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George Benson

Photo: Tabatha Fireman/Redferns

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George Benson Talks Tribute Album To Chuck Berry & Fats Domino: "The Songs are Still Ripe"

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The guitar great discusses his latest project honoring two of rock ‘n roll’s founding fathers by digging into their deep cuts
Morgan Enos
GRAMMYs
Apr 23, 2019 - 5:10 pm

When Provogue Records asked GRAMMY winner George Benson to record a covers album of Chuck Berry and Fats Domino, he enthusiastically jumped into what could have been a tired set of oldies -- and recorded a fresh romp through the origins of rock ‘n roll.

Not that the singer, songwriter and guitarist hadn’t tackled standards before. His body of work is filled with renditions of the Beatles, Miles Davis, Sam Cooke, and dozens more; his last album, 2013’s Inspiration, paid tribute to Nat King Cole.

Berry and Domino are a heady pair to pay tribute to, but Benson’s masterful touch makes it look like a breeze. Their outsized personalities made them early rock icons -- and much like Benson himself, they transcended musical lines of race, color and genre. And to him, the songs still have “poetic value” in 2019.

“They’re talking about the basics of life,” Benson says with a hint of awe. “Things that people come in contact with every day. And they put those lyrics together in a genius way.”

Berry and Domino are Rock ‘n Roll 101 at this point -- but as he dug deep, Benson found plenty of surprises. Producer Kevin Shirley suggested Berry’s “Havana Moon”; Benson had never previously heard the song. “It sounded very strange to me,” he admitted. “Like something Harry Belafonte would sing.” He let out an irresistible laugh. “But every woman who heard that song loved it!”

His covers of Domino, too, display an affection for the foundations of rock. When the record company asked him to tackle his “Walking to New Orleans,” his ears pricked up; he knew that would be the title.

“It gives them a little hint of what they’re going to be listening to,” he says. “It’s going to have a blues tint.” If you want a fun, breezy crash-course on how that blues sound shaped early rock, Walking to New Orleans is your trusty guide.

Here Benson talks more about about his musical roots, the challenges of covering Berry and Domino and how he balances his music career with being a family man of faith.

What made you want to honor Chuck Berry and Fats Domino in 2019?

The record company are the ones who inspired this record. They’re the ones who made the request for me to do this music. I thought it was strange at first, but after a while, I said, “You know, what a great idea!”

Because these were two icons who crossed over in a day when that was almost impossible. They crossed over in a big way, because they were two very, very strong personalities and their music was highly unique.

These two composers and musicians already had their hands on the vibe. Just to bring that forward is already a big reason why the record is successful so far. I think that’s the main thing. That people think you meant to play this record. You lose that vibe, I think you’ve lost them.

The lyrics to the songs were ripe for the time, and they’re still ripe. Because they’re talking about the basics of life. Things that people come in contact with every day. Their trials and tribulations. And in a genius way, they put those lyrics together. These guys were poets, you know? The stories have a poetic value, and they translate and communicate very well.

Recording Academy Remembers Fats Domino

What inspired you to cut this music in Nashville?

In Nashville, they wouldn’t question what you were doing. You wouldn’t have to make up things like you would in L.A. They know me too well. They know what I can do. And they would want to be on something different in L.A. In Nashville, they never ask one question, except “What are we playing next? What key is it in?” That’s about it.

There’s a crackly energy between you and the players. Were you trying to let your hair down and play some rock ‘n roll this time?

No, that was another decision on the record company’s part. They had heard me in that context. I couldn’t until it came back to me, because I used to play a lot of that type of music way back in the day, in the late ‘50s and early ‘60s.

We had to play a little bit of everything and listen to a little bit of everything, because that was what was on the radio and on the jukebox. I kind of filed that into a bag that I had gone through. I thought that was the end of it!

Do you remember the first time you heard Fats and Chuck? Did you ever come in contact with those guys?

Only once. I came into contact with Chuck Berry at a music store in L.A. I was doing a video interview and he was in there buying some strings or guitar picks or something like that. I went over and I said, “Mr. Berry, my name is George Benson.”  He turned around and shook my hand. “Yeah. Hi.” And then he went right back to what he was doing.

I had to quickly think of something to say. I asked, “Mr. Berry, in my show, I do the duck walk. Do you mind that I do the duck walk in my show?” And he turned around very quickly and said, “Can you?” And then he went right back to buying his guitar picks and his strings. That was the end of that.

Fats Domino, I had the offer to join his band many years ago. I think I was about 16, 17 years old, maybe. One of the guys who was working with him saw me playing somewhere and said, “Man, how’d you like to go on the road?” I never liked that idea, because I never saw anyone on the road who had anything. They all looked like they were tattered and broken-down.

So I said, “No, I never thought about going on the road.” And then he said, “Well, how would you like to gig with Fats Domino?” And I said, “Wow, that’s too heavy for me. I’m not that good a player. No, I couldn’t.” So I didn’t take the gig.

You picked some deeper Chuck Berry cuts, like “Nadine” and “Havana Moon.” Were you trying to honor his more lyrical side?

That might have been the conscious choice by the producer and the record company executive. I think they made a good choice of tunes. I had never heard “Havana Moon” before. It sounded very strange to me. Like a song that maybe Harry Belafonte would do. I didn’t think it particularly meant that much, but every woman who heard that song loved it. So they made good choices!

The title track is a poignant version of Fats’ “Walking to New Orleans.” What struck you about that song?

They had a name for the album. I can’t remember what it was. But when it came around to me, I said, “No, the obvious to me is Walking to New Orleans.” It gives them a little hint about what they’re going to be listening to. It’s going to have a blues tint to it and some very basic ideas. I thought that worked better. And they loved the idea. So that’s what we named it.

You’re a family man and a longtime member of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Is music still a big part of your daily life in both respects?

Keeping the balance was, is, difficult. Trying to get to the meetings when I was home. We put in our time every month. In forty years, I missed maybe one or two months, because I was out on the road. But yeah, music in my house every day. I practice almost every day, because it’s been the best way for me to keep abreast of things.

I learn something from every project. But music moves around a lot. You can’t depend on something you did 40 years ago. You’ve gotta keep coming up with something. They’ve already got those albums on their shelves. To try to keep new ideas going forward has been the challenge. We’ve been very successful at that.

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Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Lin-Manuel Miranda (L) and host/creator Hrishikesh Hirway (R) in "Song Exploder"

Photo: Eric Veras/Netflix

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Beat By Beat: How "Song Exploder" Unlocks The Intimacy Of Music And Creativity

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Based on the popular podcast, the newly launched Netflix series dissects classics and current hits one layer at a time, while host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway finds the human connection behind it all
John Ochoa
GRAMMYs
Oct 20, 2020 - 4:54 pm

Most people know "Song Exploder" as the popular podcast giving die-hard music fans a deep, inside look into the sonic mechanics behind their favorite tracks. A whole new class of music-heads now knows "Song Exploder" as the new Netflix series bringing the creativity behind music to the digital screen.

Originally launched as a podcast in 2014, "Song Exploder" dissects classic and current fan-favorite songs, with guest artists breaking down each individual track and element in detail to paint an intimate audio portrait of their art. The podcast, which has accumulated more than 60 million streams and downloads over the years and has hosted guests like U2, Selena Gomez, Björk, Fleetwood Mac, Solange and many others, now breathes new life as a Netflix docuseries. 

Introduced on the streaming platform at the beginning of October, "Song Exploder" adds an even deeper layer of storytelling and personal insight to the songs being deconstructed beat by beat. The show's inaugural four-episode run features Alicia Keys ("3 Hour Drive"), Lin-Manuel Miranda ("Wait For It" from "Hamilton"), R.E.M. ("Losing My Religion") and Ty Dolla $ign ("LA"). (Last week [Oct. 15], Netflix unveiled its next slate of guests for the show's second season, set to debut Dec. 15: Dua Lipa, The Killers, Nine Inch Nails and Natalia Lafourcade.

Whether in visual or podcast format, the core of "Song Exploder" remains the same: "an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs," host and creator Hrishikesh Hirway tells GRAMMY.com.

GRAMMY.com chatted with Hrishikesh Hirway about the human connection behind his new "Song Exploder" Netflix series and how he hopes the show will inspire others to create their own art.

You have an endless supply of songs from which to choose for any given "Song Exploder" episode, podcast and show. What needs to stand out in a song in order for you to develop it for "Song Exploder"?

The first step in the process is really identifying the artists before even getting to the song, because, frankly, I don't know necessarily which songs might have the best stories. The most famous songs don't necessarily have the most interesting stories, and the people who know that better than anyone are the people who made the songs.

But what I can try and determine is which artists seem really interesting and thoughtful, good storytellers, and who are also beloved by a lot of people. That's kind of where I start. And once I can get an artist onboard to talk about a song in this way, then I start the process of trying to narrow down which song it's going to be with them.

I feel like I don't know what the story [of the song] is all the time. There are a lot of songs that haven't necessarily been delved into, and frankly, I'm always interested in something like that ... where the backstory [of a song] hasn't been canonized and "Song Exploder" can be a place to tell it for the first time. So I really am relying on input from the artists ... The question that I ask them, frankly, is: Which of your songs do you feel the most emotional attachment to?

Ultimately, the most interesting stories, I think, when it comes to making songs or really making any kind of art, are about people and their feelings and the things that inspire them to make something at all. Even though the show is about music, it's also a portrait of each of these artists. In order to tell you something insightful, especially for it to be something that could be interesting to people who aren't people who make music themselves and also aren't necessarily even familiar with the artist or the song, it has to be something that connects to something in the human experience that feels significant.

I always try to make "Song Exploder" a show that reflected a broad range of genres and artists and backgrounds. So there's kind of almost a guarantee that you couldn't just get people hooked on the show based on who the artists were and what the songs were; I want everybody to watch every episode and listen to every episode of the podcast because I think that it's a worthwhile conversation to have. I think the creative process is something that's really fascinating in and of itself. It's an example of how people react to their own experience, to actually decide to make something based on their ideas, what they lived through, what they love ... The thing that I'm actually most interested in is that kind of emotional experience: the emotional attachment to the act of creating a piece of music.

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder"

Michael Stipe of R.E.M. in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

There's a moment in the R.E.M. episode where frontman Michael Stipe gets almost emotional listening to his own voice on the band's classic, "Losing My Religion," and hearing the song elements broken down and presented to him in such an intimate manner, even after so many years since the song's release. How do you go about getting artists to open up to you and dive into their art so deeply?

I think one thing that helps is that I'm not really approaching [the interview process] head-on, certainly not right away. The questions don't start off front and center in like an emotionally investigative way. I think I have to earn their trust first, and part of that is from talking about the mechanics of the process first. That's the entry point in all these conversations. One of the reasons why having the [song's] stems is important, not just in terms of letting the listeners know what's going on in the song, but in terms of being able to facilitate that conversation with the artist.

Of all of the questions, the hardest one to answer is probably, "Why?" "Why did you decide to make the song this way? Why did you write this lyric? Why did you choose this chord progression?" That's the hardest [question], but it's also the one that I'm most interested in. But it's a little easier to start off with, first of all, "What?" "What are we listening to?" And then to ask them, "OK, how did you make it? And when did you make it?" All those basic factual questions are a way to just let them and me submerge ourselves into the memories of making that song.

Once they're there and able to relive some of the experience of it by hearing the actual evidence of the stuff that they did on that day—hearing their voice, hearing the instrument, hearing the actual track that they recorded around that time—it's a lot easier to ask them to then dig a few layers deeper and ask what was going on in their lives and how that might've fed into some of those creative decisions.

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You're now juggling the show and the podcast. How do you decide what songs go on the podcast format and what goes in video format?

Well, the podcast is a lot of work for a podcast, but that means that I'm still able to turn around an episode in a few weeks, whereas the TV show takes a much longer time to put together. There are just so many more components to it, and it's so much more work.

Part of the pitch for doing the television show is that I was trying to ask these artists to take a leap of faith, [like,] "This is something that's going to take a while to make, so you can't tie it to your promotional calendar, necessarily. I can't guarantee that it'll come out on such and such date to coincide with your single release or something like that." It was really more like, "Would you like to participate in this thing where there'll be this really meticulously crafted mini-documentary about this work that you did, and it's sort of evergreen."

That's a different pitch than with the podcast. Although with the podcast, I say all those things, too. I say it's evergreen and it's always better when it's not necessarily tied to your release schedule and more like when people have had a chance to live with the song a little bit. But one of the advantages of the podcast is it can be a little more nimble because it's a little easier to put together.

So this is a long way of saying that a lot of times that question is answered by the artists themselves or their publicists or managers, who are looking for a very specific outcome or timing, or they have something in mind, and that could be a matter of scale. It really depends on the circumstances of the artist and what works for them.

Fans who've been following the podcast for a while will find a totally different experience when they come to the show. There are two types of storytelling when I hear "Song Exploder," the podcast, and when I watch "Song Exploder," the docuseries. The podcast is very audio-heavy: You get to really hear all of the isolated bits and pieces of the song. The show has a lot more historical and cultural context, sort of like a mini-documentary for a song, and you also hear from a lot more voices beyond just the recording artist. Beyond the visual element, what do you gain in terms of storytelling through the show?

I think one of the things that you mentioned is absolutely key to the TV show, which is that often on the podcast, it's just a single voice or maybe two voices together … But with the TV show, because the timeline was so different, there was a chance to stop and say, "OK, who do we really want? Who are all the voices that are involved in the creation of the song?" Maybe not just the artist, but also the collaborators that were essential to making the song. 

Having that kind of breadth and depth, it isn't always afforded to the shorter turnaround time and the scale of the podcast. But here, to really immerse the audience and give a really full picture of what the song was, having those other voices in there was really important. For [the] Alicia Keys episode [about the song "3 Hour Drive,"] we traveled to London to film with [the song's guest vocalist and co-writer/co-producer] Sampha and the [song's] co-writer/co-producer Jimmy Napes because we knew that they were going to only expand and flesh out the story.

I think a part of it is also a matter of craft, too. When you're working in audio, you're kind of only working in one dimension, which is time. You're just relying on one sense, hearing, and you're just basing everything on how long things take; the rhythm comes from just that one sense. But with TV, you have to also give a rhythm and complexity visually, too. You can't just transliterate the podcast into a TV format, where it's just one person talking, mixed with the isolated stems, because it wouldn't work; it would get very boring very quickly. So in order to have that kind of texture and nuance, we wanted to involve all those different people and try and give a little bit bigger of a picture than maybe what comes out in the podcast.

Do you see the podcast and the show as separate entities or related in the same family? Do you need to engage with both formats to fully appreciate or understand what "Song Exploder" is trying to do?

Oh, I don't think you have to engage with both. Of course, I would love it if people did, just because they're both things that I've put a lot of work into, and you want people to enjoy the stuff that you've worked on. This is not a great analogy, but I think it's sort of like reading a book or watching a movie that's been adapted of that book. I don't think you need to read the book to enjoy the movie, and vice versa, you don't need to have seen the movie to have full enjoyment of the book. But maybe you'll get something out of the experience of taking both in. Maybe it changes the way you feel about both.

This is, of course, a little bit different, because it's not even the same story that's being told. It's really just taking the core concept, which is an intimate portrait of an artist telling the story of how their artistic mind worked through creating one of their songs, and taking that concept and expressing it in these two different media. So it's much looser even than something like an adaptation of a book to a movie.

What artist or what song is your holy grail for the podcast or the show or both?

I don't have one holy grail—I think I probably have about a thousand. Anytime I start listening to music, I start wondering about it. That's not new since I started "Song Exploder"; it's the other way around. That's always been the way I listen to music. When I fall in love with a song, I want to hear it from the inside out. I want to hear what the individual tracks, what the individual stems sound like. I want to know what the ideas were that inspired all of these things that I'm falling in love with. "Song Exploder" was just a way of me being able to actually make that happen for myself. So anytime I'm listening to music and I hear something great, you could put it on the list.

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder"

Ty Dolla $ign in "Song Exploder" | Photo: Courtesy of Netflix/Netflix

What is your ultimate goal with "Song Exploder"?

I wish people would either watch the show or listen to the podcast and come away with a feeling that they want to make something themselves. Part of my aim with the show is to democratize the act of creation a little bit. I think it's easy to look at very successful artists or very successful songs or any kind of art in any format, where it has reached a certain level of success, and think that there's some uncrossable boundary for everyday people that keeps them from making something as great as those songs …

I think the best feeling that I always get from finishing working on an episode is something akin to that. That like, I just want to go make something, and it doesn't just have to be music. I think that anybody who is interested in making anything at all, to get something from the show, just the idea of going from nothing but an idea and following that all the way through to a finished piece of art, I hope that might be inspiring to everyone.

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Hero The Band perform at the Recording Academy Atlanta Chapter Annual Membership Celebration
Photo: Marcus Ingram/WireImage

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Report: Music & Culture Infrastructure Can Create Better "Future Cities"

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How sound planning for a creative future in our urban areas makes all the difference for artists and musicians
Nate Hertweck
GRAMMYs
Oct 23, 2019 - 2:27 pm

The future, as they say, is now. And for music makers around the world, building a future for themselves often starts at home, in their local creative community and in the city where they live. While technology has expanded communication and made the world smaller, cities continue to grow, making planning for the future a critical cultural mission of the present.

To that end, a new report by global organization Sound Diplomacy titled "This Must Be The Place" examines, "The role of music and cultural infrastructure in creating better future cities for all of us." The 37-page deep dive into community planning and development highlights the importance of creative culture in what it calls "Future Cities."

"The government defines ‘Future Cities’ as 'a term used to imagine what cities themselves will be like," the report states, "how they will operate, what systems will orchestrate them and how they will relate to their stakeholders (citizens, governments, businesses, investors, and others),'"

According to the report, only three global cities or states currently have cultural infrastructure plans: London, Amsterdam and New South Wales. This fact may be surprising considering how city planning and sustainability have become part of the discussion on development of urban areas, where the UN estimates 68 percent of people will live by 2050.

"Our future places must look at music and culture ecologically. Much like the way a building is an ecosystem, so is a community of creators, makers, consumers and disseminators," the report says. "The manner in which we understand how to maintain a building is not translated to protecting, preserving and promoting music and culture in communities."

The comparison and interaction between the intangibility of culture and the presence of physical space is an ongoing theme throughout the report. For instance, one section of the report outlines how buildings can and should be designed to fit the cultural needs of the neighborhoods they populate, as too often, use of a commercial space is considered during the leasing process, not the construction process, leading to costly renovations.

"All future cities are creative cities. All future cities are music cities."

On the residential side, as cities grow denser, the need increases for thoughtful acoustic design and sufficient sound isolation. Future cities can and should be places where people congregate

"If we don’t design and build our future cities to facilitate and welcome music and experience, we lose what makes them worth living in."

For musicians and artists of all mediums, the answer to making—and keeping—their cities worth living in boils down to considering their needs, impact and value more carefully and sooner in the planning process.

"The report argues that property is no longer an asset business, but one built on facilitating platforms for congregation, community and cohesion," it says. "By using music and culture at the beginning of the development process and incorporating it across the value chain from bid to design, meanwhile to construction, activation to commercialisation, this thinking and practice will result in better places."

The report offers examples of how planners and leaders are handling this from around the world. For instance, the Mayor Of London Night Czar, who helps ensure safety and nighttime infrastructure for venues toward the Mayor's Vision for London as a 24-hour city. Stateside, Pittsburgh, Penn., also has a Night Mayor in place to support and inform the growth of its creative class.

Diversity, inclusion, health and well-being also factor into the reports comprehensive look at how music and culture are every bit as important as conventional business, ergonomic and environmental considerations in Future Cites. Using the Queensland Chamber of Arts and Culture as a reference, it declared, "A Chamber of Culture is as important as a Chamber of Commerce."

In the end, the report serves as a beacon of light for governments, organizations, businesses and individuals involved in planning and developing future cities. Its core principals lay out guideposts for building friendly places to music and culture and are backed with case studies and recommendations. But perhaps the key to this progress is in changing how we approach the use of space itself, as the answer to supporting music may be found in how we look at the spaces we inhabit.

"To develop better cities, towns and places, we must alter the way we think about development, and place music and culture alongside design, viability, construction and customer experience," it says. "Buildings must be treated as platforms, not assets. We must explore mixed‑use within mixed‑use, so a floor of a building, or a lesser‑value ground floor unit can have multiple solutions for multiple communities."

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SiR 2019

SiR

Photo: Christian San Jose

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SiR Is 'Chasing Summer' And, With A Little Help From Kendrick Lamar & Others, Making His Dreams Reality

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"It feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least," the Inglewood singer/producer says of his vibey new album 
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Sep 24, 2019 - 3:08 pm

You may have already jammed out to SiR's big 2019 summer mood single, "Hair Down," featuring the one and only Kendrick Lamar. If so, you already have a good starting place for understanding who the smooth R&B singer/producer, born Sir Darryl Farris, from Inglewood is. The vibey track is driven by SiR's warm, rich vocals over a slow-bubbling trap beat, elevated even further into the golden summer sunset by Lamar's verse. It's confident but laid-back—two words which also describe the artist himself well—a true slow-burn of a fire track.

"Hair Down" is the first track and the lead single to SiR's third album, Chasing Summer, which he dropped during Labor Day Weekend, on Aug. 30. It is his second LP released since he was signed to heavy-hitting Los Angeles label Top Dawg Entertainment. As he explains, it sets the tone for the rest of the album and also marks a major point of growth in his musical career and self-confidence.

"This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important. So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that," he recently told the Recording Academy over the phone.

You recently dropped Chasing Summer, which is just such a perfect mood as summer comes to an end. What has the experience of this release felt like for you?

Man, it's one of a kind. Being the type musician I am, I'm very involved with each release, and this one feels different than the last two. Everybody around me was locked in, not just me. All the musicians and all of my team, my management had the common goals set almost a year ago, and just were building on this idea. So, it feels different, it feels evolved and it feels like a great direction. And I'm really proud of the work to say the least.

That's amazing, and I'm sure that's a really just great feeling to sort of be marinating in right now.

Yeah. It's awesome. It's definitely new territory for me. I'm just trying to keep up with myself now, which is fun.

 "It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure."

I love that. Can you speak to what your main vision for this album was?

The vision for the album is, it was all based off of my life on the road and all my experiences that I had accumulated over the last three or four years. With seeing my peers and just dealing with personal relationships, business relationships and trying to balance home and the road, and just my evolution as a human. I kind of put a lot of it into wax. It's a very honest album, and I think that's a big reason why people gravitate towards it because I didn't really hold back this time around. I kind of made sure I was as honest as I could be and I think that's shining through for sure.

I feel like it really does. I wanted to talk about the producers on the album. You worked with a handful of different people including Kal Banx and Sounwave from TDE as well as Boi-1da and a few others. How do you feel that working with these different creative minds helped challenge you and shape the trajectory of the album?

I'm going to answer this question, but I have a very specific thing about me that I really like. I work with people that want to work with me, so I don't chase beats; there's no rhyme or scheme. I didn't select certain people. I just put my head down and kept writing songs until we felt like we had a body of work. And then, what I do with most of my production is I'll get players to come in and add actual instrumentation to a good beat so that it has more life to it. I'm hands-on with all my mixes and masters. With all of the production, I was blessed to have really talented musicians around to help just elevate the sound, and I think that helps so much, man.

Working with cats like Boi-1da was an honor, of course, but I wouldn't hold him in higher regard than I would a Kal Banx, who damn near had six records on the album that he helped me produce and work on. So, I feel like everybody added their own sauce to it and it ended up being way bigger than I expected. But as far as like who produced what, I think that's not as important as the overall body of work, and we all knew that. With Kal, he wasn't worried when I told him I got a new base plate on the recipe. He didn't ask any questions, he just knew it was going to be saucy. You know what I mean?

I think, like I said, we all had a common goal. Once I laid out the plan and the vision for everybody, they were on board. So, we went into the every session with a specific goal in mind and we executed properly and I think it's going to pay off for all of us in the long run. I'm so excited for Kal. I'm excited to share this moment with him and see the response to his hard work, and it's all a blessing, really and truly.

It really seems like it was everything you would hope for in the studio, that everything is moving forward and flowing together, even with all the different people.

Yeah. I learned a lot from November and just how I kind of let a lot of people in the process in certain points where I didn't really necessarily mean to. This time I was more direct about what I wanted, and I think that's huge. Your intentions when you go into things have to be put in the forefront if it's important.

So this time around when I went into sessions, I was very vocal about exactly what I wanted, and the sessions went a lot better when I did that, and I think that helped give people an idea of what they should be doing when they come around. If you're a producer, I might not need you to make a whole beat, but I might need you to make these drums, or I might need you to play keys. Just be prepared to translate what I need, I'm not coming to you to get what you need. I produce myself, so I think this time around I was able to really fine-tune things the way I like, and it shows, man. This is my baby for sure. I feel like this is a very special project.

The album opens with "Hair Down," featuring Kendrick Lamar, which you also released as the lead single. Can you give a little bit of the backstory on that song and video and what it was like working with him?

That was probably the first song I wrote for the album that we were probably going use as a single. We usually don't try to shoot for singles, you know what I mean? When we're building a project, we'll make sure that the songs can all stand on their own two legs. As soon as I did that one, it just felt like what I wanted the album to look like, and to me it was the perfect starting point. It was the perfect launch point for what we were trying to accomplish, and I didn't get the [Lamar] verse until two months ago or something like that. I wrote that song probably a year ago while we were on the road at [TDE's 2018] Championship Tour.

That's not something you ask for. It was something that we talked about, but that's not something that you ask for. It's like the Jill Scott thing, I didn't really ask for that. You got to let them make that decision. I think with working with artists like Kendrick, Jill Scott and Lil Wayne, it's a blessing and I think I do everything I can to just make myself someone that people want to work with. I think I do a good job of standing on my own two feet, and that's something that I had to embrace over the last two years.

Just working with your idols is always awkward. It's weird. I met [Childish] Gambino at the BET awards. I wish I could take that back because it was so awkward, you know what I mean? And I still go through the everyday life stuff of I'm human and if I see somebody that I'm not used to seeing, it's going to be weird. This year, I had to really step outside of that and become SiR, and really accept that. I think it shined through when I sat and talked to people about the project, they were more open to it because I was more confident in myself, and that really helped a lot, just giving me that confidence. [Lamar's] conversations are more important to me than that verse ever will be. I'm appreciative of the verse for sure, but I can really say that's my mentor. This dude really takes care of his team and really cares about us, man. So, it's definitely a blessing to have him on deck.

And what would you say the biggest thing you learned from the collaborators on this project?

Spread love. Because I feel like most of them, they didn't have to do what they did. Miss Jill, she's getting so much love on her acting career, as she should be. She really doesn't need to feature on anything. All of these artists, they got their own things. People are looking for them and checking for them.

When I get on, if I'm ever in a position to bless somebody, and I feel like they are working hard and they've got their thing together, I definitely would want to be what they are to me. I'd want to be a blessing and give back to the community. They see that I'm a part of the same community, I have the same common goal with music. It's not me trying to get on or be a flashy type. It's not that. I really care about the music. So, I think they saw that and they wanted to reciprocate the same kind of love I'm trying to get off it.

That's all it's really about, is spreading love and giving back to what you want to see thrive and flourish. And I think they really see something in what we got going, and I was just lucky. I really feel like it's the right place at the right time, but I don't want to make it that simple. But I feel like they really are just spreading love, man, and they blessed me. I'm still in shock. I can't really process it. It's all new territory for me. It's lovely though. I don't take it for granted.

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How would you describe the L.A. music community now? From that explanation, it sounds very supportive and nurturing, but I'm interested in your perspective, whether it's just like that with TDE or just in your experience with who you've worked with.

L.A. is a weird place. It's very divided, with the people that are actually from L.A. to the people that come out here and claim L.A. The music industry's a weird place in general. I'm from L.A., so I definitely abide by the L.A. rules before I abide by the music industry rules. But when it comes to the music scene, there's a small community. What I'm learning is the further along I go in my career, the community gets smaller and smaller, and that's a great thing. You find people that are like-minded, and you got to let some friends go sometimes.

But for the most part, the goal is to find common ground that you can really build on. And I feel like I've found my community of people, from Mind Design to Kiefer to D.K. the Punisher to Kal Banx to all of my musician friends, The Catalyst, my band. My brothers, and just all of the musicians that I've been working with for the last 10 years, I still work with the same cats. L.A. is small, it's big, but at the time it's small, and I really want to keep it that way. I'd appreciate it if it stayed that way.

What does that summer mood look and sound like to you?

Well, summer mood has that sunset tint to it. It's like, to me, this album is best listened to riding down Malibu about six o'clock sunset. That's the vibe. I'm a Cali kid through and through, and I hope it translates through with the music. I think we hit it on the ball. If you want a glimpse at what summer's supposed to be, just take a listen to the album, close your eyes, and it should do the trick.

Stepping back, who are your biggest influences?

Oh man, Stevie Wonder, Donny Hathaway. These are people that my mother listened to when I was growing up. I grew up in the church, so I love Fred Hammond and Noel Jones. I don't know if you know who Noel Jones is, he's a preacher from L.A., his voice is so crazy. My mom sang background for Chaka Khan back in the day, and Michael Jackson. So, I grew up with an ear to R&B for sure, from the '60s, '70s, '80s. Of course I have hip-hop influences, but my spectrum is wide. We could have a 30 minute conversation about all the music I listen to, I promise you.

Lately, I've been listening to a lot of The Beatles. "Lucy In the Sky With Diamonds" has been on repeat for a couple of weeks, then Innervisions [Wonder's 1973 album]. I go back and forth between [Wonder's] Innervisions and Songs in the Key of Life. Then, my real guilty pleasure is John Mayer, I'm a huge fan.

I love it.

I think with music, and this is my advice to young people, it's like careers almost, you won't know what you want until you taste a few things. I think Gary Gee says that. You got to taste things to know what you want to be. I feel like music is like that too. You can't just listen to country music because you're from the South. You've got to listen to something else just to try it. You don't know, you might like classical music. If you never listen, you will never know.

I did a lot of that when I was younger and I found my vibes for sure. But I listened to some stuff that people probably wouldn't expect. But I think that helps to shape me as a musician in general. I definitely don't shy away from exploring and trying to find different vibes that I really like. One of the most fun parts about music to me, is exploring and finding new things that you never would expect you to enjoy, you know? So, yeah, my spectrum is wide, it's a rainbow for sure.

Growing up in a musical family, how do you feel like that impacted your journey to becoming an artist?

I can't really explain it because it's weird for me to be the artist in my family. I still wake up and kind of laugh because I never expected this. When I was younger, I didn't want to do music. When I was 14, my mom would make us sing in church every Sunday, and I got sick of it. That's when I kind of decided I didn't want to do music. I went on about my life, at about 19, 20 started working dumba** jobs and that turned into me wanting to find something that I was passionate about, and turns out it music was it all along. I had to step away to kind of find it for myself.

But I started really getting serious about music when I was 22, and then I ended up going to school, graduated in 2011 from film school, and just never looked back from there. I think that was what I needed was to really find it for myself, because my brothers' all sing or write songs, and my mother is still active in the industry, and they always said it was what we needed to be doing. I just had to see it for myself and I think that made me a better musician. My life experiences helped shape how I write songs. I appreciate my time away from music, but also I'm glad I found my way back because I don't know what I'd be if I wasn't a musician. I'd probably be—let's not even talk about that.

I'm blessed. My family is amazing. My brother is an amazing singer/songwriter. My older brother Daniel, he's an amazing rapper and he's the writer, and we're all supportive of each other. I know that I probably wouldn't be where I am today without the support of my family and them pushing me to be a better writer and a better musician.



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You come back to where you're supposed to be at some point. You touched on it a little when you talked about your influences, but what advice do you have for younger people that have a passion for music but aren't really sure where to start to pursue music professionally?

Don't be afraid to be wack. Don't be afraid to fall on your a**. You got to start somewhere. But it's just like anything else in life, and I could preach this to the ends of the earth. It doesn't matter what you decide to do or when you decide to do it, but it's about staying dedicated to it and really working at what you want. If you want something then put it in the universe. Write it on a piece of paper, say it every day when you wake up and just don't worry about when it's going to happen. Just keep working.

I think that's the best thing I ever did for myself. I put my head down, I shut the f*** up and I worked for five years on music, and didn't try to release anything, didn't try to do anything. I got to the point where I was so ready to go that I had three projects worth of music ready to go, and we started with Seven Sundays and from there worked our way into being with TDE and all that.

I really developed my craft first and made sure I was confident in what I wanted to hear. So, I think for anybody that wants it, just don't be afraid to fail, and keep working at it. It's not easy, none of this is. But I feel like if you want something, you can just really work at it and it'll come. You just got to be willing to f***ing eat dirt and mud for a little bit. Eventually, hard work pays off, no matter what you do. If you want to sell ice cream, sell ice cream every day. Get up, get your cones right, make sure your freezer's at the right temperature, make sure your music's playing and hit the block and get on that ice cream.

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WESLEE

WESLEE

Photo: Sergio Necoechea

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WESLEE Talk Exes Of "London Love," Billie Eilish, Support From Annie Mac & New Album

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The electro-R&B duo sat down with the Recording Academy after their L.A. debut to talk about new music, how the first song they ever wrote together, "Gassed," started them off strong and more
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Aug 26, 2019 - 11:35 am

Meet WESLEE: a vibey, electro-R&B duo featuring London-born Emma DD's smooth vocals and Kansas-raised Josh Grant's grooving production. The pair first met in New York City in a writing session and they've been on a roll since. 

Though they initially didn't reveal their identities, WESLEE's 2017 single "Gassed" (the first song they ever wrote together) got the new act noticed in the U.K. right away, with DD and Grant being picked up by an influential handful of early supporters, including Annie Mac and Pete Tong on their esteemed BBC Radio 1 shows. In 2018, Emma and Josh continued to make groovy waves, dropping their debut EP, 9F.

Now, WESLEE is ready to keep the momentum going and make their mark Stateside. They're working on their second EP and have released two more big-vibe singles, "London Love" and "Something Bout You." On the eve of their Los Angeles debut, the Recording Academy sat down with the pair to talk about new music, dream collabs, what they've learned from working together, getting support from a major British personality like Mac and more.

You guys just made your L.A. show debut. How are you feeling? How do you feel like it went for you?

Josh: Still hungry.

Emma: Yeah, it was fun. It was good.

Josh: Made us hungry for more. [Laughs.] No, it felt good. It was a fun venue. We're just going to watch the sunset go down while we—

Emma: Yeah, it's a cool venue.

Josh: —see the trains go by and see the rest of L.A. Yes. A good way to start for a good first L.A. trip.

Yeah! How do you guys usually feel when you're on stage?

Emma: I think maybe I'm normally more drunk thank I am right now. But he's always like that, laughing. We're all really nervous. I had a bit of a weirder experience, though. I was just indifferent, I didn't think about it.

Josh: Emma was good. I'm always nervous.

I always wonder what it's like getting on stage with those lights...

Josh: In your head, you're like, "This is fine" and then you're like "I don't know what the f**k I'm doing."

Emma: Yeah, 10 minutes before, you're like, "I don't know anything I've done, what do I do?" And my stomach's doing somersaults, but I'm like," pass me the whiskey" and they didn't have whiskey here. And I just find out if this [holds up bottle] is basically just kombucha…

Josh: So, it's not alcohol at all.

Maybe there's a placebo effect at least?

Emma: I do this every day, so it's good that it's not alcoholic because I would be an alcoholic.

Josh: Do you prefer drunk shows versus now knowing that there's no alcohol in there?

Emma: It's different. Today's just weird. But yeah, it felt good after. It feels good now.

Can you talk about when you first linked up and how WESLEE was born?

Josh: So, we both write and produce for other people and so we met just doing sessions that way in New York. And then it sort of happened out of that, basically. We came from a session, I think we were burnt out on doing that sort of stuff. We hit a point of "We're over this" at that moment. We needed a day to make music on our own and we wrote "Gassed" then. That's how it started.

That was literally the first thing song you made together?

Josh: Yeah, we wrote it that night. It never changed from then until today.

You started working together and something clicked. How do you feel that you balance or challenge each other creatively? How does that push the project along?

Josh: I think, for me, I change up as like, I'm nervous on stage. I'd be likely to overthink everything in my world and Emma helps me not do that. I just go based on an energy and a feeling and I can keep that and we can put it back to where we just create music now that we're together based on whatever feeling we're having that day. It's not like, "Oh, let's make it this or this." And we don't have an end goal of an EP or an album is going to be about this thing. At least, so far. It's just you go with energy and feeling of the day and then see where that takes you. And I think she's making me get better at that rather than my brain overthinking 10,000 things.

Emma: Yeah, what he said. He's better at this stuff than I am.

Josh: She has nothing nice to say about me. [Pauses.] That's not true. [Smiles.]

When you're working on your own music and in that space of more so going with the dynamic and the flow of the day, do you feel like you're able to be more creative then when you were writing for other people?

Josh: I think it's more creative for me freedom-wise. You can just go and not stress about what it is.

Emma: It's what makes it more stressful.

Josh: Yeah. Because of that.

Your name's on it.

Emma: That's exactly what it is.

Josh: It's freeing, but you're also putting [more] pressure on yourself.

Emma: And then you're starting a lot of stuff between the making music. Like...

Josh: What do you mean?

Emma: …like interviews.

Josh: Oh, right.

You want to talk about it?

Emma: Yeah, I'm not good at talking about a lot of things. Especially, "What kind of music do you make?" I don't f**king know. Sh*t, you can hear it.

Josh: You're good at talking about things in music form, but talking about that is a different thing.

Emma: I don't like to talk about myself.

Josh: But it's also kind of nice cause it makes you reflect and be like, "Oh, that's what that was about." Maybe you haven't thought about it. It's like therapy in a way. You're like, "Oh wait!" It's kind of nice.

You guys are working on your second EP. Did you have a vision going into it, and have things changed or shifted since you started working on it?

Josh: I think for this second EP we realized that all this stuff has been made in L.A. and it sounds like that, I think. Whereas all of the last EP was made in London and it sort of feels that way. I don't know how to describe what that sound is. But when you hear these songs, you can tell we were in L.A. If we're going to write a song in London, it's going to feel like that vibe of London in that day and here it's a different thing. They feel completely different.

Sunnier.

Josh: Yes. Sunny, hot. Yeah, it feels that way and sweet, in a way.

Emma: Yeah.

One of the lead singles is "London Love," which is a really fun song. And the video matches it really well, where it's really pretty. And can you talk to that song a little bit specifically? Maybe the emotions that went into that and the vision of the video.

Emma: The song is literally about my exes. One of my friends, when she first heard it, was, "Oh, my God, this is about that guy! This is that guy..." "Correct." Not all of them are real because I haven't dated that many guys. I feel like the song lended itself to the video. Even when we were writing it, I had that vision in my mind.

Was it filmed in London?

Emma: Yeah.

Josh: It was in London on a f**king cold-ass day, which is very London.

Do you feel like writing that song helped you process? I mean, no one likes talking about their exes, but we all do it.

Emma: Every other song I ever write is about one of my exes. I think I talk about them enough. New boyfriend, new ex.

You guys also recently dropped the Ben Pearce remix of "London Love," which is great. Do you guys have your eyes on any specific artists to collaborate with?

Josh: I mean, it always changes. What we listen to changes all the time. We're like, "Oh, it'd be cool to work with that person or this person", but no one specifically. I think it changes every week.

Emma: I'm gonna say Bass and Dave. Is that what they're called?

Josh: Oh yeah! Wait, is that their names?

Josh: But this is another song that's coming out is, not to give anything away, is like a duet, but there's no feature on it.

Emma: Don't give it away. He wasn't really supposed to tell you.

Josh: We're sort of open to collaborating with anybody. A lot of stuff that we do on our own or with other people, you play them stuff and then it's "Oh, we should do something together," and just see what happens after that.

So, then, how did the Ben Pearce remix come out?

Josh: That one was actually through management. They reached out and he was a fan of the song and, I think he hadn't done anything remix-wise in a while. He was just like, "I want to remix this" and he did it.

We have another one coming out with [British-Jamaican Dancehall artist] Stylo G on it, which is actually really cool. It's sort of reggae-ish. And then an Afrobeat style one going to come out as well, with [producer/songwriter] P2J, who did a bunch of work the GoldLink album.

Josh: So, just stuff like that where people hear it and go; "Yeah, that'd be cool. I'll do it" and we barter. I'll do one for you, you do one for me and we'll see what happens.

Emma: Pete and Bas! That's who I want to [collaborate with].

Josh: Everyone look out for Pete and Bas.

Emma: If you don't know who they are, f**king YouTube it.

"Gassed" was the first song you ever actually wrote together, which is pretty crazy. It was the first single you put out and, right off the bat, got a lot of love from BBC1. How do you feel that getting the positive response right away shaped your artistic path? 

Josh: For me, it's super exciting because you're like, "Oh sh*t, this thing we've done, people actually like it," which is sort of weird. However, that then puts weird pressure like, "Well, what happens if they don't play it again and our next song? How does that work?" It makes me just get a little bit too heavy about sh*t. Puts pressure on yourself that doesn't need to be there. Emma's getting good at being like, "Don't f**king worry about that sh*t, let's make music." So as amazing as it is, then it's like, "Well, she didn't like our next song." But then it's, "Oh well, she'll like the next one after that."

And then Annie Mac brought you to her AMP fest, right?

Josh: Yeah, it was super fun.

She's so influential. What was that experience like at AMP, and did you guys learn anything specific from connecting with Annie and watching her work?

Josh: I think just that she is a good curator of music that we all like. She's good at putting together and finding—

Emma: Finding new sh*t.

Josh: —new stuff, it's really good. Then joining that together to see how she picks and chooses what's gonna do what and her team around her. She's a massive influencer, especially in the U.K., still, so to be a part of that, you're like, "That's f**king cool." I just wish that we had played with Billie Eilish.

Was she were there too?

Josh: She was there the week before us, she did a show. If we had only known. [Mac] is on this stuff super early. That's amazing because we saw her a year and a half ago. And then we saw Billie Eilish play a massive stage at Coachella this year.

Emma: Yeah, it's just crazy.

Who are you guys' biggest influences?

Josh: It changes. I'm always listening to Frank Ocean. He's what I always go back to. Other than that, it is constantly changing.

Emma: I don't know if she's one of my influences, but I'm gonna say her because I just saw her and she f**king killed it: Kylie Minogue. She deserves a shout out. She may be the most opposite person to me, but yeah.



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What is your biggest goal and mission, right now as an artist putting out music?

Emma: Well, right now, to get food. Dumplings.

Josh: Trying to get Burgerlords. They do vegan tahini milkshakes that are better than actual milkshakes.

And just keep putting out music and seeing where it goes and playing more shows. And hopefully more people like it, or even if they don't. Just keep making, being creative, pushing each other and putting out music, that's satisfying. Whatever else happens, you don't really have power over. But we can control what the two of us do. And writing songs, that's a happy place.

Emma: Keep making, keep creating.

Yeah, you can't overthink it.

Josh: Yeah, we try not to.

Emma: Overthinking is the death of creativity. We're learning it fast.

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