary for people to open their minds, drop the judgement. I feel like traveling definitely helped me see and feel things differently.

"For me, I'd say that following your heart can work!... I'm still marching to the beat of my own drum, because that's what I know how to do, and that's what makes whatever I do unique." -Bardo Martinez

It's been a decade since the band's debut—what have you learned about yourself as artists and as humans since then?

Martinez: For me, I'd say that following your heart can work! I've pursued music for aesthetic reasons, never really thinking about the markers of success, not to say those aren't necessary.

And I'm still marching to the beat of my own drum, because that's what I know how to do, and that's what makes whatever I do unique.

Tame Impala Checks In From Hibernation

Lady Gaga

Lady Gaga

Photo: Kevin Mazur/Getty Images

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Artists Talk Staying Grounded During Quarantine lady-gaga-naked-and-famous-bruno-major-more-artists-talk-staying-grounded-during

Lady Gaga, The Naked And Famous, Bruno Major & More Artists Talk Staying Grounded During Quarantine

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Justin Michael Williams, Mikey Lion, Cassian and Paul van Dyk also offer insight on how they're confronting these chaotic times
Ana Monroy Yglesias
MusiCares
Apr 21, 2020 - 10:43 am

These days of quarantine are unprecedented, intense and have disrupted almost every facet of our daily lives as well as the global economy. While the coronavirus pandemic has affected everyone differently, it has hit people and companies in the music and live event industry incredibly hard.

Over the past few weeks, we've been checking in with artists, many of whom have not been home this long since before their artist careers, to learn what has been helping them feel grounded amidst the current state of chaos in the world. Read on to hear what The Naked And Famous, Bruno Major, Justin Michael Williams, Mikey Lion, Cassian and Paul van Dyk shared with us in recent conversations over the past weeks of quarantine. GRAMMY-winning pop queen Lady Gaga recently spoke in-depth on mental health and staying grounded during the pandemic, so we've included thoughtful quotes from her as well.

 

Kindness Matters

Gaga points out this is a traumatic time for everyone, so it is extra important to be kind. She notes this will hit those with less resources harder than someone like herself, who has means. "Being kind is the most powerful thing we can do right now; being kind to each other and being self-aware… I am in a home that is safe, I can eat sanitary food. I can keep doing my work. This is not the same for everyone and I know that. Being self-aware, I think, is very important in how we stay together."

In the conversation, the "Born This Way" singer stresses the importance of mental health care and, understanding that many people don't currently have access to therapy, shares some helpful grounding techniques from dialectical behavioral therapy, or DBT, which has helped her.

"In DBT, it's called 'distress tolerance skills,' which is basically the skills we use to manage our stress. And one thing I can just offer people that are watching, and to also spread as a message to others, is one thing to ground yourself if you're panicking during this time is to say, okay let me get a bare on my surroundings. So for example you can say, 'My feet, where are they? My feet are on the ground. I'm looking at my hands. I'm sitting in my living room… My children are playing. My couch is white.'

Once you start listing and naming things and looking around the room, slowly it can bring you back down into where you are, so that you can feel grounded and can feel safe because there is going to be a wave of shock and trauma people are experiencing all over the world and it's just natural because this is very scary."

11 Meditation Apps To Help You Get Calm & Centered During Quarantine & Beyond

Slow Down

These days have been a stressful time for so many of us, especially with the double-whammy of extensive uncertainty and so much more time at home with ourselves. Just as Gaga highlighted the importance of being kind to each other and focusing on the present, alt-pop artist and meditation teacher Justin Michael Williams reminds us that it's more than okay to slow down right now amidst all the chaos.

"Remember that it's okay not to be super productive and overachieving during this time. This is especially hard for those of us who have gained our value from validation and 'success.' Typically, the world asks us to do more, be more and push harder. But right now it's time to pause," the "I Am Enough" singer recently told us over email.

"Pay attention. This is the flow of the universe. The whole world is slowing down. If you can, take this moment as a sacred pause. Instead of forcing yourself to 'do' more, give yourself a chance to 'be' more—and see what arises from there. Let it be okay that you don't have the capacity to overachieve at the level you were before. You're doing fine. Trust yourself."

As Williams' wisdom suggests, taking this global pause to see what comes up when you stop doing so much can be a great way to reevaluate old habits and routines. Examining the contrast to how hard you were always working or the speed at which you were constantly moving can be eye-opening for touring artists or anyone else who travels regularly. This can be a great time to catch up on or rebalance the things that tend to go to the wayside while on the road or otherwise constantly busy.

Start & Keep A Routine

For GRAMMY-nominated mixer/producer/DJ Cassian, putting energy towards finding a new quarantine version of his routine has not only been something that's kept him grounded during all the change, but will likely result in shifts in his routine post-quarantine.

"Everywhere I go really, I'm such a creature of routine; whether I'm in L.A. or when I'm in touring in Australia, I still get to have my routine more or less because my family's out there. So it's been hard to figure out what that new quarantine routine is like. I'm trying to stay focused on figuring it out, which is what's helping me stay grounded," the Aussie artist recently told us.

"For my workouts, I used to get up super early and go to the gym every day at the same time, same gym. Now, I've been exploring the neighborhood I live in, and walking around more. I'm definitely going to be doing more of that, definitely going to be cooking for myself more. My old routine I would just get up, workout, go to the studio. I would just be in the studio all day, have dinner at the studio, then come home and just sleep. Now I'm realizing I didn't need to do that, and I've set up a little studio at home, so now I can just work from home when I don't feel like going to the studio. Also, I traveled so much and I didn't question it, and took it for granted. And [now] it's been a conversation I've been having with my team."

Recovery & Sobriety During Quarantine: Online Meetings Become Game-Changing

British singer/songwriter Bruno Major also feels centered when he has a routine he can count on, with something he can ground the days to but with enough variety to keep things interesting.

"Being a musician, I've had zero structure in my life since I was 16 or 17 because I left school. So, [typically] I go the gym every morning and make sure that I do something every day that's the same. I feel like I need routine in my life. If you don't have it, you have to create it yourself. So just make sure you exercise every day or do something that isn't just Netflix. Learn a new skill, read a book, learn the piano. Just try to vary your days up," the "Old Soul" singer shared with us over the phone.

Like Cassian, he also sees this disruption in our regular routines as something that may act as a big life lesson for so many of us who've been "too busy" to stop and reconsider it.

"I think there's a great lesson to be learned here as well. When you don't have the thing that you should be doing every day, then you're just left with the things you want to do. And you have to worry about what it is that you want. I think people are learning a lot about themselves during this period."

Staying Active At Home: Online Workouts To Do During COVID-19 Quarantine

Seek Balance

For Alisa Xayalith of electro-pop duo The Naked And Famous, sleeping adequately, exercising, cooking and watching cooking videos all help keep her calm and centered. "When I don't have enough sleep, I don't feel like I can focus or perform to the best of my ability. But in times where I need to feel grounded, I usually exercise."

"[Also,] I cook. That helps me feel grounded. I was on tour for the last month so I haven't been able to do that very much. Cooking and baking is something that helps me feel super grounded, which is why I have gotten into making sourdough bread and I have things that I love to cook. Just the process of preparing everything, cooking everything, and the end product is going to be delicious—it always feels good to me."

For her bandmate Thom Powers, he stays grounded with critical thinking and the balance of his partner. "I don't really have one thing that I do to stay grounded. Maybe reading. I think I am a grounded person by nature just by being very critical, by working on my critical thinking skills as a hobby. I am not a very smart person, I didn't go to university or get a degree in anything. Critical thinking is probably what keeps me grounded and realistic. Also, my partner keeps me very grounded when I get delusional, or worried about things," Powers said.

"I think when I am least grounded, I have a very unrealistic view, a very envious, jealous and comparative view because of the way music culture has shifted to this online content provider paradigm. Some days when I wake up and I feel negative, I just feel this immense pressure to be this content provider, which is something that does not come naturally to me, it's difficult. But some people, it just comes so naturally to them to put their unedited selves up on the internet."

He brings up a great point about social media, and how he sometimes feels pressure to be more engaged with it and "better" at having a social presence like other artists or influencers. Xayalith underscored that social media can be overwhelming at times for everyone who engages with it, which is why she opts to generally limit social media scrolling to watching cooking videos, which she finds "super soothing" and sometimes inspiring for her next meal.

In contrast to trying to keep up with social media, staying in touch with your friends and family over the phone and with video calls can be really nice during these times. Not only is it a great practice to have little mental health and wellness check-ins with your loved ones, catching up while apart can help with feelings of isolation.

https://twitter.com/ASStronautalexa/status/1249474085945348096

This really is a special thing they got going on over at desert hearts, all of their live-streams have been so amazing and make you feel like they’re playing just for you💙💙 https://t.co/llhdsv1kQB

— disco tits🪐 (@ASStronautalexa) April 12, 2020

Practice Self-Love

DJ/producer and Desert Hearts leader Mikey Lion echoes the importance of both self-care and staying in touch with the people you miss. "I'm really focused on staying healthy right now and exercising. Just going on walks and keeping things the more-solo parts of my normal routine. I've also been calling my friends and my family and seeing how they're doing. It always keeps me grounded and since we are all in it together, that collective group thing of getting through it and knowing and taking comfort in the fact that we are all experiencing this together. That's what keeps me the most grounded."

During quarantine, Zoom video calls have become a popular tool to gather virtually—many March and April birthday parties, yoga classes and dance parties happened (safely and remotely) thanks to Zoom. Lion shares how his crew of fellow DJs and creatives used Zoom to reconnect shortly after quarantine began. "I just took some time to call a bunch of my friends and it felt so good, we had this huge Zoom chat with 20 of our friends from our Burning Man camp. We literally had a livestream party for four hours with all of our best friends. We were all taking shots almost every 30 minutes and coming up with new games and new rules. Oh my god, it felt like we were all together, just having fun. It was this massive release and way for us to blow off steam. It was really amazing."

The Desert Hearts squad has also been sharing a bunch of live DJ sets and other content with their daily-ish DHTv livestream series, which have been a fun way for them to keep sharing music with their loyal fanbase. Many other artists have been doing regular musical livestreams as a way to keep everyone dancing and singing along from the safety of their homes, including Paul van Dyk with his regular PC Music Night on Facebook.

How Will Coronavirus Shift Electronic Music? Maceo Plex, Paul Van Dyk, Luttrell, Mikey Lion & DJ Manager Max Leader Weigh In

The creativity, generosity, kindness and love so many people have shown each other during this global crisis, especially where their nation's leaders and systems fail them, is quite powerful. For legendary GRAMMY-nominated German DJ/producer Paul van Dyk seeing this love and compassion as people care for each other gives him hope right now, and the partnership and love he feels with his wife helps him feel grounded.

"It's love on all levels. It's the love to your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your wife, your husband; in my case, obviously, my wife. It's the love and caretaking that people have for each other and how we all stand together. This is something that I see that I feel is a little bit of a positive out of all this that. We as a species, have to survive this and have the possibility to come out of it stronger."

Now more than ever, this is the time, as Gaga said, to be kind to each other, and as van Dyk's and Lion's comments highlight, to really appreciate the people in our life who are there for us—and to be there for them to. And there is no time like now to create a personal dancefloor in your living room and for artists to share some tunes with their internet friends to keep everyone grooving.

Jewel On Advocating For Mental Health In The Age Of COVID-19

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