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GRAMMYs

Jonas Brothers with GRAMMY U members

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Jonas Brothers Bring Happiness To GRAMMY U In NYC jonas-brothers-bring-happiness-grammy-u-soundchecks-new-york

Jonas Brothers Bring Happiness To GRAMMY U SoundChecks In New York

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The sibling trio, back in a bigger way than they ever imagined, drew from their collective two decades of industry experience during a Q & A with GRAMMY U students in Manhattan
Robbie Daw
GRAMMYs
Sep 9, 2019 - 11:01 am

"Make sure that if you do go into a management position or you work for a label, you do your best to align with the right people who will work as hard as you will work for them. That’s the standard we set with our team. We know how much effort goes into making this whole thing run.” -Nick Jonas

Those words hit the ears of 44 GRAMMY U members gathered to gain insight on the music industry during a SoundChecks event featuring the Jonas Brothers at legendary New York City venue Madison Square Garden on Thursday, Aug. 29.

If it sounds like oddly sage advice for a 26 year old, consider that Nick Jonas made his Broadway debut nearly 20 years ago, and released his first single at the age of 10.

Students from New York University, Pace, Baruch College, Emerson, Northeastern, Fordham, Rider, Stevens, Five Towns, Hofstra and University of New Haven not only watched as Nick, Joe and Kevin Jonas stood together at MSG for the first time since August 2008; they also jumped at the invitation from the band to join them onstage for a group photo.

Rubbing elbows with fans, of course, is part and parcel of being one of the most enduring pop acts to skyrocket out of the previous decade.

“It was something that built our career from very early on,” Joe Jonas explains to the Recording Academy backstage, ahead of the SoundChecks event. “Whether we would do meet-and-greets after every club show, in a gymnasium at somebody’s school–we would meet everybody. And those are the fans still coming to see us here at MSG. We’ve seen familiar faces for the last 11 shows we’ve done. We got to know their stories and hear about how the music helped them.”

It’s a strategy that paid off. During a lengthy hiatus that saw the brothers pursue individual projects, being accessible early in their career kept the band etched deeply in their audience’s collective consciousness. Happiness Begins, the first Jonas Brothers studio album in 10 years, debuted atop the Billboard 200 in June. It was the biggest debut from a group in 2019, with, according to Nielsen, a total consumption of 414K units, including 68 million streams. Likewise, inescapable lead single “Sucker” became their first single to hit No. 1 on the Billboard Hot 100. It landed the trio the MTV VMA for Best Pop Video in August, the same month their sprawling Happiness Begins Tour kicked off.

“It definitely wasn’t up to me. I was just the first to raise my hand and say, ‘I’m ready to do this again’,” Nick said to the Recording Academy of the band’s reunion. “Certain benchmarks I’d set out to accomplish on my own, I did. But there was a magic missing from it that I had with my brothers. After a few shows of throwing in a Jonas Brother song here and there, I realized there was still an appetite for it, as well. We’d done enough work as brothers and family that we could do this again, and it could be the healthy version [of the band], which was the most important thing to all of us. Once we had those conversations and began that journey, we all said we were ready to give this another go.”

Later, during the Q & A with GRAMMY U students, Joe planted his tongue in cheek and quipped, “Really it started with Nick–he broke up the band, and then he got the band back together. He gets to take all the credit, really.”

Family healing (and teasing) aside, Nick, Joe and Kevin knew that in order to succeed again with this project, they’d have to mesh the sounds they’d individually explored during their solo endeavors and evolve as a band to an industry landscape that has rapidly changed over the decade since the release of the brothers' previous album.

Sold out show at Madison Square Garden. Can’t beat it. Thank you NYC!! #HappinessBeginsTour pic.twitter.com/RKfVWpK6Co

— Jonas Brothers (@jonasbrothers) August 30, 2019

“It wasn’t until we worked with Ryan Tedder and Greg Kurstin that I think we cracked that code,” Nick explained during the SoundChecks event. “Probably the first song that really broke the ice in a sense was ‘Sucker,’ which Tedder had started with [co-producer] Frank Dukes prior to showing it to us. What he said to us is that he wanted to record it really bad, but didn’t feel like it was right for OneRepublic.”

Nick admitted that they wouldn’t have been as open to recording outside material in the days when they were riding the charts with their own compositions, like “Burnin’ Up.” But this is just one of the industry shifts they've adapted to, along with the advent of streaming, the dominance of social media platforms such as Instagram and uh, the rise in face tattoos–a trend Kevin joked he and his brothers missed out on.

“Way more face tattoos than there were in 2005,” Joe deadpanned to the GRAMMY U crowd. “There’s still time.”

From a fan perspective, perhaps the most significant way their idols have grown is that all three brothers have gotten married. Kevin, so far the only band member to have children, offered up the same advice to those contemplating a career in the music business that he’d give his own kids.

“This year one of my biggest moments is [my daughters] getting to see me play for the first time, so it’s a huge win,” he told the Recording Academy. “Seeing that joy in their eyes, I can understand how a young person would want to do this for themselves. So I would hope that whoever is going into this world knows that it does take hard work, and not just expect it to happen." 

Kevin underscored how the Jonas Brothers' long journey took many twists and turns before landing on the iconic MSG stage.

"We played years of New York City, New Jersey, Connecticut and Boston club shows before we ever stepped on a stage that had a real PA," he said. "We grinded it out, and that’s what it is.”

BTS Shine At GRAMMY U SoundChecks In Chicago

Lauv at GRAMMY U x 2020 GRAMMY Week event

Lauv at GRAMMY U x GRAMMY Week

Photo: Araya Doheny

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Lauv Advises GRAMMY U On Authenticity & More lauv-gets-real-focusing-doing-most-authentic-thing-you-most-important

Lauv Gets Real: "Focusing On Doing The Most Authentic Thing To You Is The Most Important"

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"The thing I was missing was that people want authenticity," the 25-year-old D.I.Y. pop hero said during an exclusive 2020 GRAMMY Week event
Ana Monroy Yglesias
Membership
Feb 10, 2020 - 2:33 pm

For the first-ever official GRAMMY U x GRAMMY Week event, independent pop champ Lauv treated the young Recording Academy members to an intimate look into his rise to fame, creative process and how he's found his voice and confidence along the way. The lively conversation was led by powerhouse producer Jennifer Decilveo in Studio V of the famed Village Studios in Los Angeles and followed by some more great questions from the audience.

These lucky attendees (the program was exclusively for current GRAMMY U members) not only went home with big smiles and bellies full of free tacos and iced coffee, they also went home with some big takeaways to apply to their own journeys within music. Read on to explore the five major points for yourself, brought to you by the thoughtful, creative mind of the "Tattoos Together" singer.

Importance Of Authenticity

Speaking to his experience of writing songs for others and struggling to really gain traction at first, 25-year-old artist revealed what changed the game for him.

"The thing I was missing was that people want authenticity," he explained, adding that he was writing what he thought people wanted to sing instead of real stories from his own experiences. "I spent all this time trying to pitch my songwriting and it wasn't until I released my own song that I got noticed."

In 2015, he dropped his first single, "The Other," followed by his catchy 2017 global hit "I Like Me Better"—one of the songs he wrote about his first experience of falling in love while at N.Y.U. Lauv's honest, raw, lover-of-love personality has since come through front and center in his music. For example, "I Like Me Better" opens with: "To be young and in love in New York City / To not know who I am but still know that I'm good long as you're here with me."

Later in the conversation, during the audience Q&A, a student asked advice on how to break out in world already filled with so much content and creators. "Focusing on doing the most authentic thing to you is the most important," Lauv answered. If you do something that connects with people, they'll share it, he assured. He explained how he used to spend a lot more time trying to figure out how to promote himself, which he now understands is better spent on exploring how to be his most authentic self.

Related: Lauv On "F**k, I'm Lonely," Staying Independent, Mental Health & More

Lauv's Production 101: Weird Sounds + An 808

Attendees got a fun look into the producer side of Lauv's mind. He shared that the first beat he'd made in Abelton was for his 2019 hit with Anne-Marie, "f***, i'm lonely." Sharing the screen of his laptop, Lauv broke down its elements within the production software. With this example, he also explained the basic foundations with which he builds his tracks: starting with weird sounds and building the chords around it. Oh, and some 808 drums.

Before he'd even written the lyrics, he built the base of this track's catchy sound in Abelton, with Splice Loops, a sample of his voice and his favorite 808 drum. He arranged it in Logic, as he finds its interface more…logical. So, with "f***, i'm lonely," he created the beat first—while on tour in Asia with Ed Sheeran—and the lyrics came later, inspired by a conversation with friends and collaborators, songwriters Michael Matosic and Michael Pollack.

After returning Stateside after the tour, Lauv rented out a large, strange house in West Hollywood, Calif. and was feeling lonely. He expressed this to Matosic and Pollack, who encouraged him to write a song about—the trio wrote it then and there, in the creepy mansion. While he feels the lyrics are not his deepest, he underscores they come from a real emotion, an honest, authentic feeling. Seeing as the music video alone has amassed over 25 million views on YouTube in just six months, it has hit the pop world right in the feels.

Watch: Behind The Board: Producer/Songwriter Jennifer Decilveo On Making Records With Truth & Trust

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3Pjhz7gJIs

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Content Not Available

Write More & Challenge Perfectionism

In addition to getting exposure to Sheeran's massive overseas audience and the beat for ""f***, i'm lonely," Lauv also gleaned some pop star wisdom while touring with the "Shape Of You" singer. He explains that Sheeran writes about seven songs a day, working through them and waiting until he's finished to decide if their good or not. If there are any pieces of gold in the drafts, he'll go back and work more on them. As for the less lustrous ones, he just moves on rather than making sure every song draft has to go somewhere.

Instead of obsessing and laboring over something to make it perfect, where self-doubt or over-work can often take over, relishing in the process of creativity and just getting the thoughts and feelings out can be really powerful. Seeing this in action helped Lauv reflect on and reimagine his own creative flow, which he acknowledges he has a tendency to get stuck in overthinking things.

More GRAMMY U: BTS Shine At GRAMMY U SoundChecks In Chicago

https://twitter.com/lauvsongs/status/1225671900392636417

why does identity need to be a box
when it could be a web

— lauv (@lauvsongs) February 7, 2020

Embrace ALL Of Yourself…

Another great GRAMMY U member question was about determining your brand as an artist.

"Overthinking can really ruin you," Lauv mused, noting how he used to spend too much time caught up in singular decisions. He, like many young popstars standing in the spotlight on their own terms, is a perfect example that you don't have to just be one marketable thing to be a successful artist.

He explained how, when he would meet with music labels, they would ask what his special thing was. This question was understandably perplexing, but he decided, "Okay, I'm the hopeless romantic." This "one thing" is obviously not fully representative of all the facets of who he is—none of us are one-dimensional characters—and puts a strange pressure to over-exaggerate one element of ourselves and essentially erase the others.

The "Changes" singer took this idea and flipped it on his head, forming "a one-man boyband" with six different, exaggerated versions of himself, each represented by a different color. This cute and quirky representation of Lauv is featured and celebrated within the songs and visuals for his upcoming debut studio album, ~how i’m feeling~. The 21-track LP officially drops on March 6, although nine of them are already out in the wild.

Even More GU: Jonas Brothers Bring Happiness To GRAMMY U SoundChecks In New York

…Even The Blue Parts

Last April, Lauv shared a very powerful personal note on social media about his struggles with anxiety, depression and obsessive thoughts, which eventually led him to seek help and try medications. He received an outpouring of support from his huge global fan base, as well as from the larger music community. With his Blue Boy Foundation and MyBlueThoughts.world, Lauv is reaching out to others who face depression and other mental health issues, reminding all of us that we aren't alone.

"There's so much shame around needing to take a medication for your brain," Lauv said, explaining how he had always been resistant to taking mental health meds, even as he was going through a really difficult time.

He told the audience how grateful he was for his friends and family encouraging him to talk to a therapist. It wasn't until then, with the support of a medical professional, that he was really able to start working through his debilitating thought patterns.

Last year, as he began his personal mental health journey, he also sought out more ways to help others, even beyond the much-needed representation of an emotionally honest and vulnerable public figure. He generated $100,000 last year for the Blue Boy Foundation, which he launched with the proceeds from the song he wrote while feeling emotionally stuck in darkness, "Sad Forever."

Another student question was around the leave-a-thought boxes he has had at shows in the past, where fans could write down what they were feeling. He revealed that, in partnership with Microsoft, he has built the idea out into a little "confessional" booth at shows, where fans can record an anonymous message. All these now live on a blue map at mybluethoughts.world, where anyone can read them, as well as share their own.

As Lauv explores and shares his true self in this messy, confusing world we live in, he is setting a beautiful example of how to connect and relate with others around the world, something we all really need more of right now.

WATCH: Justin Bieber's "INTENTIONS" Video Tells Empowering Stories Of Women After Homelessness

GRAMMYs

RAINNE

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Meet L.A. Dark-Pop Duo RAINNE meet-rainne-las-dark-pop-duo-meteoric-rise

Meet RAINNE: L.A.'s Dark-Pop Duo On A Meteoric Rise

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Inside their journey from GRAMMY Camp and GRAMMY U to the Hollywood Bowl opening for some of music's biggest stars and the event that raised over $450k for MusiCares
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Dec 20, 2019 - 4:09 pm

Even if you aren't yet familiar with RAINNE, the L.A.-based duo consisting of singer/songwriter Annie Dingwall and saxophonist/engineer Justin Klunk, you're definitely familiar with the artists they opened for on Oct. 19 at "We Can Survive" at the Hollywood Bowl: Taylor Swift, Lizzo, Camila Cabello, the Jonas Brothers, Billie Eilish, Becky G, Halsey, and Marshmello. So how did they get there?

The short answer is RAINNE was selected out of over 14,000 artists who entered the Opening Act contest, 97.1 AMP Radio, and Radio.com, ultimately winning the grand prize opening slot on the bill and $10,000. Remarkably, the event also raised a whopping $450,000 for MusiCares  toward its efforts to ensure music people have a place to turn in times of financial, medical and personal need.

The long answer stretches back nearly a decade, to when Dingwall and Klunk first met as part of the GRAMMY Museum's GRAMMY Camp music industry program for high school students. Their journey to the Hollywood Bowl stage also went through GRAMMY U, the Recording Academy's university network for college students, and USC's Popular Music Program, which they both attended.

Now, with the momentum of their Hollywood Bowl debut and a string of infections singles like "Psycho Killer," Hollow" and the newly released "Sin," RAINNE are just getting started. The Recording Academy caught up with the rising dark-pop duo to hear about their experience at "We Can Survive," the evolution of their sound and more…

First of all – for the uninitiated – tell us more about RAINNE's music. Where do you feel your unique dark-pop comes from?

Dingwall: It has definitely been a journey to find our own sound. Both Justin and I have a wide array of music influences, so it’s been fun to draw our favorite aspects from those different genres and incorporate them in our music. From a songwriting perspective, the songs we put out all have a couple common threads that weave them together – both musically and lyrically – and darker sounds and lyrics are definitely one of those motifs that define our sound.

Klunk: Our music and ‘voices’ have been evolving since we met, and this is where we feel the most comfortable expressing ourselves right now. 

That's right, you met at GRAMMY Camp. What do you remember about the program and has it helped you in your career?

Klunk: Personally, GRAMMY Camp was a major part of my musical education. Prior to the camp, I was really oblivious to the other jobs and responsibilities involved with putting on a show, or creating a record. The only thing on my mind was to play the saxophone, and the camp really opened eyes to the industry. It was inspiring for me to see while I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do for a living. And the program still affects us to this day. We keep in touch with a bunch of GRAMMY Camp alumnus, and it’s great to see how everyone is pursuing and thriving in their own endeavors.

In January, I’m actually going to be a part of the GRAMMY In The Schools Alumni band, so that’ll be a ton of fun to see some familiar faces.

Dingwall: I don’t think I realized back then just how impactful going to GRAMMY Camp would be on my life and career. It was a huge part of my musical foundation and introduction to Los Angeles – and introduced me to my best friend and band mate! I am so grateful to have met and worked with so many amazing people at Camp and so happy that they continue to be a part of our lives.

After GRAMMY Camp, how did you two start RAINNE?

Dingwall: RAINNE was a long time coming for us. After Camp, through college, and for a good time after graduation, Justin and I were playing shows together, but at the same time pursuing our own solo interests and projects. Justin released a few instrumental saxophone EPs and toured with Ariana Grande, Saint Motel, and many others, and I released some solo material and was writing for other artists and tv/film projects, but all the while we continued playing shows together. I think over the years we both felt the most comfortable and creative when performing together, and decided that we wanted to do that more than any of the other things we had going on. We decided to become a band a couple years ago and haven’t looked back since.

As a duo, how do you like to work together? What's your songwriting and production process?

Klunk: Our approach to the band is to utilize each other’s strengths and pick up the slack where one of us may fall short. We each bring a different set of skills to the band that compliment each other very well. Historically Annie has been the main songwriter for the group and I have focused more on the live band arrangements, but as we grow we are both becoming heavily involved in every aspect of the band. We have teamed up with amazing producers who understand the sound we are trying to achieve and help us make recordings we are proud to share with the world.

https://twitter.com/BTWHSPVA/status/1181611610479177729

They did it! RAINNE will be performing at the Hollywood Bowl on October 19, 2019 opening for Taylor Swift, Lizzo, Billie Eilish, The Jonas Brothers, Marshmello, Camila Cabello, and Becky G at the We Can Survive concert!!! pic.twitter.com/jJMKAU0UOK

— Booker T. Washington HSPVA (@BTWHSPVA) October 8, 2019

I also understand you participated in GRAMMY U. What was your experience like?

Klunk: GRAMMY U was wonderful. We got to attend and participate in a ton of events while we were in college – even a battle of the bands. There were even a few GRAMMY Career Days we was able to participate in, which were a blast. The various panels in L.A. and at the GRAMMY Museum were really great to check out.

Dingwall: The opportunity learn directly from successful people in the industry is something that not everyone has access to, and we were grateful to be a part of an organization that afforded us those possibilities.

How did you get involved with the Opening Act contest for "We Can Survive," and what do you think set you apart from the thousands of entrants?

Dingwall: Funny enough, Justin saw an ad for the competition on Instagram. He entered us and didn’t tell me about it until a few days afterwards. To be honest, we thought it was such a long shot, but we ended up progressing through the multiple rounds and when we got into the Top 16, we thought “Hey! Someone from the Top 16 has to win – and that someone could be us!”. The outpouring of love and support we received throughout this whole process was amazing and incredible. We are so honored and grateful to everyone who helped us get to the Hollywood Bowl. Not only that, but a portion of the votes was donated to MusiCares – which is an organization we fully support and had been involved with in the past. They do amazing things for the music community and we are happy to contribute in any way that we can. “We Can Survive” is a really special night at the Bowl and we loved to be a part of such a magical night supporting a great cause.

https://twitter.com/weRAINNE/status/1186776514374668288

WOW. There aren’t enough words to describe the amount of love that was felt and shared by so many people that we love. This was a DREAM COME TRUE and we are so thankful to everyone who made this moment possible.
Huge thank you to @OpeningAct2019 @971AMPRadio @Radiodotcom pic.twitter.com/NbU5X9ZJrY

— RAINNE (@weRAINNE) October 22, 2019

How did it feel performing at the Hollywood Bowl, especially on such a stacked bill. Any surprising moments?

Klunk: It was INCREDIBLE! We were obviously a bit nervous; not only was it an iconic stage, but a ridiculously stacked lineup. We just made sure to over-prepare during our rehearsal process so that we were ready for any curveball that could come our way. We found that the entire production team and staff were the kindest people ever, and they really treated us just like any of the other artists or bands on the bill. Words can’t describe how smooth they made that process and how welcomed they made us feel. 

With such a prolific and successful 2019 behind you now, what's next for RAINNE in 2020?

Dingwall: We are definitely looking forward to seeing what is in store for us in 2020. Right now we have big plans to release tons of new music and grow our fanbase.

Klunk: We also really want to tour and play even more shows than we played this year. We’d love to be opening for another artist on the road. Our shared love for performing is what got us started and we want to continue sharing that with as many people as possible! 

Meet The Real Ironman: Michael McDonald To Race On Behalf Of MusiCares

GRAMMYs

Sierra Lever

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Music Marketer Sierra Lever Is :NEXT next-sierra-lever-rising-music-marketer-talks-artist-storytelling-kendrick-lamar-more

:NEXT With Sierra Lever: The Rising Music Marketer Talks Artist Storytelling, Kendrick Lamar & More

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The future industry leader and Associate Marketing Director at Columbia Records opens up about how 'Good Kid, M.A.A.D City' inspired her to champion artists' stories and pursue a career in music
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Nov 11, 2019 - 1:31 pm

Meet Sierra Lever, a young music professional primed to make waves in the industry. As Associate Marketing Director at Columbia Records, she already has worked on such major releases as Tyga, Polo G, Chloe X Halle, Chase B, and previously at Motown Records on Migos, Stefflon Don, Zaytoven, and more. She's also featured in the latest episode of :NEXT, the Recording Academy’s new digital short-run series featuring the future of the music industry.

Music Marketer Sierra Lever Is :NEXT

Her journey began back home in Portland, where she put on parties to showcase local talent. She began booking more artists, big artists, such as Too $hort and Big Krit on her college campus. Her DIY spirit and interest in the behind-the-scenes workings of the music business led to her joining GRAMMY U and eventually taking an internship in the Recording Academy, where she worked in the Awards department and the Executive Office.

This wide range of experience helped illuminate Sierra's path into marketing, where she could learn how to tell artists' stories in a way that helps spread the word about their music. And while going to a Spice Girls concert as a little girl that lit the initial spark of Sierra's interest in music, it was a seminal hip-hop album that showed her the way to a career in the industry.

"Kendrick Lamar's Good Kid, M.A.A.D City was the album that really inspired me to enter into the music industry," she said. "[It] really tells his story. And it connected to me, and it connected to so many, It really represented the pressures of our environment that we live in… the minute I listened to it, it was on repeat. There's really no skips for this album. It's very thematic. It has all these different themes from the Bible to street violence to love and lust, all those different elements."

Sierra felt she was part of something when she listened to that album. Not content to be just a fan, she wanted to share that sense of belonging. She drew inspiration from the artists she loved and channeled those storytelling concepts into her own career on the business side of music.

"You have to be a student of the game," she said. "That is what really shows. You see these artists and you see how them studying the game really translates to their evolution over time, and I feel like that's the same for me working as a professional in music, [finding my] individuality [and] really taking risks."

Sierra first heard about :NEXT as an intern at the Academy. As her eligibility for GRAMMY U was coming to a close, Lever thought it'd be the perfect segue into a professional career. She was right.

"The best part about being a 'Nexter' is really being able to connect with your peers and see your peers evolve. That is a big thing for me, to be able to support each other, to know that you do have a support system," she said, adding, "We have panels, we have these industry vets that we get to have that face time with and connection with."

Sierra also talks fondly of her mentor, Recording Academy Washington D.C. Chapter Executive Director Jeriel Johnson. "He is someone who is really connected in the urban [music] space, someone who is a leader within it. I identified with him in the sense of, this is where I want to go and where I want to grow," she said.

"The most valuable lesson I learned from him is to always try," Sierra said. "Always go with your foot forward in the sense of, 'I'm learning and I'm going to be successful.'"

Now, Lever is striving to pursue her dreams in the music industry, and being a part of :NEXT has helped her stay on course. She compares the support she's received—and given to her fellow young music professionals—to that of a family.

"I will say this: The GRAMMYs, they are a family to me. There are so many people who have seen me evolve over time," Sierra says.

Her long-term vision is to continue to tell artists' stories, and she's off to a great start. She puts it best when asked what else she's learned from Johnson,  her :NEXT mentor, about being successful in music:

"When you strive for success, you never fail, you just learn."

:NEXT With Scott Michael Smith: The Innovative Producer/Mixer On Taking Risks, Steve Reich & More

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Shura

Photo by Hollie Fernando

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Shura Tells Her Modern Love Story On 'Forevher' shura-tells-her-modern-love-story-forevher

Shura Tells Her Modern Love Story On 'Forevher'

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The U.K.-born pop singer/producer talks to the Recording Academy about moving overseas for love, how it inspired her gorgeous sophomore effort 'forevher' and why this feels like her "first record as an adult woman"
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Aug 15, 2019 - 4:23 pm

Shura didn't intend to fall in love with a woman an ocean away—like all love stories, it just sort of happened.

In the time after her 2016 debut, Nothing's Real, the British pop performer began to realize that having a traditional Tinder account was no longer an option, with her own show attendees screencapping her profile and posting it to Twitter, among other embarrassments. So she signed up for the considerably more private dating app, Raya, which heavily vets its users and posits itself as "an exclusive platform for people in creative industries."

During a phone call to talk about her upcoming sophomore album, forevher (out Aug. 16 via Secretly Canadian), Shura, whose real name is Aleksandra Denton, emits a sniff of laughter at the idea of being one of the dating elite ("I'm on it and my girlfriend's on it, and she's not famous," she says). But her experiment would prove successful: Once she began swiping on Raya, Shura met her now-partner, who was and is currently based in New York. After months of chatting, Shura flew to the city for a first date. Now, two years later, she's a permanent resident of the Big Apple, and her relationship informs much of her softly soulful sophomore album, which is home to the synth-splashed, Janet Jackson-esque single "religion (u can lay your hands on me)."

In many ways, forevher also represents a victory lap for Shura, who, even as recently as a few years ago, wouldn't have felt comfortable using same-sex pronouns in her songs. But the "her" in "forevher" is quite purposeful, as is its Rodin-inspired blue imagery of two women embracing. "I remember when I put out Nothing's Real... In the pop sphere there really wasn't a queer woman that I could think of, other than people who had also already been around for a while," Shura tells the Recording Academy. "So, Tegan and Sara, maybe you have Hayley Kiyoko as well. But now we have King Princess, we have lots of non-binary artists. The indie-pop world, it's just so much queerer than it was when I first put out a record. I don't feel like the only gay in the village anymore."

On the cusp of releasing forevher, Shura sat down with the Recording Academy to delve further into the story behind her latest effort—which is co-produced with Joel Pott and features collaborations with Jagwar Ma's Jona Ma, Whitney's Will Miller and more—and why this feels like her "first record as an adult woman."

When did you begin to write forevher in earnest?

I began as soon as I finished touring. I wasn't seriously planning anything. It was just about getting back into the groove of writing. No pressure to think about anything in terms of an entire record.

Then, I guess about summer of, maybe spring, summer of last year, I'd written enough songs to really go, "Okay, there's a body of work here, a story that I feel like I can get a handle on what the story is that I want to tell." And I began in the summer of last year, the recording. Kind of approached it, actually, in a very different way than the first record.

[The first record] was done like, I would write a song and finish producing it, and then move on to the next song. Whereas this was much more like, write a bunch of things, and then go, "Okay, what do I have here?" And then go in.

Did you primarily record in the States, or were you in London?

No, because earlier, I made it primarily in London. It was just about me going to the States.

I did some writing in L.A., actually, with Orlando Higginbottom, whose artist name is Totally Enormous Extinct Dinosaurs. But that was the only writing that I did in the States for this record. I bizarrely made more of this record in the U.K. than the last one.

Forevher is about your forming a long-distance relationship with your current partner. When did you guys originally connect?

Yeah, so we met on a dating app when I was physically in Minneapolis, and my partner was in New York at the time. So we weren't close to one another, even then. And we met because she had said, "If you're swinging by New York on your way back to London, then maybe we should hang out."

But you know, I wasn't really swinging by anywhere. I'd just wrapped up finished touring. I was like, "I need to go home. See my parents and my cat, and my twin, but sure." So we began talking. It wasn't like an every day sort of thing. We would just occasionally share funny things that had happened.

And I guess gradually, we were just talking more and more frequently. For four months it slowly developed to this quite intense relationship. It wasn't sexual, of course. It was an intellectual one. That's the funny thing about it. Because it wasn't Tinder. It was an app called Raya.

Yeah, I just learned about that one. My coworker was telling me how she spotted like, Owen Wilson and Ben Affleck on there! Isn’t it where all the celebs hang?

Well, apparently. Except I'm on it and my girlfriend's on it, and she's not famous.

You have to give your Instagram handle. You go through an approval thing. It's based on whether or not you're verified, or verified people follow you. You know, it's kind of ridiculous.

I think everyone can get on it. If her and I can get on it, it can't be that bad. But I only got on it because I was at my own gig in Boston, and I hadn't even opened my Tinder. Because I wouldn't, at a gig, that would be weird.

But because I was physically in the vicinity, people found my Tinder profile and screen-shotted it, and shared it on Twitter and being like, "I hope we're going to meet." Or like, "I hope we're going to match." And I was like, "Oh my God, I need to get off this."

And I was like, "Okay, I've got to get off of this." And I told a friend, and they told me about Raya, which I found it so hilarious. I was like, well, I have to apply. It's just so funny.

Like a week or two later, after I'd applied, I was accepted. I was like, "Holy sh*t. This is what I'm going to spend the next hour in the tour van, looking at. This going to be so fun!"

So the point that I was getting across is, because it's for wildly famous or successful people, in theory. They don't show you people who are necessarily physically close to you. Because I'm guessing the assumption is that you're so successful that you can afford to fly to L.A. You could go anywhere on your private jet, or whatever it is. I wasn't wealthy enough or successful enough to be able to fly on a private jet to go on a first date. So it meant that we just had to talk, in a way that I guess you wouldn't on Tinder, because it shows you people that are close.

So you have to, after a couple of weeks go, "Should we go on a date?" We just slowly developed this relationship. I think once we got to the stage where we were talking on the phone more or less every day, and three, four, five hours at a time, I was like, "We should probably see if this is gonna work in real life, because it's taking up a lot of my emotional energy, and obviously, just a lot of my time."

So I just invented a reason to go to New York. I thought, maybe I can take a couple of meetings, and hit up some of my friends, just in case. And I flew to New York, for this date and arranged lots of other things just in case it went really badly. But it went really well. And here I am, two years later with a record about meeting someone on a dating app and then moving to a different country.

Wow. So have you officially moved to the States?

Yeah, yeah. I moved to New York in November of last year.

How are you liking it?

I love it. Which is really weird, because I hated it when I first went. I hated New York and I loved L.A., because L.A. is immediately appealing. There are palm trees, and the weather's great. And New York was kind of weird, because it was either too hot or too cold, and everyone was cross at you. In England, if someone's cross at you, they're going to apologize. You bump into someone, they'll be like, "Sorry." Even though you bumped into them. Whereas in America, if you bump into someone, they'd be like, "What the f**k are you doing, you f**king asshole?" And I'm like, "I'm sorry! I didn't see you!"

But once you sort of peel away the layers of New York, it has this real energy that's like no other city I've ever been in. I mean, for Christ's sake, it also of course helps that I fell in love there. You can't not fall in love with the place in which you're falling in love. Which is kind of weird to be that person that's being like, "Oh, America's really great!" at a time where everyone else was like, "F**k the Americans!" It's mad! So yeah, it's been quite a weird backdrop to a queer love story.

Well, in looking at your description of the album and its lead single, “religion (u can lay your hands on me),” I’d love it if you could elaborate a bit on how you’re approaching the concept of religion and Christianity here.

I think there's a few things going on. Frankly, there's this rich history, in general, with pop music playing around with religion that I enjoy. Whether it's the iconography or toying around with it lyrically. So it's just fun to me to explore that and be, "This is my contribution to that tradition," shall we say.

Especially, if you think of me being a devotee of, to use a religious phrase, Madonna. And I think it's sort of my way of honoring that tradition. But also, the language that we use around love is very close to the language we use around religion.

Whether it's "I believe in love" in the same way that you believe in God. It's a type of faith and the act of devotion. Something that we say, we devote ourselves to someone that we love, and the physical act of laying your hands on someone. It's something that you would do during sex.

But also it could be in religion. It's something you might do to bless someone or to heal someone. So there's me, just having fun a little bit with that and other factors.

I've always been really interested in religion. I very nearly studied theology instead of English literature, because I just found it fascinating that in every culture there is a kind of religion. Which is kind of hilarious, because I'm an atheist and always have been. But you know, to be fascinated in that and especially being a woman and being queer, two things that don't often get treated well. Like women, since the dawn of time have gotten a bit f**ked over because you know, in Christianity, the prime example of a woman is a mother and a virgin. Which is kind of a physical impossibility. From that point on, we're a bit f**ked.

Yeah, there's not a lot of gray area where women are concerned in the Bible.

Yeah. So I think just something that I'm interested in. I think love is kind of absurd if you think about it. Like the idea of being with one person forever, is kind of absurd. But that's how I love. That's how I do it. If I am to be with someone, it's because I think I'm going to be with them forever, even though all the evidence points to the contrary.

And I think there's something about religion that's also absurd, and that we believe that most every culture has a belief system, where we go, there's someone bigger than us that does everything and knows everything. And I think it's just playing around with the absurdity of humans and being human and love and faith is a big part of that.

Hopefully I want it to be kind of done in a fun way and also a funny way. I really, on this record more than the last one, I wanted to make people cry, but I also wanted to make people laugh, and feel joy. There was a lot of me in that first record, but I feel like in general, my personality gets across better in this record, in the fact that I am a deep thinker, but also a bit of a joker. And a bit, I like to kind of play around with things and have fun.

Yeah, forevher has a soulful quality that I think was missing on your debut. When you mention how you are with someone, specifically the way you enter a relationship believing in the concept of forever—even though all the evidence points to the contrary—is that where the title of the record comes from?

Yes, well, it's a combination of things. Firstly, the idea that we love forever, in a sense. Or the idea of the ultimate love, or the one true love, is someone you would love forever. But you know, it stemmed, or the reason I started thinking about that as a title, was because of the song "Forever," which isn't spelled with an "H." I rhymed "together" and "forever." Which is like the biggest no-no in songwriting history. Because it's so obvious that the point in doing that, I think, was to point out the absurdity of it.

And I think in the middle of it, I start talking about the sun crashing into the sea, and leaving us in the dark forever. When I'm saying "I'm gonna love you forever," I don't want it to be just this saccharin, cheesy thing. I want it to be like, "Oh, there's an absurdity to it, or a sense of humor to it." But forevher, the title, and the way that I spell it with the pronoun, arose because it was a mix of, well, her. My partner.

So much of it has to do with that. But then also it's a mix of, "for-her, forever, and forever-her." I think because I really made a conscious choice on this record to use pronouns in a way that I hadn't done before. It felt important to specify that in the title.

My first record was queer. If you watch the music videos and it's queer as f**k. But this record, lyrically, is more explicitly queer.

Yeah, I think that’s been in the conversation more recently. That artists, if they do identify as queer, they’re more likely to use the pronouns of their choice. And that probably would not have been the case, say, 10 years ago.

Even five years ago! I remember when I put out Nothing's Real... In the pop sphere there really wasn't a queer woman that I could think of, other than people who had also already been around for a while. So, Tegan and Sara, maybe you have Hayley Kiyoko as well. But now we have King Princess, we have lots of non-binary artists. The indie-pop world, it's just so much queerer than it was when I first put out a record. I don't feel like the only gay in the village anymore.

Absolutely. And as far as the album cover goes, that feels like it adheres much more closely to your identity as well. Would you say that’s true?

Yeah. I felt that this record was a more certainly musically mature record. And I think I felt like I wanted that to be visible just from the artwork and stuff. I always joke that my first record was kind of like the soundtrack to a John Hughes movie that was never made.

[For this record] I wanted to use photography and illustration to have that childish, teenage vibe. And this felt like my first record as an adult woman. And so yeah, I knew from the beginning that I wanted it to be, to feel vastly different.

I remember talking with a friend of mine, he's a brilliant photographer, Hollie Fernando, about wanting to recreate a classic image of love with women. And we were talking about the Rodin sculpture, "The Kiss," which is one of the most classic examples of erotic love in art.

I remember saying, "Well, how would you feel about recreating that and doing a photograph?" It was very important to me, even at that stage, of it not being just a straight photograph. I wanted to go through another process. I really want to print it as an aristograph, which is the the style of printing that just feels sort of nostalgic and almost going to make something look like an oil painting, rather than just a photograph. 

What I didn't know was that the image that we used for the cover, I didn't know that that was what it was going to be. I'd thought it would be very obvious, and it would be a wide shot where you can really clearly see what we were doing. And now, actually, the cover is kind of quite mysterious. You wouldn't necessarily know it was two women until you open it up, and it's unveiled to be two women.

I felt like that was a really nice representation, aesthetically, of the music. Because it's a very queer record that you could completely miss with queer, somehow. Especially if you don't listen to the lyrics. That's the first thing I listen to, is lyrics. But a lot of people are all about melody and the music. 

I'm just so struck by [the cover], how blue is such a promiscuous color. And I don't mean that it sleeps with a lot of people. It means so many different things to different people, to different cultures. For some people it symbolizes depression or loneliness. For others it's love or royalty or holiness. And I just really loved how blue that blue made me feel. It kind of feels like longing and maybe it's something to do with the ocean and the distance between us. I look at it, and it feels like there's this halo around her head. We might see Mary and religious imagery, which tied in with some of the religious themes.

But it's this kind of desire for the eternal that I really got from that color in that dimension. And I think that's what we strive for and when we are in love, it's this weird desire for things to last forever. There's a song on forevher called "tommy," which very explicitly deals with the notion of forever, and foreverness, and the desire for the eternal, and death.

Yeah, you mentioned working with Hollie Fernando... Speaking of collaborators, you also have so many on this record Orlando from T-E-E-D, Jona Ma from Jaguar Ma. How did you connect with everyone?

So Joel Pott, I wrote a lot of this record with him. We co-produced it together, which is why I still made it in London. So that was fairly easy because we'd worked together before.

With Whitney, I had just worked with Will, who plays trumpet for Whitney. I just fell in love with that record. When I was writing "princess leia," decided I wanted to have a brass arrangement, because there's a moment where I'm talking about, I was on a plane and a dead soldier was taken off the plane, and I saw that, and there was a brass band. Whitney's [also] signed to Secretly Canadian. So they just introduced us and I sent him the track and I said I'd really love for you to just do your thing on it. I didn't give him too much direction. As a fan, I trusted him. And when I got it back, I just remember crying and just thinking it was so wonderful. And why hadn't I ever learned to play the horn?

With Orlando [from Totally Enormous Extinct Dinosaurs], he'd just put out a song, I think, on SoundCloud called "Leave A Light On," that I couldn't stop listening to. And it's very rare for me to reach out to people, like just slide into the DMs. But I did. I just DMed him and was like, "Hi, this song is so beautiful, I can't stop listening to it. If I were to ever be in L.A. for writing, would you like to try some things?" And we spent three days together and wrote four or five songs, two of which made the record. So that was just very exciting.

And then, there's a chorus of incredible women: Rosie Lowe, Kerry Leatham and Reva from NIMMO. They're friends of mine too. They just happen to be really brilliant vocalists.

And I mean, I've obviously been a big fan of Jaguar Ma. I'm so lucky to have, like, slid into the DMs of people who I'm a big fan of and have them be receptive. Some DMs, you don't get a response. So these are the ones that came off.

Well, it never hurts to ask.

I have this thing, "Don't ask, don't get." The worst thing that someone can say is no, and the world's not gonna end if that happens. 

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