Jennifer Higdon

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How Female Classical Composers Are Encouraging Gender Equality

This year’s GRAMMY-winning Classical composer, Jennifer Higdon, speaks with the Recording Academy about how to succeed as a woman in this male-dominated industry

Crystal A. Frost

GRAMMYs

Apr 8, 2020 - 10:19 am

Throughout music history's illustrious, centuries-long repertoire of eclectic creations and multicultural musical endeavors, women composers have been continuously silenced. Plagued by the harrowing struggle to have their voices heard, only a handful of pre-20th century women who dared to compose actually won the battle to be performed, recorded, and remembered. Any scholar of Western classical music can attest to the fact that Fanny Mendelssohn, Cécile Chaminade, and Clara Schumann are three of the few pre-20th century women composers whose names come up in conversation on a regular basis in the classical community. In fact, Clara Schumann was an example of a composer who, if not for her husband and father encouraging and believing in her, would have turned away from pursuing her creative dreams.

"I once believed that I possessed creative talent, but I have given up this idea… a woman must not desire to compose — there has never yet been one able to do it. Should I expect to be the one? It would be arrogance..." - Clara Schumann

For 20th-century women composers, there were noticeable improvements. British composer Ethel Smyth, for instance, took part in the Women’s Suffrage movement in England, composing the official anthem of the Women's Social and Political Union entitled, "The March of the Women." The uplifting song, which has been arranged for choir, orchestra and even saxophone quintet, reached the ears of the entire nation and goes down in history as one of the early testaments to women’s compositional potential.

But was it enough to kickstart real change? In 1903, Smyth became the first woman to ever have an opera presented by the great Metropolitan Opera in New York when they performed Der Wald. Why didn’t the Met embrace another female-composed opera until 2017, more than a century later?

"Comrades, ye who have dared, first in the battle to strive and sorrow. Scorned, spurned, naught have you cared - raising your eyes to a wider ‘morrow." - Excerpt from Ethel Smyth’s "The March of the Women"

The year 2020 marks the first in history that three women have been nominated for the GRAMMY for Best Contemporary Classical Composition in the same year: Caroline Shaw, Julia Wolfe and Jennifer Higdon, who walked away with the award for her groundbreaking Harp Concerto, which Gramophone described as "a delight," performed by harpist Yolanda Kondonassis. In total, only three women have won this GRAMMY in Recording Academy history, and only seven women have ever been nominated. But thanks to the determination of longtime disadvantaged female composers, the field of classical music - one which is easy to perceive as dated—is on a path towards progress. Classical composers like GRAMMY award-winning Joan Tower, GRAMMY award-nominated Missy Mazzoli, and Pulitzer prize-winning Ellen Reid have demonstrated to the classical community—and the world—that women composers have been silenced for long enough.

This year’s GRAMMY-winning composer Jennifer Higdon faced her fair share of challenges early on in her career. Getting her start at age 15 when she taught herself to play the flute, it took years before Higdon developed her striking rhythmic, neo-romantic style, and more than a decade before she would be taken seriously by the classical community. But several concertos, an opera and three GRAMMYs later, Higdon’s list of accomplishments is as long as it is rich, even marveling fans as recently as two weeks ago when the Library of Congress announced that Higdon’s GRAMMY-winning Percussion Concerto has been inducted into the National Recording Registry. Higdon, who is currently practicing social distancing at her home in Philadelphia while she works on her upcoming opera Woman With Eyes Closed, took a break to share a few lessons with us about how she arrived at this level of success, how she remains proactive, and how other women can follow in her footsteps.

Program Directors are out there looking

When asked about what improvements are still needed in the classical community, Higdon replied, "I want to see more women on programs." And Higdon makes a strong point, given that only 1.8 percent of music performed by the top 22 orchestras in the United States included women composers in their programming, according to a survey of the 2014-2015 concert season. And among living composers being programmed, women accounted only 14%, which means we can’t go blaming Beethoven and Mozart for the imbalance.

The question begs to be asked: why do we still see this imbalance in concert programming? According to Higdon, there are several right answers, and they don’t all involve gender bias. “Sometimes people just don’t know enough women composers. They just don’t realize how many women are out there working—working hard,” Higdon explains. The truth is, women composers are out there—just as many as there are men. In fact, at the Curtis Institute where Higdon has taught composition since 1994, more than half of her composition students are women.

Thankfully though, according to Higdon, in the past couple of years, people have become a lot more cognizant of the fact that there aren’t enough women composers on classical concerts. "It’s getting better, but I think there’s lots of room for improvement." She goes on to explain how, more and more often, artistic administrators who do the programming for orchestras are starting to look around for women composers to include in their concerts.

When the answer is gender bias, people are not inclined to share their biases and prejudices anyway. "People don’t come up and tell you, ‘Oh we’re not going to program you because you’re a woman,'" Jennifer explains. Consequently, women composers can be left questioning themselves, in the dark as to why they aren’t being heard. But Higdon is a radiant picture of steadfast perseverance, as no ounce of prejudice was ever enough to stop her from creating her best work. "I can remember in the early days when I was starting my career, probably in the late 90s, people were saying things to me like ‘I can’t believe a woman wrote that.'" At first, Higdon’s reaction to comments like these was to ask, "Really? What does that mean exactly?" But eventually, her response evolved into, "Yeah, a woman wrote it! It’s a fact. You need to get used to it."

We succeed when we unite

Another lesson we can learn from Higdon is that women get further when they unite and help each other. In 2010, Higdon won the Pulitzer Prize for her Violin Concerto, which the Pulitzer committee described as "deeply engaging...combin[ing] flowing lyricism with dazzling virtuosity." It’s clear the experience was both humbling and overwhelming for Higdon. "The expectations are so high…I must’ve done at least 200 interviews in two weeks," she recalls. So when female composer Caroline Shaw won the prize a few years later, Higdon did not hesitate to help. "Right after winning the Pulitzer, she came down to Philadelphia and we talked about trying to cope with the intensity of that prize—how it’s a little overwhelming," Higdon shares. "We sat down and had coffee and talked about my experience, and how to not let the pressure drop down on your shoulders."

Higdon also makes a point to promote her female peers as often as she can. "Sometimes an orchestra will contact me and ask me for suggestions of composers they should check out, so I have a list of women composers that I will send," she describes. "I'll ask them what they’re looking for and then pass along as many names as I can." Higdon’s approach is a refreshingly simple yet positive way of being proactive.

The community of women in classical music is vast, and their ability to unite rather than compete is how they are succeeding. One album released last year, Project W (the "w" standing for "women") is an excellent tribute to women composers’ efforts by the Chicago Sinfonietta, which is known for doing works by people of color and women. Featuring only new orchestral works by female composers, the album is also conducted by world-renowned female conductor Mei-Ann Chen, whom Higdon describes as a "dynamo" when it comes to inclusivity.

Organizations like Women in Music (WIM) have also aided this move towards progress. Founded in 1985, WIM is a non-profit organization out of New York that is committed to educating, empowering and advancing women in the music industry.

Let your music do the talking

Perhaps the most important lesson emphasized by Higdon is that no composer should ever give up and stop writing, even if she feels excluded, outnumbered, or unheard. "Keep writing the best music that you can," Higdon says. "That’s going to be the best argument to get your music out there; to have music where people go, ‘Oh, I want to hear that again!'" The sound advice is as empowering as it is true, for it comes from one of America’s most performed living composers. It is Higdon’s experience that if you keep creating your best work, eventually the fact that you’re a woman will become less and less relevant. The music will speak for itself.

“Keep writing the best music that you can. That’s going to be the best argument to get your music out there; to have music where people go, ‘Oh, I want to hear that again!’” - Jennifer Higdon

Grammys Newsletter

Elaine Martone at the 62nd GRAMMY Awards in 2020

Photo: Jon Kopaloff/FilmMagic

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How Elaine Martone Overcame Self-Doubt And Became A Legendary Classical & Jazz Producer

Women may be underrepresented in the production world, but one of its very best in classical and jazz is Elaine Martone—she opens up to GRAMMY.com about her life and career

Lior Phillips

Membership

May 14, 2021 - 10:56 am

Elaine Martone had her sights set on a life in the orchestra early on, but her quest to become a musician was missing one thing. With a degree in performance in hand from Ithaca College, while working her way into shape to audition for orchestras as an oboist, she took on a job at the classical music label Telarc as a way to earn a living while auditioning. She settled in Cleveland, Ohio, because the Cleveland Orchestra was there, and oboists with whom she studied.

But although her musical talents ran deep, "I lacked self-confidence," Martone tells GRAMMY.com. "And if a musician doesn't have confidence in themself, nobody's going to give that to them."

Rather than let that hurdle be her downfall, she dug deeper into her work at Telarc to figure out how she could create and bolster that confidence in other musicians. Martone built a GRAMMY-winning career as a recording producer specializing in classical and jazz. "Funnily enough, I'm actually producing the Cleveland Orchestra's online season now," she chuckles. "My life has made a nice full circle."

At the time she joined Telarc, the label had been in business less than three years. Founded by Jack Renner and Robert Woods (who Martone later married), the label was built for audiophiles and passionately focused on its music niche. "This was before the advent of CDs, but we were already recording with digital technology. By the time CDs came out, we were poised with high-quality recordings. And it was in Cleveland, an unusual place for a record label," Martone says with a laugh. "I knew I was on the ground floor of something cool."

Martone quickly grasped the intricacies of the recording process and learning to edit and produce recording sessions—an unusual role for a woman in the industry, both then and now. But Telarc was a new enough venture with plenty of opportunities, and its founders nurtured and encouraged her growth. Over time, the staff grew to about 50 and Martone ran the production department of 12.

"I never felt held back as a woman. I felt very lucky to grow a department and hire the right people," she says. "A key skill for my work as a producer is that I'm nurturing. I like being of service, including mentoring young women. Women represented about half of my staff."

Throughout her decades-long career, Martone indulged in her passion for orchestral music and produced essential records for legends in that genre and others. Due to her nurturing style, she made close friends along the way, producing the last 18 albums by jazz bassist Ray Brown. Since 2000, she also collaborated to great acclaim with Atlanta Symphony Orchestra music director Robert Spano and has worked with the GRAMMY-winning composer Jennifer Higdon, among many others.

Early on, Martone set her sights on winning a GRAMMY before she turned 50. "My husband has 13 GRAMMYs, and he started winning them when he was 30," she says. "So, I had a long way to go to 'catch up'. In 2006, I won Classical Producer of the Year, which is the most coveted award in my field. I also have a Latin GRAMMY, and I won a jazz GRAMMY for McCoy Tyner's Illuminations. Especially as women, we denigrate ourselves thinking that if we hide a little bit, people won't take shots at us. But I decided I wasn't going to do that back then, that I was going to play full out, and that I was going to win. Five GRAMMYs later, it's a big honor and a privilege."

Martone's ability to build relationships has been particularly key to connecting through the pandemic. "The sense of community that I've felt through the GRAMMY organization and MusiCares has been incredible and has helped out a few friends that were really in need," Martone says.

Connection-building was necessary for her production career as well. Having produced the Cleveland Orchestra in the past, the organization reached out to Martone directly to produce their virtual season. "They're arguably the greatest orchestra in the world, and they're right here," she says. "They had the bonus of my 41 years of experience. I've needed to use all of that. I have been so proud of all of us in this creative community because we kept hope and inspiration alive."

Taking that inspiration, Martone approached the Orchestra's virtual season seeing opportunities to create a new experience rather than seeing limitations. "Cleveland Clinic was advising the Orchestra, and that included not using winds or brass," she says. "So we started with 42 string musicians distanced nine feet apart. That's no way to make a very good ensemble, but the thing that's beautiful about the Cleveland Orchestra is their sense of blend and ensemble and being able to respond very nimbly. Producing what amounted to two records a week in this virtual season has been a production schedule on steroids."

Another of Martone's pandemic highlights has been producing new records from the GRAMMY-winning percussion ensemble Third Coast Percussion and Atlanta Symphony Orchestra harpist Elisabeth Remy Johnson. "Elisabeth messaged me and said she was interested in a record with all women composers, composers who were neglected like Amy Beach and Fanny Mendelssohn," Martone explains. "We worked remotely during the Pandemic. The Oregon Music Festival is also considering a recording at Abbey Road in November, also with all women composers and has asked me to produce. I feel inspired and energized by these projects."

Whether in her earliest recording sessions or the heart of the pandemic, the factor uniting Martone's experiences has always been her love of the creative process—and of being in the same space as people reaching their peak. "When I'm producing, I can't be thinking of anything else at the moment," she says. "I'm in the state of flow, almost an active meditative state. That's helped me work on over 200 records. Making a difference for others and having fun makes for a life well-lived."

For the past 60 years, the Recording Academy's Chicago Chapter has recognized and celebrated the creative accomplishments of our members across the Midwest, fought for their collective rights, and supported them in times of need. We are proud of our legacies and excited to continue looking ahead. Here's to the next 60.

How Female Classical Composers Are Encouraging Gender Equality

Concetta Abbate

Photo: Vera Comploj & Erika Kapin

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Violinist Concetta Abbate Talks Trauma, Empathy & The Healing Process Of 'Mirror Touch'

The prolific musician and music teacher shares the process of creating a poignant album from candid conversations with women and people who identify as nonbinary

Robert Ham

MusiCares

Sep 25, 2020 - 9:07 am

When violinist Concetta Abbate set about writing her second album Mirror Touch, she had a clear vision in mind: to reveal the scars of some trauma from her past and how making music helped her through it. But as she started speaking about the project with friends and other people in her orbit, they started to open up to her about their experiences and struggles.

“They’d say, ‘I want to contribute something. I have some perspective on it,’” Abbate says, speaking from her home in Brooklyn. “Because when you share your own story, people feel comfortable and compelled to share their stories.”

Inspired and moved by what she was hearing, Abbate decided to open these songs up wider. She began a series of conversations with a variety of women and people who identify as nonbinary dealing with mental health issues, and learning how hard it can often be for those folks to advocate for themselves and engage in self care.

From those freeform chats, Abbate composed a suite of 12 gorgeous songs that float between the worlds of modern classical and neo-folk. Using her violin and delicate vocals as a starting point, she relied on spare instrumentation—lightly played drums, guitar, and woodwinds) and a lot of open space. That leaves a lot of room to focus on Abbate’s lyrics, which filters the many stories she heard and absorbed into poignant, poetic verses that use just enough detail to be recognizable to the people that inspired her words, but open-ended enough to allow anyone to find solace within them.

In between giving lessons at Teacup Music, the community music school she founded, and working on new material, Abbate spoke with the us about the creation of Mirror Touch, the therapeutic power of music, and why self-care is so vital to us all.

What can you tell me about the experience of interviewing people for Mirror Touch?

It wasn’t really interviews so much as conversations with people where we found the commonalities in our experiences. That was where I started to think about this concept of mirror touch, which is a really extreme form of empathy. It’s actually a neurodiverse condition—an extreme version of synesthesia where if they see somebody, say, holding a cold glass of water, they actually feel the cold glass of water on their hands. I think a lot of artists are on that spectrum and can relate to going through the world in a kind of porous way.

It can be a difficult thing for anyone to bear the weight of hearing people’s stories of trauma or anxieties. Was that something you were worried about or were you able to keep yourself at a slight remove?

A large part of my livelihood is being a music teacher. I run a private school in Brooklyn teaching adults and kids. When you work one-on-one with someone, you end up being the first person to hear about a lot of difficult situations. It’s something that, as a music teacher, you don’t really get trained to deal with because you’re not a therapist. But the reality is that there’s some overlap there. Once I confirmed it that actually made me a lot more confident when other people approached me with things that are going on. And it actually makes my music lessons a whole lot more productive. So much of that external stuff gets wrapped up in performance anxiety and feeling stuck when you’re practicing. I feel I grew a lot in terms of feeling prepared to have these kinds of conversations with people.

I feel like this record comes along at a strangely perfect time in our world. With so much extra time on our hands, people are going through periods of introspection.

I actually started working on the album three years ago and I had finished recording it last summer. Then I had a hand injury in the fall. I was going to put it out earlier, but it just so happens that it’s coming out now. It’s a weird time to be putting music out because I feel like I don’t know if I should be drawing attention to myself right now. But people really want music to listen to and I feel that, because of all the time I invested in this project, I know that it’s valuable and I know people are going to get something useful out of it.

Was there an aha moment for you when you realized how therapeutic music was for you?

I used to practice for hours and hours when I was in high school, any chance I could get. I just loved practicing violin and viola. At the time, I was not aware that that was a coping mechanism. I had to find a balance in my life. I can’t practice for eight hours a day. I have to work. I think the aha moment came from teaching other people. You see similar patterns. You’ll hear another person express something, and you’re like, “I wish I had that awareness when I was a teenager.” But it’s good. You’re given that gift, and now you might be able to do something about it. That’s why conversation and listening and empathy and validation are so important. As we share perspectives, we build and grow.

Was it a conscious decision to only speak with women and nonbinary people for this project?

It was kind of a coincidence. It wasn’t anything I actually thought out. But I think, historically, certain demographics of people feel more comfortable talking to me. I could also be because men are less likely to express personal feelings and emotions. But if enough people are willing to share their stories, the systemic problems of society start to reveal themselves. You start to see repeated patterns in these stories. Like, “The doctor invalidated my complaints about my pain.” Or “They didn’t respond quickly enough when I had this problem.” I think that’s the value of group storytelling. It’s something I think about a lot. What does that say? What does that reveal about our society?

How much did the conversations you were having inform the writing of the music? Or was the music already mapped out before those happened?

I’d say they definitely informed the way the music sounds. It wasn’t an afterthought. There were two people that I spoke to and connected with artistically that passed away, and I posthumously wrote music for them. When they were gone, it was like, “Oh, this is what I got out of this person’s story,” and it became a direct response to their life. There was one track called “Mis,” which came from a very direct interview with a friend who said, “I want you to write a song for me!” There are some that are little more vague. “Forgetful” is about a few different people. I was reflecting on their experiences and it all meshed together.

Have you played the songs for the people they were written about? How did they respond to what you created?

They loved it. They were really happy to have this collaborative dynamic. There’s one piece that I wrote for this friend who passed away. I have not shared with their family yet. I’m still holding off on it because I really want to make a video for it, and I’m not really sure how their family will react to it. It’s always a risk when you make a piece of art to see how people will interpret it and receive it. But overall, it’s been a good experience.

You've also talked about the importance of self care, and I feel like music plays a part in that.

Yeah! I grew up in a really competitive world with music when i was very young. I was doing a lot of concerto competitions from the time I was in elementary school. I remember wanting to quit and not wanting to play. But when I didn’t play, all of the sudden I had this big question about my identity. And this was all before the age of 12! [laughs] “Who am I if I don’t play violin? No one’s going to value me.” I started realizing that there are so many other values that I get from practicing and learning music. I realized that I couldn’t sustainably play music if winning a competition was my only motivation.

That’s the way I teach music. With all my students, we talk about what we love about practicing. I’ve chosen to devote a lot of time to figuring out how music can be the most beneficial for the person that’s practicing it, and to take away performing for other people as the ultimate goal. I have students who never perform but they play every day. There’s something really special about that—that music is a personal thing instead of a product.

What do you want people to take away from Mirror Touch?

There’s a lot of space in the music, and silence. The instrumentation is really spare and sparse. And that’s really intentional. When we have conversations, there should be a lot of moments of silence and listening. And when there’s space, there’s room for the listener to give the conversation their own meaning. In the sense of the music, with such sparse instrumentation, you can be really creative and you can imbue your own meaning on to it. It’s only giving you the basic outline. I hope that people reflect on communication and how they communicate and how music is linguistic. It’s conversational.

Inside VAULT Productions' Real-Time Doc On Electronic Music's Evolution During The Pandemic

Lang Lang at St. Thomas Church in Leipzig, Germany

Photo by Stefan Hoederath

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Lang Lang On The Inspiration Behind His Latest Album & Why Aspiring Concert Pianists Should Never Give Up

The piano virtuoso opens up to GRAMMY.com about the ways in which he immersed himself in Bach's 'Goldberg Variations' and the deeper inspiration behind his new album

Crystal A. Frost

GRAMMYs

Sep 20, 2020 - 8:00 am

Optimistic, bold and authentic—who better to take on the Goldberg Variations than 38-year-old piano virtuoso, Lang Lang? The GRAMMY-nominated concert pianist and philanthropist released his 10th studio album on Sept. 4, fulfilling one of his lifelong dreams of recording Johann Sebastian Bach’s most challenging solo keyboard work, the Goldberg Variations. First published in 1741, the work consists of a theme and 30 variations and was written for a young keyboardist named Johann Goldberg to play for the Russian Ambassador, Count Keyserling, as a treatment for his insomnia.

Lang Lang, whose music career began 20 years ago when he was barely 18 years old, has built up to this moment for all two decades, having also studied the beloved Bach piece in his youth, like young Goldberg. For this groundbreaking two-part recording project, the Beijing-based pianist traveled to Bach’s very own St. Thomas Church in Leipzig, Germany, where he recorded the work both live in concert as well as in the studio in Berlin.

In this interview, Lang Lang opens up about the ways in which he immersed himself in Bach’s world and the deeper inspiration behind his new album. Read on to learn what sets Bach apart from other composers, and why young pianists should never give up their dreams.

You just completed a massive project which involved recording and performing one of Johann Sebastian Bach’s most important works in his very own St. Thomas Church in Leipzig, Germany. What was this experience like for you?

It was like playing next to Bach’s spirit. It’s unbelievable that he worked the rest of his life there, from age 38! I also played his Baroque organ, which still looks almost the same as when he was there. In fact, I visited several other locations with Bach history in order to connect with him. On the way to the St. Thomas Church, I stopped at his first job’s location in Arnstadt, Germany, where I tried his very first Baroque organ. I also went to his home, which is now a museum in Leipzig, and played the Goldberg music from his original manuscript on his harpsichord! It is really incredible—it is almost like he is still alive.

What is it that you love about Bach that sets him apart from all of the other composers?

Bach was the beginning of a huge generation to come. For us concert pianists, Bach made so many voices with his mathematical methods. His music was not only horizontal and melodic, but vertical—making the keyboard sound like a symphonic orchestra! Before Bach, music was melody-driven and, while it had beautiful melodies and nice feelings, it didn’t have bricks. After Bach, the harmonic component of music became much more solid—he built pyramids with music. In a way, he is the greatest architect of classical music.

I understand that you studied Bach’s Goldberg Variations when you were just a teenager. Is it true that you performed this major work in full at just 17 years old?

Yes, I was a replacement of Andre Watts at Chicago’s Ravinia Festival. It started when I played a Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto, which was my first time playing in one of the major five American Orchestras. I was so overwhelmed after the concert, and then Christoph Eschenbach and a few other musicians asked me whether I can play more music…specifically Bach, who is considered more challenging than Tchaikovsky. I told them, “Yeah! I know the Goldberg Variations." He said "Okay. Do you want to do it?" It was crazy and I decided, "Yeah, yeah sure let’s do it!" So I played the whole thing actually, that night, and that was my first big public appearance.

The Goldberg Variations is such a massive, complex body of work. How did you begin intricately studying something so giant at such a young age? What was your secret?

I watched a film, on video cassette at that time, of Glenn Gould playing The Goldberg Variations in 1981. This was 1992 when I was 10 years old. I was watching Glenn Gould play this on the crappy television, and I thought to myself, "Wow! I never thought Bach could be played this way!" Until that point, I was quite reserved when I would play Bach because I always thought Bach was very strict, where you can’t do crazy things. And then I see Glenn Gould—he played with such excitement and everything he was doing was so unusual, so exciting, and so beautiful! It was then that I realized, wow—you can actually play Bach in a much more emotional way than I originally thought. So I began practicing the Goldberg Variations as an exercise, and that is how it all started.

Lang Lang performs Bach's Goldberg Variations at the St. Thomas Church in Leipzig, Germany.
Photo credit: Stefan Hoederath

And now we fast forward 20 years later when you are 38—just like Bach was when he began working at St. Thomas Church. Are there any important lessons you drew from your younger self or others as you began this new recording project?

I think the greatest part about starting so young is I was able to memorize it so well for this project—it is a very hard piece to memorize! But the more important development occurred in the last three years as I began getting into the Baroque style on actual Baroque instruments. This is something that I never had training in as a kid because I was always just playing on the piano. As you know, piano is a very different instrument from the harpsichord or the organ. Though there is an authentic way of playing Bach on the piano, I decided to go and study with a harpsichordist Andreas Staier, a German Baroque master. It was he who really helped me to understand everything: the structure of the Baroque sound, the strategy, and more importantly, how to work on the slower passages.

It seems like so much goes into learning Bach! What else makes Bach’s music unique?

To play Bach is really like playing jazz music. The reason I’m saying that is because, in classical repertoire, like Beethoven or Brahms, if you change even one note you are probably already dead to the classical music community. But in Bach’s Baroque music, you get to add all different sorts of ornamentations. In fact, all across the Baroque repertoire in France and Italy as well, there were so many decoration notes and ornamentations! Because of this, every night you are playing the piece a little differently, so in that way you are really like a jazz musician. Bach also never writes dynamics or articulations clearly, giving us much more room to do improvisation. To me this is still unbelievable, and a great advantage.

This album features two full recordings of the Goldberg Variations—one in concert, and one in the studio. You pointed out that performing live in concert you get to enjoy the work as a collective whole, but in the studio you get to enjoy the nuánces of each individual movement. Which of these recording environments do you prefer, and why?

Actually, I love both! The studio is very great because I can be relaxed and take a lot of time to listen back, and if I don’t like something, I can re-record it. Glenn Gould said he 100% prefers studio recording for Bach; that way he can work really hard and have a timeless piece. This is why I decided to record the Goldberg Variations in the studio. But at the same time, I first wanted to have the experience of recording the piece at Bach’s church in Leipzig in order to feel Bach’s original spontaneous feelings. If I had known it was going to be such a magical night though, I would have had eight cameras and an entire crew! The live recording sounds like an old record, and that is only because of the sound of the church. That kind of sound you can not copy in the recording studio; you cannot mimic that atmosphere. In the studio, you do everything five times. So, while it also comes from the heart, it doesn’t have the sincerity and authenticity of the concert hall where all you have is that one beautiful moment.

Which of the 30 Goldberg Variations is your favorite?

My favorite variation is Variation 25—it’s the slowest, most painful, and struggling, but with real hope. It’s almost like snails trying to climb the mountain; even though it feels like he/she goes one step forward and two steps back, it’s still going up very slowly, which is why I really think this variation is the most special one. To practice, I would say Variation 26. This is a great variation; a very joyful one to practice.

When you look back on the past two decades, what other music projects or achievements are you the most proud of?

I would say my Carnegie Hall Live in 2003 is something that I feel very proud of, and it was also my Carnegie Hall recital debut. Also, my recording with Maestro Nikolaus Harnoncourt, The Mozart Album, is another I feel very proud of. And then, there is one more: Prokofiev 3 and Bartok 2 with The Berlin Philharmonic. Of course every recording I try my best, I really do, but I think for these recordings I had a more personal means of expressing on behalf of the composer, and expressing the piece itself. I feel you must really know the historical context and take a lot of time in order to understand these particular composers. This is completely unlike composers from the Romantic Era because, even though you may not know their lives so well, their music is so emotional that you can just receive their spirit very easily. But with Mozart, Bach and even Bartok, you have to really dig. Bartok actually has a very dry sense of humor…it is like he knows something mysterious from another part of the universe!

You’ve collaborated with Metallica, Herbie Hancock and many other big names in the past. Do you have any other big collaborations coming up after the pandemic ends?

Well, I was very excited when actually during the pandemic I had a collaboration with Celine Dion, John Legend and Lady Gaga for the One World concert back in April. I was really grateful to be a part of that. I am also grateful to the GRAMMYs though, actually, because they are sort of responsible for several of my collaborations. Who knows, maybe my next one will be with some other big pop artist or something EDM! That’s what’s so great about the GRAMMYs—there are no limits—only good music!

Speaking of your virtual concert in April, how has the quarantine been for you?

I'm okay. I have spent the time practicing at home and learning new repertoire. I am also teaching. We have many schools both in America and China, so we decided to begin a lot of online teaching. In fact, we are also planning a virtual concert at my Foundation, which is in partnership with the GRAMMY foundation for music education. The virtual concert will be in December for all of our music students in America, China and parts of Europe to do performances, and professional musicians who are involved will give talks about the importance of music education in the world. So the quarantine is not great, not ideal, but it's okay.

What are some words of wisdom that you would like to share with young pianists who look up to you and are pursuing a career as a concert pianist?

I would say, never give up your musical dream. Know that it is really hard to become a professional musician, so you have to be really strong in both your mind and in your heart. There will be a lot of difficulties in life, but music really makes us think much bigger than who we really are. Music really brings us to another dimension in life, so the goal is to always remain fresh with your music-making. As a professional player, you can get bored of practicing and lose direction, but you must never stop searching for new ways to improve yourself. That flame, our fire in our heart, it is passionate and can be disorganized but we must continue to practice music every day to never let the flame die.

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Chloe Flower

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Where Do Pop And Classical Music Truly Meet? Cardi B Pianist Chloe Flower May Have The Answer

Chloe Flower initially made waves by accompanying Cardi B at the GRAMMYs, but the pianist-composer isn't done with us yet. Her debut, self-titled album is one of the most believable fusions of pop and classical yet

Morgan Enos

GRAMMYs

Aug 23, 2021 - 1:06 pm

Chloe Flower may have landed in the public consciousness by accompanying Cardi B at the 61st GRAMMY Awards, but two years later, she's not fading away. The classical pianist and composer wants to fuse pop and classical in a more encompassing way. Welcome to Popsical, Flower's self-conceived genre tag that aims to close the gap between trap beats and Franz Liszt.

"To me, the whole idea of Popsical is that I felt instrumental music had that stigma. It had to be a certain way," Flower tells GRAMMY.com over Zoom from her Manhattan high-rise. "People told me my entire life 'You have to be really successful in solo piano first before you can add drum beats to something.'" Because Flower loves all kinds of music, from pop to reggaetón, this was a quandary for years. But on her debut, self-titled album, her catholic inspirations have blossomed big.

Chloe Flower, which dropped July 19 via Sony's Masterworks imprint, is the perfect entry point to the musical universe of Popsical. Subdivided into acts with narrations from alternative medicine king Deepak Chopra, the album splits the difference between classical orthodoxy ("Prelude No. 1") and full pop immersion (including an electrified cover of Billie Eilish's "Bad Guy").

While Flower has the headstrong personality and label encouragement to pull off such a feat, she's aware that few other women—especially those of color—have those resources and support systems. With the interest of making classical music a more attractive and inclusive arena, she has a few ideas as to how that world can open up to everybody, not just a few.

Read on for an in-depth interview with Flower about the nexus of pop and classical music, constructing Chloe Flower like a front-to-back cinematic experience, and how young women of color can be encouraged to become producers and composers.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

I'm a classical music fan, but I don't hear much about it outside of history books or the pages of The New York Times. What's the state of this artform?

I would say it's completely changing. Classical music is so different today, in 2021, than when I signed with Babyface in 2010. It was either crossover—there were a select few crossover artists—or it was strictly classical. I think [the shift is] because of social media, YouTube and all these other outlets, when people can express themselves in any way they want and it's not just up to The New York Times to decide something is cool or OK to do.

Who are the key people to know in modern classical?

There are so many new artists I've been following. I tend to follow pop artists, and that's part of the reason I wanted to start this Popsical movement. I didn't feel like there were enough people on the instrumentals. Not just classical music, but instrumental. People would always be like, "Oh, you play piano! You're like Kenny G!" but that's not the only sound there is—smooth jazz or adult contemporary.

That's why, back in the day, I loved Vanessa-Mae. She's one of the first crossover artists to come out of the U.K. She did Bach's Toccata in Fugue—a song I have on my album as well—with an EDM beat. EDM music doesn't resonate with me in the same way that a trap beat or hip-hop beat does, [but] I was always looking for that artist who was that mixture of pop and instrumental.

I think there must be other people out there who want to explore that instrumental space but don't necessarily fit into that Vanessa-Mae category or the Piano Guys category. I love Piano Guys. They're another crossover classical artist that has done so well. So successful. David Garrett is another one who's been so successful at the violin, doing crossover music, but so different from what I do.

I'm sure Babyface saw that versatility in you when you started working together.

Yeah, I was so shocked. He was the first producer I ever asked to work with me and he was the only one I'd heard of! I just cold-reached out to him on Google. I found his manager's email and just randomly sent him a demo. I think he understood that maybe there was a space here for a new kind of sound.

Deepak Chopra's presence on your debut album is interesting. He's synonymous with new age, a style I find a lot of value in that nonetheless gets a lot of flak.

When people say "new age," there's definitely a stigma associated with it. Even in film. You'll watch movies like [2001's] Serendipity from back in the day and see the crossover flutist, and it's kind of a joke in the movie. That has been the reputation of new age, but as with classical music, audiences are embracing a new style, a new sound. I think a lot of people nowadays are embracing spiritual and holistic health practices.

But for me, Deepak is a close friend. I've known him for many years. I know him personally and he really practices what he preaches. He's very authentic in what he believes. He is truly a believer that music is a powerful tool for healing. It was perfect for me because that's how I view music too. I believe music education should be as accessible as religion or sports education. It's completely inaccessible, and part of the reason is that there's no demand.

People think of instrumental music as Kenny G or new age. They think of it that way, so kids aren't demanding to learn an instrument because they don't necessarily want to. I feel that music is so important because it has that healing power.

We saw during the pandemic how music brought people together, from the people singing on balconies in Italy early on to people using pots and pans in New York City. We could hear it because we live right near a hospital [in Manhattan]. That was music too—it's all a form of sound and using that sound as therapy. You can listen to a song and be in a better mood or feel empowered to take action on something. Deepak shares that philosophy with me.

That's why I'm interested in new age. It has literal utility. And while your music has its own genre tag—Popsical—I can hear that component in your work as well.

I'm so honored and complimented by that! To me, the whole idea of Popsical is that I felt instrumental music had that stigma. It had to be a certain way. People told me my entire life "You have to be really successful in solo piano first before you can add drum beats to something."

I'm not just a solo pianist. I love trap music. I love beats. I love reggaetón. All these sounds together—they don't fit in any category. I really call my album an instrumental mixtape because it's all these different sounds. I can never fit into that classical crossover box ever.

Is there a barrier between young people and classical music that Popsical can traverse?

One of the things that is definitely becoming huge in the instrumental space is what we were talking about earlier: The utilitarian function of music. Peaceful piano, right? That's been huge on playlists: People listening to music in the background. But I feel like instrumental music is more than peaceful piano, [even though] that's a huge market. It's huge. But it doesn't necessarily translate into performance.

Like, would you go play a whole peaceful piano playlist in Madison Square Garden? Would someone buy tickets for that and listen to 90 minutes of peaceful piano? I'm not sure, but I think the market has expanded greatly because of that playlist and that sound in the background.

But the idea of Popsical, to me, is to generate demand in younger people. And not just in younger people, but older people too. I don't think it's ever too early or late to learn an instrument, or to listen to music in a different way—not just to sleep.

Beyond blurring styles, what was the artistic intent behind Chloe Flower?

My album is self-titled—not just because I produced and wrote it—but it was a reflection of me. Like I said earlier, I'm not just a solo pianist. On my album, there's actual works by classical composers and then there's solo piano music that's not classical—a little more pop with a pop structure. Then, there's trap beats.

Track 14 is called "POPSICAL," and it's called that because it's a medley of most of the songs I wrote on the album. It's a medley of those themes. It has a very cinematic quality—I imagined it to be like the end credits of The Sound of Music. That's what I was thinking when I wrote and arranged it. It's a reflection of me and the fact I'm not just one sound.

The label and I were really excited. It's risky for any label to do something that hasn't really been done often or well. It was scary, but it was really cool. I think that's the idea behind this: To showcase instrumental music and the way people listen to it in a different way.

It's interesting that you call it a mixtape when it's separated formally by acts. Was it challenging to square that circle?

No, actually, it was so perfect. That's partly why I had Deepak there. Because it's an instrumental album without lyrics, I wanted people to listen to the album however they want, but [also] from beginning to end, which is why it starts with the prelude and ends with the end credits—the big, thematic Hollywood ending.

Which instrumental records have you been checking out lately?

I actually listen to a lot—a lot—of classical music and Disney soundtracks. I've been listening to a lot of Leroy Anderson. Obviously, a lot of Liberace. I love his brother, George Liberace, who was kind of the quiet, silent partner behind Liberace. He wrote all the arrangements and orchestrated everything. He was a genius arranger. Vladimir Ashkenazy is one of my favorite pianists. I'm always listening to him and Evgeny Kissin.

How can young people interface with classical music in a way that doesn't involve dropping $400 on a ticket?

Totally. It's so inaccessible in that way. And you have to buy your outfit, because you have to dress up when you go to Lincoln Center. You can't just show up in sweats. I think using platforms like YouTube and TikTok [is the answer]. I see so many people who'll tag me doing the Cardi B cover or a classical cover. It's usually "Für Elise" or Bach's Toccata in Fugue, but they're doing it with their own trap beat and it sounds so cool.

As you start to research, you'll see a lot of instrumentalists out there. It's really cool.

I wonder if Popsical can show that classical can not just be melded with pop, but be pop. I'm pretty sure it was pop music hundreds of years ago.

Definitely. I think Mozart was the Justin Timberlake of his time.

I also [wanted to] tell a story. It's a musical journey from beginning to end. I thought of it as a life cycle. For me it was about, in essence, being born with a clean slate. The hardships of life and dealing with that. The darker songs are in the second act and Deepak talks a little bit about suffering. And then you end with hope. If people were to listen to it from beginning to end—which I hope they did—they would experience that with me.

Have you faced any discrimination in the music business based on who you are or what you look like?

I haven't had an experience that overt, but definitely, as a producer and composer, 100 percent I'm always the only woman. I'm typically the only woman in a studio. It's just me. That by itself is a problem, right? I have such a strong personality and I'm so used to not fitting in, so I can survive that kind of environment and [be] fine, but that's not the case for every woman out there.

I think it's important for there to be more female composers and producers. That's why my label and I wanted to call it Chloe Flower. "Produced by Chloe Flower. Written by Chloe Flower." Because, as a female and a person of color, I represent such a small group of people. Those numbers need to go up.

I met a girl who's 14 or 15 and she's Asian, and I'm working on a solo-piano Christmas album, so I told her I'd include one of her compositions. She's really good.

How do we encourage more young women of all backgrounds to enter this field?

I think definitely by promoting as many female producers and composers [as possible]. Not just artists. It's important. So many women don't get songwriting or producer credit. I've been in so many sessions where I play piano on songs and they look at me and go "You don't need the credit."

I've done so many free sessions that I joke about it. When I do a concert, I'm like, "That's a great fee, but if you divide it by the number of hours I've worked and practiced and done free sessions, it's like negative $1,000 an hour."

When I go into a studio and it's all dudes, it doesn't necessarily make me so excited to be in the studio. It's all the time, and I think when women see other women in the studio, it's more fun. It's more empowering than being the only girl.

So, I think it's definitely about promoting and highlighting and honoring these new, young, female composers and producers and showing other women it isn't just a male space.

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