Courtney Barnett

Courtney Barnett at The Stanley Hotel

 
 

Photo: Joshua Mellin

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Courtney Barnett Talks Life, Music And (Almost) Everything

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The Australian singer-songwriter tells the Recording Academy about her supernatural near misses, finding the words to fight inequality and how she’s still learning to tell people how she really feels
Laura Studarus
GRAMMYs
Feb 12, 2020 - 12:20 pm

When it comes to telling it like it is, Courtney Barnett has nerves of steel. Across three full-lengths, including 2018's Tell Me How You Really Feel, the Australian singer-songwriter has unpacked a host of complicated ideas throughout her wry folk rock. 

There's the danger of ambition, on display in "Avant Gardener" where after a near-deadly asthmatic attack, she moans, "I should have stayed in bed today.". There's suburban ennui: See "Depreston," where she considers the benefits of a two-car garage. She even tells off detractors on recent track "Nameless, Faceless": "He said, 'I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup/And spit out better words than you'/But you didn't."

But when it comes to the topic of ghosts, she admits that it's easy to freak herself out, even though she likes to consider the idea. 

Barnett's open mind is an asset, since we're sitting at The Stanley Hotel, an Estes Park, Colo., resort that's believed to be one of the most haunted locations in the U.S. Whether or not it really has a spirit population is always in question. Given the building's history, which includes an explosion in room 217, multiple post-death sightings of the founder's wife, Flora Stanley, and inspiration for both Stephen King's "The Shining" and "Pet Cemetery," it's easy to believe there's some kind of strange forces at work. 

But rather than ghost-hunt, Barnett has come to The Stanley Hotel to perform as part of a tradition of small-crowd concerts dating back to Houdini performing illusions for a clutch of society women. 

Courtney Barnett

It's a small room for the GRAMMY nominee, who has also performed on "Saturday Night Live," "ellen," "Late Night With Jimmy Fallon" and a host of summer festival stages. But Barnett admits that part of the goal of her solo tour was to stretch herself by performing in interesting spaces.   

Before she could charm the crowd with her left-handed guitar and seemingly endless display of quips, Barnett tells the Recording Academy about her supernatural near misses, finding the words to fight inequality and how she's still learning to tell people how she really feels.

In honor of the fact that we're sitting at The Stanley Hotel, do you have any good ghost stories? 

Not major ones. The last town that we stayed [in], I felt I actually had like a little ghost feeling. It was weird. I just like, I was shot up in bed at 5 a.m. both mornings and I felt like someone was in the room, which has happened a few times in my life, but not that many. So when it happens, it is a really particular thing. We watched half [of] The Shining last night. I think in the lead-up to playing here, I started researching it to see what it was all about. 

What one thing, if removed from your life, would make you go as crazy as Jack Torrance from the film? 

The connection to people is probably a big one. I think it would probably send me into some sort of crazy. 

Do you get to invest in the Melbourne community when you're home? 

Home time has been pretty minimal in the last five or six years. But yeah. I have a record label [Milk Records] in Melbourne, which I started six or seven years ago. And so, that has grown and has local bands and a few that aren't local. So that keeps growing and ticking over as we put on shows and put out records and all that stuff. When I'm home, I go out and see lots of shows. 

Read: Frances Quinlan On Her New Album 'Likewise,' Love Of Visual Art And Learning To Speak Her Mind

Your label, Milk Records, recently opened a storefront.   

We did it as a pop-up store in December in the lead-up to Christmas. And then we built a little stage and we had some semi-acoustic performances, and now we're just seeing how it goes in a bit more semi-regular way. I love it. I think it's really nice. People can come in and look around, and people can do shows. And when people are visiting from out of town, I want to make it so they can pop in and play if they want to and sell some records. Milk Records has somehow created this really amazing community of people who love music and just really want to share with each other. It's just a really special thing. 

Because I'm now picturing you as a Nick Hornby-style record shop owner, what are the top five albums or songs you're currently listening to?

What I've been listening to? We've done some really good albums on this tour. I started making a list the other day of new songs, like the new TORRES. Paul Simon. Elizabeth Cotton. Julee Cruise. These are all just random songs.  

I think it's nice to listen with focus, not like background kind of music, because I ended up doing that a lot, and if I'm at Melbourne at the Milk warehouses [and] there's something on the background, we don't listen to it properly. So it's nice just putting headphones on or putting a record on and sitting and listening to it.  

Where do you fall between optimism and pessimism? 

I always would say that I'm an optimistic pessimist, because I think I am pessimistic by nature, but I'm also kind of melancholy and have always been more on that side. But I really want to be hopeful and optimistic. It's like, I don't want to be like a pessimist who's like grumpy about everything. But I can be that person. 

Has touring with The Ally Coalition and Headcount helped change your perspective? 

Oh, yeah. I think that's been cool. It's such a small, easy thing to invite them and have them; I know that they do so many shows. It's such a simple thing to be able to broaden conversation with people who might not be aware of certain things. It's available and they can chat, or they don't have to. 

That's a huge resource I'm sure is missing from many people's lives. 

Which is kind of crazy because we think we have access to everything, but it's almost like sometimes I don't know where to look for information. Even though the internet, it like [leads us] to believe that everything is available. But sometimes, yeah, it's an overwhelming kind of overload. And to do all that research yourself is hard. So I think when you find people who are doing really amazing work and have done amazing research, you kind of can look up to them. 

If you could change one thing about society, what would it be? 

I guess an umbrella term would be inequality. I would get rid of that. 

Do you see your music in the same bucket as artists who focus on activism? I know you've been compared to Bob Dylan quite a bit. 

I don't feel like I'm outspoken enough. I kind of wish I had the words to be so. But I don't think I've written anything as powerful as some of those people. I think it's just finding the words and finding the voice to be able to say things, which I struggle with sometimes. So I ended up writing around them or, you know, I think it's still there, but in a kind of more symbolic way. 

Read: TORRES On Writing Queer Country Songs, The Power Of The Spoken Word And Her New Album, 'Silver Tongue'

It's funny to hear you say you write around things, because from an outsider point of view, your music is so personal and immediate. 

I don't even notice what is behind a lot of what I'm writing. It's kind of hidden to me until later. Sometimes, it's kind of strange to just unpack as time goes on. Two years on from making and releasing the album, I play the songs every day and play them different in different ways. Playing them solo, now there [are] certain words or phrases that, with time and distance and perspective, you just see them differently. I always find that fascinating. 

Has there been a song in particular that has gone through that transformation?

Like the song "Need A Little Time" on [Tell Me How You Really Feel]. [When you're writing], you kind of know what you're talking about… but I don't fully know. And with different situations, the words just mean different things. Maybe I'm talking about that person or that person, or maybe I'm actually projecting something onto them and actually talking about myself. Or all of the above, which is also totally acceptable. 

How does playing solo change the dynamics of your show and the material? 

I haven't played solo in a really long time. I was a bit nervous before the tour started, but I've been kind of, strangely, quite calm and comfortable, and I think the audiences have been really, really lovely... I think I've been just experiencing the songs differently. It's inspired me 'cause it's so much more vulnerable: nothing to hide behind and no wall of sound to hide behind and dark lights to fade into. I can hear the songs again how I wrote them… it's kind of inspired me to write; I want to write better songs.

When the voice in your head is telling you that things aren't good enough or that you're not doing well enough, how do you shut it up? 

I think the most useful way is to pretend that someone else is saying it to you and you're trying to confront them. You would never talk to someone the way that you talk to yourself a lot of the time. Trying to look at it in a realistic way with none of those neuroses and hang-ups is hard. 

After writing such a direct album called Tell Me How You Really Feel, has it been easier to tell people exactly how you feel? 

No, I think it's just a learning process, growing-up process of learning how to communicate with people. I've learned that the outcome gets easier. It's normally not as bad as you think it is, and it's a kind of weight off the shoulders. It kind of uses more energy and it's more of a waste of time to just hold on to things. I guess it's an important thing to learn over time and to let go of those things that drag us down and make us resentful. It all just builds up in your body and you feel it and it's just such a waste of space. 

Since you appear on Anna Calvi's upcoming collaborative album, Hunted, what artists would you love to hear covering your songs? 

I think that it's such a cool idea. You kind of think like, "Who could do it?" Like in a similar vein, but someone who is from a totally different musical world. I mean it's just endless. [I'd like] someone like Kim Gordon or St. Vincent, or even someone like Dev Hynes [who] could turn [it] into this whole beautifully different, amazing thing.

So, what's next? 

I kind of planned to spend most of this year at home writing, and then I accidentally organized a solo tour. I'll probably write, and I might do some kind work on some projects with some people, maybe some collaborations back home. I just kind of want to write and read and be a sponge to the world.

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Ryan Hemsworth

Ryan Hemsworth

Photo: Colin Medley

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Ryan Hemsworth Talks Combining Two Worlds On 'Quarter-Life Crisis'

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The new EP's cohesion came naturally as he "tried to make it more like a mix or a compilation of like-minded people that are all kind of in the same world," he says
Danielle Chelosky
GRAMMYs
Dec 9, 2020 - 5:59 pm

Ryan Hemsworth's goal was simple: To allow his love for indie music to interact with his passion for producing. He's worked with Tinashe, Tory Lanez, Yurufuwa Gang—the list goes on and on, and it's diverse and full of surprises. For Quarter-Life Crisis, his EP released on Nov. 4 via Saddle Creek, the Canadian producer switched gears and brought in a circle of more low-key artists: Charlie Martin of Hovvdy, Frances Quinlan of Hop Along, Claud, Hand Habits and Yohuna. The ambiance is different—it's calm, sparkling, free-floating.

"Time just stretches out a lot," he tells GRAMMY.com a couple of weeks before the EP release, the day that the track "Comfortable" is unveiled. "It sort of was a good thing in the end because I've grown these relationships with everyone on the project."

The artists he collaborated with are also, in one way or another, interconnected. The cohesion came naturally as he "tried to make it more like a mix or a compilation of like-minded people that are all kind of in the same world," he says. That world is heightened in Quarter-Life Crisis—the delicate vocals, the earnest lyrics, the careful movement. It sounds less like a crisis and more like a resolution.

Read on to hear from Hemsworth about the timeline of the EP, the process of collaboration, and the inspiration to combine indie and electronic music.

When did you start making this EP?

The general idea started years ago. I was emailing with Saddle Creek—who's putting it out—probably well over five years ago. It was about this general idea of having a handful of different singers and people from different projects, but putting it all together into one hopefully cohesive project. It's been a long time coming. The songs actually started probably two years ago. I feel like that Hand Habits track ["Comfortable"] that came out today was maybe the first that got this into motion. Since then, I was finishing it through the start of COVID-19. It's sort of a pre-COVID project.

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How did you pick who to work with?

Kind of a mix of different ways. Half of them are part of the Saddle Creek label, and Amber is the A&R and she introduced me to a few of them. That helped a lot to get some level of trust going into it, like, "Hey, we know this guy, we know you guys would probably make something good together." That can be the one of the hardest parts at times, especially with a project like this.

Hand Habits, for example, had never really done a collaboration this way. I invited them to the studio and usually they'd play guitar and write everything themselves. I had an instrumental demo ready and I just played them a few different ideas. With the first one, Meg [Duffy, a.k.a. Hand Habits] was already like, "Yeah, this is sweet," just sitting there, humming and writing down lyrics. It was—hopefully for everyone, and myself included—just a refreshing approach. It was the same for Frances [Quinlan] as well. I don't think she'd really worked sitting there with a producer before and making this type of music.

Did you feel any responsibility, especially since it was their first time doing that sort of thing?

Yeah. I wasn't too in my head in the moment, but after I was like, "I'm glad this went well because I probably could've turned them off from wanting to do something like this ever again." I wouldn't want to be responsible for that. [Laughs.]

But with Frances, who's just the nicest person, after she was like, "I've never really considered working in this way, but now I'm really interested in doing this more." Because I never really know; I'm not like most producers that are super cocky and have a big mixing board and are like, "Come on, we're gonna make a gold hit." I'm definitely more self-conscious and I want the other person to be super comfortable and happy. It's hard to turn that part of your brain off sometimes, but I think it went pretty well overall.

Is there anything specific you learned from working with all these musicians?

Definitely a lot of different elements. In a nerdy way, the approach to mixing. I feel like before this, I was really thinking more about how something sounds from the "How does it sound in the club?" perspective—the kicks and bass should be louder. This was more of a freeing experience, where I was playing a lot of it live with guitars and everything and I could actually make it sound rougher. I didn't need to use those words like "slap" and "smack"—I'm not thinking about music in those terms. [Laughs.] It's a personal, nice growth.

Especially working with Frances, who's really meticulous with how she makes music. That song changed a lot and went through a lot of demo stages. One section went from one to another, and we got a children's choir on the chorus and all of this different stuff. That let me step back and be like, "I'm not gonna control this thing. I really want her ideas to get across here." I wanted to amplify that and make it the best it could be in general. That's probably the producer goal in a way.

To me, the EP has this feeling of floating and this dreamy, delicate vibe. Was that something you were trying to capture?

I would say that's kind of what always comes through, for whatever reason or maybe for a bunch of different reasons. I definitely use certain synths that are heavily reverberated and certain sounds that kind of reference to '80s synth-pop stuff. At the same time, I really was going back to my high school indie band influences on these songs—thinking about Grandaddy, and all groups that combine electronic sounds and rock sounds in a not cheesy way.

Tell me about what your life was like when you were in high school and got into indie. How'd you get into it, who'd you like, what shows did you go to?

I started playing guitar in grade seven, and it was through my cousin who had a band. I looked up to him and wanted to emulate everything he did. So, just having a good role model, I think, and letting me steal his old CDs, like Smashing Pumpkins and stuff like that. Through high school, I was always excited to get home right from school and find music and go on blogs all day. I was in Halifax until I finished university, and honestly not a lot of big bands came there, so show-wise, I didn't really go to a lot. I was just sort of on my computer all day, every day.

I feel like I was originally really into this type of music, and sitting on my laptop and getting more into production, it lent itself to the electronic world and doing more and more of that, which ended up being the last 10 years of my life. I was like, "Wow, I can combine these things." I don't know why I was always scared of that a little. I thought it would like turn one side or the other off in those two different worlds, but I think nobody really cares anymore.

Why's it called Quarter-Life Crisis?

When I started thinking about the project, it was more accurate to quarter-life, but at this point I'm 30 now. The general idea was reached when I was playing a lot of shows and electronic festivals and there were definitely a lot of elements that I didn't really love about it. In general, I just wanting to be at home and go back to that sitting on my computer and not having responsibilities again.

Did that crisis just pass through you?

I guess so. Maybe the project is me sort of working that part of my life out. It does feel a bit cathartic to make this music that I've always wanted to but I didn't know if it would be accepted or if I would be accepted in this different world musically. It’s been a nice feeling so far.

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Frances Quinlan

 Frances Quinlan

Photo: Julia Khoroshilov

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Frances Quinlan On Her New Album 'Likewise,' Love Of Visual Art And Learning To Speak Her Mind

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The Hop Along frontwoman discusses her debut solo album, professional jealousy and the loaded meaning behind the word "likewise"
Laura Studarus
GRAMMYs
Jan 31, 2020 - 1:41 pm

Frances Quinlan is shocked. The singer-songwriter was attempting to expound on an answer, thoughtfully tackling the idea of solitary art, when nature intervened in the form of a particularly aggressive muskrat, springing into action outside of the Milwaukee Art Museum. 

"He just tackled a duck and went for his throat!" she yelps. "I'm surprised he could take her down!" 

"Animal Kingdom" exploits may be one of the few times Quinlan hasn't offered eloquent commentary on an event or emotion. (Then again, maybe "wow" is the best summation of National Geographic action). As the frontwoman for Hop Along, she's spent the last decade crafting chamber folk mediations on death, abuse and the pricklier side of love.  

It's a similar emotional quagmire fans will recognize in Likewise, Quinlan's newly released debut solo album. Likewise, out today (Jan. 31) on Saddle Creek Records, is a folk-fueled study in emotional details: a haunted dream, a bug in a woman's brain and meaningful notes found in a library book. ("Somebody wrote 'tender' in the novel's margins/As if to remind about a precious force," she sings on album track "Your Reply.") It's also an accurate depiction of her complex, thoughtful and often funny internal monologue. 

Following the release of Likewise, Quinlan spoke with the Recording Academy about professional jealously, business cards and learning to speak her mind. 

In honor of the fact that you're calling from a museum, when did your love of visual art begin? 

I started out painting when I was very young. My mom actually really encouraged it. She hasn't really done it for a few decades, but she made kind of amazing etchings and was the first person to take me seriously as a visual artist, which is a wonderful, wonderful thing for a child—just adults in general that see potential. Especially because it's not like I was all that good when I was little. But my mom saw, and a few teachers as well saw, that I really liked doing it, and just encouraged me quite a lot. 

I'm still working on it, honestly. I just went through the museum looking at a kind of painters, and I have this really terrible tendency to calculate the age of a person when they make their work, mostly to know that there's still time. 

I tend to go the other way and get jealous of people younger than me who have accomplished great things.  

I do both. I look at age and go, "Man, they were 23 when they did that, holy cow." But at the same time that I look and see like how they were 56 when they did this. That's great. I mean, there's no formula. That's the great and daunting thing about it—there's just no way that you have to do anything, and certainly no age either. 

Read: Beach Slang's James Alex On The Albums That Made Him

Do you see the connection between visual arts and music in your life?

I do think there's a connection between the two. I'm not sure. I'd have to think more about that, but they certainly fulfill different aspects of what I need spiritually. 

When did you get to the point when you felt comfortable being like, "Hey guys, here I am?" and writing songs that are so open and honest?  

I would say that in life, that's going to be a work in progress. I think it's not for me to say I have it figured out. It's a big, big moment to really accept yourself fully and accept however people decide to define you. I definitely think that's a challenge and to let go of how people define you. There's certainly people that have made their decision about who I am. And I understand the lack of control. That's someone else's emotions. They're allowed to have them. 

This solo album is super interesting to me, especially hearing that you recorded it in pieces. Was there a moment when you stood back and saw the light narrative thread going through these songs? 

I started to see a little bit of a thread once I was in the middle of recording. It just kind of occurred to me that these songs all seem to be dialogue in a way. I mean, not all of them, but that does come up a number of times. 

As you've gotten older, have you found that it's sort of easier to have honest dialogue with the people you care about? 

No, it's not easier. Not for me, anyway. The only thing that I find is that I am getting a little better at it. Uhh, I don't mean to quote from the show "Louie," but there is a scene where Joan [Rivers] says, "It doesn't get better. You get better." And I think with confrontation, I don't think it gets easier. As long as you remain emotionally engaged, heartbreak doesn't lessen as you age. Also, maybe your perspective [widens] and you have a better idea of the big picture. But humans are unpredictable.

Read: The Cranberries Reflect On Their First GRAMMY Nod: "Dolores Would've Been Delighted And Honored"

"Likewise" feels like an incredibly loaded word. 

It's funny, I've been noticing it more that people [are] saying it. Like I thought initially writing it down, I thought it was sort of a dated word. But I'm hearing it more and more now. So maybe [it's] just because I'm more conscious of it. First of all, I just, I like the sound of it. "Likewise." That internal rhyme within the word. I liked that it's a singular word that contains a whole, pretty loaded meaning of, "I understand you, I feel the same way." Likewise. It's such a funny thing to say, like, "We're the same." We feel things the same, and yet you're saying it to someone you probably just met. What a funny thing. 

So other than "likewise," what should we bring back in 2020? What words or things that we haven't done as a society for a while? 

"Zowy!" No, just kidding. No one should say "zowy."

What would your business card say if you had one? 

Not artist. I'd have to find some kind of sneaky way to have some kind of more official-sounding, artisan kind of name. Well, something that just indicates a concrete process. If I were a session player, that would look good on a card and it would make sense. But musician, to me, even that—I certainly wouldn't put guitar player or even vocalist on a business card.

While you were working on your first album, did you have a celebrity crush or a person that you really looked up to? 

Bright Eyes, of course. Saddle Creek in general. I loved that that was made up of people making records with their friends and that it could be attainable in that way. Before that, I heard the radio and it seems so distant, the ability to make an album and release it and have it be in the store.

Do you believe in fate? It's amazing your story seems to have come full circle now that you're part of Saddle Creek.   

I think there's too much chaos and horror in the world. It's hard to think that anything was destined to happen with so many, you know, crazy, horrible mishaps and disasters. But I certainly would hope that no one planned it, that no cosmic being intended that. I'm almost hopeful that there isn't. That sounds pretty bleak, but doesn't mean I'm not hopeful.

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Estereomance

Estereomance

Photo: Marco Corral

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Record Store Recs: Estereomance Are All In Their Feels With Vinyl From El Paso, Los Angeles & Mexico City

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From Quincy Jones to Madvillain (a.k.a. MF Doom and Madlib) to Gustavo Cerati, the Latinx dream pop trio share some of their favorite records
Ana Monroy Yglesias
GRAMMYs
Jan 6, 2021 - 2:32 pm

With the unprecedented global disruption of COVID-19, it's important to support the music community however we can. With Record Store Recs, GRAMMY.com checks in with vinyl-loving artists to learn more about their favorite record stores and the gems they've found there, so you can find some new favorite artists and shops.

El Paso-based trio Estereomance—consisting of Manuel Calderon, Adria Del Valle and Paulina Rezain—make dreamy, ethereal tunes as expansive as their multicultural border town identities and influences. They released their desert sunset-tinged self-titled debut album in June 2020 on beloved Latinx indie label Cosmica Records.

The "Seen City" artists take us on a trip to the music shops closest to their hearts, including one right next to their studio in El Paso! They also take us deep into the emotions of some of their favorite vinyl records. Read on to crate dig with the Texas band.

Pick three to five records stores you love.

Amoeba Hollywood in Los Angeles.

La Roma Records in Mexico City.

Atomic Wax in El Paso, Texas.

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Why do you love these shops? And what kind of goodies you've found there?

When we're in Los Angeles, we love going to Amoeba Records—it's a must for us. Here in El Paso, we like going to Atomic Wax. The owner Raul has a great selection. When we are in Mexico City, we head to La Roma Records where you can also find our vinyl.

These three record stores are important locations for us. Amoeba in L.A. always gives us that big city treat; You can literally stay there for hours, finding new music every minute. We love that they have in-store shows that a lot of great artists perform at—that always inspires us and makes us daydream of playing there one day. We are mostly working when we are in L.A., but we made it a tradition to make time in our schedule to go and find records there; it feels like a souvenir from each trip. The last time we were there, Adria got Quincy Jones' Sounds…And Stuff Like That!! (1978, A&M Records), Manu got Madvillain's Madvillainy (2004, Stones Throw Records) and Paulina got Aretha Franklin's Aretha Now (1968, Atlantic Records).

Atomic Wax is located right next to our studio in El Paso. We like visiting before or after our studio sessions. It's a cozy but very vast record store, and we love that [Raul] has quite a Spanish oldies collection—artists like José José, Los Angeles Negros, Los Terricolas, Pasteles Verdes, and more.

La Roma Records in Mexico City is a really cool record store in a neighborhood called La Roma ([the place] Alfonso Cuarón grew up and filmed his Oscar-winning movie Roma). You can find goodies like Plastilina Mosh's Aqua Mosh (1998, EMI México), Gustavo Cerati's Bocanada (1999, BMG Argentina) and Los Fabulosos Cadillacs' El Ritmo Mundial (1988, Discos CBS).

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GRAMMYs

Paulina Rezain with 'McCartney'

For at least one of your favorite shops, share a recent record or two you bought there and what you love about the record/artist.

Paulina: Paul McCartney's McCartney (1970, Apple Records). This album is very special to me. It fills me with motivation knowing that Paul recorded the album in his house. It makes me think that the only things you need to fulfill a dream are motivation and faith. This is McCartney's debut solo album and, since I'm obviously a Beatles fan, I knew I had to listen to it. I instantly connected with it. [There are] collaborations with his wife Linda [McCartney on the album]—she complements him beautifully.

"Every Night" always puts me in a good mood; it's the perfect song to start my day or to play sometimes when I'm melancholic. "Maybe I'm Amazed" stole my heart; it makes me cry every time I listen to it. I will dedicate it to the future love of my life. I feel this album is full of feelings, it has a lot of colors and dynamics; You can hear McCartney experiment and take certain risks on his debut album.

Adria: Blonde Redhead's Penny Sparkle (2010, 4AD). Manu introduced me to this album and it instantly blew me away. My favorite track is "Penny Sparkle"—the guitar arpeggios are full of deep feelings. The music is warm and enveloping. I feel the entire track can soundtrack a slow-motion romantic scene in a movie. Kazu Makino's voice is so dreamy; it takes me to another dimension.

I keep discovering my voice and creativity as an artist, and this album opened my mind to perspectives in music. It is definitely an inspiration. The beats are hypnotic, odd and experimental, and [hold] a deep message. It's like jumping into a deep pool and delicately swimming in it.

Manuel: Sparklehorse, Danger Mouse and David Lynch's Dark Night of The Soul (2010, Parlophone/Warner). I bought this record as a CD when it was released. Then I bought the vinyl at Amoeba. I remember listening to this album nonstop when it dropped. I'm a huge fan of all three artists involved, especially Sparklehorse. A friend of mine played Sparklehorse for me on a jukebox in a biker bar on the eastside of El Paso (that for some reason we ended up at), and I instantly fell in love with [frontman] Mark Linkous' sounds.

I bought all of his collection that same week. Unfortunately, that was the week he [died by] suicide. That really broke my heart. About a year later, Dark Night of The Soul dropped. It was beautiful to hear The Flaming Lips, Jason Lytle and Suzanne Vega interpret Mark Linkous' songs that Danger Mouse produced. My favorite track is "Revenge" [featuring The Flaming Lips]. I remember visiting my parents in Juárez, Mexico and listening to that track over and over before I crashed on the couch. The vinyl also has a superb visual presentation done by David Lynch.

Manuel Calderon with 'Dark Night of The Soul' & Adria Del Valle with 'Penny Sparkle'

Manuel Calderon with 'Dark Night of The Soul' & Adria Del Valle with 'Penny Sparkle'

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What's an upcoming/recent release you have your eyes on picking up and why?

The Flaming Lips' American Head (2020, Warner Records). We really like "Flowers of Neptune 6," which we heard for the first time on Danger Mouse's Jukebox playlist that we constantly listen to, especially during the road trips we took this summer. We were actually [featured] on that playlist too, which made it extra special.

GRAMMYs

More of Estereomance's vinyl collection

How would you describe your record collection in a few words?

To us, our vinyl collection is a collection of souvenirs/moments. It's perfect because when you listen to the record it can somehow take you to the place where you bought it and remember what you were doing that moment. It's a very romantic activity that most people don't experience anymore. It's very special to put on vinyl and listen to it, especially with friends and people you love.

In your opinion, what can music fans do to better support BIPOC artists and business owners? 

Look up and research Black music and how it has influenced almost every genre that exists today. Be on the lookout for emergent Black artists and support them by buying their merchandise and sharing their music with friends and on social media. Researching Black-owned businesses in your hometown is also a great way to support locally. For our friends in El Paso, we want to recommend a Black-owned vegan Southern-style restaurant we really like: The Queen's Table—it's delicious!

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Aimee Mann

Aimee Mann

Photo: Sheryl Nields

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Aimee Mann On 'Bachelor No. 2' Turning 20 & Launching An Indie Label In 1999

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The GRAMMY-winning singer/songwriter discusses her groundbreaking album and putting together a remastered, deluxe version on vinyl for its twentieth anniversary
Zack Ruskin
GRAMMYs
Dec 8, 2020 - 5:12 pm

It took twenty years, but the ranks of the freaks are finally complete.

Arriving on Friday, Nov. 27, the new remastered vinyl edition of Aimee Mann's 2000 album Bachelor No. 2 (Or, The Last Remains of the Dodo) at last unites the singer/songwriter's Oscar- and GRAMMY-nominated "Save Me" with the body of work it was originally plucked from. Featuring new artwork and four additional songs, the limited release from SuperEgo Records also marks the first time the full array of songs Mann wrote during this time frame has been packaged together.

Consisting of songs that would ultimately be split between Bachelor No. 2 and 1999's Magnolia (Music from the Motion Picture)—the Paul Thomas Anderson film in which Mann's music played a major role—these releases coincided with a time period in which the artist found herself being shoved from label to label. Mann's frustration over these experiences, which would lead her to start her own label, SuperEgo Records, naturally bled into the music she was making as well.

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"I think everybody has, at some point, been in a dynamic like that," Mann said, of being stuck in label purgatory for nearly five years. "It's a dynamic where you are trying to please somebody and you're told that this is the way you can please them, so you try to do that thing but nothing seems to work. And you feel crazy."

Speaking by phone from her home in Los Angeles, the "Avalanche" singer pulls no punches when it comes to sharing just how frustrating those experiences were for her.

It's a sentiment echoed in the thoughtful, incredibly informative liner notes from Mann that accompany this new edition. In addition to sharing some fantastic tidbits (for example, Dave Foley from "The Kids in the Hall" inspired a "Save Me" lyric), she also gets into the act of creation itself–territory she also regularly explores on her podcast co-hosted by Ted Leo.

In a wide-ranging conversation touching on everything from writing with Elvis Costello to her own musings on fame, Mann's self-proclaimed "terrible memory" fortunately didn't keep her from generously sharing what she remembers about making a record that would ultimately cement her status as one of the finest singer/songwriters working today.

In the liner notes for this new, remastered edition of Bachelor No. 2, you write that the record is "better than you remember." What do you mean by that?

I think it's just more of a function of not giving yourself enough credit when you first do something. It's not that I didn't think it was good. I think I just thought that other things I've done have been better. So, I guess that's why it surprised me, like, "Oh no, this really holds up."

In several places, the liner notes basically say "...and then Jon Brion just went crazy." Tell me more.

One of the reasons it was so great to work with him—well, it's twofold. On the one hand, I felt like we had a very similar melodic approach. But on the other hand, I could bring in something like "How Am I Different," where there's not a lot of change that happens from verse to chorus, but then he would tell us to go to this other chord. It's some harmonic place that I never would have thought to go and that just made it so exciting to me. That probably also goes to why I was surprised that the record held together.

Some of the songs I had started recording with Jon and then brought back into the studio to finish recording or maybe I still had to do mixing and adding. A thing that Jon is known for is having unlimited ideas for parts, which is a blessing and a curse because it's really hard to sort through everything.

Speaking of the timeline, it's difficult to know exactly what the chronology is when it comes to the songs you'd written before Paul Thomas Anderson started working on Magnolia and what came after. Is it true that he was listening to early demos when he was first writing the script?

I don't even know if we did demos. We definitely started recording between records [after 1995's I'm With Stupid] and then things just didn't get finished, or I wasn't happy with it, so I brought it back. For "How Am I Different," I may have recorded a different version with Jon, because I remember him coming into the studio and saying," Oh, you slowed it way down."

"Build That Wall" was a thing that we recorded, then I rewrote some words and added some stuff and trimmed some other things down. "Momentum" was 100 percent Jon just going crazy. The cover of [Harry Nilsson's] "One" was like an all-Jon orchestra.

Surveying the music landscape today, I see artists like Sadie Dupuis with her label, Wax Nine, and Phoebe Bridgers starting a label through Dead Oceans and I feel like SuperEgo was kind of a trailblazer in that regard. Would you agree?

It's interesting because, at the time, we tried to get other artists to join us. The whole idea was to share resources and nobody wanted to do it. I think the people who had record deals were like "better the devil you know" and thought it would be more difficult to self-release. I think it was the smartest thing I ever did. It was pure stubbornness. I found myself on a new label and I just didn't want to go through the same rigmarole that I always went through. You record an album, you have a history, and so presumably people know what you sound like and what you're going to bring.

Instead, it was these endless discussions about what is a single and what isn't a single. It's so tedious. Pick a f***ing song you like and promote it—or don't—but don't send people back into the studio to try to sound like a different artist. It's insulting and it's dumb. It's never going to work. People will see through it.  Whoever likes my music doesn't like it because I'm trying to be super pop-y or super catchy or of the moment. I think artists should be allowed to do their own thing, and that should be self-evident, but it's absolutely not.

Another thing I've always found striking about the songs on Bachelor is the ambiguity you create in which the subject of scorn in many of these songs could really be either a lover or a label head.

I think everybody's had a relationship of some kind—whether it's a parent, sibling, boyfriend or girlfriend—where you just keep trying to please someone and then, at some point, you have to decide: "Do I keep bending myself into a pretzel, into a shape that does not look like me?" Oh also, by the way, for what?

It's not like people hand you a check. You get a budget to make a record, but it's not like, "If you record this song written by our hitmaker, we will give you a check for $10,000." You're doing it on spec. You're the one who's going to promote it by going on the road for months and months. You're literally doing all of the work and for what? The idea that you might be famous? I really do think that's what [the label executives] think: that people are going to be so enamored with this idea that they might become famous that they'll just say and do whatever. They don't care. Being famous is a mixed bag. Sure, a very low level of fame is nice, but it takes a certain person to enjoy it and I just wasn't really that person.

I think people who are super famous, who have seen the limelight, are really amazingly adept at handling people and interacting with them in a way that is almost supernatural. I have a terrible memory. I don't remember people's names. That already causes a lot of stress but then there are people like Taylor Swift, who likes to interact with her fans. She invites them over and knows their names but there are not enough hours in the day for the energy and the clear-headedness required for that. I also think there are people who are bottomless pits of need and they're always after any attention they can get. That's their main goal, to get lots of attention.

I totally agree, and yet, if there was an Aimee Mann fan club box-of-the-month or something, I'd need to know what the hell was inside of it.

I mean, that actually sounds kind of fun, now that you put it that way. Like, what can I put in my monthly grab bag? It would be five different items that have nothing to do with each other.

Maybe some little drawings?

I'm actually doing a graphic memoir. I mean, it'll take me two years to do it. But ultimately, that's my pandemic project. It's a lot of work but it's interesting.

Speaking of graphic works, was the song "Ghost World" directly inspired by the Dan Clowes book?

Yeah, absolutely. That book really killed me. I think it summed up that that feeling of being 17 or 18 and having no idea about what to do with your life, which is a real crisis. Nobody really gives you any advice and you just have this vague sense of needing to get out of this town, as if that's going to fix it. In any case, I really related to that. Well, I didn't relate to it but I think it made me go back in time and think about how I felt when I was 17. Yeah, that was a real piece of art, that graphic novel.

In reading about what you went through with various labels during the time you were working on these songs, I'm always surprised that, at bare minimum, no one was at least excited about the fact that you had a song ["The Other End of the Telescope"] co-written with freaking Elvis Costello.

Boy, I know. Nobody seemed to care about that. When the label was discussing when they would put the record out—or whether they would put it out—after I'd been told that they decide when it's done, [Interscope's] Jimmy Iovine said something about how Sheryl Crow's last record "only" sold a million and a half copies and how it was this big disappointment. So ungrateful. Selling a million and a half records? That's what you're sneering at? It was like, "OK well, I guess under these circumstances, you probably don't care that Elvis Costello co-wrote this song."

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Jumping from the past to the present, your husband, Michael Penn, also just released his first new song in fifteen years! Will there be more?

I hope so! I think he's a phenomenal songwriter. He hasn't put anything out in 15 years. I think he's a person who was never really a performer—that really wasn't his thing—so I think he felt like there wasn't really a place for him in the music business. He's been scoring TV and movies but he's starting to write songs again and I'm really trying to goad him into making a record because he's so f***ing good! He's a world-class songwriter.

And as for you?

We're doing a Lost In Space [her 2002 album] reissue next, so working on that. There's also a new album. We just mastered it. I have to listen to the masters and check it out. I just got it!
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