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James Blake

James Blake

Photo: Recording Academy

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James Blake On 'Assume Form,' André 3000 & His Dad james-blake-assume-form-collabs-dream-come-true-grammy-museum

James Blake On 'Assume Form' Collabs: "A Dream Come True" | GRAMMY Museum

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The GRAMMY-winning "Retrograde" singer talks about his 2019 album and shares who inspired him to pursue a career in music
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 16, 2020 - 11:08 am

Shortly before GRAMMY winner James Blake treated 300 or so lucky GRAMMY Museum guests to a lively conversation and acoustic piano performance, the British electro-soul artist caught up with the Recording Academy. In our Behind The Scenes conversation, Blake spoke about his empowered 2019 album, Assume Form—which is currently nominated for Best Alternative Music Album at the 2020 GRAMMYs—and how he chose the epic collaborator list that includes current Best New Artist nominee Rosalía, André 3000, Travis Scott and Moses Sumney.

The "Retrograde" singer also shared who inspired him to pursue a career in music. (Spoiler alert, the answer is really cute.)

Watch our exclusive Behind The Scenes video with Blake below, and read on to learn more about the late-2019 GRAMMY Museum event, including what five songs he performed.

James Blake On 'Assume Form,' André 3000 & His Dad

"They're just all some of my favorite artists, so it was a dream come true, really, of a collaborator list," he told us. "I've been lucky enough that some of the people that I listen to also listen to some of my music and were happy to oblige to part of it."

"I think they all brought something really unique and we were on the same wavelength when we were making the music, so it feels natural, it feels kind of organic, and I'm so happy and honored they were able to join it."

Watch: Billie Eilish On Her Long Relationship With The GRAMMY Museum, How Rihanna Shaped Her Fashion Sense & More

Blake also shared how influential his father, the senior James Litherland (Blake was born James Blake Litherland), has been to his own music. Litherland is a life-long musician and played with the late-'60s U.K. rock outfit Colosseum. In 2011, Blake covered and reimagined his father's song "Where to Turn" on "The Wilhelm Scream," featured on his 2011 self-titled debut album.

"Over my career, there's been a running theme of coming into the foreground…with every reveal, comes some kind of risk," Blake told GRAMMY Museum's Artistic Director Scott Goldman, who moderated the event. "If Assume Form was anything, it was not only a version of songwriting clarity but also emotional clarity. It was the most clear I'd felt in a long time, so it was a good time to make an album."

Read: Find Out Who Just Made History With Their GRAMMY Nominations: 2020 GRAMMYs By The Numbers

He also dove a bit more into the album's collaborators, praising André's musicality and his "heady-ass verse" on "Where's The Catch." "His verse is f**king genius and I couldn't have written that." Blake also shared his love of Spanish nu-flamenco queen Rosalía, who brought her otherworldly vocals and fierceness to "Barefoot In The Park," noting that working with her felt super easy and natural.

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After the in-depth conversation, Blake made his way over to the piano for a soulful performance that opened with Assume Form's "Are You In Love?" and closed with his "favorite song ever written about a relationship:" Joni Mitchell's "Case Of You," which he covered on his 2011 EP, Enough Thunder. In between those two heartwrenching love songs, he treated fans to "Love Me In Whatever Way," from 2016's The Colour In Anything, "Overgrown," from his 2013 album of the same name, and "Vincent," his 2017 Don McLean cover.

Don't forget to tune into the 62nd GRAMMY Awards on Sun., Jan. 26 to find out if Blake will take home the golden gramophone for Best Alternative Music Album. GRAMMY.com and CBS will be your ticket to find out all the winners and watch all the fun on GRAMMY day—see you there!

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Lightning In A Bottle 2020 Lineup: James Blake, KAYTRANADA, Doja Cat, Bob Moses, Four Tet, GRiZ & More

James Blake

James Blake

Photo: C Flanigan/WireImage/Getty Images

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New James Blake Album To Feature Rosalía & More new-james-blake-album-feature-rosalia-travis-scott-more

New James Blake Album To Feature Rosalia, Travis Scott & More

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The British electro-soul singer/songwriter's fourth LP, 'Assume Form,' is due out Jan. 18 and also features collabs with Metro Boomin, Moses Sumney and André 3000
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 10, 2019 - 1:33 pm

Today GRAMMY nominee James Blake revealed details for his fourth studio album: Assume Form will drop next Friday, Jan. 18. His website now details its track list and pre-order details, revealing some exciting features and perhaps a deeper dive into hip-hop influenced beats in his own releases: GRAMMY nominee Travis Scott, Metro Boomin, Moses Sumney, Latin GRAMMY winner Rosalía and GRAMMY winner André 3000 all make appearances.

ASSUME FORM
The new album featuring Travis Scott, André 3000, ROSALÍA, Moses Sumney & Metro Boomin
Released January 18th. Pre-order now at https://t.co/XElwOrqSN3@trvisXX @rosaliavt @MosesSumney @MetroBoomin pic.twitter.com/GzrY4SvFYb

— James Blake (@jamesblake) January 10, 2019

Assume Form is Blake's follow up to 2016’s The Colour In Anything, and will feature previously released single "Don't Miss It," plus 11 new songs. Hip-hop producer wunderkind Metro Boomin is listed on two tracks, with rap phenomenon Scott joining on "Mile High" and soulful L.A.-based singer/songwriter Sumney featured on "Tell Them."

Spanish singer Rosalía, who blends electro-pop sounds and hip-hop beats with traditional flamenco, sings with Blake on "Barefoot In The Park." Yesterday evening, shortly after teasing his new album in a post with a link to assumeform.com, he retweeted a clip of the two of them working in the studio together, with a snippet of what is likely their song together.

"Where's The Catch?" will feature André 3000, formerly of GRAMMY-winning rap duo Outkast. According to Pitchfork, the two have paired up before, on André's 17-minute song "Look Ma No Hands," released last May.

Blake will embark on a previously announced North American tour, beginning in Miami on Feb. 15. Tickets are on sale now. He has also just added three U.K. show dates in April and will be performing in Barcelona at the Primavera Sound music festival on June 1, along with Rosalía.

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Despite only releasing two solo singles last year, he kept busy in 2018 with several headlining festival performances and quite a few big collabs: He worked with Scott in 2018 on "Stop Trying to Be God" on Scott's Astroworld, which is currently nominated for Best Rap Album. Another big 2018 collab for Blake was with GRAMMY winner Kendrick Lamar and GRAMMY nominee Future on "King's Dead" for the Black Panther Soundtrack. The song is up for Best Rap Song and Best Rap Performance and Album of the Year.

To see who wins at the 61st GRAMMY Awards, tune in on Sun. Feb. 10 on CBS.

Primavera Sound 2019 Features A "New Normal" Equal-Gender Lineup

Ryan Hemsworth

Ryan Hemsworth

Photo: Colin Medley

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Ryan Hemsworth On 'Quarter-Life Crisis' ryan-hemsworth-talks-new-ep-quarter-life-crisis

Ryan Hemsworth Talks Combining Two Worlds On 'Quarter-Life Crisis'

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The new EP's cohesion came naturally as he "tried to make it more like a mix or a compilation of like-minded people that are all kind of in the same world," he says
Danielle Chelosky
GRAMMYs
Dec 9, 2020 - 5:59 pm

Ryan Hemsworth's goal was simple: To allow his love for indie music to interact with his passion for producing. He's worked with Tinashe, Tory Lanez, Yurufuwa Gang—the list goes on and on, and it's diverse and full of surprises. For Quarter-Life Crisis, his EP released on Nov. 4 via Saddle Creek, the Canadian producer switched gears and brought in a circle of more low-key artists: Charlie Martin of Hovvdy, Frances Quinlan of Hop Along, Claud, Hand Habits and Yohuna. The ambiance is different—it's calm, sparkling, free-floating.

"Time just stretches out a lot," he tells GRAMMY.com a couple of weeks before the EP release, the day that the track "Comfortable" is unveiled. "It sort of was a good thing in the end because I've grown these relationships with everyone on the project."

The artists he collaborated with are also, in one way or another, interconnected. The cohesion came naturally as he "tried to make it more like a mix or a compilation of like-minded people that are all kind of in the same world," he says. That world is heightened in Quarter-Life Crisis—the delicate vocals, the earnest lyrics, the careful movement. It sounds less like a crisis and more like a resolution.

Read on to hear from Hemsworth about the timeline of the EP, the process of collaboration, and the inspiration to combine indie and electronic music.

Quarter-Life Crisis · Quarter-Life Crisis

When did you start making this EP?

The general idea started years ago. I was emailing with Saddle Creek—who's putting it out—probably well over five years ago. It was about this general idea of having a handful of different singers and people from different projects, but putting it all together into one hopefully cohesive project. It's been a long time coming. The songs actually started probably two years ago. I feel like that Hand Habits track ["Comfortable"] that came out today was maybe the first that got this into motion. Since then, I was finishing it through the start of COVID-19. It's sort of a pre-COVID project.

Read: 'Tron: Legacy' At 10: How Daft Punk Built An Enduring Soundtrack

How did you pick who to work with?

Kind of a mix of different ways. Half of them are part of the Saddle Creek label, and Amber is the A&R and she introduced me to a few of them. That helped a lot to get some level of trust going into it, like, "Hey, we know this guy, we know you guys would probably make something good together." That can be the one of the hardest parts at times, especially with a project like this.

Hand Habits, for example, had never really done a collaboration this way. I invited them to the studio and usually they'd play guitar and write everything themselves. I had an instrumental demo ready and I just played them a few different ideas. With the first one, Meg [Duffy, a.k.a. Hand Habits] was already like, "Yeah, this is sweet," just sitting there, humming and writing down lyrics. It was—hopefully for everyone, and myself included—just a refreshing approach. It was the same for Frances [Quinlan] as well. I don't think she'd really worked sitting there with a producer before and making this type of music.



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Did you feel any responsibility, especially since it was their first time doing that sort of thing?

Yeah. I wasn't too in my head in the moment, but after I was like, "I'm glad this went well because I probably could've turned them off from wanting to do something like this ever again." I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. [Laughs.]

But with Frances, who's just the nicest person, after she was like, "I've never really considered working in this way, but now I'm really interested in doing this more." Because I never really know; I'm not like most producers that are super cocky and have a big mixing board and are like, "Come on, we're gonna make a gold hit." I'm definitely more self-conscious and I want the other person to be super comfortable and happy. It's hard to turn that part of your brain off sometimes, but I think it went pretty well overall.

Is there anything specific you learned from working with all these musicians?

Definitely a lot of different elements. In a nerdy way, the approach to mixing. I feel like before this, I was really thinking more about how something sounds from the "How does it sound in the club?" perspective—the kicks and bass should be louder. This was more of a freeing experience, where I was playing a lot of it live with guitars and everything and I could actually make it sound rougher. I didn't need to use those words like "slap" and "smack"—I'm not thinking about music in those terms. [Laughs.] It's a personal, nice growth.

Especially working with Frances, who's really meticulous with how she makes music. That song changed a lot and went through a lot of demo stages. One section went from one to another, and we got a children's choir on the chorus and all of this different stuff. That let me step back and be like, "I'm not gonna control this thing. I really want her ideas to get across here." I wanted to amplify that and make it the best it could be in general. That's probably the producer goal in a way.

To me, the EP has this feeling of floating and this dreamy, delicate vibe. Was that something you were trying to capture?

I would say that's kind of what always comes through, for whatever reason or maybe for a bunch of different reasons. I definitely use certain synths that are heavily reverberated and certain sounds that kind of reference to '80s synth-pop stuff. At the same time, I really was going back to my high school indie band influences on these songs—thinking about Grandaddy, and all groups that combine electronic sounds and rock sounds in a not cheesy way.

Tell me about what your life was like when you were in high school and got into indie. How'd you get into it, who'd you like, what shows did you go to?

I started playing guitar in grade seven, and it was through my cousin who had a band. I looked up to him and wanted to emulate everything he did. So, just having a good role model, I think, and letting me steal his old CDs, like Smashing Pumpkins and stuff like that. Through high school, I was always excited to get home right from school and find music and go on blogs all day. I was in Halifax until I finished university, and honestly not a lot of big bands came there, so show-wise, I didn't really go to a lot. I was just sort of on my computer all day, every day.

I feel like I was originally really into this type of music, and sitting on my laptop and getting more into production, it lent itself to the electronic world and doing more and more of that, which ended up being the last 10 years of my life. I was like, "Wow, I can combine these things." I don't know why I was always scared of that a little. I thought it would like turn one side or the other off in those two different worlds, but I think nobody really cares anymore.

Why's it called Quarter-Life Crisis?

When I started thinking about the project, it was more accurate to quarter-life, but at this point I'm 30 now. The general idea was reached when I was playing a lot of shows and electronic festivals and there were definitely a lot of elements that I didn't really love about it. In general, I just wanting to be at home and go back to that sitting on my computer and not having responsibilities again.

Did that crisis just pass through you?

I guess so. Maybe the project is me sort of working that part of my life out. It does feel a bit cathartic to make this music that I've always wanted to but I didn't know if it would be accepted or if I would be accepted in this different world musically. It’s been a nice feeling so far.

For The Record: Joni Mitchell's Emotive 1971 Masterpiece, 'Blue'

Calvin Arsenia

Calvin Arsenia

Photo: Recording Academy

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Calvin Arsenia On 'Honeydew' & Covering Britney calvin-arsenia-his-dancehall-inspired-honeydew-ep-covering-britney-spears-close

Calvin Arsenia On His Dancehall-Inspired 'Honeydew' EP & Covering Britney Spears | Up Close & Personal

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The "Headlights" singer/harpist stopped by the Recording Academy to talk about his debut album 'Cantaloupe,' its clubbier reimagining with 'Honeydew,' his love of Frank Ocean and Bjork and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Dec 18, 2019 - 3:58 pm

Kansas City native Calvin Arsenia's ethereal, emotional music dances across genres without being tied down in any one place. With his 2018 debut album Cantaloupe and its dancefloor-ready reimaging with the Honeydew EP, the multi-instrumentalist singer/songwriter is a shimmering force to be reckoned with.

The Recording Academy caught up with the "Headlights" singer to learn more about the inspiration behind the two albums and what it was like bringing new life to Britney Spears' GRAMMY-winning classic "Toxic." We also find out who his biggest creative influences are, from late designer Alexander McQueen to GRAMMY winner Frank Ocean.

Calvin Arsenia On 'Honeydew' & Covering Britney

You can watch part of the conversation above and read the full interview below. You can also visit on our YouTube page to watch a longer version of the video, as well as for other recent episodes of our Up Close & Personal series.

This summer, you released your Honeydew EP, which is really fun and more of an experimental, electronic-led sound. How did making this project feel for you?

Honeydew was a follow-up to Cantaloupe, and we took some of the songs from Cantaloupe and decided to do them in a dancehall kind of remix. We were inspired because we—myself and my two producers—got booked to do a show for New Year's Eve, and the music from Cantaloupe tends to be kind of introverted and really introspective, and I want it to be able to reimagine those same songs in a dancehall kind of scenario. So we added a lot of percussion and kind of dismantled things and put them back together, but everything that's on there is a new recording. It's not just a remix, but it's brand new imaginings of those songs.

I love that dance music gets to get people moving. And the rooms that I play in are so varied. I play in bars and I play in concert halls and I play in really big performing arts centers or I play in dance clubs, and the music needs to shift based on what the room is. I didn't have a good solid set of music for dancing to, for festivals or for celebrations like New Year's yet, and Honeydew was birthed out of that need.

That's so cool. So the New Year's party is coming, or it happened?

It happened. We wrote and recorded and did all this stuff for New Year's last year, and then we had another festival in mid-summer. So we retooled and then recorded everything.

Read/Watch: BROODS Talk Trippy "Peach" Video, Resurrecting Bob Marley & Finding Strength On "Too Proud" | Up Close & Personal

Can you give us a little bit of the backstory on Cantaloupe's title track?

So "Cantaloupe," I wrote really intentionally, the whole album and in particular that song. I like using humor as a mechanism to understand the world and as a way to not be afraid of things that are sometimes scary. And in particular, I grew up in a very conservative place in the Bible belt of America, in Kansas City, and I was always really afraid of my homosexual tendencies and really afraid to be ostracized by my community. I always thought that I would never be able to have an open or free love or relationship.

So "Cantaloupe" is not that we can't elope because it's wrong or because it's illegal. In fact, it's very legal and it's very not wrong, but we can't elope because we want to invite everyone to come and see this party that we're having. We want to be able to invite them into our lives, and if we have a reason to have a party, then we should just have the party. So that's what that song is about. It was written out of a desire for that, rather than something that I was actually dealing with.

The wordplay in it is so fun.

And the fruit itself is so light and airy, bright and refreshing, I wanted the music and the imagery to be full of those bright colors, that's warm and soft. I know that I like to wear black but, but I wanted the imagery and the feeling of it, the context, the world around this record to be very effervescent and sparkly. [Laughs.]

What did it feel like when you released the album?

It's really interesting to watch an album grow outside of you or to see it go off to school for the first day or to see it experience its own life outside of you. The process of recording Cantaloupe was really fun. There was myself and two of my friends, J. Ashley Miller and Simon Huntley, and we spent a lot of time in the studio and we spent a lot of time experimenting and playing with things. Some of the inspirations that we had for the record were how do we make an album that is completely non-repeating and it's something that we've heard. One of the inspirations was Frank Ocean's Channel Orange, where every time the chorus comes around it's a little bit different, so even if it is something that is a repeated part, it's presented in a new way.

So I really wanted that to be one of the main themes of the album. I wanted it to span EDM and folk music and everything in between. I wanted it to have a very theatrical piece in the midst of it, which is "Palaces." I wanted it to sound like my shows feel when I'm performing live, which is lots of dancers and musicians and people coming in from all over the room and, and lights and I wanted to make sure that the album represented that kind of immersive feeling. Because of that, we also introduced the ideas of ASMR into the recording process as well. So we tried to have in each track something that was just textural and really close and soft. So depending on how you listen to it or how loud the volume is or if it's on vinyl or in MP3 format, you're going to experience different layers in the recording as well.

Related: It's Time To "Work B**ch:" New Britney Spears Pop-Up Experience Coming To L.A.

Also on the album, you cover Britney Spears' "Toxic," which takes on a spooky vibe with the harp. Why did you choose to cover "Toxic?" 

I decided to start playing "Toxic" because I wanted to do a song on the harp that was very sexy. And the harp is normally associated with angels and death, or birth or babies and very sweet and gentle, docile lullabies. I wanted to find something to perform that would just take it out of there. Britney Spears' "Toxic" is a great song. I mean the original, it can never be replaced or redone, but it was also really fun to introduce it to this instrument and kind of have it find a new, visceral life there.

I think by slowing it down and putting it in six-eight time, it really allowed it to breathe a little more and for the words to kind of illuminate some more, and then also to really climax into this very, almost terrified place. You feel like you're going to die when you're so overcome with adoration or lust or whatever for that other party.

In the context of writing the record and placing the song in the midst of it, I just wanted that just kind of manic feeling to exist somewhere in the record. I've associated that feeling of being overwhelmed or overcome with love or with needing to obey, with how I interact with the muses and just the creative process. Sometimes I can talk myself out of being irrational, but when it comes to creativity and to the songwriting process and to the music making process, I am such a slave to that.



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What songs have been your favorite to play live?

I think one of my favorite songs to play live is "Tip Toe." Although it's always terrifying to play it, because it's such petty admission to feel like I'm not welcomed in certain spaces because of a past relationship, when in reality nobody else is really thinking that, or I'm projecting a lot of insecurity on other people. At the same time, it's an honest feeling, and I feel that when we are honest and vulnerable is when we create the best bridges between people and communities.

One thing I try to think about a lot is how do we build bridges of empathy between people that look like they're very different, but actually we experience a lot of the same emotional things? And if we can understand how we experience that emotionally, then all the culture, what your money looks like, what your language is, all of those things kind of disappear.

How we move through life emotionally is really universal. I'm always terrified to talk about "Tip Toe" and, but I've played it in nine different countries, and the reception is always the same because people have felt like their past follows them and that it affects how they interact with the world around them. And they feel insecure and they feel like they don't belong or that they're not welcome. But if we can talk about it, we can manage it. So I've seen a lot of people break out of that with me.

As you mentioned, you grew up in Kansas City, and live there now. How do you feel that it influences and inspires your art?

Kansas City's a really magical place. There are lots of artists and a very prolific arts scene there, and a lot of funding that's put into it. Imagine the lowest place in the valley, and all of the weirdos trickle down into Kansas City from the Midwest, so we have a little safe haven there. Also, it doesn't hurt that we can afford to live and work there and you know, we're not working three or four jobs to keep our little studio apartment and not be making art. For that, I love it there and I want to continue to keep my bed there and keep traveling out of there.

But also collaboration and having the ability to work with multiple people and to not feel like you can only be exclusive to one band or project. The ability to explore is really exciting. There are a lot of people that are a part of lots of different projects, and every time I perform in Kansas City, I always use a different conglomerate of musicians because for me it's fun to see what the different energy is going to feel like or how different artists are going to bring a new flavor to these songs, and as the songs meld genre.

I just like the chameleon nature of music and that every time it's a brand new experience and that if people have seen me once or twice or 300 times, everything's always different. For them, I feel like I owe them a new experience because it's the new day and it's a new room or a new space or a new me, even. So Kansas City has allowed for me to be able to explore in that way where I feel that other cities wouldn't have let me do that.

What's your biggest hope that someone gets from either going to your show or listening to your music?

I really hope that people who listen to my music or come to the shows, I hope they feel permission to explore every emotion that happens in their heart and mind. That it is not shameful to feel jealousy. It's not shameful to feel angry. It's not shameful to feel insecure. That all of these are natural parts of the human experience, and that if we don't talk about them, then we can't manage them. But having them out in the open and celebrating the prism that is existence allows us to be, I think, ultimately more healthy individuals. So that's what I want people to take from my music.



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A post shared by Calvin Arsenia (@calvinarsenia) on Nov 14, 2019 at 8:56pm PST

Who are your biggest style and musical influences?

It feels cliché, but I really love [Alexander] McQueen's work. He's been a huge inspiration. I have not worn anything closely, remotely or at all stuff that he produced, but I saw the McQueen exhibit when it was at the Met in New York and I just wept the whole way through. I'd never had fashion cause me to cry before, but there was just so much emotion in that work.

As far as music, I have had my same top four musicians for the past 10 years. I love Björk. I love Sufjan Stevens. I love Joanna Newsom, and the Dirty Projectors, a great band from Brooklyn. I'm also really into Lana Del Rey's new record [Norman F***ing Rockwell!] because it sounds awesome. Frank Ocean, another big, big love. Moses Sumney, Serpentwithfeet. Amos Lee was a huge influence growing up when I was doing a lot more acoustic guitar things. I'm not afraid of folk and country, that's kinda where I started. There's a lot of influences. Mariah Carey. Love her.

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BANKS Talks 'III,' Exploring Life's Messiness In Music & Loving Fiona Apple | Up Close & Personal

Aimee Mann

Aimee Mann

Photo: Sheryl Nields

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Aimee Mann On 'Bachelor No. 2' Turning 20 aimee-mann-bachelor-no-2-turning-20-launching-indie-label-1999

Aimee Mann On 'Bachelor No. 2' Turning 20 & Launching An Indie Label In 1999

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The GRAMMY-winning singer/songwriter discusses her groundbreaking album and putting together a remastered, deluxe version on vinyl for its twentieth anniversary
Zack Ruskin
GRAMMYs
Dec 8, 2020 - 5:12 pm

It took twenty years, but the ranks of the freaks are finally complete.

Arriving on Friday, Nov. 27, the new remastered vinyl edition of Aimee Mann's 2000 album Bachelor No. 2 (Or, The Last Remains of the Dodo) at last unites the singer/songwriter's Oscar- and GRAMMY-nominated "Save Me" with the body of work it was originally plucked from. Featuring new artwork and four additional songs, the limited release from SuperEgo Records also marks the first time the full array of songs Mann wrote during this time frame has been packaged together.

Consisting of songs that would ultimately be split between Bachelor No. 2 and 1999's Magnolia (Music from the Motion Picture)—the Paul Thomas Anderson film in which Mann's music played a major role—these releases coincided with a time period in which the artist found herself being shoved from label to label. Mann's frustration over these experiences, which would lead her to start her own label, SuperEgo Records, naturally bled into the music she was making as well.

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"I think everybody has, at some point, been in a dynamic like that," Mann said, of being stuck in label purgatory for nearly five years. "It's a dynamic where you are trying to please somebody and you're told that this is the way you can please them, so you try to do that thing but nothing seems to work. And you feel crazy."

Speaking by phone from her home in Los Angeles, the "Avalanche" singer pulls no punches when it comes to sharing just how frustrating those experiences were for her.

It's a sentiment echoed in the thoughtful, incredibly informative liner notes from Mann that accompany this new edition. In addition to sharing some fantastic tidbits (for example, Dave Foley from "The Kids in the Hall" inspired a "Save Me" lyric), she also gets into the act of creation itself–territory she also regularly explores on her podcast co-hosted by Ted Leo.

In a wide-ranging conversation touching on everything from writing with Elvis Costello to her own musings on fame, Mann's self-proclaimed "terrible memory" fortunately didn't keep her from generously sharing what she remembers about making a record that would ultimately cement her status as one of the finest singer/songwriters working today.

In the liner notes for this new, remastered edition of Bachelor No. 2, you write that the record is "better than you remember." What do you mean by that?

I think it's just more of a function of not giving yourself enough credit when you first do something. It's not that I didn't think it was good. I think I just thought that other things I've done have been better. So, I guess that's why it surprised me, like, "Oh no, this really holds up."

In several places, the liner notes basically say "...and then Jon Brion just went crazy." Tell me more.

One of the reasons it was so great to work with him—well, it's twofold. On the one hand, I felt like we had a very similar melodic approach. But on the other hand, I could bring in something like "How Am I Different," where there's not a lot of change that happens from verse to chorus, but then he would tell us to go to this other chord. It's some harmonic place that I never would have thought to go and that just made it so exciting to me. That probably also goes to why I was surprised that the record held together.

Some of the songs I had started recording with Jon and then brought back into the studio to finish recording or maybe I still had to do mixing and adding. A thing that Jon is known for is having unlimited ideas for parts, which is a blessing and a curse because it's really hard to sort through everything.

Speaking of the timeline, it's difficult to know exactly what the chronology is when it comes to the songs you'd written before Paul Thomas Anderson started working on Magnolia and what came after. Is it true that he was listening to early demos when he was first writing the script?

I don't even know if we did demos. We definitely started recording between records [after 1995's I'm With Stupid] and then things just didn't get finished, or I wasn't happy with it, so I brought it back. For "How Am I Different," I may have recorded a different version with Jon, because I remember him coming into the studio and saying," Oh, you slowed it way down."

"Build That Wall" was a thing that we recorded, then I rewrote some words and added some stuff and trimmed some other things down. "Momentum" was 100 percent Jon just going crazy. The cover of [Harry Nilsson's] "One" was like an all-Jon orchestra.

Surveying the music landscape today, I see artists like Sadie Dupuis with her label, Wax Nine, and Phoebe Bridgers starting a label through Dead Oceans and I feel like SuperEgo was kind of a trailblazer in that regard. Would you agree?

It's interesting because, at the time, we tried to get other artists to join us. The whole idea was to share resources and nobody wanted to do it. I think the people who had record deals were like "better the devil you know" and thought it would be more difficult to self-release. I think it was the smartest thing I ever did. It was pure stubbornness. I found myself on a new label and I just didn't want to go through the same rigmarole that I always went through. You record an album, you have a history, and so presumably people know what you sound like and what you're going to bring.

Instead, it was these endless discussions about what is a single and what isn't a single. It's so tedious. Pick a f***ing song you like and promote it—or don't—but don't send people back into the studio to try to sound like a different artist. It's insulting and it's dumb. It's never going to work. People will see through it.  Whoever likes my music doesn't like it because I'm trying to be super pop-y or super catchy or of the moment. I think artists should be allowed to do their own thing, and that should be self-evident, but it's absolutely not.

Another thing I've always found striking about the songs on Bachelor is the ambiguity you create in which the subject of scorn in many of these songs could really be either a lover or a label head.

I think everybody's had a relationship of some kind—whether it's a parent, sibling, boyfriend or girlfriend—where you just keep trying to please someone and then, at some point, you have to decide: "Do I keep bending myself into a pretzel, into a shape that does not look like me?" Oh also, by the way, for what?

It's not like people hand you a check. You get a budget to make a record, but it's not like, "If you record this song written by our hitmaker, we will give you a check for $10,000." You're doing it on spec. You're the one who's going to promote it by going on the road for months and months. You're literally doing all of the work and for what? The idea that you might be famous? I really do think that's what [the label executives] think: that people are going to be so enamored with this idea that they might become famous that they'll just say and do whatever. They don't care. Being famous is a mixed bag. Sure, a very low level of fame is nice, but it takes a certain person to enjoy it and I just wasn't really that person.

I think people who are super famous, who have seen the limelight, are really amazingly adept at handling people and interacting with them in a way that is almost supernatural. I have a terrible memory. I don't remember people's names. That already causes a lot of stress but then there are people like Taylor Swift, who likes to interact with her fans. She invites them over and knows their names but there are not enough hours in the day for the energy and the clear-headedness required for that. I also think there are people who are bottomless pits of need and they're always after any attention they can get. That's their main goal, to get lots of attention.

I totally agree, and yet, if there was an Aimee Mann fan club box-of-the-month or something, I'd need to know what the hell was inside of it.

I mean, that actually sounds kind of fun, now that you put it that way. Like, what can I put in my monthly grab bag? It would be five different items that have nothing to do with each other.

Maybe some little drawings?

I'm actually doing a graphic memoir. I mean, it'll take me two years to do it. But ultimately, that's my pandemic project. It's a lot of work but it's interesting.

Speaking of graphic works, was the song "Ghost World" directly inspired by the Dan Clowes book?

Yeah, absolutely. That book really killed me. I think it summed up that that feeling of being 17 or 18 and having no idea about what to do with your life, which is a real crisis. Nobody really gives you any advice and you just have this vague sense of needing to get out of this town, as if that's going to fix it. In any case, I really related to that. Well, I didn't relate to it but I think it made me go back in time and think about how I felt when I was 17. Yeah, that was a real piece of art, that graphic novel.

In reading about what you went through with various labels during the time you were working on these songs, I'm always surprised that, at bare minimum, no one was at least excited about the fact that you had a song ["The Other End of the Telescope"] co-written with freaking Elvis Costello.

Boy, I know. Nobody seemed to care about that. When the label was discussing when they would put the record out—or whether they would put it out—after I'd been told that they decide when it's done, [Interscope's] Jimmy Iovine said something about how Sheryl Crow's last record "only" sold a million and a half copies and how it was this big disappointment. So ungrateful. Selling a million and a half records? That's what you're sneering at? It was like, "OK well, I guess under these circumstances, you probably don't care that Elvis Costello co-wrote this song."

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Jumping from the past to the present, your husband, Michael Penn, also just released his first new song in fifteen years! Will there be more?

I hope so! I think he's a phenomenal songwriter. He hasn't put anything out in 15 years. I think he's a person who was never really a performer—that really wasn't his thing—so I think he felt like there wasn't really a place for him in the music business. He's been scoring TV and movies but he's starting to write songs again and I'm really trying to goad him into making a record because he's so f***ing good! He's a world-class songwriter.

And as for you?

We're doing a Lost In Space [her 2002 album] reissue next, so working on that. There's also a new album. We just mastered it. I have to listen to the masters and check it out. I just got it!
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