Roy Kinsey and Mother Nature 

Photo by Hannah Steinkopf-Frank 

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How Queer Rappers Are Defining The Next Generation Of Chicago Hip-Hop

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In a music industry that’s still heavily straight and male-dominated, and in a city that's still deeply segregated, queer artists like Roy Kinsey, Mother Nature, Mister Wallace and more are creating spaces for themselves
Hannah Steinkopf-Frank
GRAMMYs
Jul 11, 2019 - 10:28 am

On a rainy Chicago night during Pride month, queer youth gathered at D.I.Y. venue Concept Sanctuary for a night of hip-hop in an area of the city that's considered one of the country's largest open-air drug markets. Close to midnight, rapper and librarian Roy Kinsey played a new song "Fetish" about being objectified as a black gay man before performing with Mother Nature, a female duo dedicated to empowering youth through music. Utilizing underground venues and grassroots creative collaborations, these artists have worked for years paving paths for historically marginalized communities. Now their voices and messages are influencing the future of rap in the Midwest and beyond.

From producers and club DJs innovating house music in the 1980s to hometown musicians like Kanye West, Chance The Rapper and Common dominating the airwaves, Chicago holds a central role in hip-hop’s development. But compared to coastal scenes in Los Angeles and New York City, it's an unassuming cultural tastemaker. Similarly, the history of American queer art often focuses on New York and San Francisco, but Chicago has a longstanding and flourishing LGBTQ+ community and is a hotbed for drag performance and nightlife talent. But in a music industry that’s still heavily straight and male-dominated, and in a city that's still deeply segregated, queer artists are creating spaces for themselves. 

Formed in 2016, the artist collective, record label and media platform Futurehood provides an outlet for queer creators of color. Futurehood cofounder Mister Wallace (Erik Lamar Wallace II) said, "One of our foundations is hip-hop and the tool hip-hop has become for storytelling and as a way of exposing what's happening in the underground or to the underdogs."

As a "skinny gay black kid," Mister Wallace turned to performance to be seen, finding inspiration in supermodels Naomi Campbell and Jourdan Dunn. Mister Wallace said, "I play with gender identity and sexuality. But at the end of the day I'm just trying to show people that we're all human beings and we all deserve respect."

Formed with DJ/producer aCe a.k.a. aCeboombaP (Anthony Pabey), Futurehood provided the support for Mister Wallace to release music, including the 2016 EP Faggot and 2018 album Cool Mom. That title came from their role in Futurehood supporting up-and-coming musicians navigating the entertainment industry. They help with both the creative process sitting in on studio sessions and business aspects, like negotiating contracts.  

Although Mister Wallace lauds mainstream culture and rap becoming more accepting of queer stars, citing Atlanta rapper Little Nas X, who came out on World Pride Day, they also worry about the commodification of their identity. They're particularly concerned with corporations monetizing queer culture, seen most visibly during Pride month. This year, they participated in Chicago’s first Pride South Side festival, a community-based alternative to the city’s North Side celebration.

 "Right now we're competing with major labels that if anything are going to take what we do and what we've innovated and put it on some artists because they already have the metrics and the A&R," they said, adding: "These artists in Chicago, or wherever in the world, are going to be looked over or they're going to be taken from, like, their style, their content, their flows, their ideas. It's hard to fight against those machines. Right now, it looks like being black and gay is marketable."

As a city, Chicago also carries stereotypes, particularly around violence and its unfortunate nickname "Chiraq." Young activists and creatives are leading the charge in battling decades of corruption and institutional racism to build a more equitable city. Mister Wallace, who recently performed at Germany’s WHOLE United Queer Festival, said it’s important to uplift their hometown: "I consider Chicago to be a portal. I consider her to be a mother. I try to honor her and all of her legacy through my work."

Kinsey, who works with teens for Chicago Public Libraries, is also challenging preconceptions of who can be a rapper. His 2018 album Blackie: A Story by Roy Kinsey was a personal dive into his life, from his family coming north during the Great Migration to visions of a black future, through what he described as a new queer spirituality.

"I like being a part of this Chicago community that is so rich with history but daring to do something different," he said, adding, "That's a lot of what my album is: It's me trying to put together what I thought were fragments, things that I thought I had to keep separate, which were my scholarly side being a librarian and then my hip-hop side being a rapper. Or my queerness and my hip-hopness."

A storyteller, Kinsey is inspired by the people he meets as a librarian. He said, "I'm around words all the time. But I'm also around a lot of people who are existing in the margins, especially in this city. That's what I talk about when I speak on the duality: When I speak on how Chicago can be a world-class city but also a city that is experiencing its own inverse migration. So many people are leaving because of gentrification, violence, the closing of mental health facilities."

This article features the music video premiere for "Fetish," a song that explores Kinsey's teenage search for romantic connection in historic Boystown. While the Northside neighborhood is recognized as the country’s first gay village, Kinsey shared the common sentiment that "Boystown is a very exclusive space for wealthy white men. It's not until young queers of color get there that they understand this isn't necessarily your home."

Kinsey is finishing his fifth album, Kinsey, out this fall. While in the recording studio mixing a track he performed with RuPaul’s Drag Race star The Vixen, he reflected on why the city has become an epicenter for queer rappers. He couldn't pinpoint a singular reason, but he highlighted the importance of remembering queer pioneers, from the powerful drag ball emcees to the two mothers who raised him.

"We're not inventing something," he said. "We're understanding that we operated for a long time thinking that we were the only ones. In trying to remedy some of the wrongs and add a balance back into the world, it's important for us to share our truths, to share our stories and to just say that we were here."

Others are working to develop future musicians in underserved communities. Klevah Knox (Shasta Matthews) and T.R.U.T.H. (Tierney Reed) met at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign and formed their duo Mother Nature. While women have traditionally been left out of hip-hop, Knox, whose father was a rapper, said it's exciting to be an anomaly, particularly with a supportive musical partner.

"Say we're opening for a male artist, I just feel that it’s a breath of fresh air to see women who are fearless and aggressive and loving," said Knox. "It slowly starts to free people."

Mother Nature taught internationally through the U.S. State Department Next Level initiative and started the nonprofit Miseducation Of Hip-Hop. Since 2015, they've worked with more than 300 kids around the country, teaching the art of the rap cypher and empowerment through self-expression. Now, some of their mentees entering college are pursuing music careers.  

"We're living testimony of everything we're teaching young people," said T.R.U.T.H, "It's possible for you to grow yourself, build your career, everything through this culture of hip-hop because it's more than just a genre of music."

Mother Nature released their four song EP Pressure in March and some of their students even starred in the music video for the track "Simple." While they participated in Pride and other queer-centered events, they don't want to be boxed in by their race, gender or sexuality.

"In trying to remedy some of the wrongs and add a balance back into the world, it's important for us to share our truths, to share our stories and to just say that we were here."

"I feel like hip-hop in its essence, you're talking about community," said T.R.U.T.H. "Most importantly it helps us to freely express. You let go of your boundaries. You let go of your preexisting notions and just be."

In promoting positivity and acceptance, Mother Nature also don't shy from exploring social issues and their mental health impact, particularly on people of color.

"For me, ideas and inspiration come in time of failure and 'death': not actual death but when you've hit a rock bottom or ending of something," said Knox. "For a second I'm in that space and then that's when the new flower starts to sprout."

She said Chicago's music scene reflects this ethos: "There's just something about the energy in Chicago that's really genuine, really multifaceted, really gutter. But at the same time really bright and loving and life-giving." 

Younger queer artists have fewer barriers to mainstream success because of the foundation laid by their predecessors. When he was only 15, Kidd Kenn gained viral fame when he freestyled over FBG Duck’s "Slide," queering the opening line to "It's a faggot party baby, you cannot get in."  In a short time, he was performing with Kehlani at San Francisco Pride. Embracing his youth, he released his first album Childish last year. While he's now signed to a record label and working with producers around the country, he still most enjoys writing in his bedroom.

"I love recording in Chicago because it's home so I'm comfortable already," he said. I know which studio I want to go to. If I want to have people there with me, I can do that."

Like many creative digital natives, Kidd Kenn uses social media to catapult his craft, while also being open about his gay identity. He’s collaborated with female rappers including Queen Key and Zani Band$ and joked they’re better than their male counterparts. With ambitious goals to have number one hits, be in movies and create clothing lines, he's inspired by megastars like Nicki Minaj.

"Her confidence, her work ethic, she doesn't care what people have to say about her," he said. "She's doing her with the colorful costumes in the beginning and just her being her."

Kidd Kenn’s bravado and dedication—he's now homeschooled to dedicate more time to music—represent a shift for queer rappers. Building on hip-hop's rebellious nature, these young creators are questioning the status quo and reclaiming spaces. When asked about Kidd Kenn, Mister Wallace recalled a recent experience in Boystown when he saw Kidd Kenn in a Mercedes, pumping music and dancing with friends. In that moment, Mister Wallace saw the freedom and power they'd envisioned for queer communities. While racism and homophobia are still rampant, Chicago's queer rappers prove art can be a force of not only resilience, but progress for their city.

"When I'm on stage I carry this confidence, this coolness," Mister Wallace said. "Yeah, there's a lot of aggression. Yes there's a lot of the struggle still present. But I overcome and I win. That's what I want them to know about Chicago. We're winners. We're going to overcome."

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Ramblin' Jack Elliott at The Freight & Salvage

Ramblin' Jack Elliott at The Freight

Photo: Hail McGrath

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Historic Berkeley Folk Venue Freight & Salvage Welcomes A New Generation Of Music Fans

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"There's kind of a special feeling when you walk in. It's like you are walking into someone's extra-large living room with a bunch of your close friends," Sharon Dolan, the historic venue's Executive Director recently explained
Lily O'Brien
GRAMMYs
Oct 4, 2019 - 9:20 am

When The Freight & Salvage Coffeehouse opened its (original) doors in 1968 in Berkeley, Calif., the intention was to create a cafe and gathering place for the community. Housed in a former used furniture store (thus, the name of the venue), it began to attract local musicians—acoustic guitar strummers, banjo pickers, fiddle players and more. It soon became the nexus for the burgeoning traditional folk and old-time music scene that was rooted in the anti-establishment, counter-culture, radical and experimental ethos of the iconic '60s and '70s eras.

Now, 51 years later, this legendary establishment is still going strong. The Recording Academy spoke to several of the people who help run the venue to learn how it's still shining bright.

In 1983, the popular club became a nonprofit, "the Berkeley Society for the Preservation of Traditional Music," to be exact. Five years later, the Freight moved to a slightly larger venue nearby, in 1988, eventually moving to its current home at 2020 Addison St. in 2009. The newer space offers an inviting, architect-designed 400-plus seat performance hall with a state-of-the-art sound system from Berkley's Meyer Sound. Yet even as they've grown, their space—and those who perform there—retains the rustic and intimate atmosphere.

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Just down the block from other popular cultural institutions—Berkeley Repertory Theatre, Aurora Theater Company and the California Jazz Conservatory—it is firmly planted in the heart of the Downtown Berkeley Arts District. A large, eclectic group of local and international artists, like Ramblin' Jack Elliott, Teresa Trull and David Grisman, have graced its stage, in genres ranging from traditional folk, blues, jazz, bluegrass, world and classical music.

GRAMMY-nominated Windham Hill Records artist Barbara Higbie has served on the Freight's Board of Directors for 14 years, and is currently its Co-Chair. A pianist, composer and fiddler, she began performing there 42 years ago, alongside fiddler Daryl Anger and guitar and mandolin player Mike Marshall.

"The City of Berkeley really wooed the Freight to come down there [to the current area], because they wanted to create an arts district, and at the time, the club was bursting at the seams," Higbie explained. "The Freight has so much goodwill. In the East Bay there are a few big communities that have supported it in a big way—the bluegrass community, the women's community, the blues community, the people who really love singer/songwriters and the alt-country community." 

Deeply passionate about preserving the integrity of the club, she initially had some concerns about the new venue, based on what she had seen happen to other spaces in the Bay Area. Now, 10 years later, she believes they are on the right track.

"I had experienced so many clubs getting bigger and either going out of business or changing beyond recognition," she explained. "I am so loyal to the Freight and I want it to survive, so it was a really a big concern to me that we didn't become just a commercial venue." 

Three years ago, Peter Williams was hired as the new Program Director at the Freight and has been giving their programming a fresh, worldly spin. With a resume that includes prominent positions at the Green Music Center in Sonoma, the Napa Valley Opera House, and Yoshi's in Oakland, his eclectic musical background made him the perfect choice.

"When the position became open I was really excited about it, because they wanted to diversify the programming and the audience a bit, so it sounded like a great opportunity for me to get creative and put all my musical tastes to work," Williams said over the phone. 

He explained the Freight's focus for many years had mostly been Americana and bluegrass music before he came on board. He began mixing it up by booking a healthy mix of Latin and world music artists, including bands from Haiti, Eastern Europe, Africa and the Middle East.

"Since Peter came, it's been phenomenal—he's such an expert at booking," Higbie revealed. "He is balancing it out amazingly between big draws, keeping all the constituents happy, bringing in new communities and trying to expand. He is a really visionary booking person and I think it has made a huge difference."

Not long before Williams, current Executive Director Sharon Dolan came onboard in 2015, after many years as a patron and volunteer. She is committed to preserving the Freight's original ideology of diversity.

"When I first got there, I saw the potential to fully live out our mission of preserving and promoting traditional music from a variety of cultures around the world," she said. "Historically we had focused on music from the folk revival from when we were founded in 1968—bluegrass, old-time and Celtic music. We still continue to do all that, but we also saw an opportunity to broaden our thinking and reach more people, partly by community outreach and partly by what we were putting on stage."

Dolan feels that the newer venue has maintained the comfortable, welcoming atmosphere it has always been known for. "There's kind of a special feeling when you walk in. It's like you are walking into someone's extra-large living room with a bunch of your close friends—a shared experience that we have. It's different from being in a large stadium show where the audience is so far away. You are right there, and there's much more of a connection between the performers and the audience, and that's a really key part of what happens here."

Along with the innovative and eclectic programming, the Freight also offers music classes for adults and kids, open mic nights and education and community outreach programs, to further its mission. 

"Our new education programming is part of our longer-term planning. We are continuing to work with adults, but the new part is the collaboration with middle schools in Berkeley, and we are definitely reaching a more diverse population," Dolan added. "The program is about mashing up traditional music with something more contemporary that the kids can relate to. For example, we have a program mixing traditional Indian vocal percussion with rap that the kids are really enjoying. We have only just started it and it's really cool."

They are also set to work on a new project with their local Recording Academy chapter in early 2020. PC Muñoz, who was recently hired as the Freight's Director of Education and Community Engagement has been an active member of the Recording Academy San Francisco Chapter.  He explained by email they are working on the details of a collaboration with Academy members who are educators, for a professional development event for the Freight's teachers.

With an exciting and ever-expanding roster of performers, classes, events and numerous other collaborations, the Freight seems to have found a sweet spot in the arts community that has helped it to retain its vitality and relevance in the Bay Area.

"I think music and the arts right now are critical," Dolan emphasized. "Music is one of the ways we build empathy for each other and for each other's cultures—we learn about each other that way. It's a way to share with a room full of other people, your despair or your hope about what's happening in the world."

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SiR 2019

SiR

Photo: Christian San Jose

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SiR Is 'Chasing Summer' And, With A Little Help From Kendrick Lamar & Others, Making His Dreams Reality

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"It feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least," the Inglewood singer/producer says of his vibey new album 
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 24, 2019 - 3:08 pm

You may have already jammed out to SiR's big 2019 summer mood single, "Hair Down," featuring the one and only Kendrick Lamar. If so, you already have a good starting place for understanding who the smooth R&B singer/producer, born Sir Darryl Farris, from Inglewood is. The vibey track is driven by SiR's warm, rich vocals over a slow-bubbling trap beat, elevated even further into the golden summer sunset by Lamar's verse. It's confident but laid-back—two words which also describe the artist himself well—a true slow-burn of a fire track.

"Hair Down" is the first track and the lead single to SiR's third album, Chasing Summer, which he dropped during Labor Day Weekend, on Aug. 30. It is his second LP released since he was signed to heavy-hitting Los Angeles label Top Dawg Entertainment. As he explains, it sets the tone for the rest of the album and also marks a major point of growth in his musical career and self-confidence.

"This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important. So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that," he recently told the Recording Academy over the phone.

You recently dropped Chasing Summer, which is just such a perfect mood as summer comes to an end. What has the experience of this release felt like for you?

Man, it's one of a kind. Being the type musician I am, I'm very involved with each release, and this one feels different than the last two. Everybody around me was locked in, not just me. All the musicians and all of my team, my management had the common goals set almost a year ago, and just were building on this idea. So, it feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least.

That's amazing, and I'm sure that's a really just great feeling to sort of be marinating in right now.

Yeah. It's awesome. It's definitely new territory for me. I'm just trying to keep up with myself now, which is fun.

 "It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure."

I love that. Can you speak to what your main vision for this album was?

The vision for the album is, it was all based off of my life on the road and all my experiences that I had accumulated over the last three or four years. With seeing my peers and just dealing with personal relationships, business relationships and trying to balance home and the road, and just my evolution as a human. I kind of put a lot of it into wax. It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure.

I feel like it really does. I wanted to talk about the producers on the album. You worked with a handful of different people including Kal Banx and Sounwave from TDE as well as Boi-1da and a few others. How do you feel that working with these different creative minds helped challenge you and shape the trajectory of the album?

I'm going to answer this question, but I have a very specific thing about me that I really like. I work with people that want to work with me, so I don't chase beats; there's no rhyme or scheme. I didn't select certain people. I just put my head down and kept writing songs until we felt like we had a body of work. And then, what I do with most of my production is I'll get players to come in and add actual instrumentation to a good beat so that it has more life to it. I'm hands-on with all my mixes and masters. With all of the production, I was blessed to have really talented musicians around to help just elevate the sound, and I think that helps so much, man.

Working with cats like Boi-1da was an honor, of course, but I wouldn't hold him in higher regard than I would a Kal Banx, who damn near had six records on the album that he helped me produce and work on. So, I feel like everybody added their own sauce to it and it ended up being way bigger than I expected. But as far as like who produced what, I think that's not as important as the overall body of work, and we all knew that. With Kal, he wasn't worried when I told him I got a new base plate on the recipe. He didn't ask any questions, he just knew it was going to be saucy. You know what I mean?

I think, like I said, we all had a common goal. Once I laid out the plan and the vision for everybody, they were on board. So, we went into the every session with a specific goal in mind and we executed properly and I think it's going to pay off for all of us in the long run. I'm so excited for Kal. I'm excited to share this moment with him and see the response to his hard work, and it's all a blessing, really and truly.

It really seems like it was everything you would hope for in the studio, that everything is moving forward and flowing together, even with all the different people.

Yeah. I learned a lot from November and just how I kind of let a lot of people in the process in certain points where I didn't really necessarily mean to. This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important.

So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that, and I think that helped give people an idea of what they should be doing when they come around. If you're a producer, I might not need you to make a whole beat, but I might need you to make these drums, or I might need you to play keys. Just be prepared to translate what I need, I'm not coming to you to get what you need. I produce myself, so I think this time around I was able to really fine-tune things the way I like, and it shows, man. This is my baby for sure. I feel like this is a very special project.

The album opens with "Hair Down," featuring Kendrick Lamar, which you also released as the lead single. Can you give a little bit of the backstory on that song and video and what it was like working with him?

That was probably the first song I wrote for the album that we were probably going use as a single. We usually don't try to shoot for singles, you know what I mean? When we're building a project, we'll make sure that the songs can all stand on their own two legs. As soon as I did that one, it just felt like what I wanted the album to look like, and to me it was the perfect starting point. It was the perfect launch point for what we were trying to accomplish, and I didn't get the [Lamar] verse until two months ago or something like that. I wrote that song probably a year ago while we were on the road at [TDE's 2018] Championship Tour.

That's not something you ask for. It was something that we talked about, but that's not something that you ask for. It's like the Jill Scott thing, I didn't really ask for that. You got to let them make that decision. I think with working with artists like Kendrick, Jill Scott and Lil Wayne, it's a blessing and I think I do everything I can to just make myself someone that people want to work with. I think I do a good job of standing on my own two feet, and that's something that I had to embrace over the last two years.

Just working with your idols is always awkward. It's weird. I met [Childish] Gambino at the BET awards. I wish I could take that back because it was so awkward, you know what I mean? And I still go through the everyday life stuff of I'm human and if I see somebody that I'm not used to seeing, it's going to be weird. This year, I had to really step outside of that and become SiR, and really accept that. I think it shined through when I sat and talked to people about the project, they were more open to it because I was more confident in myself, and that really helped a lot, just giving me that confidence. [Lamar's] conversations are more important to me than that verse ever will be. I'm appreciative of the verse for sure, but I can really say that's my mentor. This dude really takes care of his team and really cares about us, man. So, it's definitely a blessing to have him on deck.

And what would you say the biggest thing you learned from the collaborators on this project?

Spread love. Because I feel like most of them, they didn't have to do what they did. Miss Jill, she's getting so much love on her acting career, as she should be. She really doesn't need to feature on anything. All of these artists, they got their own things. People are looking for them and checking for them.

When I get on, if I'm ever in a position to bless somebody, and I feel like they are working hard and they've got their thing together, I definitely would want to be what they are to me. I'd want to be a blessing and give back to the community. They see that I'm a part of the same community, I have the same common goal with music. It's not me trying to get on or be a flashy type. It's not that. I really care about the music. So, I think they saw that and they wanted to reciprocate the same kind of love I'm trying to get off it.

That's all it's really about, is spreading love and giving back to what you want to see thrive and flourish. And I think they really see something in what we got going, and I was just lucky. I really feel like it's the right place at the right time, but I don't want to make it that simple. But I feel like they really are just spreading love, man, and they blessed me. I'm still in shock. I can't really process it. It's all new territory for me. It's lovely though. I don't take it for granted.

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How would you describe the L.A. music community now? From that explanation, it sounds very supportive and nurturing, but I'm interested in your perspective, whether it's just like that with TDE or just in your experience with who you've worked with.

L.A. is a weird place. It's very divided, with the people that are actually from L.A. to the people that come out here and claim L.A. The music industry's a weird place in general. I'm from L.A., so I definitely abide by the L.A. rules before I abide by the music industry rules. But when it comes to the music scene, there's a small community. What I'm learning is the further along I go in my career, the community gets smaller and smaller, and that's a great thing. You find people that are like-minded, and you got to let some friends go sometimes.

But for the most part, the goal is to find common ground that you can really build on. And I feel like I've found my community of people, from Mind Design to Kiefer to D.K. the Punisher to Kal Banx to all of my musician friends, The Catalyst, my band. My brothers, and just all of the musicians that I've been working with for the last 10 years, I still work with the same cats. L.A. is small, it's big, but at the time it's small, and I really want to keep it that way. I'd appreciate it if it stayed that way.

What does that summer mood look and sound like to you?

Well, summer mood has that sunset tint to it. It's like, to me, this album is best listened to riding down Malibu about six o'clock sunset. That's the vibe. I'm a Cali kid through and through, and I hope it translates through with the music. I think we hit it on the ball. If you want a glimpse at what summer's supposed to be, just take a listen to the album, close your eyes, and it should do the trick.

Stepping back, who are your biggest influences?

Oh man, Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway. These are people that my mother listened to when I was growing up. I grew up in the church, so I love Fred Hammond and Noel Jones. I don't know if you know who Noel Jones is, he's a preacher from L.A., his voice is so crazy. My mom sang background for Chaka Khan back in the day, and Michael Jackson. So, I grew up with an ear to R&B for sure, from the '60s, '70s, '80s. Of course I have hip-hop influences, but my spectrum is wide. We could have a 30 minute conversation about all the music I listen to, I promise you.

Lately, I've been listening to a lot of The Beatles. "Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds" has been on repeat for a couple of weeks, then Innervisions [Wonder's 1973 album]. I go back and forth between [Wonder's] Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. Then, my real guilty pleasure is John Mayer, I'm a huge fan.

I love it.

I think with music, and this is my advice to young people, it's like careers almost, you won't know what you want until you taste a few things. I think Gary Gee says that. You got to taste things to know what you want to be. I feel like music is like that too. You can't just listen to country music because you're from the South. You've got to listen to something else just to try it. You don't know, you might like classical music. If you never listen, you will never know.

I did a lot of that when I was younger and I found my vibes for sure. But I listened to some stuff that people probably wouldn't expect. But I think that helps to shape me as a musician in general. I definitely don't shy away from exploring and trying to find different vibes that I really like. One of the most fun parts about music to me, is exploring and finding new things that you never would expect you to enjoy, you know? So, yeah, my spectrum is wide, it's a rainbow for sure.

Growing up in a musical family, how do you feel like that impacted your journey to becoming an artist?

I can't really explain it because it's weird for me to be the artist in my family. I still wake up and kind of laugh because I never expected this. When I was younger, I didn't want to do music. When I was 14, my mom would make us sing in church every Sunday, and I got sick of it. That's when I kind of decided I didn't want to do music. I went on about my life, at about 19, 20 started working dumba** jobs and that turned into me wanting to find something that I was passionate about, and turns out it music was it all along. I had to step away to kind of find it for myself.

But I started really getting serious about music when I was 22, and then I ended up going to school, graduated in 2011 from film school, and just never looked back from there. I think that was what I needed was to really find it for myself, because my brothers' all sing or write songs, and my mother is still active in the industry, and they always said it was what we needed to be doing. I just had to see it for myself and I think that made me a better musician. My life experiences helped shape how I write songs. I appreciate my time away from music, but also I'm glad I found my way back because I don't know what I'd be if I wasn't a musician. I'd probably be—let's not even talk about that.

I'm blessed. My family is amazing. My brother is an amazing singer/songwriter. My older brother Daniel, he's an amazing rapper and he's the writer, and we're all supportive of each other. I know that I probably wouldn't be where I am today without the support of my family and them pushing me to be a better writer and a better musician.



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You come back to where you're supposed to be at some point. You touched on it a little when you talked about your influences, but what advice do you have for younger people that have a passion for music but aren't really sure where to start to pursue music professionally?

Don't be afraid to be wack. Don't be afraid to fall on your a**. You got to start somewhere. But it's just like anything else in life, and I could preach this to the ends of the earth. It doesn't matter what you decide to do or when you decide to do it, but it's about staying dedicated to it and really working at what you want. If you want something then put it in the universe. Write it on a piece of paper, say it every day when you wake up and just don't worry about when it's going to happen. Just keep working.

I think that's the best thing I ever did for myself. I put my head down, I shut the f*** up and I worked for five years on music, and didn't try to release anything, didn't try to do anything. I got to the point where I was so ready to go that I had three projects worth of music ready to go, and we started with Seven Sundays and from there worked our way into being with TDE and all that.

I really developed my craft first and made sure I was confident in what I wanted to hear. So, I think for anybody that wants it, just don't be afraid to fail, and keep working at it. It's not easy, none of this is. But I feel like if you want something, you can just really work at it and it'll come. You just got to be willing to f***ing eat dirt and mud for a little bit. Eventually, hard work pays off, no matter what you do. If you want to sell ice cream, sell ice cream every day. Get up, get your cones right, make sure your freezer's at the right temperature, make sure your music's playing and hit the block and get on that ice cream.

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David Hinds of Steel Pulse

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Steel Pulse's David Hinds On Social Change, Movies & The Band's First New Album In 15 Years

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The frontman and lead songwriter of the GRAMMY-winning reggae band talks 45 years of fighting for social justice, the work that went into the new album, his acting ambitions and more…
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Sep 24, 2019 - 10:38 am

Many passionate social advocates mellow over time, but not David Hinds. Nearly 45 years into his role as leader of GRAMMY winning British reggae outfit Steel Pulse, Hinds is still working hard for change. While their message has always been a global one, Hinds has doubled down on his passion for progress to match the modern state of world and updated his method to the current creative flow of the band, keeping his nose firmly to the grindstone. The result is Mass Manipulation, Steel Pulse's infectious new album and first in 15 years.

We spoke with Hinds while on tour to find out what he poured into the new project, where his working to make an impact on his next tour, his interest in movies and TV, what his future plans involve and more.

Why was this the right time to record and release Mass Manipulation, the band's first studio album in 15 years?

The recordings have been staggered. But because of the circumstances throughout the world for the past five, ten years, informed by activists with regards to terrorism, with regards to racism, with regards to police brutality, and regards to all these setbacks, so many countries being taken advantage of by superpowers.... All these things have always been templates years ago that made what we were doing automatically timeless. We had a year to go, and after recording several tracks, we thought to ourselves that there's still three more tracks that would have made the album right in the pocket as far as things that were happening, really on an escalated scale with things just stepped up a notch. 

Although things have been happening systematically over the past years, it was stepped up a notch. As in, you can see over the past two or three years, there's been a lot of mass shootings taking place across the United States and other parts of the world. There's other protests and demonstrations going on as well. We witnessed that for the first time back in 2011, when we saw the Middle East uprising with taking over from the people that govern them, the dictators of several decades, whether it's Tunisia, whether it's Egypt, whether it's Libya, where in all these countries, all of a sudden, people are realizing that they've got a say. So "Rize" and "Stop You Coming and Come" were  based on my Ethiopian experience. I was in Ethiopia for the very first time in mid-2017.

After that experience, I was so overwhelmed, I thought it was necessary to express my views and put that song down. And then we just wanted a song also that had a solution, a conclusion to it. We didn't think the album concluded anything and we decided to do the cover version of Steve Winwood's "Higher Love." And obviously we formulated the lyrics differently and called it "Higher Love (Rasta Love)." 

When it comes to Rastafarian philosophy, it is the most unifying thing for mankind when it comes to music, period, across the board. So we just thought it was necessary to record the three to four extra songs and complete the album.

Was this album intended to be so global or did it just come out that way? And why do you feel like your message is so universal?

If you go then back through Steel Pulse's albums that we've done, the messages have always been global. We've always been universal. And maybe because you're trying to differentiate between how the Jamaican acts, those that actually record and produce songs in Jamaica I mean, their lyrics are not exactly global in a sense, but a lot of it's to do with just being from Jamaica. Where Steel Pulse is coming from a British background, so it's easy for us to adjust and create songs on that merit and on that kind of platform, because we are coming from a cosmopolitan country. First of all, England as a first world country, as a Western world country was always up to speed with what other countries has been doing whether it's political, whether it's social, whether it comes to business and enterprise. So it was easy for us to keep churning out  songs. That was always going to be a given from day one. I mean the very first, album, "Ku Klux Klan" was on that and you don't find that in the United Kingdom. So that tells you straight away that the band has been international or trans-Atlantic from the get-go.

Because of the weight of that message and because of Steel Pulse's legacy within reggae, the actual songwriting isn't talked about as much, but you're an extremely prolific and accomplished songwriter. After 45 years of the band, is your songwriting process the same as it was back when you were writing those early songs? How has your songwriting process changed?

I would say it varies, it ebbs and flows, but the principle has changed somewhat. Whereas in the earlier years, without a doubt there were songs that were written where the lyrics were written first, and then the music. And then there were songs where the music was written first and then I added lyrics to them, like the song "Ravers" from the True Democracy album, for example. That was an instrumental before and I added lyrics to it. And take "Sound Check" from the Handsworth Revolution album. That was actually a rhythm groove and I decided to add lyrics to it while in the studio. 

This time around it's a bit of me supposing, focusing on punchlines and melodies and trying  to make the lyrics as constructive as I possibly can. That can be a tendency where one can dry up when it comes to the potency and the substance that a song can have and I made sure that I wasn't drying up in that domain. That's what I'm saying. In the early years, like I said, there were a lot of times we'd base the band's lyrics on rehearsal and jamming.

But since the format isn't like that anymore, I tend to be a recluse in my home and I'll wake up in the middle of the night, maybe two, three, four, five o'clock in the morning and jot down lyrics that I found stimulate me, or that I thought provocative. And sometimes I'd purposely write without intentions of recording it, thinking if it's that strong of a song, I'll still remember it by the morning. Then I realized that was not such a good idea. Some damn good ideas I've had, and I should've held on to them so to speak. So I got the iPhone now, the iPad, and hum the melody into those machines, and you wake up the next day you capitalize on what was an idea in the middle of the night. So that's how it's been now.

Early years, a lot of the time the music was there and I added the lyrics to it. It seems to be more difficult for me sometimes. I tend to write the lyrics, having a melody in mind in the first place, and a groove in mind, and then I hear out of the tempo of delivering the songs as the words, and try to match a beat to that and then that's how it goes for me. I'm more concerned about the strength of the lyrics than melody a lot of times. In actual fact both should be supplementing themselves.

Can you tell me about this tour you're planning? As I understand, you're choosing to perform at Native American reservations and juvenile detention centers…

Well, you've heard of the term bucket list. These are the things from the beginning of the band's career, especially when we touched down in the United States (by the way about a year from now is going to be the 40th anniversary since we arrived in the U.S.) that it's always been on my mind to pursue those avenues because those have been always our major concern. We wrote songs like “Soldiers” based on how the Native Americans were decimated, and their land desecrated. Then we've always thought that there was some kind of a bond with ourselves and Native Americans with regards to the slave trade that took place in Africa, and colonialism. So there's always this thing saying, “let me hang out with these guys and see what they are about, and see how they're coping with situations.”

And then there was the other side of things as well, where for instance, I've read up on prisoners, political prisoners in different countries, and people that I've admired over the years were once political prisoners. When you think of all the African leaders for example, that took over Africa, once Africa got independence. They were all prisoners at one point, Nelson Mandela, Kwame Nkrumah, Patrice Lumumba, Jomo Kenyatta, all these guys at some point served time for their beliefs. So I've always had this thing about going inside jailhouses and seeing how people are coping with their predicament. Especially because a lot of times I don't think prisons are really addressing the situation, what really goes down within the mind of someone who's being seen as a criminal.

I don't think programs have been set in earnest to rehabilitate guys like this. But I've always been intrigued by trying to get into the minds of the incarcerated... And a lot of the time someone just had a bad break, a lousy break and just needed that second lease of life and needed a program to turn their life around for something positive. I mean you'd take the situation of the Central Park Five, who were five youths sent to jail for an alleged rape that took place in New York and Central Park back in 1989.

For all five guys there was not enough evidence for time in jail, but because certain factions of the police wanted to get brownie points, they were put away  for a crime they didn't commit. So these kinds of things, I'm always focused in on situations where it's evident that someone didn't commit a particular crime, or if they did, what is it you can do to help their cause. I mean, obviously if they've committed murder, and the United States said it's the death penalty, you can't do anything about that, because that's the law so to speak. What I'm talking about is those where there is hope of them being rehabilitated...They come out of jail only to find themselves back in there again, because they weren't given a fair crack at the whip.

And there's a movie based on the Central Park Five, When They See Us. One of them got out of jail and God knows, he spent so many years trying to get a job, and he had that stigma hanging over his head, because they said he committed that crime he knew  he didn't. After a while he had no choice but to stand on the side of the streets, selling crack like everybody else. So what I'm saying is, because he didn't do it in the first place, but got ostracized by family, got ostracized by God knows what else and he went out there trying to make a go at life. Once again, couldn't get a job. And before you know they're scraping back up again for another sentence because he didn't have that fair crack of the whip. He had to go out and try and make his ends meet. So these are the things I'm looking at, and this is why I'm taking an interest.

With all of these intense and heavy issues you and the band are addressing, what are some things you do to take care of yourself mentally, whether it's to relax or to make sure that you're mentally healthy?

Well, that's another good question, because right now as it stands, I'm sort of managing the band. I've done a lot of overhauls, I've changed the landscape, the backdrop of what's Steel Pulse's been about, I've changed management, changed the agency, changed certain members of the band. And it hasn't been easy, trying to do all this and still trying to create. You still try to stay focused and have the energy, the physical energy to go out there and perform, because doing this is a 24/7 kind of scenario. Once you're performing, and you've got a rest spot, you know you're not doing that, because you've got to start doing the business side of things until proper management kicks in.

So I try to make it a rule of thumb that I don't let anything stress me too much. Before, I'd be irascible, when I started out in this business, the moment something wasn't the right way, I would go apesh**. And now that's been reduced a heck of a lot, because I'm a total believer in Murphy's Law, trying to compensate and correct it, number one. Number two, I'll say, “all right, you did this much, and how much can you expect to do for the day? You're not getting any younger,” and try to just chill out a bit. So I've managed to put on a different head in how I perceive things. In my spare time, I still do a relative amount of reading in regards to what's going on in the news.

I tend to really wind down when I'm watching a couple of bad boy movies and stuff… I like watching movies in my spare time on Netflix recently, before that you see other ways of trying to access a movie. And that's how I wind down. It takes away from the reality of the world, you see how someone's living in their world in the sense of film.

Lastly, you're coming up on 45 years of Steel Pulse. What are the goals for the future of the band?

Finances being our biggest deficit, I'd like to know that there's enough money generated financially, that I can start to really be more active in other areas in regards to, for example, charity. I mean we dabbled in it, sold T-shirts or presented other avenues in generating funds for certain causes, like the earthquake that took place in Haiti, nine years ago. We did a donation for hurricane Gilbert, but that was in bloody 1988. But I'd like to know we stepped up to the plate some more in regards to certain causes, is what I'm saying. That I'd like to know. For myself personally, I'd like to know that the band's songs get featured more in movies around the world, or documentaries, and be that kind of a force when it comes to reenacting the songs that we do, with the lyrics and all that kind of stuff.

Then I'd also like to be participating in acting. When we first came to the United States, my dream was to participate in one or two movies or TV shows.

And at that time in early 80s throughout the 90s it was very difficult, because the dreadlocks were not a palatable thing in the United States and in film at that time. And then whoever became a dreadlocked individual in Hollywood had a fake Jamaican accent. They had a stereotypical kind of thing going on. I had one or two close shaves trying to get into proper selective roles. There was The Return of Superfly. That storyboard, that script was presented to me when it came out. Never happened in the end, but it was presented as an idea. And I've already managed to do acting for a brief moment in one particular film, called Rock Steady, for which, I actually wrote the title track. So that's what I'd like to know. I like to know we're a bit more active in these domains.

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BROODS

BROODS

Photo: Recording Academy

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BROODS Talk Trippy "Peach" Video, Resurrecting Bob Marley & Finding Strength On "Too Proud" | Up Close & Personal

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Hear from the electro-pop group about the inspiration behind their wacky visual, growing up with music as the driving force and who they'd want to perform with, dead or alive
Ana Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 23, 2019 - 5:03 pm

Sibling electro-pop duo BROODS, consisting of Georgia and Caleb Nott, love making music but don't take it too seriously. Growing up in New Zealand, their parents encouraged them to sing and learn instruments from a young age and, consequentially, music became, and remains, their lifeblood.

Back in 2013, they released their first (self-titled) EP, co-written by the duo and produced by fellow Kiwi Joel Little. (Little would go on to earn a GRAMMY win for his work with another rising New Zealand alt-pop artist that year: Lorde.) The next year, they followed up with their debut album, Evergreen, with the singles "Bridges" and "Mother & Father" charting in New Zealand, Australia and the U.S., launching a still-growing, global fan base.

BROODS On "Peach," Finding Strength On "Too Proud"

Earlier this year, Georgia and Caleb dropped their third album, Don't Feed The Pop Monster, on Feb. 1. For the latest episode of the Recording Academy's Up Close & Personal, they spoke about their latest album, the creative process of it and why "Too Proud" was a big deal for them.

They also talked about the inspiration behind their wacky "Peach" music video, growing up with music as the driving force and who they'd want to perform with, dead or alive. You can watch a portion of the conversation above and read the full interview below. You can also visit on our YouTube page for a longer version of the video, as well as for other recent episodes.

So you guys released your third album, Don't Feed The Pop Monster, earlier this year. What was your original vision going into that and the overarching themes?

Georgia: When we were making this album, Don't Feed The Pop Monster, there wasn't really—

Caleb: —any kind of vision.

Georgia: We were just kind of in a position where we'd made a couple of albums and we'd been on a couple of labels and been dropped a couple of times. We had an opportunity to kind of just make whatever we wanted and kind of use our freedom to our advantage, rather than get down about being a little bit lonely and isolated.

Caleb: And having no label support or money, so we just did whatever we wanted as a result!

Georgia: I think the fact that we were in that position made the album what it is. The themes of the album are very in line with going through that experience of questioning yourself and, like every creative person, I think, goes through self-doubt.

Caleb: Imposter syndrome.

Georgia: And so it's a lot to do with that and trying to figure out how to be self-congratulatory and sustain yourself without having a clear, "This is what will happen if you release this album, This is what you'll get back," because there's never really anything like that. So you just gotta kind of do it for fun!

I love it. And on the album, you worked with Joel Little again, right?

Georgia: We did a couple of songs with Joel Little.

Can you talk about your creative process specific to this LP?

Georgia: With this album, we didn't work with one producer. In the past, we've worked with one producer for pretty much the whole album. This time we worked with—

Caleb: A bunch of different friends; Tommy English and Leroy Clampitt a.k.a. Big Taste.

Georgia: We did lots of co-writing as well. On the last records, we didn't really have other co-writers. But [for this album] we did this amazing writing trip in Nicaragua where we were working with different writers every day. I think the amount of collaboration that we did on this record was awesome, was definitely—

Caleb: Super fun!

Georgia: It taught us a lot about writing and how to, you know, be adaptable and kind of push yourself and experience with different kinds of music and different vibes, different themes.

What do you think was your favorite part about the collaborative process from that experience?

Caleb: I think collaborating with others is a key part of dodging creative block, number one, because you've got multiple minds working with you that can assist you and you're not just by yourself going, "Ugh, I have no idea what to do," and you can bounce off each other. I think the productivity of collaboration is awesome.

Georgia: Yeah. It kind of takes away a lot of the pressure as well.

Caleb: Especially if you like the people that you're working with, you know?

Georgia: Yeah. It also makes the experience of just making something with your friends and then getting to listen to it and show people and play it on stage. The whole process of this album was so fun and playing it on stage is so fun.

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What have been your favorite songs this go around to perform live?

Caleb: I don't know, I feel like a surprising song to play on tour for us was "To Belong." We didn't really expect that crowd to respond to that one as much as a single or anything but they seem to know all the words. It's also the one six-minute song on the album.

Georgia: Yeah, we start our set with that song second and it's just all about vibes and pulling in the audience into our heads. And it's such a live album, if that makes sense. It's was so easy when we were writing it to imagine it live. And the way that it felt actually playing it live was just satisfying as hell.

I want to talk about the "Peach" video because there's a lot in there.

Georgia: It's very overstimulating, that video!

It's very '90s pop vibes, I love it. Can you speak to the story behind that song and video a bit?

Caleb: I think a lot of people expect there to be a lot more in-depth thought about the "Peach" video, or a lot more planning or writing that went with it, but it was just the right people on the right day, kind of. And we had an incredible director [Sam Kristofski], a friend of ours from back in New Zealand as well, that's based here and basically just let him go—

Georgia: Go crazy!

Caleb: —and do what he thought because we love everything he makes. And he's super funny.

Georgia: We kind of just had one initial idea that we wanted it to be kind of the show that we used to watch when we were kids called "Top of the Pops." Is that a thing here?

Caleb: I don't think it was.

Georgia: No, but it's basically just a music TV show where pop artists from that time would come and do a performance, lip syncing obviously, and it was just like amazing lights and super early-2000s/late '90s. So cringey but in the best way!

And we wanted to recreate that kind of vibe, that nostalgic music show thing but then just trip it out like crazy. And have six different costume changes, because I am obsessed with dressing up. Every time I clean my room it just turns into a big dress up party. And we basically just wanted to have as much fun making the video as we did making the song.

I love that. It does look like it was a lot of fun.

Caleb: It was the hottest day ever. It was 118 degrees that day in Burbank.

Georgia: I'm so glad that we chose to do the video in a studio, wow.

And then one of the other songs on the album, "Too Proud," is the first song Caleb also sings on, which is really cool. And it's such a powerful song. Caleb, what did it feel like for you to offer your voice, literally, to that track?

Caleb: I guess writing "Too Proud" and performing it is something that I had never done before. Singing in front of people scares, you know—can I say sh*t? Living sh*t out of me! And it took me quite a while to even figure out how I was gonna even do that on stage, to be honest.

Georgia: You did it on TV and everything though!

Caleb: It was the first time I sang in front of anybody was on national television.

Georgia: I was so scared for him, I was just trying to walk around and be like, "Keep his energy good everybody. He's about to sing for the first time!" [Laughs.]

Caleb: During the performance, my arms went completely numb and it was slowly going up my arms. And so I was singing and at the same time I was thinking, "You better not pass out on live television." I took my hand off the mic stand for one second and it went like this. [Shakes hand.] I had to put it back on the mic stand.

Georgia: It's scary! It's scary singing on TV.

Caleb: I guess, yeah, writing that song, there's a large stigma around men and mental health and that, you know, you gotta be tough and keep your feelings in. But it's actually really relieving to let out feelings and talk about them and, I guess, just trying to encourage that with more men and—

Georgia: People.

Caleb: —especially men, but everybody. Therapy's pretty awesome. [Chuckles.]

Growing up in New Zealand, it sounds like you guys had a pretty musical upbringing at home. When did you first start making music and then when did it maybe shift to, "Okay, I think I wanna be a musician"?

Georgia: I think music has just been the focal point of our lives, since day one really. Our parents have always, you know, made it such a huge part of—

Caleb: Just day-to-day life.

Georgia: Yeah, day-to-day life, like connecting with other people and just literally something to do if we needed something to do.

Caleb: It was entertainment for us, really. It was just instruments everywhere.

Georgia: We'd just get pushed up in front of, like, the piano.

Caleb: And we weren't allowed to watch any TV shows basically, just because they were like, "Well you can do something better with your time. Go play guitar or sing or something."

Georgia: Thanks mom and dad. [Laughs.] And we started writing music pretty young too. I think I started trying to write music after my dad told me, about my favorite singer, "You know, she writes all of her own music. You can do that too!" And I was like, "Oh, okay!" I just went into my room and started writing songs. I was, like 10 and then I didn't really get good until I was about 16, 17 and had something to sing about. I guess for us, we didn't really have a choice really. We've just always done music and always had music be the main event everywhere we go. Every relationship that we've had that's lasted has been brought together with music. And I think for us it's just such a necessity for our own survival and sanity. To be in a career now that we get to do this and share our music specifically with people is pretty amazing.



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Throwback to these crisp do's

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Were your parents also musicians or where did that influence come from them?

Caleb: I don't know. Our parents were musicians in a hobby way, not professionally.

Georgia: Yeah, mom taught me to play the guitar though.

Caleb: She didn't teach me. I had many guitar teachers but I only had a couple lessons with each one because I couldn't really handle it. I ended up teaching myself. I wasn't very good with direction as a child.

Georgia: Just a little bit too all over the place.

Georgia: But yeah, our parents sang a lot. They'd sing at weddings and church and my mom ran the choir at our elementary school.

Caleb: Which I was very upset about because she made me stay in it. Georgia wanted to be in it, didn't you?

Georgia: Well, she'd do this thing, where she goes—

Caleb: It was at recess, so you had to go and sing at choir during your break time.

Georgia: I kind of just wanted to play.

Caleb: I just wanted to kick balls around.

Georgia: My mom, wow, she'd do this thing. Every time I tried to quit the choir she'd be like, "Oh I thought you wanted to be a singer..." And I was like, "I do! I do want to be a singer, mum!" And she's like, "Well, you gotta take every opportunity then."

Caleb: I said, "Mom I don't want to be a singer. Why do I have to be here?"

Georgia: Well look at you now! I think our parents were huge in making us actually stick to all these comments about wanting to pursue music. They saw how much it was a part of us and I think they never forced it but they did tell us, "If you want to do it, then you're gonna have to work really, really hard and have to have really thick skin. And you're gonna have to be able to deal with disappointment and discipline." So I think that was really important.

Caleb: And I still can't handle any of those things.

Georgia: It's really hard. But it's also really worth it.

What was each of yours first CD and first concert you attended? Your early musical loves.

Caleb: I think we got cassette tapes, didn't we?

Georgia: Yeah we got cassette tapes. You got Robbie Williams, I got the Vengaboys.

Caleb: No I got Ricky Martin, "Livin' La Vida Loca."

Georgia: And the first CD I ever bought myself was the single "Lucky" by Britney Spears.

Caleb: Mine was Bob Marley: Greatest Hits, the gold album.

Georgia: Yeah, that's definitely had more spins than the Britney Spears. Sorry Britney.

Caleb: "Toxic" though, many spins.

If you could perform with any artist dead or alive, who would it be?

Georgia: Probably Bob Marley. I don't think I'd want to perform with him though, I'd just want to watch him. I think that still makes me pretty sad sometimes when I know that I'm never gonna see him live. I just feel like it would complete me as a person.

Caleb: Yeah. I'd have to almost agree fully on that one. I think there were a couple years where I strictly listen to Bob and pretty much nobody else.

Georgia: Which meant that I strictly would listen to Bob.

Caleb: So I think that's where it came from. My big brother introduced me to Bob Marley when I was 13 and that was the end of it.

Georgia: I'm surprised that we're not a reggae band!

Caleb: Yeah. I feel like I'd want to see Blondie. Done. Like a king.

Georgia: You'd want to perform with Blondie? I'd want to perform with Blondie.

Caleb: Yeah I feel like that would be so fun.

Georgia: I feel like we'd be great together. Me and Debs. I kind of look like Debs in this sexy tank. Have you seen that picture of Debs in the sexy tank? It's a good one!

I love it. So we're gonna resurrect Bob Marley and see him perform. You'll open with Blondie for Bob Marley?

Georgia: We'll open with Debs. Yep.

Caleb: At Red Rocks.

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