Dan Auerbach of the Black Keys

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Dan Auerbach Talks Rebooting The Black Keys On New Album 'Let's Rock'

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One half of the GRAMMY-winning blues-rock duo talks to the Recording Academy about getting back to basics with his longtime bandmate, Patrick Carney
Dan Weiss
GRAMMYs
Jul 24, 2019 - 10:41 am

The Black Keys are almost innovators in reverse; they redefine familiar rock phrases like "stripped-down" and “back to basics." Case in point: Their ninth album (and first since 2014) is titled Let’s Rock, which makes ZZ Top's Eliminator sound like a downright Zen koan. There isn't going to be a more on-the-nose title this year unless Lil Pump surfaces with Let's Do Drugs or Luke Bryan unleashes Let’s Wear Jeans. The blues-damaged Ohio rock duo has risen from indie scraps to festival headliners with a clutch of radio hits in the early 2010s, which, under the tutelage of unofficial Third Black Key Danger Mouse, have come to incorporate lush-soul strings, buzzing synths and horny glam falsetto. (They also won four GRAMMY awards.)

Even though the duo was inactive for nearly half the decade, to hear singer/guitarist Dan Auerbach tell it, the band flicked back on like a light switch with no apparent loss of anything. According to the him, it was all gains: In the interim, he and drummer Patrick Carney both got married and had kids. The Recording Academy spoke to Auerbach about reigniting the band, his near-psychic connection to drummer Carney and their devout allegiance to touring.

The last time you guys released an album, you were going through a divorce. You and Patrick didn't release an album until you were both married again and raising new kids. Does the inspiration for new Black Keys music depend on what’s happening in your personal lives?

Not really. I’ve been playing in the Black Keys since I was 16… I was playing with the Black Keys before I was ever in any serious relationships. This is the longest relationship I’ve ever been in with one person.

Would you say this the happiest the Black Keys have ever been as a band?

It’s all relative. We’re definitely in a great place, a really musical place. I’m really excited about it.

I think there’s more songs in a major key on here than any of your other records.

I don't know, man.

A song like "Shine a Little Light," addresses death a little but also has this uplifting, gospel feel, like a Spiritualized song.

Well, I love gospel music. I collect gospel records, I’m a big fan. I know what you’re talking about.

So what’s it like trying to write blues-based songs about happiness?

Mmm… well, I sort of feel like everything's blues-based, any kind of genre. We just make 'em up. This record especially, we were just flying by the seat of our pants. The whole time we were just throwing ideas out, seeing if they stuck, and if they did, we just kept rolling with them. I was even doing that as I was writing lyrics. We would just do the music and then I would make up the vocal melodies afterwards. It could be a little strange but I had a lot of fun doing it.

"Eagle Birds" seems to be a lament for people who won't find a love like yours. That’s an interesting workaround, like you're singing someone else’s blues.

A lot of it was just unconscious. Having ideas and not being afraid to just sing what’s supposed to be there. Sometimes the lyrics can be really simplistic. But they’re supposed to be, you know? I’m thinking about how everything feels mixed together, the big picture. All the vowels and the sounds. Going by feel.

So what did the big picture end up being?

Maybe a Jackson Pollock. [Laughs.]

You didn’t plan for it to have no keyboards and be titled Let’s Rock.

I think we had six songs in a place that we liked ‘em, and none of them had anything but guitar, bass, and drums on them. And we were just like, "Man, let’s just keep doing them like this." That was all we ever really talked about it. The "let’s rock" thing, that only came later when we were thinking about a title.

They were the last words of a convicted murderer, right?

We were in the studio in Nashville, and it was the headline in the paper, in the same city, the day before we were recording. Months later, when we were thinking about a title, I remembered it, let’s put it that way.

Did you and Patrick work on music throughout the hiatus?

Pat and I didn’t talk a word about the session. We just showed up on the day in the calendar, didn’t talk about anything ahead of time. We didn’t even really talk about a direction before it happened, just let it unfold in front of us.

I love the simplicity of that.

Making music for us has never been the hard part. I love making music with Pat, it’s always so much fun. It was really great having that time off to work on so much stuff, and it made it that much more enjoyable when Pat and I got back together. We’ve always had a natural connection, ever since we were 16. In a roundabout way, we both want the same thing. We’re very different people, we hung out in different crowds. But the very first idea we had when we sat down, after four years, getting back together, the very first idea when we had, made the record, that song "Breaking Down."

So how did you decide it was time to make an album?

A year and a half ago, I was in the studio with Glenn Schwartz, the original guitar player from the James Gang; he was Joe Walsh's guitar hero, and he was mine, too. I used to go see him when I was a teenager and I loved his guitar and the amp he played. So when I started the Black Keys, that’s the type of guitar I tried to get and the amp I got. We were recording all his songs with Joe at the studio here in Nashville. It just brought back so many great memories that I just texted Pat, "Let’s make a Black Keys record." It was that loud electric guitar that drove the whole thing from the beginning.

Turn Blue seemed like you maybe went as far as away from your usual sound as you could.

We were out in California, hanging out in the Hollywood hills for a month. When you’re in sunshine every day, synthesizers make a lot more sense. [Laughs.] But when you’re stuck in Ohio in the winter, there’s something about a loud electric guitar that can warm you up.

Was the band reluctant to let in keyboards and other instruments in the first place, a decade ago?

We basically learned how to play our instruments and we learned how to record together. We didn’t know anything, and we made five records. Just experimenting on our own, never stepping foot into a real studio. It was a slow process for us, we didn’t have a lot of money so we couldn’t afford keyboards, let alone know how to actually work synthesizers. We had never really seen anybody do that. But when we decided to work with an outside producer and work in a studio for that first time, it was really eye-opening for us and we realized it didn’t have to be such a big deal to incorporate other instruments. It was nice to know that we could do that. But the heart of what we are is drums and guitar. And it felt so good to go back to just that. It felt cleansing, you know what I mean?

When you produce artists like Bombino or Lana Del Rey, do you feel like you’re vicariously living through sounds outside of the band’s comfort zone?

Honestly, I look at it all as part of the same fabric, just different threads. People like Dr. John opened my eyes to that, when I would listen to his records and hear all these different styles. We’d listen to lots of Captain Beefheart and he’d be all over the place, but it made lots of sense to me somehow. I look at the music I’ve done with Bombino or Lana as all coming from the same place.

You produced Dr. John's GRAMMY-winning Locked Down in 2012, his next-to-final release. What was your relationship like with him?

There was just a lot of love. Every time we spoke it felt good; he was still on a high from having the successful record and the resurgence [of popularity]. That meant a lot to him and [the sales] helped his family.

You poke fun at such rumors in the new video for "Go," but was there ever a moment when you honestly weren't sure if the Black Keys would return?

No, not at all. We just knew that we can’t just put out a record. We would put out a record twice a year if we could. But every time you put out a record, you’ve got to do, like, two years’ worth of touring. That was the holdup, basically. It just goes with it.

The band made a point of not "bundling" this record with things like ticket sales to get a higher chart debut. What bothers you and Patrick about the bundling strategy?

Pat’s the better person to talk to about that. I mean, ultimately, the artist ends up paying for the extra sales in the bundling, just to get higher chart numbers. 

When the Black Keys pulled out of Woodstock 50, were you worried it was looking like a Fyre Festival situation?

We didn’t know anything about it, to be honest. Us dropping out was completely unrelated, we just wanted it to be before tickets went on sale. And it was weeks later that they announced the festival was having problems.

Did you ever consider becoming a studio band like the latter-day Beatles and shunning the touring aspect?

No, we didn’t want to do that. It’s afforded us great lives and we’re able to invest it back into musicians that we believe in. It’s just finding that right balance, because I need to be able to make records and feel fulfilled in that way, too. We don’t take the road for granted.

Warren Haynes Talks New Gov't Mule Doc, Writing With Gregg Allman & Growing Young

Sheer Mag

Photo by Marie Lin

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Sheer Mag Have The Right Stuff

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Lead singer Tina Halladay talks to the Recording Academy about the Philly four-piece's sophomore LP, 'A Distant Call,' the majesty of Lizzo and how to be the cool aunt to end all cool aunts
Dan Weiss
GRAMMYs
Sep 3, 2019 - 1:10 pm

Like Rhiannon Giddens or Jason Isbell, Sheer Mag are that rare thing: musical traditionalists with something new to say. They appropriate the onetime sleazy riffs of Kiss, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and singer Tina Halladay’s favorite band Thin Lizzy (she has a full-length tattoo of Phil Lynott on her thigh) for trenchant jams about slumlords ("Fan The Flames"), murdered maquiladora workers ("Can't Stop Fighting"), and fat-shaming concern trolls ("The Right Stuff"). Needless to say, this isn’t your dad's cock-rock. In fact, we should probably stop calling it "cock-rock."

After a string of increasingly awesome EPs and a well-received full-length, the Philly four-piece just released their second album A Distant Call, which expands their sound into both louder (the Judas Priest-like "Steel Sharpens Steel") and prettier (the '80s Fleetwood Mac turn "Silver Line") realms, and combines their personal and political songs like never before, in part because the frontwoman suffered the loss of a partner, a job and a family member since the last recording. Halladay spoke to the Recording Academy over the phone from Philly about the new album, the majesty of Lizzo and how to be the cool aunt to end all cool aunts.

What did you set out to do differently this time after Need to Feel Your Love?

It was a huge difference going to digital for recording the vocals from, like, a tape machine where I had to do everything in one take. That was the right move.

You stuck with lo-fi production for a long time. Did you all feel pressure to make the digital jump?

Not really, but people have always told me they can’t hear my vocals clearly. We take such a long time to do things that [digital] is cost-effective as well. [Laughs.] The instrumental parts sound so much better, and I wanted to try and do the vocals in a different way. Because it’s stressful and limiting to have to do it all on one track.

I can hear the need to make them more legible, especially when the lyrics are so specific and politically focused.

Definitely, that’s something that had been bothering me. I don’t think we realized how illegible they actually were to some people.

Sometimes the lyrics can be secondary when you instantly love the sound of a band, but after you have a feel for them you can focus on that other layer.

Maybe [a fan] doesn't agree with what we’re saying and it would influence them. [Laughs.] They could listen and it would change their mind. I’m excited for people actually hear what I’m saying.

Have any Sheer Mag fans ever thanked you for opening their eyes to world issues?

I’ve had friends with Mexican ancestry who live in Texas near the border thank us for "Can’t Stop Fighting." But mostly it’s women coming up to me and telling me "You’re the reason I started a band." When YouTube comments and idiots tell women what they can’t be in a band, unless they’re industry-standard hot or conventionally attractive to a bunch of sh*theads. More women have told me that than I can even count.

Has that been the most gratifying part of your success so far?

I think so! That and my friend who works in the Girls Rock Camp in Austin sent me a photo of a collage that a young girl had made of me; they all make different collages of different artists. I cried.

You very specifically of all bands seem like your stage presence conquers the room, so I can see why that would be very inspiring.

Thank you, yeah, it’s always a strange feeling inside me when we’re playing. If people are being assholes, I use whatever energy is being brought to me by the people in the room most of the time. That could be feeding off of everybody’s excitement or it could be anger from whatever person being rude. It’s something I talk to other people in bands about, being energy vampires.

Where have you experienced asshole crowds?

There was this funny time in Denver, the guy was in front of me, leaning on the PA speaker and texting the whole time, while everyone else around him was so amped. So I leaned over and he didn’t even notice me and I took his phone out of his hand with my two fingers and he was furious. I had it for maybe like, half of a song and then gave it back to him. Then he went back to doing it and a bunch of 15-year-olds start pushing him around. I thought he was going to murder me but it was so funny. He was a nerd, somewhere I have a picture someone took of him looking really serious.

A Distant Call seems to connect the personal to the political more in the lyrics.

Yeah, I think it’s melding the two aspects that we usually write about, bringing them together instead of in separate songs. Everything is political in our lives so it only makes sense.

You went through some significant tragedies between the last album and this one. How did those find their way into these songs?

The way that Matt [Palmer] and I write together is really personal and we have to be—I mean, we are close friends—but for him to help me express those ideas and feelings of despair and everything I felt when my father died, and the fear and frustration of the world treats fat women and most of the things that I deal with… we have to be pretty close.

Right.

"Cold Sword" deals with my feelings about my dad, who wasn’t very present in my life except as a force of terror. I hope other people who’ve had similar experiences will connect to that. "The Right Stuff" deals with unspoken things about looks and the conversation about how society treats fat women. But Lizzo is famous now… I’ve loved her for a long time, I saw her playing at [Philly venue] the TLA a few months ago and it was insanely packed.

I got shut out of that show!

Our touring guitarist Kora Puckett's brother Aaron co-wrote Lizzo's song "Boys" so he was able to get me a VIP pass. I was crying the entire time. She’s so powerful.

I did catch her opening for Sleater-Kinney a few years ago, so it doesn’t seem crazy that she’d share a bill with Sheer Mag someday.

She's really, really famous now, though.

You mention SNAP benefits on "Blood From A Stone" and I don’t think I know many rock songs that name-check food stamps.

That time of my life was really… I was a manager at one of the locations for a service that picks up and drops off your laundry on bikes.  I had just broken my thumb on the way to work and they basically forced me to sign papers that say I quit, because I didn't know what was going on and I wasn't really educated in what I should’ve done. I was living paycheck to paycheck at that point so I had no way to make money because I was injured. Luckily, I had health insurance because if I didn't, it would’ve been really, really bad.

Do you ever get recognized around Philly?

Yeah. [Laughs.] I did once in Wal-Mart. Actually, I was in Long Island with my mother a few weeks ago walking with my niece, she’s like, 11, and has no idea. Someone drove by and yelled "Sheeeer Magggg!" I was like “What up, bitch!” and played it all cool for my niece.

Sleater-Kinney Are Embracing Whatever Comes Next

Christina Bell

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Christina Bell On "Going" & Playing Twinkie Clark In The 'The Clark Sisters' Biopic

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"A couple of years ago I went out to Essence Fest and did a tribute for The Clark Sisters, and then three years later I'm like, 'What the heck. I'm in their movie?'" the gospel performer tells the Recording Academy
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Aug 5, 2019 - 11:44 am

Gospel singer Christina Bell is having a heavenly year. Not only has the Shreveport, Louisiana native recently released a chart-topping single called "Going," which is co-written by Isaiah Templeton and Shamarr Blake, and produced by D. Jamel Kimbrough, but Bell just wrapped filming the Lifetime biopic The Clark Sisters: The First Ladies Of Gospel, where she portrays Twinkie Clark. 

Executive produced by Queen Latifah, Mary J. Blige and Missy Elliott, The Clark Sisters will premiere early next year. As she talks about it, Bell, who spent nearly two decades singing in the gospel group Zie'l with Crystal Kay Bell and Keyondra Shane Lockett, lets out a little yelp of excitement. First of all, AHHH!" she exclaims over the phone. "It's definitely a very thrilling and exciting adventure to be on right now. My first day, of course, I was super-duper nervous. But then it calmed down once I got the hang of it. It's been amazing ever since."

Now that she's wrapped shooting, Bell is working on her second solo album, which is due to arrive later this year via Malaco Records. The Recording Academy sat down with Bell to talk about everything she's been working on lately, including what we can expect on her upcoming solo work and what it was like to hang out with the real Twinkie Clark when preparing for her role.

How long have you been professionally singing gospel, and what inspired you to pursue a career in it?

I actually started singing since I was a small little baby. I was in a singing group for about 20 years. The group was called Zie'l, and we got the opportunity to just travel so many different places all around the country, and then a little bit outside of the country, hitting Jamaica and doing different things like that. And it started when we were in church. We grew up together and sang in a small choir. It was five of us. They were the only people that came to the first rehearsal, and that's how we started the group. Shreveport, Louisiana was our hometown, and like I said, we grew up together in the same church just really, really excited about just singing. At one point we actually wanted to do R&B, but my mom was like, "Yeah, no. You're not going to do that."

I continued on with the gospel thing. But for the most part it's really, really been exciting to sing gospel music. Of course gospel is the good news, so I'm really excited to keep doing gospel music and getting his word out, so that's where it started for me.

You've been performing solo for about the last four years. What has your journey been like in deciding to pursue a solo career?

I definitely will say the experience is quite different from doing group music than solo music. It's a little bit strange when you first start out doing the solo career because you don't get the opportunity to look to your right and your left. I always say this: you look to your right and your left. These are your sisters that you've grown up with, and you just have so much chemistry with, and you know exactly where to go musically, and you don't really have to say anything. But you know how you give that look to somebody and you're like, "Okay, yeah. Let's go there." I didn't have that anymore. I had to carry my own weight. In the beginning it's very nerveracking because you don't know if people will accept you like they did with the group. It's almost like you're starting over. People don't really know you as much. You have some people that remember you from where you came from, but then you have a lot of people that are being introduced to you.

The downside [of performing solo] is more nerves. You tend to be a little bit more nervous when you have to go from being in a group to being a solo artist. But the upside to it is, you get used to it. And though my nerves almost get the best of me, I've learned how to put that in check. So, it feels very exciting to sing and to perform, and just do what I enjoy doing. I wouldn't trade it. 

I know a lot of people ask me if the group will get back together, and I tell them I can't see it right now because it's freeing. You don't have to necessarily do what everybody else wants to do. You can actually get your brand out there. 

I'd love to talk a little bit about the latest song, "Going." What was the genesis of that one?

This is one of those songs that you want to have written, but I didn't pen this song. This song was actually penned by Isaiah Templeton and Shamar Blake. They are really, really great friends. Shamar was actually in Walmart and God just placed that song in his heart about God's mercy. I think he even saw something going on in Walmart, or something like that, but God placed those words in his heart about his mercy constantly going and just keeping us. And though we don't have to continue doing the same things that we were doing, you get the opportunity to experience God's mercy in a really, really real way when you're going through life, when you've made a mistake or when something has happened and you just don't feel right about certain things.

I think it's really, really special that they got the opportunity to get together and collaborate on the song. When you're working on gospel music you very seldom have people that can come together and do something so tremendous like that: make a song really simple so that other people outside of the writing department can understand what it is that you're saying. A lot of times I think that music has started to get to a place where we don't really necessarily understand what's going on in the lyrics, and this is one of those very simple songs where you don't have to worry about not understanding. I think that this song is actually for everybody.

In the Bible it says in Lamentations, chapter 3, verses 22 and 23, "The faithful love of the Lord never ends and his mercies never cease. Great is his faithfulness. His mercies are new each morning." That's so beneficial for all of us, when you get to experience the love of God, and his mercy and his grace constantly just wrapping you up. I always say you got two best friends following you, grace and mercy. Because if you get in trouble, if you find yourself wondering what's next, you still have grace and mercy that follows you all of the days of your life, and you don't necessarily have to really struggle with wondering if God is there. 

In the song it talks about God talking you off of the ledge. Not necessarily off of a physical edge, but a spiritual edge. If you find yourself looking over the edge and you're like, "Okay. I just can't do it no more." God, he will in the nick of time literally send you something, or remind you of a word something in your spirit and you can just come off of that and you'll be like, "You know what? I'm not worrying about this anymore. I am not about to worry about it. I'm not going to be afraid anymore. I'm just going to take that leap of faith and I'm going to jump." And that's God's mercy just constantly saying, "You know what? I got you."

You just wrapped up filming The Clark Sisters, your first movie role. How did you get involved with this project?

First of all, [Screams] AHHH! It's definitely a very thrilling and exciting adventure to be on right now, okay?

We got connected with this project through a very well-known producer, and writer. He posted about it on his Instagram page, and I don't think that he was supposed to, but my managers got wind of it and reached out. And we got the opportunity to do an audition. They told me to get it in by a certain time, and I had to learn my sides in less than a day. And that's something that I have never done before, so I got the sides done and really, really studied hard for it. I had to study for three different role. They wanted me to try out for three different characters, and then Twinkie was the one that they were like, "No, you are definitely Twinkie." So I got the role, and a month later everything was history. We got to Canada. And my first day, of course, I was super duper nervous. But then it calmed down once I got the hang of it. It's been amazing ever since.

Did you actually re-record The Clark Sisters' songs? 

The first thing that we did was, we went to studios to record the vocals and everything. And this is something I didn't know, of course, but we did see live vocals as well while we were on set. A lot of what you see is us singing live, but they of course had to mix the two so that they could make sure that it was great for TV. You don't want to really have mess-ups and all that stuff or whatever. So we did do the recording of the vocals first, before we even did any television, the scenes or anything like that. Before we did any of that. So, that was nerveracking because I actually had never done lip syncing or anything like that. 

Right, and it's actually really hard to lip sync, or so I've been told.

Yes! I had to ask them. I was like, "Can I sing live?" So I sang live quite a bit, and the other girls did as well. It was something that not all of us, actually, have ever experienced actually doing live. I mean, lip syncing for videos and stuff. So, it came out really, really good. 

Did you have the opportunity to connect with Twinkie herself?

Oh, definitely. Mm-hmm. The group that I sang with, we covered quite a few of [The Clark Sisters'] songs when we were growing up. And once we got recognition for their song called "Is My Living In Vain," we got the opportunity to meet them. From that point on we did some meet and greets with them, and we also got the opportunity to sing with them on stage once before, or it may have been twice before. Over the years we got the opportunity to do tributes to them. And quite funny thing is, a couple of years ago I went out to Essence Fest in New Orleans and did a tribute with a couple of women gospel artists, and we did a tribute for The Clark sisters, and then three years later I'm like, "What the heck. I'm in their movie?"

I've [also] gotten the opportunity to sing at their church and just have fellowship with them, and actually speak with them, and with Twinkie. The Clark sisters saw the movie already, and when Twinkie watched it then she says, "You know, I like everybody, but the Twinkie character, I really like her."

That's great. So what can you tell us about your new LP?

I'm actually about to release my second project, which is going to be this year. And I'm super-duper excited about that because I've actually been done with it for about a year and a half, maybe two years now, and we just wanted to make sure that everything was absolutely fantastic for the listeners. It's just really important to me that people are not necessarily bombarded with gospel, even when it comes to gospel music. I wanted people to walk away with the feeling of relief and feeling renewed, because of course that's what the Bible talks about: be transformed by the renewing of your mind. I want people to walk away feeling renewed and feeling refreshed. 

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Howie Dorough & Family

Photo by Nicole Hensley

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Backstreet Boy Howie Dorough On How Crippling Anxiety & Shyness Inspired His Family Album, 'Which One Am I?'

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After being relegated to the background in his millennium-era boy band, today the pop performer is embracing his chance to take center stage
Leena Tailor
GRAMMYs
Jul 26, 2019 - 10:31 am

In his new solo album, Which One Am I?, Backstreet Boy Howie Dorough sings about spending summer days as a kid, hiding in the pool changing shed to avoid being seen in swimming trunks. Meanwhile, he would go to school praying that he wouldn't have to sing in music class. Likewise, if a teacher ever asked him to speak in front of the class, he tells the Recording Academy that he would face a wave of nerves and anxiety, which would sweep over him and manifest in stutters and misread words. 

It might be hard to believe that that anxious kid would eventually grow up to be a member of one of the most successful boy bands in the world. But happily, Dorough's fear of public speaking didn't stop him from performing, and it hasn’t stopped him from hosting fan after-parties or album listening sessions. Meanwhile, his aforementioned physical insecurities haven't prevented him from stripping down at Backstreet Boys beach parties.

Shyness and anxiety are some of the many childhood struggles Dorough explored in his new family album, Which One Am I?, which he created with the hope that both children and adults would relate.

As a father of two young boys himself (James, 10, and Holden, six, with his wife of 11 years, Leigh), the doting dad noticed a lack of suitable music for his sons to listen to once they were past the "Kidz Bop" stage, but not old enough for teen offerings on the radio. Nor was there music which adults would find entertaining alongside their children. 

Teaming up with GRAMMY-nominated composer Tor Hyams and his vocalist partner Lisa St. Lou, Dorough set out to create a family-friendly record and subsequently ended up exploring the issues of his youth. The album, released to coincide with the launch of the Backstreet Boys DNA World Tour, has also been adapted into a musical, Howie D: Back in the Day, with Dorough set to star in the debut run of shows kicking off at Omaha’s Rose Theater in January.

Below, the Recording Academy speaks to Dorough about his new record and the personal inspiration behind it.

How does it feel to finally release your solo record?

I’m excited! It's definitely something which if you had asked me 20 years ago, or 15 years ago, whether I’d be doing this right now, I would have been like, "You're off your rockers!" I was shy growing up, but as well as that, I would never have thought I’d go from pop music to making a family album.

You worked with Tor and Lisa on the record. How did the songs evolve after your initial discussions with them?

They said, "You have a lot of relatable things that kids can relate to—and adults, too." Everyday situations like worrying, being shy, feeling small and being in somebody’s shadow. So, we started writing about this stuff. The majority of the songs are loosely based on real-life experiences, like "Pollyanna’s Shadow" refers to growing up with my older sister, Pollyanna.

You used to go into music class, praying that you wouldn't have to sing in front of your classmates, which seems ironic now that you’ve made a living singing to millions of people around the world. How much did that shyness hold you back as a kid?

I was definitely very shy—even just reading in front of my class, I would stutter. Or I wouldn’t stutter, but I'd get so nervous and my anxiety would take over so much that I’d read words that weren’t even there! I'd just be standing there shaking in front of the class.

Do you ever feel like that these days?

Even to this day I still get nervous every time before I go on stage. Every time we're about to do something for television or at an awards show—if they took my blood pressure, it would probably be sky-high! A lot of people don’t realize, but part of me is still shy. I’m not like some other people who are like, "I just want to sing for you all the time. Let me be on all the time." I’m a little more reserved. And that’s why, believe it or not, I don't do a lot of karaoke. People are like, "You must do karaoke all the time," but I really don't. If it's not one of my songs, I probably haven’t sung it in 30 years. I still get shy about being out there, especially if I’m exposing myself in a different light to be criticized and critiqued.

"Me and Kevin [Richardson] were more in the background and I struggled with that for many years. I never wanted to just be a background singer, but I realized over time that everything was meant to be."

So, how do you get up in front of sold-out crowds to perform every night?

I just do it. I just get up there! Little by little, I’ve learned not to embrace, but to understand the nerves and the butterflies. I've realized that it’s actually what I need to keep me on my toes.

You explore struggles with your multi-racial identity growing up in the album, but it sounds like being in a boy band has also caused identity issues. What has been the most memorable cause of mistaken identity?

Oh boy, I’ve had so many over the years! People will say, "Oh, is that the group with Justin Timberlake?" and I'll say, "No, it's not," then they'll be like, "Oh, you're in Menudo? Or 98 Degrees?” Then even within my own group, it’s like, "Are you AJ?" I'm like, "No, I'm Howie!"

"Pollyanna’s Shadow" is a song which a lot of kids who grow up with an older sibling will relate to. But have you also felt that with the Backstreet Boys over the years—in terms of sharing the spotlight with four other guys and often having to step into their shadow as they take on lead vocals?

Absolutely. In the early years, when the group first started, I was more of a lead singer, then little by little as we started working with [songwriter] Max Martin and the label, I got pushed more to the back. Me and Kevin [Richardson] were more in the background and I struggled with that for many years. I never wanted to just be a background singer, but I realized over time that everything was meant to be. If we didn't have the songs—and the vocals which were chosen for those songs back then—who knows if they would have been as big of hits as they are nowadays? And now I get my chance to shine here and there, just like Kevin, and it's always a great feeling.

It sounds like the other guys have been supportive of that?

When Kevin took a break I remember going to the guys and saying, "You know, I want to continue doing this with you guys, but now it really feels so awkward being in the background. It's one thing to have somebody else there in the background with me, but now that Kevin's not here, I need you guys to allow me to step up to the play in order to feel like I work in this group." The guys were really good about it. It was never like any of the guys were saying, "You can't do it." It was more the choices of the producers. And I don’t fault them for it because obviously they want the record to be the best it can be and if my voice may not be the exact tone they’re looking for, I get it. Nowadays it doesn’t bother me as much anymore.

But given that you were experiencing shyness and anxiety, did that make you more accepting of being in the background? Or did it somehow impact your performance back then?

I think with that pressure from the producers and constantly trying to prove myself, that definitely created anxiety. And, that in turn probably affected my voice and made it not as strong as it could have been.

Is anxiety harder to deal with given you have to constantly hit the spotlight on stage with the Backstreet Boys, or does it help since you have thousands of fans screaming their support and encouragement for you?

I think it's both. What guy wouldn't want a bunch of screaming women yelling for him? It definitely gives you a boost to your confidence, but I still find myself challenged with trying to be the best that I can be on stage.

You're also launching a musical, Howie D: Back in the Day, at the Rose Theater in January. How did the album evolve into a musical?

The more we started writing, we were like, "Oh, this is a musical here." This is not your normal kids' record. It’s definitely a little different. So, after we got the record done, things shifted over into making the musical. The pieces really felt like they needed to be more of a musical with an accompanying CD, rather than just a CD on its own. So, we started doing rewrites and writing the musical and about three of the songs from Which One Am I? ended up making it into the musical. Then we were like, "We still have such a great body of work here. It would be a shame to not let it see the light of day for our fans after I’ve been talking about this for five years!" So, we finally put the album out!

The GRAMMY Museum Unveils 'Backstreet Boys: The Experience'

Angie McMahon

Photo by Paige Clark

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And She Is A Woman: Angie McMahon On 'Salt' & Arguing With Men About Gender

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Ahead of her set in L.A., McMahon sat down with the Recording Academy to talk about her debut LP, processing her experiences through writing and attempting to argue about gender with men
Rachel Brodsky
GRAMMYs
Jul 26, 2019 - 9:11 am

Folk-pop performer Angie McMahon has a remarkable voice. Yes, she sings for a living, but the Australian singer/songwriter's trill is immediately captivating, deep and husky and reminiscent of everyone from Danielle Haim to Fiona Apple to Florence Welch. It's also quite unexpected coming from someone with such a slight frame and unassuming presence.

To American audiences, the 25-year-old may appear to have come out of nowhere, but McMahon, who releases her debut LP, Salt, today via Dualtone, has been in the game for the last six years or so, playing around Melbourne with a local soul project called The Fabric. She's also no stranger to playing to massive audiences: In 2013 she won a local songwriting competition to open for Bon Jovi on the Australian leg of their Because We Can tour, and as of now, in addition to playing the festival circuit (she's heading to Newport Folk Festival this weekend), she's currently prepping to go on tour with GRAMMY nominee Hozier. Her music, meanwhile, covers tried and true topics like relationships, but also looks at major themes of the day: On recent single "And I Am A Woman," she tries to communicate the nuance of a woman's experience to the opposite sex.

Ahead of her set in L.A., McMahon sat down with the Recording Academy to talk about her debut LP, processing her experiences through writing and attempting to argue about gender with men. 

I imagine the first thing most people think when they hear you is, “Wow, what a voice!” Is that something you get a lot?

I do. Sometimes if people haven't heard me sing and they hear me speak first, because my voice is kind of nasal. I think I speak like a kid sometimes, and then my singing voice is different. But yeah, I think I just shaped that around singers that I really loved, and I didn't even really notice that I was doing it when I was younger. k.d. lang is a really big one for me, the deep vocal work that she [does], and the deep emotion that she can bring up. I think when I started listening to her, I was just like, "I want to be able to do that." 

Did you grow up singing?

Yeah, sort of. I grew up playing piano when I was quite young, and then that turned into really loving covering pop songs and singing to myself. I didn't really learn singing, [or have] singing lessons, until I was maybe 18. 

I was always singing along in the car when we were going on family drives and stuff. We'd go out into the bush for a bit and listen to CDs. I was just constantly singing along, and constantly making my mom replay [songs, saying] “It's my favorite song.” I was like, "Again!" Even driving up and singing. I was probably pretty annoying as a sibling.

Did you start playing guitar around the same time? 

Yeah, I started playing guitar. It comes back to covering pop songs, and wanting to have the option of performing, picturing myself as a performer and starting to think about talent shows and stuff, maybe like 14, and not wanting to take a keyboard everywhere.

So I started learning guitar based off of my piano skills, and YouTube and stuff. I can't remember exactly why, what it was that triggered it, but I think it was probably the music that I was listening to, Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen my dad was playing in the car. It made me want to be able to do that instrument. I still listen to those records, and want to be able to play the way that they play. I want to learn harmonica so I can play, just reach that sound space. But yeah, that's where the guitar came into it. I haven't had guitar lessons ever, and I'm really not very good. I'm not saying that out of humility. I know that my skill level is at a certain level, and I really would like to excel.

How many years were you playing around Melbourne before you started touring internationally?

I was always doing solo gigs here and there, but not very seriously, just whenever they would come up. That was probably from when I was about 17, 16 or 17. I'm 25 now, so maybe there was five years before I was looking to start the band. I was also in another band [The Fabric], which was a really good way for me to build experience and to keep singing, and to learn how to interact with boys in a band, and be in a band space. That was a soul group, so there were nine of us. There were eight boys and then me singing, and that went for three years from when I was 18 to 21.

Did you go to school for music?

No, I didn't. The uni that I was at had a music school that I didn't get into. I was doing English there and literature, [but] my extra subjects were music stuff, which is kind of the best way to go about it because I got to do the fun songwriting [classes] without having to do the assessments and intensive jazz training. It basically was a jazz course, and I can't sing jazz. I'm just not adept at that technique. I mean I had really good teachers at school, really good. I had a trumpet teacher who was a really big mentor for me in high school, and I had my piano teacher who was always really patient and lovely. All the teachers that I had mentored me in such a lovely way, but I didn't have a specific music course that I completed or anything.

Do you intend for music to be a living?

Yeah. I'd never really thought of it financially, but as a pursuit, just the way that I want to spend my time. It's always been what I was thinking about. It was kind of a source of an existential crisis, because my work ethic for a lot of my life, a lot of my teen years, was just not very good. It was this thing of always picturing myself on stage, and wanting to perform for my life and write songs, but not having done enough of the work for that to materialize.                                  

When I was finishing my degree and stuff, I'd gone through my whole English degree, sitting in every lecture theater, just picturing myself doing music and writing song lyrics in my notepad and stuff. It was just this fairy land, and then I finished my degree. I was faced with nothing that I wanted to do except music. I had to give myself a pep talk, several pep talks over the years, and some from my parents as well. But basically switched into the mode where I was like, okay. I have to look at the business side of the industry, and I have to understand what I'm willing to work at, and what I want to achieve. 

I know that you're about to put out your debut, Salt. It features a lot of tracks that were on your EP, A Couple Of Songs. What was the thinking in including most of the EP songs on the LP? 

Well, we were ready to put [an LP] out, and then we met Dualtone and wanted to have a chance to release it probably in America. It's such a big country and such a big industry over here, so we really wanted to work with Dualtone. They were so great, but we had to figure out a way to promote the singles that have already been released across the world. That's where the Couple Of Songs EP came in.

It's interesting for me, because these songs on the record, they are on the album, so it's almost like, at this point, a lot of the album has been released. I guess that was for the sake of having a way to kind of push it into this market, and we just kind of came out with a couple of songs EP on the fly. I was like, "Well, why don't we do a little EP?" That's where that kind of came from, but I'm glad we did it that way, because I feel like the songs have their own individual life.

I remember there was an artist who I loved when I was younger, who put out an EP that I was just obsessed with, and I couldn't wait for his album to come out. When his album came out, it wasn't nearly as exciting to me as the songs on the EP were. I just wished that those songs had been on the record. It was just one of those things where I watched that happen as a fan, and as an artist, I just want to put out an album. I just want that to be the first collection of songs.

What's the thought behind the name Salt?

I don't have one answer for that, but I always knew that that was what I wanted to call it. I tried to come up with other names that made a bit more sense where they were from the album or something, but nothing else quite fit. I went with that word because to me, it represents a feeling of balance. Looking back on the songs, which are this collection of experiences that I had, romance and friendship and growing up, up until I was 22... To me, it looks like what is left after all of those experiences. It's the remainder of what I went through growing up.

It's similar to the way that salt is what's left over when water evaporates. Then it's like salt is in your tears. It's like salty tears, and salted wounds. It can sting, and it can bring out taste, and it can cleanse things. I think a lot about the ocean, and the way that it's terrifying and also so liberating to swim in. It's just all of these kind of metaphors that circle for me around salt as a mineral.

I'd also love to get your perspective on your most recent song, "And I Am a Woman." What was the thought behind that title?

There's no single thought for me behind this song either as well. It's such a big concept to tackle. It's just something that I'm being more and more interested in as I grow up as a songwriter, and as a person. It's maybe the moment you are content.

That was the most recent song that I wrote for the record, even though it was two years ago. The whole song came from this heated conversation about women's bodies in public spaces, and a real disagreement with this person about what we're entitled to with equality, and all that kind of stuff. I was so frustrated, and the lyric about being in my home is very much about being in my personal space, and in my body, or in my safety, or whatever. Then I guess the second half of the lyric, "and I am a woman," it almost felt like the most obvious thing.

How am I going to word this? You know when you're having an argument with someone? Arguing with men about gender, or discussing the misunderstanding of something that to you is so obvious. It's so frustrating, and you're just like, "To me this is the most obvious thing. Based on my experience and my life, you should focus on the standards," and they just don't. "And I Am A Woman" just feels like this really obvious thing to say, that carries so much weight, but is also really simple.

It's interesting. So much of the music industry and live industry, it's just male-dominated. I love the boys that I work with, but sometimes things just happen where you just need someone who shares this experience to understand why this affects me, and why it's a manifestation of how many times this has happened to me over my life. Things are just becoming louder now, and we're understanding what we are entitled to more and more, what we shouldn't lay down for. So it's the frustration at that same time is building, because the change is so small. I want to be more fluent in that discourse, and I want everyone to be more fluent in it so we can talk about it more and more.

I did also want to ask you a bit about the song "Pasta." I have to admit that the name reminded me of Courtney Barnett's song about ramen.

Yeah. I love her. She's an inspiration for my songwriting, for sure. She captures this humor and kind of relaxed personality type that I really relate to. Maybe it's a Melbourne thing, or maybe it's an age thing, but basically her music is awesome. I also think the tone of her songwriting has inspired me. There's a realness to it that is so exciting.

When you're writing, are you interested in projecting a tone of honesty?

I think it's more satisfying for me to write something to complete a lyric or whatever that is really honest, and with rhymes, and says what I am feeling or going through without realizing that's what I was feeling or going through until I wrote it down, so the satisfaction that comes from that. Then if I'm able to lace in humor or a double-sided metaphor or whatever, those kinds of things, it's just so satisfying. For me, [songwriting is] very much a way that I process my own experiences. Until this point, and it might change, but all the songs basically have been autobiographical. I think that that will keep developing. I have a long way to go in my songwriting, which is exciting for me. 

What's next for you? Are you working on future recordings? 

I find it hard to [write] well touring, and it's been a lot of touring in the last year, so I haven't completed a whole bunch of new songs. I would really like to be able to take the time to do that. It's basically the next year, I guess, is going to be balancing how much touring we can do, and how much time I can take off to write, so that's just something that I'm figuring out. It's also you can't force it. Just because you take the time off doesn't mean that's when you're inspired. The rest of the year we're touring the album in Australia, and then I'm coming back here to tour with Hozier, and then that basically brings us to the end of the year. So hopefully after that I can take some months. I'm really feeling like writing again. I think it's got to do with putting out the first record. It feels like a clean slate. I'm ready for the next thing.

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