Morgan Wallen

Morgan Wallen

 

Photo: John Shearer

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Morgan Wallen On Crafting His Chart-Topping, 30-Song Project ‘Dangerous: The Double Album’

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Fast-rising country star Morgan Wallen spoke with GRAMMY.com about his record-breaking 'Dangerous: The Double Album' and the challenges of a nearly gig-free year
Jessica Nicholson
GRAMMYs
Jan 27, 2021 - 9:49 am

A single party almost cost Morgan Wallen the gig of a lifetime. Last October, the fast-rising country star, known for his '90s-era mullet, sleeveless plaid shirts and down-home vernacular, was disinvited from his "Saturday Night Live" debut after he attended a maskless party during the COVID-19 pandemic. (Wallen released an apology video and made his "SNL" debut in December.)

Wallen has four consecutive No. 1 hits on country radio under his belt: “Up Down" feat. Florida Georgia Line, “Whiskey Glasses,” “Chasin’ You” and “More Than My Hometown.” With such a controversy in the rearview, some artists might play it safe with their second album, fearing the dreaded “sophomore slump.” However, on Jan. 8, Wallen released his newest project, the 30-song Dangerous: The Double Album, on which he proved he has no problem being a rebel—personally and professionally. And it’s paying off, big time.

Last week (Jan. 17), Dangerous debuted atop the Billboard 200 albums chart. The project earned the largest streaming week ever for a country album, according to Billboard, besting Luke Combs’ record set by the expanded version of What You See Is What You Get, in October 2020. Dangerous remains at No. 1 this week, the "first country album to spend two weeks in a row at No. 1 since Chris Stapleton’s Traveller in 2015," Billboard reports.

In November, Wallen capped off 2020 by accepting the Country Music Association’s New Artist Of The Year award, which followed last summer’s soft-rock-tinged hit, “7 Summers.” The track debuted atop Billboard’s Hot Country Songs chart and shattered streaming records on Apple Music and Spotify.

Dangerous: The Double Album balances Wallen’s rowdy ways with more heartfelt, romantic material. Through countless odes to partying and endless rounds of liquid courage, he chronicles a journey of seeking love, losing love and growing up in the piercing heat of a global spotlight. Wallen steeped the album in an amalgam of country and swaggering arena rock, accented by banjos, mandolins, steel guitar and programmed beats.

The morning after debuting songs from Dangerous during his socially distanced debut headlining show at Nashville’s Ryman Auditorium, Wallen spoke with GRAMMY.com about the challenges of a nearly gig-free year, the reason why he made a double album and the Jason Isbell song that most resonates with him.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

The Ryman Auditorium concert marked your debut headlining performance at country music’s Mother Church, but also your first full concert in about ten months.
I was honestly nervous because we hadn’t played in so long, and with all new songs and everything. But it felt even better than I expected. I had intentions to talk more during the show, but the first time I started talking, I almost started bawling my eyes out, so I decided not to talk much after that. I miss [playing shows] so bad, so it was emotional for me to be up there. Seeing those people and the energy they gave out is something I have missed tremendously.

When did you first visit the Ryman Auditorium?
My first time was playing a show with Craig Wiseman to support Second Harvest Food Bank. So the first time I ever went through the doors, I got to sing a song, which is pretty cool.

If I Know Me, your debut album, is certified platinum and reached No. 1 on Billboard’s Top Country Albums chart. Still, putting out a 30-song album for your second major label project is a bold move.
With the time we are in, I was given a lot more time to work on it because I wasn’t on the road. The idea of making a double album started as a joke between my manager [Big Loud CEO Seth England] and me. We already had about 20 songs done at the beginning of 2020, but then everything happened the way it did, and I had time to add more. Some of those turned out to be my favorites on the album. We thought, “Why not?”

People need entertainment to get their minds off of what is going on, and it’s a hard time for everyone. Music is one of the only ways to get my mind off of it, so I figured most people felt the same way. We pretty much emptied the tank on this one and decided to go all-out on it.

Morgan Wallen performs at the Ryman Auditorium

Morgan Wallen performs at the Ryman Auditorium | Photo: John Shearer/Getty Images for Ryman Auditorium

Why “Dangerous” as the title track?
Ernest [Keith Smith] and I wrote that after I got into a little trouble, but we put a love story in it to make it more relatable. Honestly, it’s more of a letter to myself than it is a love story. I felt like it was a lesson I learned, and the overall premise of the message resonated with me, so I felt we should go with it as a title.

How have you handled writing songs via Zoom during the pandemic?
I did a couple of Zoom writes, then we figured out we could get mobile testing done, so we all made sure we were good before we would write in the same room. I wrote with the same group of guys a lot, so we had a pretty good trust with each other. Zoom writing is not something I enjoy doing at all. It’s hard for me to feel the same energy or vibe. I think I wrote two songs on Zoom. One was a failure, and we didn’t finish it. The other song I wrote with Thomas Rhett and was not a failure [laughs]. There are certain things you can’t replace and for me, writing in person is one of them.

You have performed Jason Isbell’s “Cover Me Up” live, and you included a version of it for this project. What is it about that song that speaks to you?
That was the first Jason Isbell song I heard. I think that’s a pretty solid introduction to anyone, and then I discovered the rest of his catalog. The song’s arrangement is beautiful. It reminded me of my mom and dad. My dad used to be pretty wild and a little bit reckless, kind of not caring about anything. But he loved my mom, and he chose her over all that, so it reminded me of their story.

My guitar player and I would warm up by playing [“Cover Me Up”], and people would stop by and say, “Dang, what is that?” I was kind of disappointed that people in my lane, my part of life, didn’t know that song, and I thought they should. I figured the best way for me to spread that song was to do my own version.

Doing a cover like that is risky. You run the risk of the original artist not appreciating it. It took me a while to decide to do it, but my team and everyone made me feel comfortable. I appreciate Jason giving me the support he has on it.

You’ve had some ups and downs over the past year. Did your dad have any encouragement or advice for you during that time?
He felt for me because he had been in kind of a similar situation, without having to learn it in the spotlight. He just let me know he was there for me and that I would get through it. Just a lot of encouragement for me during that time, which meant more to me than anything he could have done.

Before the pandemic and this new album’s success, your star was already skyrocketing. You were set to open shows for Luke Bryan in 2020. But as you hopefully return to touring in 2021, how will that look for you?
I will still go out and open for my buddy Luke. We are honoring those dates, and we have plans to start doing our own arena shows as soon as we can get back to touring.

“Livin’ The Dream” starts with the gut-punch line, “Mama don't pray for my success anymore/But mama still prays for me.” The song addresses the stressors that often come with fame—the loneliness, the alcohol, the grueling schedules. Did you have any second thoughts about including it on the album?
I definitely had some second thoughts about it. I didn’t want people to worry about me. I didn’t want people to think it was a cry for help. We wrote that song a good while ago before I even knew the real meaning behind it. It was almost a prophetic song, in a way. You don’t always wake up pumped to be in the spotlight, but you always have to be “on.” That part can get a little tiring.

I don’t feel that way most of the time. Most of the time, I feel blessed to do something I love, but it’s not all fun and games. We wanted to write it from an honest perspective, and that’s one of the most real lyrics I’ve been part of creating.

There are several references to hometowns and small towns throughout Dangerous. You went to Gibbs High School, where Kenny Chesney attended. Did knowing that one of country music’s most significant artists came from your area give you confidence that you could try to pursue music, too?
I was so caught up in baseball in high school. I still sang and stuff, but I was supposed to play in college. Once baseball got taken away [due to an injury], I started writing my own songs. Between my family’s encouragement and knowing that someone from a little high school like I’m from could do it, that played a part in my lack of doubt.

I’ve never really let negative thoughts get in the way. I never let the idea of failure enter my mind, and I still don’t. I think that’s important for anything you want to achieve.

The Unbreakable Margo Price

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Ingrid Andress

Ingrid Andress

Photo: Jess Williams

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Ingrid Andress On Finding Her Sound—And Breaking Country Norms With It

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Following the release of her 2020 debut album, 'Lady Like,' rising country star Ingrid Andress, who is up for three GRAMMYs this month, explains why having her breakout year during a pandemic worked out for her
Taylor Weatherby
GRAMMYs
Mar 1, 2021 - 9:49 am

Despite the abundant darkness of 2020, Ingrid Andress had the biggest year of her life. Along with honors like inclusion on Forbes 30 Under 30 and big-time TV performances, including "Colbert" and "Today," the 29-year-old singer/songwriter celebrated a country radio No. 1 with the heartfelt breakup ballad "More Hearts Than Mine" and the release of her debut album, Lady Like. Both the single and the album earned Andress her first-ever GRAMMY nominations, for Best Country Song and Best Country Album, respectively, as well as a coveted Best New Artist nod, at the 2021 GRAMMY Awards show. (Ahead of GRAMMY night, Andress will participate in the Recording Academy's inaugural "Women In The Mix" virtual celebration on International Women's Day, Monday, March 8.)

Andress has already achieved so much, she's joked about retiring before she even turns 30. "Honestly, I do think I've peaked," Andress says with a laugh. "I've accomplished all the things that I've wanted to do, so it's kind of like, 'Should I get into the restaurant business? What is next for me?'"

Though she has been working on her cooking skills while in quarantine, Andress' success thus far proves that she's too good at songwriting to give it up just yet. Even before she had hits of her own, the singer/songwriter co-penned cuts for pop stars like Charli XCX, Fletcher and Bebe Rexha and landed in the studio with Alicia Keys and Sam Hunt. And as the only country act in the Best New Artist category this year, Andress has made a name for herself as an artist, too.

Ingrid Andress gave GRAMMY.com a call to talk about her beginnings, her transition from behind the scenes to center stage, and her hope for a female-driven future. (Don't worry, Ingrid fans: Her retirement isn't part of it).

Ingrid Andress | First-Time GRAMMY Nominee

How does it feel to be the only country artist in the Best New Artist category?

I still feel like that was an accident. [Laughs.] It's sort of a mindf--k because I'm still so new—like, new new—nobody knows who I am because I haven't been able to tour or anything. I feel honored that I am doing something that represents Nashville. 

I'm glad that I get to represent a part of country music that maybe people don't necessarily think of when they think of country—you know, a lot of people think of it as like, beer and trucks. I'm glad that people realize that I don't have to sing about beer and trucks for people to like it.

Although "More Hearts Than Mine" was released in 2019, last year felt like you established that you weren't going to be a one-hit-wonder with the release of your album Lady Like. What was it like to have your breakout year happen in a time when you could hardly even be face-to-face with people?

I'm probably one of the only people I know who can be like, "2020 was my year." But I feel like it might have been for the better. There's just so much hype that goes with all that celebration, and to me, it's about the music and how people are connecting to it. Last year was more about that authentic connection to the music. It was cool to hear people's stories of how they hear their own lives in whatever I was saying.

Your mom was a piano teacher, so I assume that's how you got started with it. But what ultimately made it feel like your instrument?

It was a love-hate relationship at the beginning. But when you live with your piano teacher, you don't have a choice. We made a deal where if I got to a certain level of piano, then I'd get to pick whatever instrument I wanted. 

Naturally, I picked drums because I was going through a punk and metal phase. I was like, "I just want to bang on some s--t." I got more into [playing] piano in high school. I was homeschooled for the majority of my education, so high school was confusing. Piano felt like therapy. It was just a great outlet emotionally.

After getting your start writing for other artists, what made you decide to pursue being an artist yourself?

There was a song that I wrote that was very personal to me. I didn't want anybody to have it, but I still had to give it away. When I started writing about my personal feelings, it became harder to picture somebody else singing them. 

So I thought, "You know what, if I don't want to give these away, I probably need to sing them and put them out myself." I knew I wanted to be an artist, but I also didn't think I was [fit for it] because many of the artists I worked with didn't know what they wanted to say. It came out of the natural progression of me finding what I wanted to write about.

Read: Get Lost In The Best Country Song Nominees | 2021 GRAMMYs

So how did you find your sound after that?

I think it was going back and forth between Nashville and LA to write. I've been doing that for five years now. The writing process is so different for each city—writing country music in Nashville, you're all sitting in a room with guitars and talking about lyrics and how to set up the song. Whereas in LA, you go in, there's a track playing, it's on a loop, and you just have to sing melodies over it. 

Nobody's talking about lyrics. My sound came from learning how to combine those two things. I would write songs that would straddle the line, and people would say, "We can't pitch it to a country artist, but it also has smart storyteller lyrics. And it's not poppy enough for pop."

So the songs just sort of created their lane that nobody could cut except for me.

You're part of a groundbreaking GRAMMY year for women in country, as the Best Country Album category—which includes Lady Like—is all projects from solo women or female-fronted groups for the first time. Has it felt like there's been a shift in the way women are supported and recognized in the genre?

It's still kind of slow, but the female turnout in the GRAMMY [categories] this year was such a breath of fresh air. Then you look at country radio, and it's white dudes. It brought me a lot of joy to see the contrast and how opposite it is to what country radio is doing right now. But to see all these women validated for their great work is a huge statement. Even if it's not on the radio, it's still acknowledged as a beautiful piece of art.

I feel like there's sort of a female movement and confident, feminine energy happening in every genre right now. Do you think that, too?

For sure. I hope more women start saying how they feel about things because chances are, we're all going to relate to it. Even if it's something that people feel is controversial, I'm like, please bring it on. The more controversy, the better. We've evolved so much, and I feel like it's our jobs as creatives to pull the mirror up to what's happening in society. It's going to happen eventually, so we might as well start coming out and being honest about how we feel. 

You hold true to that on Lady Like, and now you're being rewarded for it.

I'm just here to write about my feelings and hope people feel the same way. Especially in this past year, when everything was so divided and chaotic, I feel like the response to my music was a nice reminder that we all could come together by listening to music that is relatable to all of us.

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Lauren Patten On The Timelessness Of "Jagged Little Pill" And Owning Her Identity On The Broadway Stage

Jack Harlow

Jack Harlow

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: The Unchartable Rise Of Jack Harlow

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One of rap's breakout stars of 2020, Jack Harlow discusses his first GRAMMY nomination, adjusting to the visibility of fame and the everlasting staying power of "Whats Poppin"
Keith Nelson Jr
GRAMMYs
Mar 3, 2021 - 3:54 pm

Here's a quick timeline of rapper Jack Harlow's 2020: "Whats Poppin" is released in January; the song is certified platinum in May; the remix with Lil Wayne, Tory Lanez and DaBaby helps the record skyrocket to No. 2 on the Billboard Hot 100 in June; his debut album That's What They All Say debuted in the Top 10 on the Billboard Top 200 in December. However, that's only the surface. Between the crevices of the solid foundation laid by the 22-year-old rising star's success were years of struggles with the perpetual visibility that comes with fame—and the introspection pandemic-induced solitude brings.

Rap fans have seen Harlow grow before our eyes. Still, the moment Harlow felt like he made it in music wasn't when he got his first platinum single, or when he got his XXL Freshman selection, or even when he made his television debut on "The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon."

"I remember the night the album dropped, we were out celebrating, and [DJ] Drama looked at me and said, 'You're here now.' I can tell by the way he said it that he wasn't just saying it in a loose way. He meant it," Jack Harlow told GRAMMY.com. "I was like, 'Damn, you think so?' He was like, 'Absolutely; you're locked in. You're here.' That was special because I felt like he was right at that moment."

Signed to DJ Drama's Generation Now label since the summer of 2018, the Louisville, Kentucky, native has grown from a mixtape darling to a bona fide star. He did so mainly thanks to "Whats Poppin," which earned him his first-ever GRAMMY nomination for Best Rap Performance at the 2021 GRAMMY Awards show—barely over two years after becoming a signed artist.

In a recent chat with GRAMMY.com, Harlow spoke about the validation of his GRAMMY nomination, how he made "Whats Poppin," and the idols he's turned into fans.

Jack Harlow | Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Describe the moment you found out you were nominated for a GRAMMY.

I was watching them announce it live. I was waiting as they went through all the categories. It felt like hip-hop was last. I was watching, patiently waiting. They started listing Best Rap Performance, and sure enough, "Whats Poppin" is there. Then, I had this moment of "What the hell?" because they put Luke James. It said, 'Whats Poppin" by Luke James. I was like, "Yo!" It didn't stop my celebration because I knew there was only one "Whats Poppin." 

I was turnt. I got calls after calls. I got calls while I was on a call! The calls were pouring in. It was a special day. It was validating. I definitely didn't expect to get nominated this early in my career. I'll take it.

How do you feel this GRAMMY nomination and possible win might affect your career going forward?

It's a great stamp. It's something I can carry with me for the rest of my life. A win would be huge but to be nominated is a great step for me. If anything, it just raises the bar. I love when these things happen because it gives me something higher to shoot for, to keep pushing myself. I'm forced to hold myself to a certain standard now. I'm GRAMMY-nominated.

How did you make the song that eventually would net you your first GRAMMY nomination?

I was on the very last tour I did before the pandemic and Jetson[made] DMed me saying he wanted to do work. At the time, I wasn't in touch with a lot of the hottest producers in the game. I had a few relationships, don't get me wrong. [But] this was an exciting message because it was someone who was dominating things and making songs that were touching the culture.

I was excited to get to Atlanta to work with him. So, the very first day I went back to the studio I told him to come through. The second day we worked, he invited Pooh Beats to the studio and Pooh started playing the beats he and Jetson had made. As soon as I heard the piano keys [on "Whats Poppin"], before I heard the drums, I knew I needed that. 

I told him to load it up. It was one of the best beats I ever heard. From there, I made the decision to not overthink and specifically remember telling myself, "Yo, say the first thing that comes to mind for every line." I did that and the rest was history. It came together in a really special way.

Saying you made it without overthinking helps me understand certain lines from the song, like when you say "Just joshing." It sounds like it was you just having a regular conversation.

It's crazy you bring that line up, because I just did an interview with SPIN and I was telling them what I just told you, about not overthinking. That's why that line is in the song. I refused to let myself stop. I always planned on replacing that line. To this day, I'm kind of not a big fan of that line. It's kind of taken on a life of its own, so it is what it is. The whole time I had that song I was saying, "Yeah, I'm going to replace that line." Me saying "Just joshing" was a placeholder; it was silly. But, then that shit stuck.

What was the hardest part about breaking through and getting that recognition when you started out?

It was an internal battle. I think I was figuring out myself as an artist. I still am, but I'm a little older now and I've grown into a man. The process of being a teenager is you learning about yourself. You're learning what you want to project. At the same time that I'm discovering myself, I'm making decisions about what type of artist I want to be and I have all this pressure on myself to honor who I really am. 

I'm more comfortable in my skin than I've ever been. I'm more comfortable in what I'm projecting because I'm secure in it. When I was younger, I did a lot of projecting what I thought people wanted me to be, or what I thought people saw me as. Now, I'm being exactly who I am.

On "Keep It Light" from your album, you say you aren't comfortable getting all of the praise. Are there moments over the last year that depicts how the fame you've acquired hasn't been all great, and you had to adjust?

Truth be told, I'm an attention whore. I do love the praise. I love the attention. But, there are moments where I'm channeling a different part of my personality. I have a certain percentage of me that is an introvert and isn't always in the mood to be praised or reciprocate energy for people. 

There are moments when you have fans lurking and you don't want to deal with them at that moment or have to talk with them at that moment. Or, sometimes you're at parties and you don't want to talk about yourself. Sometimes you're back home and you're with the people you grew up with and you just want a break from the conversation being about you because it's uncomfortable.

For me, it feels a little braggadocious and gets uncomfortable at times. It's not that I hate it all the time, there are just moments. I love my fans and it's very validating to run into them in public and they make me feel good. But, I'm a moody person like most people.

Are there any things you've been able to get for yourself with your new fame and status that you've always wanted to get?

I remember about three or four years ago, I told everyone I'm close to that I was going to get the Static Major "Kentucky" chain, which is the silhouette of Kentucky. A few months ago, I finally did it. That was a huge moment for me to follow through on what I said. I don't have too many material things I want. The best thing about money is not having to worry about money. There's no item you can buy that's better than that.

You're signed to Generation Now with DJ Drama. What lessons did he teach you about this music industry that you applied to your career?

It's still ongoing to this day. He has opinions on what kind of car I should go out to the club in. He's constantly schooling me. We spend a lot of time together, so he tells me stories about the past. He gives me ideas on the way to maneuver and handle relationships.

He gives me tons of game. He's been in it for so long, there are certain traditions he speaks on that I enjoy honoring. I know I have to carve my own path, and I like to be innovative, but I have somebody who has a love for tradition.

How long did it take the album to come together and how did the pandemic affect its making?

I had a couple of songs that were started before the pandemic, but you can mark the beginning of the pandemic as when I started working on this album. I remember on the day everyone found out we had to go inside I made a mental note of making this album. "Whats Poppin" was moving and I knew it was time.

That first month of being in the house terrified and not knowing what was going on or going outside, I was inside writing and I wrote four or five songs on that album in the first couple of weeks. I wrote "Tyler Herro," "Baxter Avenue" and "Funny Seeing You Here" in the first week or so. I think I just hit a groove while in the house. I think that's where a lot of that introspective nature came from. I think I would've made a lot more party songs.

One silver lining that came from being inside was I was looking inwards. You listen to Sweet Action and that's full of party records because that's what my life was. So, when I had to sit inside for a bit, I got reflective and it was a good thing for that album.

Who were some surprising celebrity fans of yours since the success of "Whats Poppin?"

[Long pause] I've met Drake once or twice. We've talked a couple of times, and he's tuned in and listening. He's had some kind words. That definitely meant a lot to me because I'm a Drake stan, so getting that recognition from him was super special. To hear he was fond of the music, or co-signed the music, was very validating to me.

Lil Wayne is another one. Wayne loves my shit and he got on the remix. That was a huge deal to me. The reason I paused for so long was that there's one I can't wait to announce that I recently connected with. It's not time for me to say who yet because there's more to it. Hopefully, after this interview comes out, people can connect the dots. This is a big one; it's a bucket-list one.

Pull Up On The Best Rap Song Nominees | 2021 GRAMMYs

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Lauren Patten

Lauren Patten

Photo: Jenny Anderson

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Lauren Patten On The Timelessness Of "Jagged Little Pill" And Owning Her Identity On The Broadway Stage

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Actress and singer Lauren Patten tells GRAMMY.com about her experience working on "Jagged Little Pill" and using Alanis Morissette's music to start authentic conversations
Alicia Ramírez
GRAMMYs
Feb 19, 2021 - 5:43 pm

Actress and singer Lauren Patten is responsible for one of the most vulnerable performances in recent Broadway history.

She delivered a riveting performance as Jo in "Jagged Little Pill," the Broadway smash inspired by Alanis Morissette's 1995 GRAMMY-winning album of the same name. On top of earning her critical praise and her first Tony nomination, the role landed Patten her first-ever GRAMMY nomination, for Best Musical Theater Album at the upcoming 2021 GRAMMYs Awards show. Her howling rendition of "You Oughta Know," which she unleashes after she's wronged by her partner and best friend, frequently earned her standing ovations. A star was born.

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Lauren Patten

But she isn't just any star. Seeing her grapple with anguish and the process of self-discovery in "Jagged Little Pill" is like seeing an artist grow into themselves, exposing their darkest parts for audiences to witness. As Jo, a teen exploring her gender presentation while in the throes of first love, Patten exercises her voice like a mighty instrument, allowing audiences to witness a performance of unmatched force and nuance whether they've experienced the musical in person or only listened to the cast recording. By the end of "You Oughta Know," Patten is so submerged in Jo's turmoil, it's clear she's emotionally drained. Still, the excitement of witnessing the birth of something greater lingers long after her tears, and those from the audience, have dried. 

GRAMMY.com spoke with Lauren Patten about the responsibility she feels as a bisexual queer woman in playing a character like Jo, working on such a resonant musical despite the ongoing, Broadway-shuttering pandemic, and using Alanis Morissette's music to start authentic conversations about identity, sexuality, race and beyond.

(Oh, and did we mention she started a band with some of the musicians from "Jagged Little Pill," too? Because, obviously, that was something we had to discuss.)

What kind of music are you listening to in quarantine? Have you rediscovered anything?

I recently rediscovered Damien Rice. I hadn't listened to any of his albums for years, and then his music appeared on my Spotify. It also happened recently with Glen Hansard. I went through a pretty big Glen Hansard phase and saw him in concert at the Beacon Theatre [in New York], which was amazing for his Didn't He Ramble album; and I hadn't listened to him for a few years and was like, "Wait, he's released new music?" That has been a little bit of a musical joy recently, going back to artists that I know and love and getting comfort from their work.

You performed in "Jagged Live In NYC: A Broadway Reunion Concert." Tell me about encountering "You Oughta Know" and "Hand in My Pocket" after nine months.

It was overwhelming but interesting, too, because we were doing this massive undertaking, creating a concert version of the show and revisiting the story we hadn't told for nine months. We did the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade and the "Best of Broadway" special. I also performed "Hand in My Pocket" on Zoom, but we hadn't been on a stage telling this story until rehearsals. Of course, we had to limit our time together because of COVID risks, so we didn't have a long rehearsal process. 

I initially didn't register how I was feeling because it was like firing on all cylinders so we could do this concert in a way that felt true to the caliber of our show. It didn't hit me until we were doing it. I was like, "Wow, I'm backstage watching my castmates perform. I'm backstage waiting for my cue." We didn't have an audience or a full cast, which felt strange. But I knew many people were on this journey with us. Once it was happening, it was emotionally overwhelming.

You've created a tight-knit group of musicians around you. Damien Bassman, Eric Davis and Marc Schmied have been vital. How has it felt to create that bond and how does that collaboration look like in practice?

Damien and Eric are in our band for "Jagged Little Pill." Damien played our first reading in 2017 and afterward came up to me and said he wanted to start a band with me; I'd never been in a band before. We continued developing "Jagged," and after the out-of-town tryout in Cambridge [in 2018], I asked if he was still interested. At that point, Eric had always been the guitarist for "Jagged," so I knew Eric well, Damian knew Eric well, and they'd been in the original pit for "Next to Normal"; and then Damien brought Marc in. 

It started as an outlet, to just be in that joy together and play songs that we liked, whether it was going to lead to a concert or not. It's extremely collaborative, and we know each other so well and know what our strengths are, so we all bring songs to rehearsals and choose the best ones. We primarily work on Broadway, but we have a deep love for many music genres, mainly rock, from childhood, so our sets end up being very diverse and eclectic. 

I'm the song interpreter as far as lyrics go and whatever I'm doing vocally, but full credit for the musical arrangements goes to Damien, Eric and Marc. Taking an Amy Winehouse song for this acoustic set and making it into a kind of Spanish-influenced guitar and drum vibe, that's them. I learn from them every time we rehearse because of the different musical worlds I've ever been in, and their knowledge of musical styles is so vast. It's very exciting for me, as a vocalist, to watch them work, where they think it would be interesting to take a song arrangement, and then I can come in with how I can fit into that with my interpretation of the vocals and the lyrics.

I'm such a fan of "I Miss The Mountains." Why did you gravitate toward that song to cover?

That's the only time we've ever done a musical theater song in our sets! [Laughs.] We thought it would be nice to do something that shows our love for and our connection to Tom [Kitt] [musical supervisor, orchestrator and arranger of "Jagged Little Pill" and composer and co-orchestrator of "Next to Normal"] and do something of that genre in our way. 

What was it like to adjust your Rockwood Music Hall sets to a virtual setting? What does the future of live music look like for you?

It has definitely been a highlight of my year, being able to be back with my band and play and share live music, because it's an enormous joy in my life and a relatively new one. We use my name, but it's an artistic endeavor among all four of us. 

I long for the day [when] we can play Rockwood to a sold-out house, because the energy is irreplaceable. But there's something beautiful about piping live music straight into somebody's house. The number of people who purchased tickets doubled the number of people Stage 2 holds for a concert. People under 21 who usually can't come to Rockwood could watch it, and so could people from all over the world who can't come to New York! 

You have great artists and technicians deciding on the sound mix and the camera angles at the moment with you to ensure the stream feels intimate and personal, so it becomes this other artistic endeavor. I don't think that it will replace live music; nothing will. This is teaching us about the possibilities of hybrids and having some concerts that are meant to be live and having some concerts that are tailored to be livestreamed and because there are benefits, mainly the accessibility of it. 

Lyrics can be somewhat self-explanatory, but they also mean something different to everyone. What do the lyrics to "You Oughta Know" mean to you?

People have a perception of what that song is, and because of it, they've made a perception of what the entire album of Jagged Little Pill is, which is wildly off-base. There's obviously lots of rage, betrayal, and imagining revenge as a catharsis. But there's something when you interpret the song as a musical theater artist who is telling a character's story through song that you just listen to a song differently. How I would sing "You Oughta Know" with my band is very different from how I've ever sung it. 

What strikes me lyrically is that there's something very specific in how these lyrics have been queered for the show, and that adds layers of meaning that weren't in the original song. What does it mean to say, rather than "Would she have your baby?" to say, "And you can have his baby?" It's a very different lyric, and it's very loaded. That also meant losing iconic lyrics like, "I hate to bug you in the middle of dinner."

One of the beautiful things about Alanis is that she's so generous with her work, which is no small feat when you have a song as known as "You Oughta Know." When you look at a song as a musical theater artist, you hear things differently. You look at the first lyric of the chorus and, musically, it's different from how you look at it on a page. When you look at it on a page, it's a sentence. "I'm here to remind you." It's really the full sentence, "I'm here to remind you of the mess you left when you went away." When you sing it, there are no vocals between "I'm here" and "to remind you." 

Something about that hit me very deeply! This entire song from this person saying, "I'm here," is very different [from], "It's not fair/To deny me/Of the cross I bear..." This chorus starts with this person screaming, "I'm here," so it's a very different song to me than, "You cheated on me; f* you; you have to look at how you hurt me." "You have to look at me because I'm here, and I need to be seen." It became a song for a character who tries to deflect everything she feels with humor to say what she needs to say for the first time. It became a song that circumstantially came out of a queer person who was betrayed romantically, but that's not what the song is about to me anymore.  

As a queer artist, did you feel the pressure of representing this group of humans? 

The conversation about representation is so important, and I'm so glad that it's happening. It's also really complicated, because one person cannot represent the entire LGBTQ+ community since it's so diverse and varied in experiences. Still, I'm so happy to be able to represent even one specific person's experience.

You've poured a lot of yourself into Jo, and you've done the same with your music. Has playing Jo played a part in your personal growth at this stage in your life?

I don't think that, as an actor, you can spend the kind of time, energy and soul that you put into developing a character for years and not grow. At the beginning of developing this character, I'd recently come out. Telling this story of this person who doesn't know what that means for her yet and is actively trying to figure it out while I was, too, was a very parallel experience. 

It's funny to be years into the show's development, and I'm in a different place than Jo and I've grown up with this baby Jo in my body. [Laughs.] There's a level of freedom to what I've gotten to do on stage as Jo that I haven't had anywhere, and that has changed me as an artist and a person. What I do on stage as Jo was in me; how I connect to Alanis' music was in me. I didn't know that before. As you mentioned, you can see it when I perform with my band, and I don't know if I would've found that if I hadn't had "Jagged." 

Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Arca Is Expanding Latin Music On Her Terms With Electronic Album KiCK i

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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Antibalas

Antibalas

 

Photo: Celine Pinget

 
 
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Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee: Antibalas Talk 'Fu Chronicles,' Kung Fu And Their Mission To Spread Afrobeat

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Antibalas members Martín Perna and Duke Amayo discuss their origin story, their decades-long rise as an outlier in Brooklyn and how their first-ever GRAMMY nomination for Best Global Music Album could help introduce new listeners to Afrobeat
Morgan Enos
GRAMMYs
Feb 16, 2021 - 7:27 pm

Even somebody who barely listens to music could presumably name three artists in each of these spheres: rock, blues and jazz. Sure, Bob Marley may remain the embodiment of reggae, but chances are you've heard of Toots and the Maytals or Lee "Scratch" Perry at least once. What about Afrobeat, a West African amalgam of soul and funk with regional styles like Yoruba and highlife?

For many, the Afrobeat conversation begins and ends with the outrageous, incendiary, brilliant multi-instrumentalist and pioneer of the form, Fela Kuti. While the Brooklyn Afrobeat ensemble Antibalas, which ranges from 11 to 19 members, undoubtedly work from the template Kuti helped create, they argue the story of Afrobeat begins—not ends—with him.

"I think that's one of the weirdest things, being in a genre of music that is so defined and predetermined by one person," Martín Perna, the multi-instrumentalist who first dreamed up Antibalas in 1998, tells GRAMMY.com. "Even reggae artists don't all get compared to Bob Marley. I don't think anybody in any other genre is in the shadow of one person like people who play this music." (For those who wish to dig deeper, Perna recommends Geraldo Pino, Orchestre Poly-Rythmo de Cotonou and the Funkees; his bandmate, Duke Amayo, name-drops Orlando Julius.)

"It's been a weird thing," Perna continues. "I would have thought after 22 years that it would have expanded a little bit more."

Antibalas | Meet The First-Time GRAMMY Nominee

More than 20 years after Kuti's death in 1997, Afrobeat may soon expand radically in the public eye thanks to Antibalas. The group, who played their first gig half a year after Kuti's passing, has been nominated at the 2021 GRAMMYs Awards show in the newly renamed Best Global Music Album category for Fu Chronicles, which dropped last February on Daptone Records. Their first album to be solely written by lead singer and percussionist Amayo, its highlights, like "Lai Lai," "MTTT, Pt. 1 & 2" and "Fist of Flowers," partly derive their power from his other primary pursuit: kung fu.

A Nigerian-born multidisciplinarian who is a senior master at the Jow Ga Kung Fo School of martial arts, Amayo aims to find the nexus point between music, dance and martial arts. When he received the unexpected news that Antibalas had clinched their first-ever GRAMMY nomination after 20 years in the game, he launched into a dance of his own.

"I walked over to my girl and said, 'Check this out. Is this real?'" he recalls to GRAMMY.com with a laugh. "She Googled the GRAMMY nominations, and it was surreal. And then I did that usual thing where you shake your hips, violently doing the hip thrust back and forth. Then, I woke the whole house up screaming, as my daughter screamed with me for a minute or two."

GRAMMY.com spoke with Martín Perna and Duke Amayo about Antibalas' origin story, their decades-long rise as an outlier in Brooklyn and how their nomination could help introduce new listeners to Afrobeat.

These interviews have been edited and condensed for clarity.

How would you explain the vocabulary of someone like Fela Kuti to a person who's unfamiliar?

Martín Perna: Afrobeat is like musical architecture. It's a set of ingredients and musical relationships between those ingredients. All the instruments are talking to each other. They're all in dialogue, and these dialogues create dynamic tension in the music. Some instruments create a rigid structure, and others—vocals included—have much more free reign to improvise or solo.

Duke Amayo: I would describe it as a tonal language of the common Nigerian—or African—singing truth to power from a marginalized place. That is the window from where Fela Kuti was operating. He drew from observations around him and expressed them truthfully throughout his music. He is like the Bob Marley and the James Brown of Nigeria rolled into one.

Perna: Whereas the guitar might be playing the same five-note pattern without stopping for 20 minutes, the singer or keyboardist gets to improvise. Or, when the horns aren't playing the melodies, they get solos. It's both very rigid and very free, but it's a dynamic tension between the two.

In a nutshell, describe how Antibalas came up in the Brooklyn scene.

Perna: I was 22 when I dreamed this up, and a lot of it was just trying to create a scene that I wanted to be part of. At the time, I played with Sharon Jones—rest in peace—Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings. A bunch of the musicians were my colleagues in that band. The rest of the musicians came pretty much from the neighborhood—just people I knew who either had the chops or the interest to be in this band.

Amayo: I was living in Williamsburg, a neighborhood that embodied gentrification in record time. I was in the right place at the right time as I opened a clothing store/martial-arts dojo in my residence called the Afro-Spot. From here, I hosted many fashion shows, using Nigerian drummers to maintain an edge to my brand. This exposed me to musicians who wanted to make resistance music, if you will.

So that brought me in contact with Martín and [Daptone Records co-founder and former Antibalas guitarist] Gabe [Roth], who stopped in my store one day to hang. Eventually, they asked me to join the band. I started as a percussionist and then became the lead singer.

Perna: I wanted to make a band that was both a dance band and a protest band. Because you need so many people to make this music, it fulfilled that idea of being a band and a community. You need anywhere from 11 [musicians] on the small end; at our biggest shows, there have been 19 musicians on stage. So, already, you have a community of people.

Coming up in Brooklyn, did you have local peers in this style? Was there a scene?

Perna: No, there wasn't a scene. There were individuals—mostly West African guys a generation older than us—that had played with Fela or were part of some other African funk band in the '70s. But no, there weren't any peers at all.

Amayo: I would state that we were the scene.

How would you describe your vision for Fu Chronicles as opposed to past Antibalas albums?

Amayo: Fu Chronicles is a concept album written by only me. While the past albums have been written by different members employing the group dynamics of the time, my vision was to create a musical universe where African folklore and kung fu wisdom can coexist seamlessly, supporting each other in a harmonious flow.

The first song I composed [20 years ago], "MTTT," came from my intention to compose a timeless, logical song, expressing a new frontier in classical African music. I wanted to move the music forward by writing songs with two distinct-but-related bass and guitar lines and shape the grooves into a two-part form: yin and yang.

How did martial arts play into the album?

Amayo: I wanted to reimagine Afrobeat songs from a real kung fu practitioner's mindset. I'm a certified Jow Ga Kung Fu sifu, or master. I started studying kung fu in Nigeria as a young boy. The song "Fist of Flowers" describes the traditional form of Jow Ga Kung Fu that I teach. My rhythmic blocks are sometimes based on the shapes of my kung fu movements.

How did you learn about your GRAMMY nomination for Best Global Music Album?

Amayo: The first person who texted me was Kyle Eustice, [who interviewed me in 2020] for High Times. I didn't react at first. I walked over to my girl and said, "Check this out. Is this real?" She Googled the GRAMMY nominations, and it was surreal.

I did that usual thing where you shake your hips, violently doing the hip thrust back and forth, and quickly calmed down. Then I woke the whole house up screaming as my daughter screamed with me for a minute or two.

Perna: On my fridge, last year, when I set my goals and intentions, one of the five things [I wrote] was to win a GRAMMY. This year has been such a disappointment in so many ways, so it's exciting that at least we got, so far, the nomination.

This nomination serves as a punctuation mark on Antibalas's 20-plus-year career. How do you see the next 20 years?

Perna: Oh, gosh. I hope it provides some wind in our sails to continue to record and tour and grow our audience. It could be either a nice end to a beautiful history of the band, or something like I said: wind in our sails.

Amayo: I see the next 20 years of Antibalas as a flower in full growth, writing music to push the genre forward while maintaining excellence in the trade. We began as a bunch of guys in Brooklyn who wanted to make a change, make some noise, and be part of the revival of activist music.

And it's still as relevant as ever, demanding for justice movements like Black Lives Matter, Indigenous peoples' plight, and a more comprehensive education system based on truth ...

Perna: … To get this recommendation and this nod from the GRAMMYs, it's like, "Hey, everybody! Pay attention to this band! They made this amazing record, and you should listen to it!" That's something that propels us out of the world of just musicians listening to us. It feels good to get a little bit of wider recognition.

Amayo: I've been praising my wife ever since [the nomination]: "This is all mostly you." Because if she hadn't put a fire in me, I wouldn't have been able to make the right moves. It takes something to light it up for you, to believe you can get there.

Thus, my song, "Fight Am Finish," with the lyrics, "Never, ever let go of your dreams." I'm going to keep running. I'm going to keep my feet moving until I cross the finish line, you know what I mean?

Travel Around The World With The Best Global Music Album Nominees | 2021 GRAMMYs

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