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The GRAMMYs At Lollapalooza With Le Butcherettes And Mayer Hawthorne

Backstage with Le Butcherettes and Mayer Hawthorne at the 20th anniversary of Lollapalooza

GRAMMYs/Dec 3, 2014 - 05:06 am

The Recording Academy Chicago Chapter played host for The GRAMMYs At Lollapalooza during the festival's 20th anniversary installment from Aug. 5–7 in Chicago's Grant Park. The Chapter conducted exclusive backstage interviews with artists performing at the festival, including indie rock trio Le Butcherettes and neo-soul artist Mayer Hawthorne.

Le Butcherettes spoke about their roots in Mexico and the underground Mexican music scene, moving to the United States, performing live, and their immediate future plans, among other topics.

"I consider this band not to be a typical rock band," said frontwoman Teri Gender Bender. "I think it's an artistic project more than anything, which makes it possible to do whatever we want. [We have] no limitations."

Le Butcherettes were formed in Mexico City in 2008 by vocalist/guitarist/keyboardist Teri Gender Bender, who later moved to Los Angeles and added drummer Gabe Serbian and bassist Jonathan Hischke. In 2010 the band signed with Mars Volta guitarist Omar Rodriguez Lopez's label, Rodriguez-Lopez Productions, releasing "Henry Don't Got Love" as a free download. Their debut album, Sin Sin Sin, was released in 2011 and features 13 songs penned by Teri Gender Bender. Le Butcherettes recently completed a U.S. tour with Deftones and the Dillinger Escape Plan and will play select West Coast dates in September.

Soul artist/producer Mayer Hawthorne discussed his parents' positive music influence, his favorite artists, moving to Los Angeles, his love of vinyl and computer technology, and his forthcoming new album, among other topics.

"A lot of people think I live in a soul bubble," said Hawthorne regarding his music influences. "[My influences are] really across the board. I try to incorporate a little bit of everything in my music."

Hailing from Ann Arbor, Mich., Hawthorne moved to Los Angeles with hopes of becoming a hip-hop artist. After Peanut Butter Wolf from Stones Throw Records heard a collection of his soul-influenced demos, Hawthorne was signed to the label and released a single featuring "Just Ain't Gonna Work Out" and "When I Said Goodbye." His debut album, A Strange Arrangement, was released in 2009 and reached No. 2 on Billboard's Top Heatseekers Albums chart. With influences varying from Curtis Mayfield and J-Dilla to Frank Sinatra and the Doobie Brothers, Hawthorne's music crosses various genres. Hawthorne will kick off a U.S. tour with electronic/funk group Chromeo in September and his new album, How Do You Do, is scheduled for release in October.

Come back to GRAMMY.com tomorrow for more exclusive backstage interviews from The GRAMMYs At Lollapalooza.

(The GRAMMYs At Lollapalooza: Videography by Colleen Mares and Thomas Brankin; Interviews by Jackson Abbeduto, Kiana Basu, Liz Gassner and Max O'Kane)

The GRAMMYs At Lollapalooza 2011: Arctic Monkeys, Atmosphere, Black Cards, Haley Bonar, Cage The Elephant, Cults, Dale Earnhardt Jr. Jr., Deadmau5, Dani Deahl, Deluka, DJ Lady D, Fitz And The Tantrums, Foster The People, Gold Motel, Ellie Goulding, Skylar Grey, Mayer Hawthorne, Kids These Days, Le Butcherettes, Maps & Atlases, My Morning Jacket, Tab The Band, and Young The Giant

Catching Up With Mayer Hawthorne: How Love, Shrooms & Ethio Jazz Created His Sexiest, Most Psychedelic Record
Mayer Hawthorne

Photo Courtesy of Janell Shirtcliff

Catching Up With Mayer Hawthorne: How Love, Shrooms & Ethio Jazz Created His Sexiest, Most Psychedelic Record

In a career-spanning interview, the GRAMMY-nominated soul singer from Michigan details the creation of his recently-released fifth album, 'For All Time,' his origins in DJing, and collaborations with Doja Cat.

GRAMMYs/Oct 31, 2023 - 02:25 pm

In the early 2000s, when Andrew Mayer Cohen was in his 20s, he moved from his hometown of Ann Arbor, Michigan to Los Angeles to pursue a career as a hip-hop DJ. He had been DJing clubs and parties in Detroit but was ready to take things more seriously.

At a party in L.A., the artist now known as Mayer Hawthorne handed hip-hop producer and Stones Throw record label owner Peanut Butter Wolf a demo: Wolf said the beats were no good but loved the soul samples in the background. When Wolf found out they weren’t samples — Hawthorne had created all the soul sounds on his own, playing all the instruments, to avoid paying to sample classic soul songs — Wolf suggested he pursue soul music.

Hawthorne has since released five albums — including For All Time, released on Oct. 27 —  and continues to tour, pursue side projects and collaborations, and DJs parties and events. With his glasses, coiffed hair, and suits and loungewear, he’s like the Buddy Holly or Hugh Heffner of contemporary soul music. 

GRAMMY.com spoke with Hawthorne recently over Zoom about his latest album, upcoming tour, his unexpected beginnings as a soul singer, and what he's learned from collaborating with younger artists.

Describe the plan going into this most recent album: How did this new batch of songs come together, and what did that process look like? 

I did a lot of mushrooms and came up with a lot of super psychedelic sounding stuff. This is definitely my most psychedelic record. I was listening to a lot of Ethiopian and Turkish jazz and African funk. 

I’ve been really obsessed with the song “Mot Adèladlogn” by Tèshomè Meteku, and music from Mulatu Astatke. I remember buying a Mulatu LP at a record fair in the mid 2000s for like $10 and now it's a thousand-dollar LP. Ethiopian music can be dark and mysterious sounding, and that really hooked me. 

But the really big thing is that I met someone and got married. This album is a lot about finding real love that is for all time. 

Congratulations. That’s a big milestone.

Dating in L.A. is brutal. It can be a very lonely place. I’m so unbelievably grateful to the universe for sending me my wife. I definitely went through some dark times, so this album is a celebration of love.

So much of your music is about love and romance. What’s different or unique with this new batch of songs?

It’s definitely the sexiest album I've ever made. I'm predicting a baby boom in 2024. Music about love is the music I probably love the most, like Isaac Hayes and Barry White. All the best Beatles songs are about love. 

I think prior to this record, I was known for bitter, angsty breakup songs. My (2016) Man About Town LP was all about frustration and loneliness and the inability to find love and happiness. They are still fun songs, but I was trying to hide the sadness in the fun. This new record is like a 180 from that. 

Typically, where do new song ideas come from for you? 

My best ideas come when I’m in the car. When you’re driving you switch off part of your brain, and something else pops up, and it frees up something in your brain. Mayer Hawthorne songs just come out of the sky. It’s more about me trying to reverse engineer out of my head and get it on tape. I don't usually come up with something on the spot like I might when I work with other artists. Mayer Hawthorne stuff is more personal. 

Sometimes I come up with demos that I think would be cool for another artist, and they’ll listen and say well this is amazing but you are the only person who could do this song. I have my own unique style of songwriting and the only thing that matters with music is that you do something unique and original that can cut through the noise, and that’s not easy.

You produce and write for other artists, including Doja Cat. What’s your approach to producing? When other artists come to you and want to collaborate, what do you think they’re looking for, exactly?

I’m at the point where I have some experience under my belt and something to offer when I work with younger artists. Sometimes they don't know the difference between a pre-chorus and a bridge or a major triad and a minor 7th chord. Some don't play an instrument, they just do everything in FruityLoops. It’s very liberating and so much fun. It's inspiring for me. 

I love being around the energy of young people, it keeps me young. Blu DeTiger played bass for me on my record, and I’m in awe of her playing. She’s incredible. I worked with Jordan Ward a lot, and his writing is so instinctual and creative. I get more out of these sessions than they do. It helps me so much to not become that old cranky guy and say music now sucks. I don’t ever wanna be that guy.

You were nominated for a GRAMMY Award for the special box set of your 2013 album How Do You Do, and nominated again for your work on Doja Cat's Planet Her. How have those nominations affected your musical career?

It’s always cool to be recognized by your peers in the business, people I have tremendous respect for. It feels cool to be part of something. We’re all out here working hard, but you never know what will be a hit or what will have an impact. You do the best you can all the time and cross your fingers, and if you're lucky, some shit really goes. 

To have started the way I did, as a DJ from Ann Arbor who moved to L.A. and tried to make hip-hop music, and ended up sort of accidentally having a career in soul music, and now still being here and being involved with someone as cool as Doja Cat. It's so cool to stay relevant in that way and have so much fun doing it. 

You started off as a DJ, and you still DJ for parties and events. How do you approach DJing, and how has it evolved over the years?

I’ve been DJing since high school. I still consider myself a better DJ than a musician or singer. I can DJ with my eyes closed, it's like second nature to me at this point. So much of it is just reading the room. You have to know instinctively what to play at the right moment to make people move.

I DJed a pool party for Kourtney Kardashian and she wanted only 1950s music. That was so much fun, playing doo wop and sock hop jams. I love things like that, I had so much fun. I did a Star Wars disco party for Disney recently, and got to pull all my Italian disco, spaced-out vocoder jams, and electronic shit. That was so cool. I love doing that. DJing is still my number one love. 

Your vinyl collection has been described as "insane." How so?

That is accurate. I listen to so many styles of music, and I collect everything from Doris Day records and the Chordettes to Sun Ra and British psych rock. I’m all over the map. 

Siamese Dream from Smashing Pumpkins is one of my favorite albums of all time. I used to set my alarm clock in high school to Helmet because it was the only way to get me out of bed. I recently got on a plane to Toronto just to go to this crazy record convention for super vinyl nerds like me. It’s an expensive ass habit, but vinyl is my thing.

You live-streamed “Wine and Vinyl Hour” DJ sets from your house during Covid. How did that come about?

It’s something I do anyway at home, just spinning records and having wine, so my manager said why not just turn the camera on and let other people in on it? 

It turned into this thing and became bigger than me. People started showing up just to talk to each other. It was something to look forward to every Thursday and it turned into this big community I was not expecting. It was amazing.

Since 2015, you’ve collaborated with producer Jake One on the boogie funk group, Tuxedo. You’ve released three albums and done multiple world tours. How did that project come about? How is Tuxedo different from your solo work?

Tuxedo is just Jake and I making songs we want to ride around in my 87 Benz and listen to for fun. Jake and I both have successful careers without it, so Tuxedo is just icing on the cake. That's why it's good. It’s a celebration of having a good time and dancing and being happy. It’s about joy.

You told the Detroit Free Press in 2009 that Mayer Hawthorne is a character torn in time between 1965 and 2009, heavily influenced by Motown and '60s soul, but moving the music forward and creating something new. How has your character evolved over the years?

Over the years, Mayer Hawthorne has definitely become less of a character. It comes much more from a genuine place of my real life, as I get older and experience things and live life. 

When you’re young you don't have much experience, so you have to make stuff up. Then you live and you can tell your story for real. As I get older, it’s much more the real me you’re getting, which is very cool, and scary at the same time. There’s less to fall back on. 

And how do you make '60s soul sound new?

I never want people to hear my records and wonder if it's new or not. When you listen to this new album, it's clearly influenced by the Delfonics and Isaac Hayes and Steely Dan, but there’s no way you're confused and think it's an old record you missed from the '70s. I’ll never do classic '70s Philly soul better than the Delfonics. Plenty of artists do regurgitation of something old, but I’m all about putting my new spin on it. 

I grew up in the Detroit area, but Motown had long moved to California and there was nothing really left. I grew up listening to J Dilla and Slum Village — that was my music, not my parents' music. Classic soul music had a profound effect on me, but I learned more about it from hip-hop producers who sampled it than the actual artists. 

**Your debut album, Just Ain’t Gonna Work Out, came out in 2008 on Stones Throw. It was soulful and fun and also very youthful; it sounded retro and modern at the same time. You were 29 then.** 

I just really wanted to make it as a rap producer in LA, and was so excited to meet Peanut Butter Wolf. I met him at a party and gave him my rap beats. He said they were terrible, but asked about the soul samples. They weren’t samples; I had made them on the side so I could sample myself for free and not have to pay for royalties. He said you're not that good at making rap beats, but youre good at making soul, so you should do that. 

I thought for sure it would be a side project. I didn't think there would be a possibility of that being my trajectory. But then it just connected with people. I was like holy s—, now I have to perform these songs live, and I had never sang in front of an audience and I didn’t have a band. I was like how does anybody do this? It was so unorthodox.

How did you get into hip-hop initially? What/who were you listening to? What was the appeal?

Rap music exploded in Ann Arbor around 1993. If you didn't have Black Moon's "Enta Da Stage" or Snoop Dogg’s Doggystyle on cassette or CD you were wack. My friend's high school rap group needed a DJ, so I saved up and bought two used turntables off eBay. I had about a dozen 12" singles from Nas, Pharcyde and Wu-Tang, and I practiced scratching and mixing in my bedroom all day, every day.  

I think I was mostly drawn to hip-hop because it was different and rebellious. My parents hated it, so it made me love it more.

Did you always want to pursue music seriously or were there other pursuits you had considered? 

My dad is a bass player and he taught me to play when I was 6 or so. I wanted to play drums but my parents didn't want me banging on s— all day in the house. I would do my own Michael Jackson performances just for my family with the one sparkly white glove. 

I was in a bunch of bands throughout middle school and high school, including one experimental rock band with Andrew WK who was my neighbor growing up. I studied computer science in college but it was mostly to please my parents. 

I always knew I wanted to make music, but I never imagined I would be a soul singer.  I never sang in any of the groups I was in, I was always the bass player or the DJ somewhere in the background.

You’ve had a great 15-year run so far. 

I wake up every morning still unbelievably grateful and thankful that I get to do this for a living. Part of the reason I’m still here is that I always expected one day it would be over. I just try to have as much fun as I can while I'm doing it. I just never want to be boring, or middle of the road, that’s the worst.

I’m still learning so much. Every time I do a session with a 19-year-old from the UK, I learn so much also. I’m supposed to be the veteran in the room, but I learn just as much from them as they do from me.

You’ll do a short tour in January and February. What do you have planned for those shows? How has your live show evolved over the years? 

The tour is called Hawthorn Rides Again. We will switch things up with new band members and live drums. I’m not the same 20-something guy I was when I first started touring. I feel like I'm a different person, so I want the show to reflect that. 

It will sound as close to the record as possible. I can't stand it when I see a band and it doesn't sound like the record. Mainly I want the tour to be a joyous celebration of love. 

Looking ahead, what’s next for you in 2024 after the tour?

I'm really looking forward to writing and producing more with other cool artists like MAX, Eyedress, Aaron Frazer, and Blu DeTiger. When you're working with other artists you just gotta cross your fingers and hope that the songs actually get released. 

I've been working on so many cool projects behind the scenes and a lot of them are finally coming out. It's an exciting new frontier for me.  I have so many artists on my dream list to work with. Rosalía, if you're reading this, call me.

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GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016
Kendrick Lamar

Photo: Jeff Kravitz/FilmMagic

video

GRAMMY Rewind: Kendrick Lamar Honors Hip-Hop's Greats While Accepting Best Rap Album GRAMMY For 'To Pimp a Butterfly' In 2016

Upon winning the GRAMMY for Best Rap Album for 'To Pimp a Butterfly,' Kendrick Lamar thanked those that helped him get to the stage, and the artists that blazed the trail for him.

GRAMMYs/Oct 13, 2023 - 06:01 pm

Updated Friday Oct. 13, 2023 to include info about Kendrick Lamar's most recent GRAMMY wins, as of the 2023 GRAMMYs.

A GRAMMY veteran these days, Kendrick Lamar has won 17 GRAMMYs and has received 47 GRAMMY nominations overall. A sizable chunk of his trophies came from the 58th annual GRAMMY Awards in 2016, when he walked away with five — including his first-ever win in the Best Rap Album category.

This installment of GRAMMY Rewind turns back the clock to 2016, revisiting Lamar's acceptance speech upon winning Best Rap Album for To Pimp A Butterfly. Though Lamar was alone on stage, he made it clear that he wouldn't be at the top of his game without the help of a broad support system. 

"First off, all glory to God, that's for sure," he said, kicking off a speech that went on to thank his parents, who he described as his "those who gave me the responsibility of knowing, of accepting the good with the bad."

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He also extended his love and gratitude to his fiancée, Whitney Alford, and shouted out his Top Dawg Entertainment labelmates. Lamar specifically praised Top Dawg's CEO, Anthony Tiffith, for finding and developing raw talent that might not otherwise get the chance to pursue their musical dreams.

"We'd never forget that: Taking these kids out of the projects, out of Compton, and putting them right here on this stage, to be the best that they can be," Lamar — a Compton native himself — continued, leading into an impassioned conclusion spotlighting some of the cornerstone rap albums that came before To Pimp a Butterfly.

"Hip-hop. Ice Cube. This is for hip-hop," he said. "This is for Snoop Dogg, Doggystyle. This is for Illmatic, this is for Nas. We will live forever. Believe that."

To Pimp a Butterfly singles "Alright" and "These Walls" earned Lamar three more GRAMMYs that night, the former winning Best Rap Performance and Best Rap Song and the latter taking Best Rap/Sung Collaboration (the song features Bilal, Anna Wise and Thundercat). He also won Best Music Video for the remix of Taylor Swift's "Bad Blood." 

Lamar has since won Best Rap Album two more times, taking home the golden gramophone in 2018 for his blockbuster LP DAMN., and in 2023 for his bold fifth album, Mr. Morale & the Big Steppers.

Watch Lamar's full acceptance speech above, and check back at GRAMMY.com every Friday for more GRAMMY Rewind episodes. 

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A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea
Franc Moody

Photo: Rachel Kupfer 

list

A Guide To Modern Funk For The Dance Floor: L'Imperatrice, Shiro Schwarz, Franc Moody, Say She She & Moniquea

James Brown changed the sound of popular music when he found the power of the one and unleashed the funk with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag." Today, funk lives on in many forms, including these exciting bands from across the world.

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:23 pm

It's rare that a genre can be traced back to a single artist or group, but for funk, that was James Brown. The Godfather of Soul coined the phrase and style of playing known as "on the one," where the first downbeat is emphasized, instead of the typical second and fourth beats in pop, soul and other styles. As David Cheal eloquently explains, playing on the one "left space for phrases and riffs, often syncopated around the beat, creating an intricate, interlocking grid which could go on and on." You know a funky bassline when you hear it; its fat chords beg your body to get up and groove.

Brown's 1965 classic, "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," became one of the first funk hits, and has been endlessly sampled and covered over the years, along with his other groovy tracks. Of course, many other funk acts followed in the '60s, and the genre thrived in the '70s and '80s as the disco craze came and went, and the originators of hip-hop and house music created new music from funk and disco's strong, flexible bones built for dancing.

Legendary funk bassist Bootsy Collins learned the power of the one from playing in Brown's band, and brought it to George Clinton, who created P-funk, an expansive, Afrofuturistic, psychedelic exploration of funk with his various bands and projects, including Parliament-Funkadelic. Both Collins and Clinton remain active and funkin', and have offered their timeless grooves to collabs with younger artists, including Kali Uchis, Silk Sonic, and Omar Apollo; and Kendrick Lamar, Flying Lotus, and Thundercat, respectively.

In the 1980s, electro-funk was born when artists like Afrika Bambaataa, Man Parrish, and Egyptian Lover began making futuristic beats with the Roland TR-808 drum machine — often with robotic vocals distorted through a talk box. A key distinguishing factor of electro-funk is a de-emphasis on vocals, with more phrases than choruses and verses. The sound influenced contemporaneous hip-hop, funk and electronica, along with acts around the globe, while current acts like Chromeo, DJ Stingray, and even Egyptian Lover himself keep electro-funk alive and well.

Today, funk lives in many places, with its heavy bass and syncopated grooves finding way into many nooks and crannies of music. There's nu-disco and boogie funk, nodding back to disco bands with soaring vocals and dance floor-designed instrumentation. G-funk continues to influence Los Angeles hip-hop, with innovative artists like Dam-Funk and Channel Tres bringing the funk and G-funk, into electro territory. Funk and disco-centered '70s revival is definitely having a moment, with acts like Ghost Funk Orchestra and Parcels, while its sparkly sprinklings can be heard in pop from Dua Lipa, Doja Cat, and, in full "Soul Train" character, Silk Sonic. There are also acts making dreamy, atmospheric music with a solid dose of funk, such as Khruangbin’s global sonic collage.

There are many bands that play heavily with funk, creating lush grooves designed to get you moving. Read on for a taste of five current modern funk and nu-disco artists making band-led uptempo funk built for the dance floor. Be sure to press play on the Spotify playlist above, and check out GRAMMY.com's playlist on Apple Music, Amazon Music and Pandora.

Say She She

Aptly self-described as "discodelic soul," Brooklyn-based seven-piece Say She She make dreamy, operatic funk, led by singer-songwriters Nya Gazelle Brown, Piya Malik and Sabrina Mileo Cunningham. Their '70s girl group-inspired vocal harmonies echo, sooth and enchant as they cover poignant topics with feminist flair.

While they’ve been active in the New York scene for a few years, they’ve gained wider acclaim for the irresistible music they began releasing this year, including their debut album, Prism. Their 2022 debut single "Forget Me Not" is an ode to ground-breaking New York art collective Guerilla Girls, and "Norma" is their protest anthem in response to the news that Roe vs. Wade could be (and was) overturned. The band name is a nod to funk legend Nile Rodgers, from the "Le freak, c'est chi" exclamation in Chic's legendary tune "Le Freak."

Moniquea

Moniquea's unique voice oozes confidence, yet invites you in to dance with her to the super funky boogie rhythms. The Pasadena, California artist was raised on funk music; her mom was in a cover band that would play classics like Aretha Franklin’s "Get It Right" and Gladys Knight’s "Love Overboard." Moniquea released her first boogie funk track at 20 and, in 2011, met local producer XL Middelton — a bonafide purveyor of funk. She's been a star artist on his MoFunk Records ever since, and they've collabed on countless tracks, channeling West Coast energy with a heavy dose of G-funk, sunny lyrics and upbeat, roller disco-ready rhythms.

Her latest release is an upbeat nod to classic West Coast funk, produced by Middleton, and follows her February 2022 groovy, collab-filled album, On Repeat.

Shiro Schwarz

Shiro Schwarz is a Mexico City-based duo, consisting of Pammela Rojas and Rafael Marfil, who helped establish a modern funk scene in the richly creative Mexican metropolis. On "Electrify" — originally released in 2016 on Fat Beats Records and reissued in 2021 by MoFunk — Shiro Schwarz's vocals playfully contrast each other, floating over an insistent, upbeat bassline and an '80s throwback electro-funk rhythm with synth flourishes.

Their music manages to be both nostalgic and futuristic — and impossible to sit still to. 2021 single "Be Kind" is sweet, mellow and groovy, perfect chic lounge funk. Shiro Schwarz’s latest track, the joyfully nostalgic "Hey DJ," is a collab with funkstress Saucy Lady and U-Key.

L'Impératrice

L'Impératrice (the empress in French) are a six-piece Parisian group serving an infectiously joyful blend of French pop, nu-disco, funk and psychedelia. Flore Benguigui's vocals are light and dreamy, yet commanding of your attention, while lyrics have a feminist touch.

During their energetic live sets, L'Impératrice members Charles de Boisseguin and Hagni Gwon (keys), David Gaugué (bass), Achille Trocellier (guitar), and Tom Daveau (drums) deliver extended instrumental jam sessions to expand and connect their music. Gaugué emphasizes the thick funky bass, and Benguigui jumps around the stage while sounding like an angel. L’Impératrice’s latest album, 2021’s Tako Tsubo, is a sunny, playful French disco journey.

Franc Moody

Franc Moody's bio fittingly describes their music as "a soul funk and cosmic disco sound." The London outfit was birthed by friends Ned Franc and Jon Moody in the early 2010s, when they were living together and throwing parties in North London's warehouse scene. In 2017, the group grew to six members, including singer and multi-instrumentalist Amber-Simone.

Their music feels at home with other electro-pop bands like fellow Londoners Jungle and Aussie act Parcels. While much of it is upbeat and euphoric, Franc Moody also dips into the more chilled, dreamy realm, such as the vibey, sultry title track from their recently released Into the Ether.

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Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage
Billy Idol

Photo: Steven Sebring

interview

Living Legends: Billy Idol On Survival, Revival & Breaking Out Of The Cage

"One foot in the past and one foot into the future," Billy Idol says, describing his decade-spanning career in rock. "We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol."

GRAMMYs/Nov 25, 2022 - 04:19 pm

Living Legends is a series that spotlights icons in music still going strong today. This week, GRAMMY.com spoke with Billy Idol about his latest EP,  Cage, and continuing to rock through decades of changing tastes.

Billy Idol is a true rock 'n' roll survivor who has persevered through cultural shifts and personal struggles. While some may think of Idol solely for "Rebel Yell" and "White Wedding," the singer's musical influences span genres and many of his tunes are less turbo-charged than his '80s hits would belie.  

Idol first made a splash in the latter half of the '70s with the British punk band Generation X. In the '80s, he went on to a solo career combining rock, pop, and punk into a distinct sound that transformed him and his musical partner, guitarist Steve Stevens, into icons. They have racked up multiple GRAMMY nominations, in addition to one gold, one double platinum, and four platinum albums thanks to hits like "Cradle Of Love," "Flesh For Fantasy," and "Eyes Without A Face." 

But, unlike many legacy artists, Idol is anything but a relic. Billy continues to produce vital Idol music by collaborating with producers and songwriters — including Miley Cyrus — who share his forward-thinking vision. He will play a five-show Vegas residency in November, and filmmaker Jonas Akerlund is working on a documentary about Idol’s life. 

His latest release is Cage, the second in a trilogy of annual four-song EPs. The title track is a classic Billy Idol banger expressing the desire to free himself from personal constraints and live a better life. Other tracks on Cage incorporate metallic riffing and funky R&B grooves. 

Idol continues to reckon with his demons — they both grappled with addiction during the '80s — and the singer is open about those struggles on the record and the page. (Idol's 2014 memoir Dancing With Myself, details a 1990 motorcycle accident that nearly claimed a leg, and how becoming a father steered him to reject hard drugs. "Bitter Taste," from his last EP, The Roadside, reflects on surviving the accident.)

Although Idol and Stevens split in the late '80s — the skilled guitarist fronted Steve Stevens & The Atomic Playboys, and collaborated with Michael Jackson, Rick Ocasek, Vince Neil, and Harold Faltermeyer (on the GRAMMY-winning "Top Gun Anthem") —  their common history and shared musical bond has been undeniable. The duo reunited in 2001 for an episode of "VH1 Storytellers" and have been back in the saddle for two decades. Their union remains one of the strongest collaborations in rock 'n roll history.

While there is recognizable personnel and a distinguishable sound throughout a lot of his work, Billy Idol has always pushed himself to try different things. Idol discusses his musical journey, his desire to constantly move forward, and the strong connection that he shares with Stevens. 

Steve has said that you like to mix up a variety of styles, yet everyone assumes you're the "Rebel Yell"/"White Wedding" guy. But if they really listen to your catalog, it's vastly different.

Yeah, that's right. With someone like Steve Stevens, and then back in the day Keith Forsey producing... [Before that] Generation X actually did move around inside punk rock. We didn't stay doing just the Ramones two-minute music. We actually did a seven-minute song. [Laughs]. We did always mix things up. 

Then when I got into my solo career, that was the fun of it. With someone like Steve, I knew what he could do. I could see whatever we needed to do, we could nail it. The world was my oyster musically. 

"Cage" is a classic-sounding Billy Idol rocker, then "Running From The Ghost" is almost metal, like what the Devil's Playground album was like back in the mid-2000s. "Miss Nobody" comes out of nowhere with this pop/R&B flavor. What inspired that?

We really hadn't done anything like that since something like "Flesh For Fantasy" [which] had a bit of an R&B thing about it. Back in the early days of Billy Idol, "Hot In The City" and "Mony Mony" had girls [singing] on the backgrounds. 

We always had a bit of R&B really, so it was actually fun to revisit that. We just hadn't done anything really quite like that for a long time. That was one of the reasons to work with someone like Sam Hollander [for the song "Rita Hayworth"] on The Roadside. We knew we could go [with him] into an R&B world, and he's a great songwriter and producer. That's the fun of music really, trying out these things and seeing if you can make them stick. 

I listen to new music by veteran artists and debate that with some people. I'm sure you have those fans that want their nostalgia, and then there are some people who will embrace the newer stuff. Do you find it’s a challenge to reach people with new songs?

Obviously, what we're looking for is, how do we somehow have one foot in the past and one foot into the future? We’ve got the best of all possible worlds because that has been the modus operandi of Billy Idol. 

You want to do things that are true to you, and you don't just want to try and do things that you're seeing there in the charts today. I think that we're achieving it with things like "Running From The Ghost" and "Cage" on this new EP. I think we’re managing to do both in a way. 

**Obviously, "Running From The Ghost" is about addiction, all the stuff that you went through, and in "Cage" you’re talking about  freeing yourself from a lot of personal shackles. Was there any one moment in your life that made you really thought I have to not let this weigh me down anymore?**

I mean, things like the motorcycle accident I had, that was a bit of a wake up call way back. It was 32 years ago. But there were things like that, years ago, that gradually made me think about what I was doing with my life. I didn't want to ruin it, really. I didn't want to throw it away, and it made [me] be less cavalier. 

I had to say to myself, about the drugs and stuff, that I've been there and I've done it. There’s no point in carrying on doing it. You couldn't get any higher. You didn't want to throw your life away casually, and I was close to doing that. It took me a bit of time, but then gradually I was able to get control of myself to a certain extent [with] drugs and everything. And I think Steve's done the same thing. We're on a similar path really, which has been great because we're in the same boat in terms of lyrics and stuff. 

So a lot of things like that were wake up calls. Even having grandchildren and just watching my daughter enlarging her family and everything; it just makes you really positive about things and want to show a positive side to how you're feeling, about where you're going. We've lived with the demons so long, we've found a way to live with them. We found a way to be at peace with our demons, in a way. Maybe not completely, but certainly to where we’re enjoying what we do and excited about it.

[When writing] "Running From The Ghost" it was easy to go, what was the ghost for us? At one point, we were very drug addicted in the '80s. And Steve in particular is super sober [now]. I mean, I still vape pot and stuff. I don’t know how he’s doing it, but it’s incredible. All I want to be able to do is have a couple of glasses of wine at a restaurant or something. I can do that now.

I think working with people that are super talented, you just feel confident. That is a big reason why you open up and express yourself more because you feel comfortable with what's around you.

Did you watch Danny Boyle's recent Sex Pistols mini-series?

I did, yes.

You had a couple of cameos; well, an actor who portrayed you did. How did you react to it? How accurate do you think it was in portraying that particular time period?

I love Jonesy’s book, I thought his book was incredible. It's probably one of the best bio books really. It was incredible and so open. I was looking forward to that a lot.

It was as if [the show] kind of stayed with Steve [Jones’ memoir] about halfway through, and then departed from it. [John] Lydon, for instance, was never someone I ever saw acting out; he's more like that today. I never saw him do something like jump up in the room and run around going crazy. The only time I saw him ever do that was when they signed the recording deal with Virgin in front of Buckingham Palace. Whereas Sid Vicious was always acting out; he was always doing something in a horrible way or shouting at someone. I don't remember John being like that. I remember him being much more introverted.

But then I watched interviews with some of the actors about coming to grips with the parts they were playing. And they were saying, we knew punk rock happened but just didn't know any of the details. So I thought well, there you go. If ["Pistol" is]  informing a lot of people who wouldn't know anything about punk rock, maybe that's what's good about it.

Maybe down the road John Lydon will get the chance to do John's version of the Pistols story. Maybe someone will go a lot deeper into it and it won't be so surface. But maybe you needed this just to get people back in the flow.

We had punk and metal over here in the States, but it feels like England it was legitimately more dangerous. British society was much more rigid.

It never went [as] mega in America. It went big in England. It exploded when the Pistols did that interview with [TV host Bill] Grundy, that lorry truck driver put his boot through his own TV, and all the national papers had "the filth and the fury" [headlines].

We went from being unknown to being known overnight. We waited a year, Generation X. We even told them [record labels] no for nine months to a year. Every record company wanted their own punk rock group. So it went really mega in England, and it affected the whole country – the style, the fashions, everything. I mean, the Ramones were massive in England. Devo had a No. 1 song [in England] with "Satisfaction" in '77. Actually, Devo was as big as or bigger than the Pistols.

You were ahead of the pop-punk thing that happened in the late '90s, and a lot of it became tongue-in-cheek by then. It didn't have the same sense of rebelliousness as the original movement. It was more pop.

It had become a style. There was a famous book in England called Revolt Into Style — and that's what had happened, a revolt that turned into style which then they were able to duplicate in their own way. Even recently, Billie Joe [Armstrong] did his own version of "Gimme Some Truth," the Lennon song we covered way back in 1977.

When we initially were making [punk] music, it hadn't become accepted yet. It was still dangerous and turned into a style that people were used to. We were still breaking barriers.

You have a band called Generation Sex with Steve Jones and Paul Cook. I assume you all have an easier time playing Pistols and Gen X songs together now and not worrying about getting spit on like back in the '70s?

Yeah, definitely. When I got to America I told the group I was putting it together, "No one spits at the audience."

We had five years of being spat on [in the UK], and it was revolting. And they spat at you if they liked you. If they didn't like it they smashed your gear up. One night, I remember I saw blood on my T-shirt, and I think Joe Strummer got meningitis when spit went in his mouth.

You had to go through a lot to become successful, it wasn't like you just kind of got up there and did a couple of gigs. I don't think some young rock bands really get that today.

With punk going so mega in England, we definitely got a leg up. We still had a lot of work to get where we got to, and rightly so because you find out that you need to do that. A lot of groups in the old days would be together three to five years before they ever made a record, and that time is really important. In a way, what was great about punk rock for me was it was very much a learning period. I really learned a lot [about] recording music and being in a group and even writing songs.

Then when I came to America, it was a flow, really. I also really started to know what I wanted Billy Idol to be. It took me a little bit, but I kind of knew what I wanted Billy Idol to be. And even that took a while to let it marinate.

You and Miley Cyrus have developed a good working relationship in the last several years. How do you think her fans have responded to you, and your fans have responded to her?

I think they're into it. It's more the record company that she had didn't really get "Night Crawling"— it was one of the best songs on Plastic Hearts, and I don't think they understood that. They wanted to go with Dua Lipa, they wanted to go with the modern, young acts, and I don't think they realized that that song was resonating with her fans. Which is a shame really because, with Andrew Watt producing, it's a hit song.

But at the same time, I enjoyed doing it. It came out really good and it's very Billy Idol. In fact, I think it’s more Billy Idol than Miley Cyrus. I think it shows you where Andrew Watt was. He was excited about doing a Billy Idol track. She's fun to work with. She’s a really great person and she works at her singing — I watched her rehearsing for the Super Bowl performance she gave. She rehearsed all Saturday morning, all Saturday afternoon, and Sunday morning and it was that afternoon. I have to admire her fortitude. She really cares.

I remember when you went on "Viva La Bamback in 2005 and decided to give Bam Margera’s Lamborghini a new sunroof by taking a power saw to it. Did he own that car? Was that a rental?

I think it was his car.

Did he get over it later on?

He loved it. [Laughs] He’s got a wacky sense of humor. He’s fantastic, actually. I’m really sorry to see what he's been going through just lately. He's going through a lot, and I wish him the best. He's a fantastic person, and it's a shame that he's struggling so much with his addictions. I know what it's like. It's not easy.

Musically, what is the synergy like with you guys during the past 10 years, doing Kings and Queens of the Underground and this new stuff? What is your working relationship like now in this more sober, older, mature version of you two as opposed to what it was like back in the '80s?

In lots of ways it’s not so different because we always wrote the songs together, we always talked about what we're going to do together. It was just that we were getting high at the same time.We're just not getting [that way now] but we're doing all the same things.

We're still talking about things, still [planning] things:What are we going to do next? How are we going to find new people to work with? We want to find new producers. Let's be a little bit more timely about putting stuff out.That part of our relationship is the same, you know what I mean? That never got affected. We just happened to be overloading in the '80s.

The relationship’s… matured and it's carrying on being fruitful, and I think that's pretty amazing. Really, most people don't get to this place. Usually, they hate each other by now. [Laughs] We also give each other space. We're not stopping each other doing things outside of what we’re working on together. All of that enables us to carry on working together. I love and admire him. I respect him. He's been fantastic. I mean, just standing there on stage with him is always a treat. And he’s got an immensely great sense of humor. I think that's another reason why we can hang together after all this time because we've got the sense of humor to enable us to go forward.

There's a lot of fan reaction videos online, and I noticed a lot of younger women like "Rebel Yell" because, unlike a lot of other '80s alpha male rock tunes, you're talking about satisfying your lover.

It was about my girlfriend at the time, Perri Lister. It was about how great I thought she was, how much I was in love with her, and how great women are, how powerful they are.

It was a bit of a feminist anthem in a weird way. It was all about how relationships can free you and add a lot to your life. It was a cry of love, nothing to do with the Civil War or anything like that. Perri was a big part of my life, a big part of being Billy Idol. I wanted to write about it. I'm glad that's the effect.

Is there something you hope people get out of the songs you've been doing over the last 10 years? Do you find yourself putting out a message that keeps repeating?

Well, I suppose, if anything, is that you can come to terms with your life, you can keep a hold of it. You can work your dreams into reality in a way and, look, a million years later, still be enjoying it.

The only reason I'm singing about getting out of the cage is because I kicked out of the cage years ago. I joined Generation X when I said to my parents, "I'm leaving university, and I'm joining a punk rock group." And they didn't even know what a punk rock group was. Years ago, I’d write things for myself that put me on this path, so that maybe in 2022 I could sing something like "Cage" and be owning this territory and really having a good time. This is the life I wanted.

The original UK punk movement challenged societal norms. Despite all the craziness going on throughout the world, it seems like a lot of modern rock bands are afraid to do what you guys were doing. Do you think we'll see a shift in that?

Yeah.  Art usually reacts to things, so I would think eventually there will be a massive reaction to the pop music that’s taken over — the middle of the road music, and then this kind of right wing politics. There will be a massive reaction if there's not already one. I don’t know where it will come from exactly. You never know who's gonna do [it].

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